Who's the bigger beast? Helpless Lion killed by Tory Party UK Donor

Einhard

Greentopia wrote: »

What a brave 'hunter'. Asshole :mad:.
Going off to the Wicklow hills on wild game hunting expeditions to bag a deer... sorry is this 1930 or 2011?!

I edited your post slightly to make a point. Do you hate Irish hunters too?

Little Miss Lady wrote: »

Hunting any animal for sport is one of the scummiest things a human can do!
Most of these animals have done absolutely nothing to warrant being murdered.
Makes me Sick..

They're not murdered. Seriously, look up the definition of murder. It's amazing but people are managing to out-sensationalise the Sun!

J. Marston

"All the animals I hunt are wild beasts. And I have felt threatened by them at times.

Reminds of Jimbo from South Park. ''It's comin' right for us!''

Little Miss Lady

Einhard wrote: »

They're not murdered. Seriously, look up the definition of murder. It's amazing but people are managing to out-sensationalise the Sun!

Well what would you call setting out to deliberately kill something..
Obviously a hunting fan with no conscience for taking the life of something that you've no right to!!!

take everything

Probably reading too much into it but something about that thread title strikes me as rhetorical.
Is this for a quiz OP?

The Davestator

For all the outraged posters, I have a question. Do you feel the same hatred when you see someone fishing? It's the same, hunting and killing a wild animal for sport.

Little Miss Lady

The Davestator wrote: »

For all the outraged posters, I have a question. Do you feel the same hatred when you see someone fishing? It's the same, hunting and killing a wild animal for sport.

Yes I don't think that's fair either tbh.
Something doesn't sit right with me when a person feels the need to take the life of an animal just for fun..

LondonIrish90

El Weirdo wrote: »

Well, to be fair,



That's a bit of a given, really.

Thats quite offensive. You have basically suggested that because he is a conservative he is a racist.

Einhard

Little Miss Lady wrote: »

Well what would you call setting out to deliberately kill something..
Obviously a hunting fan with no conscience for taking the life of something that you've no right to!!!

Why don't they have the right? Where's it stated that no such right exists? Are you a vegan? If not, then consistency demands, that you acknowledge your lack of conscience too.

Greentopia

Einhard wrote: »

Originally Posted by Greentopia
What a brave 'hunter'. Asshole .
Going off to the Wicklow hills on wild game hunting expeditions to bag a deer... sorry is this 1930 or 2011?!

What's your point in changing my quote? I don't equate hunting deer to killing a lion. You want me to fall into your trap of saying OMG THAT'S JUST AS BAD! and that I'm against all hunting? no, sorry, I'm not.

Deer are game, the same as pheasant, rabbit etc.. I don't have a problem in killing them as long as the numbers killed are sustainable and don't cause the species to become endangered, and also if they're killed only for food.

That Tory asshole is trophy hunting an animal that is not food and who's numbers have decreaded enormously since the early 20th century because of hunting and poaching. Big difference.

Liam Byrne

The Davestator wrote: »

For all the outraged posters, I have a question. Do you feel the same hatred when you see someone fishing? It's the same, hunting and killing a wild animal for sport.

Are you suggesting that he's going to eat the lion for dinner with chips ?

Because otherwise your comparison is well off the mark.

J. Marston

The Davestator wrote: »

For all the outraged posters, I have a question. Do you feel the same hatred when you see someone fishing? It's the same, hunting and killing a wild animal for sport.

Completely different, fish don't have cute cubs.

El Weirdo

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Thats quite offensive. You have basically suggested that because he is a conservative he is a racist.

Meh.

Cupcake_Crisis

That man is a scumbag with more money than sense. People like that that infuriate me, inflicting pain for fun, there's something lacking in his personality. :mad:

Einhard

Greentopia wrote: »

What's your point in changing my quote? I don't equate hunting deer to killing a lion. You want me to fall into your trap of saying OMG THAT'S JUST AS BAD! and that I'm against all hunting? no, sorry, I'm not.


Deer are game, the same as pheasant, rabbit etc.. I don't have a problem in killing them as long as the numbers killed are sustainable and don't cause the species to become endangered, and also if they're killed only for food.

As was pointed out earlier in the thread, these reserves are strictly managed and controlled so that the animals are always kept at sustainable levels. It's not at all in the companies interests that the animals become endangered, so that really doesn't come into it.

Also, the majority of hunters in Ireland do so not for food, but for sport. The fact that they might bring home some dinner is an added bonus, but it doesn;t detract from the fact that they hunt for the trill of it. Exactly as this Tory does.

That Tory asshole is trophy hunting an animal that is not food and who's numbers have decreaded enormously since the early 20th century because of hunting and poaching. Big difference.

It could be, and is, argued, that controlled hunting is one of the best ways of protecting endangered species, and ensuring their survival. At the least it gives some jobs to locals, and gives them a stake in the preservation of the animals, which are integral to the businesses involved.

Also- would you be ok with it if he actually ate the lion after? i seriously doubt it. Then you'd be condemning for eating such a magnificent creature!

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Are you suggesting that he's going to eat the lion for dinner with chips ?

Because otherwise your comparison is well off the mark.

The point of fishing, for most anglers, isn't the procurement of food, but the act of fishing itself. They enjoy it. The food is a perk. So the comparison is entirely valid.

Logical Fallacy

Einhard wrote: »

It could be, and is, argued, that controlled hunting is one of the best ways of protecting endangered species, and ensuring their survival. At the least it gives some jobs to locals, and gives them a stake in the preservation of the animals, which are integral to the businesses involved.

I'm not sure i buy the first line at all...i thought that when something was endangered the hunting of it was completely prohibited, assorted agencies list it as Endangered and handling products from the animal in any way becomes a crime?

I also thought that fees from all legal hunting in an area go towards protecting any endangered species within that area...but i am reasonable certain that actually hunting endangered species is a no go?

Einhard

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I'm not sure i buy the first line at all...i thought that when something was endangered the hunting of it was completely prohibited, assorted agencies list it as Endangered and handling products from the animal in any way becomes a crime?

I also thought that fees from all legal hunting in an area go towards protecting any endangered species within that area...but i am reasonable certain that actually hunting endangered species is a no go?

I don't think so. You may be right, but I've never heard of any statute that automatically declares a species off limits once they are listed as endangered. Also, one has to take into account that a species which may be endangered globally, may not have tat status on a local or regional level.

Greentopia

Einhard wrote: »

As was pointed out earlier in the thread, these reserves are strictly managed and controlled so that the animals are always kept at sustainable levels. It's not at all in the companies interests that the animals become endangered, so that really doesn't come into it.

I was talking about the population as a whole. I know there are reserves that manage and control their populations of large animals for companies like that so that rich entitled guys like that Tory pig can pay large amounts of money to inflate their egos and make themselves feel like 'real men' by going to these places to turkey shoot animals that are tracked for them by the locals so they only have to point their high powered telescopic rifles at them and pull the trigger (where's the bravery and sport in that anyway?) talk about the odds being massively in his favour!

I'd like to see how well he would fare if he was dropped into one of these game reserves on his own with only a single shot rifle (no scope), a compass, map, tent and sufficient provisions and told "right don't come back until you've killed a lion". Then we'd see how brave he is.

Einhard wrote: »

Also, the majority of hunters in Ireland do so not for food, but for sport. The fact that they might bring home some dinner is an added bonus, but it doesn;t detract from the fact that they hunt for the trill of it. Exactly as this Tory does.

I don't know how many kill for food and how many kill for the 'sport' of it in this country. Obviously you do?

My personal belief is that if we don't kill game animals, birds, or indeed any animals etc for food for survival or warmth (I'm not talking about rich people buying mink coats for fashion!) then we don't have the right to kill them.

I believe all non-human species have an inherant value, regardless of their sentience and that nature is not there simply to serve us.

We're only one species among many, part of an ecosystem and to kill something when you don't have the intention of consuming is both wasteful and immoral I believe.
If you're going to kill something at least honour the life of the animal by using it to feed or clothe yourself. I think to hunt just for 'sport' debases us as a species.

It is taking more than we need and that (in part at least, I know there are other reasons) has led to the decimation of countless species on this planet; and we do so at our own peril as we are all inter-connected and don't even understand yet how intriciately the web of life is and how our actions can adversely affect not just other species but our own as well.

However as I've stated I don't have a problem with the sustainable killing of certain animals or birds for food as people have done since hunter-gatherer times. And indeed some of these animals can be classed as introduced pests and vermin to farmers and gardeners like rabbits whose numbers have to be kept under control.

Einhard wrote: »

It could be, and is, argued, that controlled hunting is one of the best ways of protecting endangered species, and ensuring their survival. At the least it gives some jobs to locals, and gives them a stake in the preservation of the animals, which are integral to the businesses involved.

Yes that's the argument that's often made for those in favour of such controlled hunting. There are opposing arguments that state that these animals are worth more to the local communities from eco-tourism than hunting. Locals would also have a stake in protecting and preserving animals if they had jobs in the tourist industry in such a scenario.
I found an interesting article here about it the pros and cons of the argument. I'm not convinced such 'canned hunting' really does benefit local communities more than eco tourism projects would, and I find it an immoral practice anyway.

Einhard wrote: »

Also- would you be ok with it if he actually ate the lion after? i seriously doubt it. Then you'd be condemning for eating such a magnificent creature!

Now you're really reaching. We don't eat lions and he doesn't need to travel thousands of miles to an African game reserve to shoot one to have a meal even if he did, so the argument is absurd.
The only people with any right to kill them would be local indigenous people if they were to use them for food, but they don't.

Einhard wrote: »

The point of fishing, for most anglers, isn't the procurement of food, but the act of fishing itself. They enjoy it. The food is a perk. So the comparison is entirely valid.

The difference is if an angler practices catch and release the fish is allowed to swim back in the water to continue it's existence and it's not harmed. It's life is not ended.
I don't have a problem with killing and eating fish for the reasons I've given.

That's all I really have to say about it.

kildare.17hmr

alot of people here have some crazy views, hunters sadistic murderers?? Evil?? Cop on to yourselves.<br />
<br />
I hunt, why because i enjoy it, simple. I eat alot of what i shoot be it rabbit, wood pigeon, duck ect and my dogs eat the first two also. If i shoot a fox it is left and the birds eat it, same with crows, magpies. im not gonna try convince anyone to change their views on hunting but seriously some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous. one post said that hunters enjoy inflicting pain on animals? What an ignorant, uneducated statement to make. Most hunters aim to take down an animal with one clean quick shot, most of the time the animal does not even hear the bang and is dead before it hits the ground, hunting is actually one of the most human and effective ways of controlling numbers. <br />
<br />
Was this guy wrong to do what he did? Hell no, id love to try it myself one day if i ever had the money. Them types of hunts are dangerous no matter what people think and alot of the time they are very close to the animals they are shooting and some people have been killed. Its exciting and its life. Hunting is here to stay and as long as its done responsibly we should not be called "murderers” by people who quite frankly have no idea what they are talking about

kildare.17hmr

mods i posted but some how i deleted thepost when editing it, can one of you put my post back up if its possible?

ItsAWindUp

What an evil man he must be, how the hell can he not think that there's anything wrong with killing a beautiful creature like that? I'm sure that he'll have a great time telling all his millionaire friends about how he slaughtered this animal, shot cowardly from a distance. People like him make me sick, and if he went on another one of these hunting trips and was killed by a wild animal I would feel not one shred of sympathy for him. In fact, it would nearly be a justice of sorts.

PK2008

A real life Mr. Burns

Irish_Elect_Eng

While I do not agree with hunting as a pursuit, there is the case to be argued that the only way that many species existence will be protected in future is through the finance provide by the hunters.

Governments and animal rights groups are not providing the funding to protect many species. AFAIK a very large portion of the conservation budget in the USA is actually provided by commercial hunting operations, licenses and hunting permits.

This issue is not a simple one and the larger picture, however distasteful to some must be considered for the long-term security of some species over the rights of individual animals.

For example if letting hunters kill 10% of any given species in a single year protected the other 90% by financing the conservation of that species what would you think?

kildare.17hmr

alot of gun clubs and hunters in ireland do loads of work that benefits local wildlife, they breed phesants and duck for hunting but also dont shoot all of them and so local populations grow, they maintain habitats and feed birds through harsh winters when some birds would die of starvation. Some Lads from the hunting forum including myself last year put out food for the rabbits and even foxes last year during the worst of the snow and alot stopped shooting during this time to give the animals a chance, do these sound like the actions of evil people?

They also keep vermin like mink and feral cats under control which if left unchecked in an area would kill pretty much everything they could get their paws on

Little Miss Lady

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

alot of gun clubs and hunters in ireland do loads of work that benefits local wildlife, they breed phesants and duck for hunting but also dont shoot all of them and so local populations grow, they maintain habitats and feed birds through harsh winters when some birds would die of starvation. Some Lads from the hunting forum including myself last year put out food for the rabbits and even foxes last year during the worst of the snow and alot stopped shooting during this time to give the animals a chance, do these sound like the actions of evil people?

They also keep vermin like mink and feral cats under control which if left unchecked in an area would kill pretty much everything they could get their paws on

You put forward a good argument but I still for the life of me cannot fathom why anyone would want to harm and kill an innocent animal.
You can argue until the cows come home but to me it's just cold and evil.
Taking the life of something that you have no right to!!

kildare.17hmr

Little Miss Lady wrote: »

You put forward a good argument but I still for the life of me cannot fathom why anyone would want to harm and kill an innocent animal.
You can argue until the cows come home but to me it's just cold and evil.
Taking the life of something that you have no right to!!

ill ask you then what you think about eating meat? Do you think we have no right to kill cows or sheep eat to feed ourselves?

Little Miss Lady

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

ill ask you then what you think about eating meat? Do you think we have no right to kill cows or sheep eat to feed ourselves?

I'm a vegetarian...

But asides from that there is a world of difference between killing animals to eat to stay alive compared to 'just for the fun of it'

The_Thing

What kind of a sick fcuk is he that he can derive pleasure from the pointless killing of such a magnificent animal?

dlofnep

Killing any animal for fun is wrong. There is nothing to discuss.

kildare.17hmr

Little Miss Lady wrote: »

I'm a vegetarian...

But asides from that there is a world of difference between killing animals to eat to stay alive compared to 'just for the fun of it'

i thought you were which is why i asked. I respect your choice to be a veggie but my question was more so about hunting and eating your quarry and not hunting for fun. I am just curious of your thoughts on it

seamus

"Look at me, I can fire a weapon at a creature from 200m away and kill it, I'm such a fncking legend".

Posing beside something you've killed with a gun is just telling the world how much of a coward you are.

Drop the guns and go fight it at 2m using a sword and shield or something, otherwise you're just a spineless pussy.