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Teaching Council

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Pjfogar


    NoelleTh wrote: »
    I sent in my qualifications to be assessed (I did a PGCE in Coleraine) a month ago and I am yet to even get a letter of acknowledgement from the TC that they got my stuff, is this normal?
    It's just worrying because it's a lot of important documents I know it got to them because I sent it be registered post it's silly I know but I just don't like the thoughts of my hard earned PGCE and my other qualifications just lying around some office!

    To be honest, it seems to be hit and miss, dependent on what your request is. I was registering an extra subject a couple of months ago, and I sent them the documentation on a Wednesday. I checked my registration details online the following Monday, and to my surprise it had been updated, and I had my documentation back two days later. I couldn't believe the TC could be a bastion of efficiency until I witnessed it myself!

    On another more contentious note, I paid my subscription back in March or April and paid it online one afternoon, I was amazed to get a letter the following morning with my TC card and certificate thing to say I was a fully paid up member for another year. Less than a 24 hour turnaround. Couldn't believe it.

    I imagine registering for the first time is a more lengthy process, maybe the delay is checking your qualification from Coleraine because you didn't get it in Ireland. It could be any one of a myriad of reasons, given past form though.

    I think the only solution for it is to try to get a job with the clowns. At least then there would be ONE person in there who appreciates the frustrations/anger that 70000 qualified teachers feel. Shower of
    ( please insert as appropriate
    )
    That is all!!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭jonseyblub


    Dionysus wrote: »

    In fact, my objection to the TC is that they are continuing to tolerate a wide range of people who do not hold degrees in subjects to teach those subjects. They should have, long ago, given these people a timeframe within which they had to secure their degrees/the required credits in their respective subjects. That would be fair to the teachers in question, and the students. The TC didn't, and the same unqualified people are still teaching in Irish schools. Why is the TC, and more importantly the Department of Education which pays the salaries, not clamping down on these people and raising the educational standard of teachers in Irish schools? Why is this laziness being tolerated? This particular suggestion is going to piss off many of the regulars here, just as it would piss off many people in the average school staff room. So be it.

    To be fair to the Teaching council on this one point, I'm sure they are receiving serious pressure from the Department not to implement this as most schools today due to the cut-backs are mixing and matching teachers with the subjects being given in the school. It would cost the government a fortune to ensure everybody who teaches say Maths (apparently approx 48% of maths teachers are not qualified to teach it) actually had a qualification in it. It's easier for them to put a Business/Science teacher in to teach it instead.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,388 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Pjfogar wrote: »
    I think the only solution for it is to try to get a job with the clowns. At least then there would be ONE person in there who appreciates the frustrations/anger that 70000 qualified teachers feel. Shower of
    ( please insert as appropriate
    )
    That is all!!!!!

    :eek: No! I suspect that the ineptitude and inertia with which they operate might be osmotic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 967 ✭✭✭highly1111


    I have a few very very serious issues with the teaching council which i will just outline below instead of going into details:

    1) I do not understand why they do not assess all your qualifications at the point of registration - degree, masters, prof qualifications etc. its a money making racket to get more out of you to pay for the assessment qualification

    2) the teaching council changed the criteria for the number of credits required (54) for each subject from their predecessor on NO basis - they have not reassessed courses - nor have they any intention to do so - as confirmed to me by their deputy director. This means that there are degrees out there where their documentation states that you could be qualified for a certain subjects when it is simply NOT possible based on the number of credits available in the degree structure

    3) when the TC assess your degree a civil servant reads through the modules and decides which ones get credits and which ones don't - not a teacher of those subjects, or even a specialist - an adminstrator. (again, confirmed to me by their deputy director)

    4) their documentation is incredibly misleading - as admitted to me by their deputy director - yet, it is still up

    5) the TC has not written to my alma mater university (I can't speak for any others) since their establishment to state that they are changing the criteria of their degrees.

    6) Finally, the TC are (in my solicitors view) in clear breach of discrimation law - I completed my degree prior to their establishment in 2006 - someone who did the exact same degree at the exact same time would be awarded more subjects than me if they had registered with their predecessor than with the TC because the TC have unanimously changed the criteria - it's a black and white situation - you can't change the criteria of something without foundation or basis - there is none

    7) I have had several meetings with the TC and they received my solicitors letter over 2 weeks ago. we have yet to receive a reply

    that is all.

    i have 2 missions in life.

    1 - raise my children to the absolute best of my ability

    2 - bring down this absolute ducking quango


  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭27061986a


    Who regulated the teaching profession before the teaching council arrived. I know on their website there is a list of recognised degrees to teach in post primary education. Who vertified these degrees before the teaching council was established? Was it a case of, anybody with a degree in any subject could teach following the completion of a h-dip?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Dionysus wrote: »

    In fact, my objection to the TC is that they are continuing to tolerate a wide range of people who do not hold degrees in subjects to teach those subjects. They should have, long ago, given these people a timeframe within which they had to secure their degrees/the required credits in their respective subjects. That would be fair to the teachers in question, and the students. The TC didn't, and the same unqualified people are still teaching in Irish schools. Why is the TC, and more importantly the Department of Education which pays the salaries, not clamping down on these people and raising the educational standard of teachers in Irish schools? Why is this laziness being tolerated? This particular suggestion is going to piss off many of the regulars here, just as it would piss off many people in the average school staff room. So be it.


    Your point shows the enormous inarguable hypocrisy of the Dept of Ed and the TC (and Teacher Unions) on the issue in principle.

    Of course, in practice if the problem was tackled and the regulations were rigorously applied, it would imply the unworkable vista of having to employ far more teachers (as so many would be qualified to teach just one subject), many of whom would end up teaching far less than full hours (because they would be able to teach only the subject that they have majored in).

    The Dept of Ed could not contemplate the former because they couldn't afford it, while the Teacher Unions could not contemplate the latter because it would require such a drop in teacher salaries top if it was to be even remotely financially viable.

    That's why it is never highlighted in polite society at the moment at least even if it is stomach-churningly repugnant for unemployed teachers to hear of unqualified people teaching subjects for years while they themselves are practially strip-searched by the TC to prove their credentials.

    It might be a battle for the future but right now when you consider the potential financial implications - notwithstanding the understandable and reasonable gripes of unemployed teachers at the chasm between the theory and practice - it is one of those 'be careful what you wish for' issues for teachers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 967 ✭✭✭highly1111


    Their predecessors were the Registration Council who were based within the dept of Ed (no €90 and did the same job, no doubt with at least half of the current 42 staff of the TC)

    The list on the TC website and on pac.ie which states what degrees can teach what subjects was inherited from the Registration Council and was an unconditional list until the TC
    Introduced their own Subject B criteria - conditions based on no foundation as they did not reassess any of the degree courses or contact at least my university to inform them of any changes (well, their line is that they are trying to improve the quality of teachers) so basically depending on who you register/ed with you may be approved for more or less subjects - I hope this makes sense. Difficult to explain in a concise manner on this forum.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    I'm reading the paper this morning about how there's so many unqualified Maths teachers and I'm left wondering once again....why am I paying the Teaching Council?

    Here I am forking out money to them having been told if I do manage to get a job, I need to be registered with the TC and to do that, I have to be qualified. But then I read about the teachers, and it's not just in Maths but all over, who are unqualified, and I'm wondering how they are working? Are they registered with the TC who have let them retain membership despite not being qualified? Or are they not registered with the TC yet still working despite the fact if I tried to work without them, I'd have a load of blocks thrown in my way?

    EDIT: Something thats been pointed out to me...is it that they are registered but for other subjects?

    Regardless, would it not be very easy to order schools to provide a list of their maths teachers, compare it to the qualifications lists they have and find out a real number that way?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭whiteandlight


    I'm reading the paper this morning about how there's so many unqualified Maths teachers and I'm left wondering once again....why am I paying the Teaching Council?

    Here I am forking out money to them having been told if I do manage to get a job, I need to be registered with the TC and to do that, I have to be qualified. But then I read about the teachers, and it's not just in Maths but all over, who are unqualified, and I'm wondering how they are working? Are they registered with the TC who have let them retain membership despite not being qualified? Or are they not registered with the TC yet still working despite the fact if I tried to work without them, I'd have a load of blocks thrown in my way?

    EDIT: Something thats been pointed out to me...is it that they are registered but for other subjects?

    Regardless, would it not be very easy to order schools to provide a list of their maths teachers, compare it to the qualifications lists they have and find out a real number that way?


    Lol. I emailed Ruairi Quinn with just that question, even suggested it could be done online to lower costs involved. The first reply completely ignored the question, my reply reiterating it has never been resonded to! All they need to do it get every school principal to fill in a form stating who is teaching Maths and their registration number and it'd then take like half an hour to compare!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,388 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    I'm reading the paper this morning about how there's so many unqualified Maths teachers and I'm left wondering once again....why am I paying the Teaching Council?

    Here I am forking out money to them having been told if I do manage to get a job, I need to be registered with the TC and to do that, I have to be qualified. But then I read about the teachers, and it's not just in Maths but all over, who are unqualified, and I'm wondering how they are working? Are they registered with the TC who have let them retain membership despite not being qualified? Or are they not registered with the TC yet still working despite the fact if I tried to work without them, I'd have a load of blocks thrown in my way?

    EDIT: Something thats been pointed out to me...is it that they are registered but for other subjects?

    Regardless, would it not be very easy to order schools to provide a list of their maths teachers, compare it to the qualifications lists they have and find out a real number that way?


    I wouldn't get sucked in by the article to be honest. Of course there are people out there teaching maths who aren't qualified in it. Just as there are for many subjects. The Indo has no concrete statistics but seems to throw figures about like they are fact. Where did that 48% of maths teachers are unqualified come from exactly?

    Questions that are never asked are 'Why do some students insist on taking OL Maths when they clearly are not capable of passing it and should do Foundation Level?' or 'What are you supposed to do with the students who only attend school a couple of days a week, so learn very little but show up to sit the exam (and fail)?' or 'What are you supposed to do about the student who turns up for school but spends most of their time disrupting class and refuses to work (and then fails)?' I accept that this is not all of the 10% of students that fail, but they do make up a portion of them. I'm fairly sure that if I went through the LC failures in my school for this year there would be a number of students who fall into those three categories.

    Here's some more statistics from this years LC (available for viewing on examinations.ie)

    30% of students failed Ordinary Level Classical Studies
    8% failed OL French
    9% failed OL Applied Maths (traditionally an optional extra subject)
    10% failed OL Physics while 12% failed OL Chemistry
    18% failed OL Ag Science
    12% failed OL Biology
    13% failed OL Construction Studies
    15% failed OL Accounting
    9% failed OL Home Economics


    All of the above subjects are choice subjects ( I realise some schools make a science or a language compulsory at Leaving Cert level), so in theory students should be taking subjects they like, are interested in, and are good at. Those statistics would suggest otherwise. I get students in Ag Science every year who have no more interest in my subject but end up there because they don't like any of the other subjects on offer, or they've heard ag science is a doss subject, or their friends are doing so they do it too. I had four fails this year. One, I could not persuade to do OL despite my best efforts and he failed HL miserably (as I suspected he would). The three that failed OL: two had extremely poor attendance (1 day a week, sometimes 2) and the third fell into the category of 'I'm here because I had to pick a subject, don't expect me to work or anything' I did my best with them, but you cannot force them to work no matter how easy you make it to learn. Many ag science teachers would tell you a similar story.

    Maths is a compulsory subject, many are not good at it and given a free choice for LC, many would drop it like a hot potato. I'm not going to get into a debate about whether students should be doing it or not, but all that the statistic of '10% of people failed OL Maths' proves is that 10% of people failed a compulsory subject in which they may have no interest or aptitude. I'm pretty sure I would fail an Art exam if tested, my dog has more artistic talent than I do, but I don't here anyone crying about the lack of creativity of our students, just their perceived lack of mathematical ability.

    Maths is an important subject, no doubt about that but there are thousands of people going through the system who will never have an ability for it (just like I will never have an ability for art), who will never use for more than basic arithmetic once they leave school and they will get on fine.

    Until any of the published articles can provide concrete evidence on how many teachers actively teaching maths in second level schools do not have a maths qualification AND can prove that the students of those teachers are suffering as a result of it, then I'm not going to worry about it.

    That's no disrespect to teachers like yourself Teamshadowclan who is qualified and looking for work.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    No, thats fair enough. I'm not nessecarily saying that "Unqualified teachers are bad teachers." I appreciate many would be brilliant at their job.

    What annoys me more though is

    A. that they are saying they can't figure out how many maths teachers exactly aren't qualified. It would be very, very easy for the government to find out this number and put the media's figures to bed if they wanted. Of course, one can only presume thats because they know the numbers aren't going to be good ones.

    B. I'm having to pay 90€ for obligitory service that, by the looks of things, isn't actually doing the job it's supposed to be doing. If I'm having to pay 90€ to ensure I'm registered to teach what I'm qualified in, I'd expect the rules to apply accross the board. However, I think what I'd prefer is for someone to just say "The TC is failing in doing it's job, as is evident by the fact there are many unqualifed teachers teaching some subjects, and as such it's a joke that teachers, especially ones who are not working, have to pay this fee." I'd rather the fee be abolished; if you're not going to do the job right, then why bother at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,388 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    But (and I hate to defend them) the Teaching Council is doing it's job. They are there to check qualifications and register people as qualified teachers. It's not their job to monitor what goes on in schools. Surely if there are teachers who are not qualified in maths teaching maths questions should be raised as to why principals are timetabling these people to teach maths or Boards of Management of secondary schools/VECs are hiring people for X subject and then allowing them to teach maths when they are not qualified in it?

    I haven't read many but is the issue raised in many Whole School Evaluations where the focus is on the management of the school?

    Why are the Department/VECs not checking how teachers are allocated to subjects, there would probably be a bit of work involved, but basically if a principal had to list of his teachers who are timetabled for maths and state their TC registration number beside them it would be easy for someone to check the state of maths qualifications for active teachers of the subject.

    Of course like everything else in education, if it was acted upon it would cost a fortune as there are probably plenty of permanent teachers in the system with quite a bit of maths in their timetable but they are business and science (usually). So does the Dept allow for more qualified maths teachers to be hired but that possibly lead to schools being over quota, and possibly with some (permanent) teachers on low hours or do they just do what they usually do and ignore it figuring that it costs less to leave it the way it is?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭Toto Wolfcastle


    I was told today about an inspection where the inspector asked for proof of qualifications from the staff. One of the staff members is not qualified to teach the subject, although whether anything will be done or not is a different matter.

    Seems to be a good way of checking up on things tbh.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    I'm not nessecarily disagreeing with you on anything here. What you're saying is logical and makes sense.

    But if it's the TC's job to check qualifications and register people as qualified, why are we paying yearly fees? Surely that would be a one time payment to confirm our qualifications and that would be it. If that's the TC's job, why a regular subscription fee?

    Again, not disagreeing or trying to argue. Just trying to wrap my head round the subscription fee...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,388 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    I'm not nessecarily disagreeing with you on anything here. What you're saying is logical and makes sense.

    But if it's the TC's job to check qualifications and register people as qualified, why are we paying yearly fees? Surely that would be a one time payment to confirm our qualifications and that would be it. If that's the TC's job, why a regular subscription fee?

    Again, not disagreeing or trying to argue. Just trying to wrap my head round the subscription fee...

    Many professional bodies have an association to which they must belong in order to work in their field, e.g. The Irish Medical Council. Initial registration is €245 and annual registration fee is €490. Keeping up membership allows you to ply your trade in this country. That is what is supposed to happen with the TC. Only the Teaching Council Act still hasn't been fully enacted and schools can be a law unto themselves. You won't find (well I hope you won't find) unregistered doctors working in hospitals and practices in Ireland.

    The TC has a lot of problems associated with it. They have been well documented in this forum, but the part of the problem that is causing unemployed teachers the biggest problem (unqualified teachers) is nothing to do with the TC, it's the problem of the Dept of Education, VECs and individual schools.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    carolmon wrote: »
    Printer wrote: »
    I wont even begin to start to tell you about my 6 month duel with the teaching council to have my first class honours degree in International Business with French and Spanish recognised so i can teach languages.

    Anyway, turns out I now have to undertake extra credits so I can teach French (or be recognised as French teacher).

    What if you are unqualified substitute? Do you still get paid as normal for hours you do?

    They are Nazis when it comes to recognition, I'm still "unqualifed" according to them despite a Ist class HDip in Adult/ Community Ed/ Learning Support and TEFL diplomas..............
    Having graduated from four Unis I don't consider myself "unqualifed" and resent the term.

    There has to be a broader approach to what constitutes "qualified".

    It's too narrow nowadays to disregard relevant qualifications and insist on one specific qualification as being the definitive decider.
    It also gives a false perspective to people who don't understand the mysterious workings of the Teaching Council - "unqualified" is really not the correct term and does not mean that all "unqualified" teachers have not got teacher training and degrees.

    "Unrecognised" would be a better description.

    Looks like I've exhausted all routes to full recognition and will have to re apply to do the conventional HDip.
    I presume you do have a degree since you've done a h.dip in adult/community education but other than that, you're not qualified as a secondary school teacher. You are therefore unqualified for the job you're talking about. If you wanted to be a doctor I imagine you'd also be described as unqualified.

    So yes, you should go and do the H.Dip in Education if you want to be a secondary school teacher or accept that you are unqualified to be one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 967 ✭✭✭highly1111


    Many professional bodies have an association to which they must belong in order to work in their field, e.g. The Irish Medical Council. Initial registration is €245 and annual registration fee is €490. Keeping up membership allows you to ply your trade in this country. That is what is supposed to happen with the TC. Only the Teaching Council Act still hasn't been fully enacted and schools can be a law unto themselves. You won't find (well I hope you won't find) unregistered doctors working in hospitals and practices in Ireland.

    The TC has a lot of problems associated with it. They have been well documented in this forum, but the part of the problem that is causing unemployed teachers the biggest problem (unqualified teachers) is nothing to do with the TC, it's the problem of the Dept of Education, VECs and individual schools.


    You're absolutely right with what you say. It is up to the BOM's to ensure that they are only employing registered teachers.

    However, in terms of the registration fee doctors earn far more than teachers and i'd imagine that their registration is far more complex procedure. Also, in comparision to the equivalent of other EU countries, the annual registration fee of €90 is extortion - it's £25 in the UK. Every time i've set foot in their offices in Maynooth (very plush offices too!), there are a number of efficiencies evident - don't have time to go into them in detail now though as rushing to class!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Pjfogar


    highly1111 wrote: »
    Many professional bodies have an association to which they must belong in order to work in their field, e.g. The Irish Medical Council. Initial registration is €245 and annual registration fee is €490. Keeping up membership allows you to ply your trade in this country. That is what is supposed to happen with the TC. Only the Teaching Council Act still hasn't been fully enacted and schools can be a law unto themselves. You won't find (well I hope you won't find) unregistered doctors working in hospitals and practices in Ireland.

    The TC has a lot of problems associated with it. They have been well documented in this forum, but the part of the problem that is causing unemployed teachers the biggest problem (unqualified teachers) is nothing to do with the TC, it's the problem of the Dept of Education, VECs and individual schools.


    You're absolutely right with what you say. It is up to the BOM's to ensure that they are only employing registered teachers.

    However, in terms of the registration fee doctors earn far more than teachers and i'd imagine that their registration is far more complex procedure. Also, in comparision to the equivalent of other EU countries, the annual registration fee of €90 is extortion - it's £25 in the UK. Every time i've set foot in their offices in Maynooth (very plush offices too!), there are a number of efficiencies evident - don't have time to go into them in detail now though as rushing to class!!

    I've had enough of these c**ts. I applied for my number a month ago. Numerous phone calls / emails , in contact with politicians etc and still the same bs replies. (see website for more info etc.) I can't apply for jobs (no number) they won't tell me how long more I have to wait. Bills as high as the level of bureaucracy in the farce of an organisation. They are a shower of w*****s. Why are we letting these pen pushers hold us to ransom. Why can't they be like the GTC in England? Get your teaching qualification and are registered by return of post. Something drastic has to be done.
    PS I know at least 5 teachers (1 vp) who won't join and told me as much and are still being paid. Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhh


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Pjfogar


    Pjfogar wrote: »
    highly1111 wrote: »
    Many professional bodies have an association to which they must belong in order to work in their field, e.g. The Irish Medical Council. Initial registration is €245 and annual registration fee is €490. Keeping up membership allows you to ply your trade in this country. That is what is supposed to happen with the TC. Only the Teaching Council Act still hasn't been fully enacted and schools can be a law unto themselves. You won't find (well I hope you won't find) unregistered doctors working in hospitals and practices in Ireland.

    The TC has a lot of problems associated with it. They have been well documented in this forum, but the part of the problem that is causing unemployed teachers the biggest problem (unqualified teachers) is nothing to do with the TC, it's the problem of the Dept of Education, VECs and individual schools.


    You're absolutely right with what you say. It is up to the BOM's to ensure that they are only employing registered teachers.

    However, in terms of the registration fee doctors earn far more than teachers and i'd imagine that their registration is far more complex procedure. Also, in comparision to the equivalent of other EU countries, the annual registration fee of €90 is extortion - it's £25 in the UK. Every time i've set foot in their offices in Maynooth (very plush offices too!), there are a number of efficiencies evident - don't have time to go into them in detail now though as rushing to class!!

    I've had enough of these c**ts. I applied for my number a month ago. Numerous phone calls / emails , in contact with politicians etc and still the same bs replies. (see website for more info etc.) I can't apply for jobs (no number) they won't tell me how long more I have to wait. Bills as high as the level of bureaucracy in the farce of an organisation. They are a shower of w*****s. Why are we letting these pen pushers hold us to ransom. Why can't they be like the GTC in England? Get your teaching qualification and are registered by return of post. Something drastic has to be done.
    PS I know at least 5 teachers (1 vp) who won't join and told me as much and are still being paid. Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhh
    PPS had been working for 9 years as a sub before Sept


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭Moody_mona


    You can apply for jobs without TC registration if the process is ongoing. Just say your number is pending.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Many professional bodies have an association to which they must belong in order to work in their field, e.g. The Irish Medical Council. Initial registration is €245 and annual registration fee is €490. Keeping up membership allows you to ply your trade in this country. That is what is supposed to happen with the TC. Only the Teaching Council Act still hasn't been fully enacted and schools can be a law unto themselves. You won't find (well I hope you won't find) unregistered doctors working in hospitals and practices in Ireland.

    Out of interest though, do the IMC offer anything more than the TC in terms of getting a service for your money? Cause an answer of "Well, they pay money as well, so we do to." doesn't really hold up in a longer discussion here. Why do the IMC charge an annual fee as well? What's the reason behind it? I get the initial fee, since it proves qualification, but why the yearly fee on top of that, for either orginisation?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    Out of interest though, do the IMC offer anything more than the TC in terms of getting a service for your money? Cause an answer of "Well, they pay money as well, so we do to." doesn't really hold up in a longer discussion here. Why do the IMC charge an annual fee as well? What's the reason behind it? I get the initial fee, since it proves qualification, but why the yearly fee on top of that, for either orginisation?

    Well, one example for the IMC would be that they conduct investigations and hearing into charges of misconduct against doctors - so I suppose yearly fees contribute to these costs.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,507 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Well, one example for the IMC would be that they conduct investigations and hearing into charges of misconduct against doctors - so I suppose yearly fees contribute to these costs.
    That's why we have an inspectorate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    That's why we have an inspectorate.

    I know, I was just answering Teamshadowclan's question about why the IMC might charge an annual fee.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Pjfogar


    Moody_mona wrote: »
    You can apply for jobs without TC registration if the process is ongoing. Just say your number is pending.

    You can apply ok but if the boss doesn't see a number your app is in the bin!!!!!!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Well, one example for the IMC would be that they conduct investigations and hearing into charges of misconduct against doctors - so I suppose yearly fees contribute to these costs.

    Thats cool. That justifies their yearly charge. I had a feeling they'd so something like that. Do the TC offer similar though? Do we get to go to them/do others get to go to them if there's a problem that needs investigation?

    For the record, it's not that I'm trying to keep this going. I'm worried its coming accross as me wanting to continue picking a fight about TC but it's not. I've taken on board a lot of whats been said. Just trying to justify, to myself more than anyone, why the TC send out this bill every year to get 90€ and where the money is going.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Pjfogar


    Pjfogar wrote: »
    Moody_mona wrote: »
    You can apply for jobs without TC registration if the process is ongoing. Just say your number is pending.

    You can apply ok but if the boss doesn't see a number your app is in the bin!!!!!!

    1 month later and still no number!!!!!!! What are they doing? Cos one things for sure they're not answering the phone and/or queries!
    Only in Ireland


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 967 ✭✭✭highly1111


    Pjfogar wrote: »
    Pjfogar wrote: »
    Moody_mona wrote: »
    You can apply for jobs without TC registration if the process is ongoing. Just say your number is pending.

    You can apply ok but if the boss doesn't see a number your app is in the bin!!!!!!

    1 month later and still no number!!!!!!! What are they doing? Cos one things for sure they're not answering the phone and/or queries!
    Only in Ireland

    If possible, doorstep them in Maynooth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    Pjfogar wrote: »
    Pjfogar wrote: »
    Moody_mona wrote: »
    You can apply for jobs without TC registration if the process is ongoing. Just say your number is pending.

    You can apply ok but if the boss doesn't see a number your app is in the bin!!!!!!

    1 month later and still no number!!!!!!! What are they doing? Cos one things for sure they're not answering the phone and/or queries!
    Only in Ireland
    In their defense, they answered my email (they rang me back but I couldn't answer at the time) and then answered when called them back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Pjfogar


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Pjfogar wrote: »
    Pjfogar wrote: »
    Moody_mona wrote: »
    You can apply for jobs without TC registration if the process is ongoing. Just say your number is pending.

    You can apply ok but if the boss doesn't see a number your app is in the bin!!!!!!

    1 month later and still no number!!!!!!! What are they doing? Cos one things for sure they're not answering the phone and/or queries!
    Only in Ireland
    In their defense, they answered my email (they rang me back but I couldn't answer at the time) and then answered when called them back.
    Eventually got through to " someone ". Was told number wont be through till Christmas!!!!!!!!! " We have to go through our process "....... That's grand I replied , the bank will probably be starting their own process by then..... To which "someone" replied "That's not in our remit".......
    If it wasn't so serious I would have burst out laughing. Politicians (non government or FF) on the case now. Are these people for real?
    And yet the Dept are still paying non registered teachers. Duplicity.......


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    Actually, now that I think of it, I think they didn't answer until I went for the Gaeilge option. Perhaps more of those complaining should learn some of their own language. ;)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Quick questions about the whole "You've got to work a certain number of hours after getting your qualification" malarky.

    I got 4 hours in a school last week, covering 6 classes. At the end of the day, I was asked if I wanted a photocopy of my timetable for the day and I said no, not thinking there was a need. Then I realised, hours later, that I may have needed that to prove the hours I had worked. So do the TC keep track of the hours you have worked, based on the payslips or anything like that? I know the school asked for my TC number so does the info go from the school to the TC? Or was I supposed to keep a record of it myself?

    Also, and I think I know the answer but I'll ask anyway, I have now worked three days in a special needs school, with students who were technically 1st-3rd years. But it wasn't a typical secondary school. There wasn't set class times; it was just a matter of school running from 9-3 and had more of a primary school set up. Would these hours count towards my total? I'd imagine not but thought I'd ask :)

    EDIT: Also, how many hours are actually required for the thing and over how few years?

    Thanks all :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭Moody_mona


    You're supposed to get 300 hours in three years. The TC have increased the primary one to five years and you can send in extenuating circumstances or whatever so my concern wouldnt be the three years. It's called PQE for post qualification experience if you want to look up the TC website for more info.

    You should have kept the timetable, but you could just make your own, you need the principal(s) to sign off on the hours at the end so some record would be necessary. The TC will not look for the photocopy but it'll let the principal add up how many hours you did there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    Just be glad they have done away with the previous rule that "only weeks where 18 or more hours were taught may be counted".

    So you would have to kiss goodbye to your 3 hours - or even your 13 hours!


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 15,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭rebel girl 15


    Question - at the moment, I'm out on final year TP on a B.Ed course (PE), is it possible for me to register with the TC as I know that HDip students must be registered with the TC to be paid for substitution work (VEC school)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭mrboswell


    I suspect not. You have to be a qualified teacher (degree and dip) to register so if you are still in college you will get paid at the unqualified rate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 MiseEireannach


    Bill published yeaterday (jan 12 2012) by Ruari Quinn which will pave the way for section 30 of Teaching Council act which is supposed to make TC membership mandatory for payment.

    http://www.into.ie/ROI/NewsEvents/LatestNews/Title,21481,en.php

    How long do bills like this take to become legislation? When does one need to register for TC?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,651 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    When does one need to register for TC?

    Either 2006 or when you started teaching if after that.
    I don't have any pity for people who chanced their arm and will find it difficult to get joined up quickly because we all knew this day was coming.

    Bit like ignoring the household charge, the Govt will make their way anyways


  • Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭Flashgordon197


    They have abolished the teaching council in the Uk. We need a body to vet teachers and deal with serious professional misconduct but we dont need a full time body with 10 million in the bank as our teaching council does. I have a thread on the code of professional conduct. All teachers should look at it(the Code) and comment. Its terribly prescriptive. All teachers should know that every educational problem is your fault. (Im being sarcastic!) under this code. No context-just fault.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭raytray


    They haven't abolished the GTC in the Uk. It is still here. And if they do abolish it is being replaced.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭lestat21


    I emailed the GTCE with a query last Sunday and still no reply.. They might as well have closed down!!!

    Whatever the future of the GTCE, it looks like English teachers wont have to pay an annual fee anymore.

    Taken from www.gtce.org.uk

    The Government is working towards a closure date for the GTC of 31 March 2012. In the interim, teachers must continue to register with the Council; and employers must continue to ensure that teachers are registered, and refer disciplinary cases to the Council.

    The Secretary of State for Education has confirmed that the GTC will be charging a registration fee for the financial year 2011-2012 set at the current rate of £36.50. This is the final fee the GTC will levy, even if uncertainties in the parliamentary process put back the final closure date.

    Key points:
    • Expected closure date is 31 March 2012.
    • Registration remains a legal requirement.
    • The fee will be kept at £36.50 for 2011-2012.
    • There will be no GTC fee for the financial year 2012-2013.
    • The future of the GTC’s functions has yet to be determined by the Government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭raytray


    Well that is some good news!
    P.S- you are better off ringing them. Think turnaround time for email answers is approx 5 days. They are very helpful on the phone and not usually waiting too long to get through.


  • Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭NewHillel


    They have abolished the teaching council in the Uk. We need a body to vet teachers and deal with serious professional misconduct but we dont need a full time body with 10 million in the bank as our teaching council does. I have a thread on the code of professional conduct. All teachers should look at it(the Code) and comment. Its terribly prescriptive. All teachers should know that every educational problem is your fault. (Im being sarcastic!) under this code. No context-just fault.

    Codes of conduct are common accross all professions, and should be welcomed with open arms. Its absolute rubbish to suggest, sarcastically or otherwise, that under the draft code 'All teachers should know that every educational problem is your fault.' I provided links to other professions code in your other thread and the draft Teachers code compares well.

    What exactly are you so afraid of? :confused:


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,290 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I have no problem with the professional code where it relates to what I do in the classroom or in relation to parents/children/colleagues/other people I come into contact with at work.

    I object strenuously where it tries to dictate what I can and cannot do in my time off work, in my own home, in my own time, in situations which are nothing to do with work or teaching. As it is written at the moment, no distinction is made.


  • Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭NewHillel


    spurious wrote: »
    I have no problem with the professional code where it relates to what I do in the classroom or in relation to parents/children/colleagues/other people I come into contact with at work.

    I genuinely believe that it is a step forward in this area.

    spurious wrote: »
    I object strenuously where it tries to dictate what I can and cannot do in my time off work, in my own home, in my own time, in situations which are nothing to do with work or teaching. As it is written at the moment, no distinction is made.

    I can understand that, time was when I would have had the same opinion. When I started out there were few restrictions on my private life, either. Little by little, that has changed. My employment contract now has far greater constraints, legally enforceable, than any code of contact.

    You could look at this another way, that teaching is finally getting the level of professional recognition it deserves. Most professions have codes of conduct that extend at some level, or other, to private life. Being a member of a profession brings with it a responsibility to uphold the standing of that profession, and not bring it into disrepute.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,290 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    NewHillel wrote: »
    You could look at this another way, that teaching is finally getting the level of professional recognition it deserves. Most professions have codes of conduct that extend at some level, or other, to private life. Being a member of a profession brings with it a responsibility to uphold the standing of that profession, and not bring it into disrepute.

    I could and I could hope for the large increase in (or reinstatement of) salary such new level of recognition should bring.

    I welcome the code of behaviour in general, particularly where it concerns social networking. I see too many of the younger teachers on our staff leaving themselves wide open to all sorts of allegations. 'In my day' we called it common sense, but now it seems someone has to draw up rules.


  • Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭NewHillel


    spurious wrote: »
    I could and I could hope for the large increase in (or reinstatement of) salary such new level of recognition should bring.

    Don't we all. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭Flashgordon197


    NewHillel wrote: »
    Codes of conduct are common accross all professions, and should be welcomed with open arms. Its absolute rubbish to suggest, sarcastically or otherwise, that under the draft code 'All teachers should know that every educational problem is your fault.' I provided links to other professions code in your other thread and the draft Teachers code compares well.

    What exactly are you so afraid of? :confused:

    Every Profession is unique so Im not sure the value of comparison. Having read several recent documents by NEWB-there is a clear trend. Remove all context and blame from students and parents. Partnership is thus a vacuous phrase that looks good but in reality is non -existent in terms of expectations. I also doubt many other codes have only two options-fitness to practice or not. These codes are similar to the UK ones-where teachers have been dragged in for-using a mobile phone in the yard. Heres to the future..


  • Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭NewHillel


    Every Profession is unique so Im not sure the value of comparison.

    C'mon, comparison with disparate professions in Industry was a core tenet of the Public Service Benchmarking process.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭golden virginia


    Whilst i look on the Teachers Code as being a positive step, much of what is actually being proposed in the new draft code is pitched at educational goals that are at too high a level beyond teachers practical control. Such goals are far more appropriate to boards of management who are the professionals who manage the schools.

    In comparison the Nurses code is far more practical being aimed at the work the nurses actually do and which they have control of.

    A teacher can only do what they - can do - they are not school management.


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