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Abolish the Dole

13567

Comments

  • #62
    mackg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    The dole AND the minimum wage should be abolished. Those people in the under classes who feed like parasites off the dole and social welfare would be churned into factories, increasing the country's workforce and productivity. In the meantime, you'd see a decrease in the amount of unmarried mothers and general social degeneration.

    Where did that come from? That is probably the most mental thing I have ever read on boards.


  • #63
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    mackg wrote: »
    Where did that come from? That is probably the most mental thing I have ever read on boards.

    Desperate times call for desperate measures.


  • #64
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,069 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    January 2007 there was 158,752 people on the Live Register

    July 2011 there was 470,284.

    Silly topic of course - just thought I'd throw in the actual figures though.


  • #65
    StephenHendry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭StephenHendry


    Logical FallacyQuote:
    Originally Posted by StephenHendry viewpost.gif
    the dole is very high in this country, if you reduced to a certain level by 50/60 euros and only bring this back up if people can provide evidence they have applied for some jobs, details of training programmes that they have applied for

    How much is the dole in this country?



    The standard payment is €188 per week. Payments can be increased if the unemployed has dependants. For each adult dependent, another €124.80 is added; and for each child dependent, another €29.80 is added.

    this what i got form wiki so it may not be 100% correct.


  • #66
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    flutterflye wrote: »
    Anarchy! Whoop!

    Anarchy would be a the more desriable outcome imho.
    Anarchy

    a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anarchy

    A society wihout coercion would see loads of people losing out on their priveldges (not just people on welfare) There would be no enforcement of copright (Think U2 and microsoft and Apple) no enforcment of patent (think cheap medication) No public sector (Oh dear me) etc etc.


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  • #67
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Abolishing the dole and moving to a minimum wage would end up with all out rioting and all out destruction of the state.

    Put the army on the streets with a shoot-to-kill policy for a couple of weeks until it all calms down. The chavs/scangers will not have their way like they did in the UK.


  • #68
    mackg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    Desperate times call for desperate measures.

    How do you churn people into factories when a major problem is that a load of factories closed?


  • #69
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    StephenHendry wrote: »
    Logical FallacyQuote:
    Originally Posted by StephenHendry viewpost.gif
    the dole is very high in this country, if you reduced to a certain level by 50/60 euros and only bring this back up if people can provide evidence they have applied for some jobs, details of training programmes that they have applied for

    How much is the dole in this country?



    The standard payment is €188 per week. Payments can be increased if the unemployed has dependants. For each adult dependent, another €124.80 is added; and for each child dependent, another €29.80 is added.

    this what i got form wiki so it may not be 100% correct.

    So you missed the bit where after the relevant PRSI payments have been used up the dole drops by the amount you already claimed would be a good idea to drop it?

    Also just wondering how you can be certain that dole was very high when it appears you had to look up how much the dole actually was?

    Finally, do you know how this compares to other European states?
    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    Put the army on the streets with a shoot-to-kill policy for a couple of weeks until it all calms down. The chavs/scangers will not have their way like they did in the UK.

    More gold.

    You are rapidly becoming the star of this thread.


  • #70
    up for anything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,791 ✭✭✭up for anything


    Irish Slaves for Europe wrote: »
    Yeah yeah yeah, this scare tactic has been used many a time by workshy bums. Our overpaid, privileged dole scum are so well off that we have one of the worst rates of drug abuse in the world. Heroin abuse and alcohol abuse in particular are rampant among the unemployed. Think of all the savings in healthcare and policing we could make if we reduced dole so that people could only afford food and shelter with it, and maybe the odd pint or two.

    I wish you'd tell me how to manage my Lone Parents benefit in order to buy food, subsidise shelter and still manage to get off my head on heroin and/or alcohol. It can't ****ing be done in all honesty. Those people who are abusing various substances have to be supplementing their income by robbery or prostitution because they aren't bloody doing it on the dole unless they are they are homeless and don't eat.


  • #71
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,069 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    We are much higher than the country which is most comparable - i.e. Britain.


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  • #72
    orangebud
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭orangebud


    Lets abolish money


  • #73
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    mackg wrote: »
    How do you churn people into factories when a major problem is that a load of factories closed?

    What's stopping the factories from being open?


  • #74
    mackg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    So you missed the bit where after the relevant PRSI payments have been used up the dole drops by the amount you already claimed would be a good idea to drop it?

    Also just wondering how you can be certain that dole was very high when it appears you had to look up how much the dole actually was?

    Finally, do you know how this compares to other European states?



    More gold.

    You are rapidly becoming the star of this thread.

    To be fair they could make the ammunition for the shoot on sight policy in the factories he wants to churn the unemployed into.


  • #75
    flutterflye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Anarchy would be a the more desriable outcome imho.

    I wasn't being sarcastic.
    I agree with you!

    Marx believed that Ireland would be the first place to revolt and rebel, and the anarchy would lead to a communist revolution.
    This may have actually occurred if the welfare system were not brought in.
    I am not saying that I want this to happen - that would mean years of riots, crime, poverty, killings, and general terror.
    But at the same time, I do wonder would Marx's predictions ring true.


  • #76
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    More gold.

    You are rapidly becoming the star of this thread.

    Your condescension is irritating.


  • #77
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Sergeant wrote: »
    How did we ever evolve, stopped living in caves and make something of ourselves as a species without the gentle hand of the welfare state to assist us?
    In a way we're always had the welfare state, humans work in tribes that look out for their own. When humans stop looking out for their own and don't value the welfare of their neighbours that's when things really start to go down hill.
    Irish Slaves for Europe wrote: »
    Yeah yeah yeah, this scare tactic has been used many a time by workshy bums. Our overpaid, privileged dole scum are so well off that we have one of the worst rates of drug abuse in the world.
    I find that very hard to believe, I always thought it was countries like Iran and other countries directly on the heroin trial that have the highest heroin use.
    Heroin abuse and alcohol abuse in particular are rampant among the unemployed.
    Poor and disenfranchised.
    Think of all the savings in healthcare and policing we could make if we reduced dole so that people could only afford food and shelter with it, and maybe the odd pint or two.
    Your completely naive if you think people will just not want those luxury's just because they don't have the money to buy them. People are bombarded with incentives to process products, maybe if we also restricted poor peoples access to the media it would be possible.


  • #78
    mackg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    flutterflye wrote: »
    I wasn't being sarcastic.
    I agree with you!

    Marx believed that Ireland would be the first place to revolt and rebel, and the anarchy would lead to a communist revolution.
    This may have actually occurred if the welfare system were not brought in.
    I am not saying that I want this to happen - that would mean years of riots, crime, poverty, killings, and general terror.
    But at the same time, I do wonder would Marx's predictions ring true.

    ALL HAIL GENERAL TERROR


  • #79
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    Put the army on the streets with a shoot-to-kill policy for a couple of weeks until it all calms down. The chavs/scangers will not have their way like they did in the UK.

    Two problems off the top of my head.

    1. Mutiny. How many of the Army would want to go out slaying people on the street many of who they might know.

    2. Trying to control what would effectively be a rebellion with maybe 2/3 hundred thousand men and women of fighting age taking to the streets.


  • #80
    Irish Slaves for Europe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 235 ✭✭Irish Slaves for Europe


    Collie D wrote: »
    :confused: Care to elaborate or do you just want to spout ****e?

    Isn't it obvious? Less heroin abuse and less alcohol abuse equals less scumbags clogging up our hospitals, and less police needed due to less crime


  • #81
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Irish Slaves for Europe wrote: »
    Yeah yeah yeah, this scare tactic has been used many a time by workshy bums. Our overpaid, privileged dole scum are so well off that we have one of the worst rates of drug abuse in the world. Heroin abuse and alcohol abuse in particular are rampant among the unemployed. Think of all the savings in healthcare and policing we could make if we reduced dole so that people could only afford food and shelter with it, and maybe the odd pint or two.

    fcuk iving the scum drink , they should be banned from alcohol and cigarettes


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  • #82
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    flutterflye wrote: »
    I wasn't being sarcastic.
    I agree with you!

    Marx believed that Ireland would be the first place to revolt and rebel, and the anarchy would lead to a communist revolution.
    This may have actually occurred if the welfare system were not brought in.
    I am not saying that I want this to happen - that would mean years of riots, crime, poverty, killings, and general terror.
    But at the same time, I do wonder would Marx's predictions ring true.

    Ireland would not become a communist country, communism only works if theres a decent work ethic, the very fact this thread is here and http://en-gb.facebook.com/people/Socialwelfare-Defenders-Ireland/100002004937723 exists proves that Ireland would never work under communism


  • #83
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    1. Mutiny. How many of the Army would want to go out slaying people on the street many of who they might know.

    Allocate troops in different parts of the country far from their home areas. Dublin soldiers patrolling Cork, Cork soldiers patrolling Dublin. Either that or hire mercenaries from abroad.
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    2. Trying to control what would effectively be a rebellion with maybe 2/3 hundred thousand men and women of fighting age taking to the streets.

    With no guns or ammunition?


  • #84
    Temptamperu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    Its funny how people who are giving out about the dole are hanging around a forum in the middle of the workday :rolleyes:


  • #85
    eilo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭eilo1


    Irish Slaves for Europe wrote: »
    less scumbags clogging up our hospitals, and less police needed due to less crime

    But then wont we just have more unemployed gardai and health care workers :D


  • #86
    adam500
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 ✭adam500


    And your the type of preson that got the country into this mess, ya silly spoon.


  • #87
    StephenHendry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭StephenHendry


    dont the americans have a system where people on welfare get food vouchers etc. maybe we should reduce the dole but give the people on welfare food vouchers etc, heating/gas vouchers so as to not give them just the payment itself only for a lot of them to squander it on booze


  • #88
    lamai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭lamai


    Confab wrote: »
    Moronic idea. Abolishing the dole will dramtically increase violent crime rates. Extra policing, more spent on healthcare, social workers etc = more than you just saved abolishing the dole. Cue many more homeless too.

    The dole in Ireland for a single person is on the low side compared to our cost of living index.

    Oh yeah, and I've just stuck you on my ignore list, OP.

    Bit much? What about countries that don't give people anything?


  • #89
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Temptamperu wrote: »
    Its funny how people who are giving out about the dole are hanging around a forum in the middle of the workday :rolleyes:

    Lunch break perhaps?


  • #90
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    I've seen a lot of threads complaining about the dole but this one is a bit extreme. Why should people on the dole not have the right to fart in the privacy of their own home?


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  • #91
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    flutterflye wrote: »
    I wasn't being sarcastic.
    I agree with you!

    Oops my mistake facepalm.jep.
    I do wonder would Marx's predictions ring true.

    I think his ideas are too utopian and need to be enforced and we'd probably eventually end up with a little east germany GDR style state.

    I'm attracted to anarcho-syndicalism which was operated quite successfully in Spain in the inter-war years.
    .. anarcho-syndicalists regard the state as a profoundly anti-worker institution. They view the primary purpose of the state as being the defence of private property and therefore of economic, social and political privilege, even when such defence denies its citizens the ability to enjoy material independence and the social autonomy which springs from it..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism

    I'm also intrigued by libertarianism (or anarcho-capitalsim to be precise).

    Essentially I'm anti-previledge but don't am not sure how it would be best achieved.


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