Should Declan Kidney be sacked after the world cup?

Dempsey · 27-08-2011 09:00PM

GerM wrote: »

You appeared to be saying that he shouldn't be sacked even following a WC campaign.

Dempsey wrote: »

Should he be sacked after the world cup? No and to say he should be at this stage smacks of stupidity tbh

Thats the key bit. Maybe I should have been clearer but I did mean deciding if he should be sacked after the world cup before the world cup is played.

DylanJM · 27-08-2011 09:01PM

Dempsey wrote: »

:facepalm

I question your interpretation of the english language

Touché, must concede defeat on that one.

I've always regarded a couple as referring to two though when talking about years.

GerM · 27-08-2011 09:20PM

DylanJM wrote: »

Touché, must concede defeat on that one.

I've always regarded a couple as referring to two though when talking about years.

You and the majority of the population.

tolosenc · 27-08-2011 09:26PM

Dempsey wrote: »

I havent defended performances since then so I dont know why you feel the need to give me a reminder.

So you're of the opinion that consistant under-performance is acceptable? Can you be my boss please? Not having any expectations to live up to would make my job a lot easier!

Dempsey wrote: »

I said that deciding to sack him now before a game played in NZ is stupid, and it is. I'd bet that you'd be seething if Ireland have a great world cup because you'd have so much egg on your face, never mind the idea of winning the WC!

I don't see why. He's been consistantly bad enough to merit getting the sack. The only thing that can happen in NZ is that all of this will be swept under the carpet by an OK performance.

We cannot forget, no matter how well we do in the WC, that he is a terrible coach at international level, or just under the new laws, where his W-D-L record is 10-1-18.

Chiorino · 27-08-2011 09:35PM

NufcNavan wrote: »

Grand Slams are worth nothing these days I suppose..

Considering it was Eddie O sullivan's team that won it.

NufcNavan · 27-08-2011 10:05PM

Fight_Night wrote: »

That was 2 years ago.

..And how many years between that one and the one before that??

NufcNavan · 27-08-2011 10:06PM

Chiorino wrote: »

Considering it was Eddie O sullivan's team that won it.

And it was Eddie O' Sullivan's team that constantly fell short against France until Kidney took over..

tolosenc · 27-08-2011 10:18PM

NufcNavan wrote: »

..And how many years between that one and the one before that??

OK, so O'Gara, Sexton or Kyle for starting FH?

Fishtits · 27-08-2011 11:05PM

Brendan97 wrote: »

After shocking performances from Ireland in the world cup warm-ups.
should declan kidney be sacked?

Usually I ignore silly posts, but this one caught my eye, so to speak.

Would the OP be so good as to inform us of his rugby experience - who he has played for, what level, who he has coached, what he has achieved etc etc.

PS how old he is...

I'm curious to know how he has decided that DK (who up till now, has won every competition his teams have entered) is suddenly not fit to manage our team.

Who would the OP suggest in his place? (Don't give me Jake White...)

That's the problem with giving kids internet access...

Bearcat · 27-08-2011 11:12PM

kahf1_02 wrote: »

People, what is happening to Irish rugby? This isn't the Ireland I know. We seem to be cursed with bad luck prior to WC's. Kidney must stay. He could turn things around drastically in the WC, by reaching the semi's. Kidney is a smart man, he'll regroup and re-rally the troops and settle heads.

We are goosed. I would be surprised if we even beat Italy. Woeful performance followed by another just opens the gates of folk demanding change in management.

GerM · 27-08-2011 11:17PM

Bearcat wrote: »

We are goosed. I would be surprised if we even beat Italy. Woeful performance followed by another just opens the gates of folk demanding change in management.

I think it was Hook who, unusually, made a half decent point on RTE. He said that if we don't have our strongest 15 on the pitch against Italy, we're in serious danger of losing to them. It's a pretty fair point; Italy aren't useless by a long shot. They're our last game in the pool stages and there's a decent chance that we might have a few injuries. We're already down one of our starting team. If we were to lose Mike Ross it would be a seriously difficult match for us. I have no faith in our backs to open them up at this stage regardless of who is at 10. I would seriously advocate Paddy Wallace starting at 12 against them though.

CatFromHue · 27-08-2011 11:20PM

Bearcat wrote: »

I would be surprised if we even beat Italy.

Why? We haven't lost to them in years! A near first choice Italian 15 went down to the Scots last week by 23 to 12. Our second/third choice team also went down to the Scots but only by a last min try!

You do know we beat them in Italy at the start of the 6 Nations! Sometimes I feel like it's a competition to see who can be the most pessimistic!

Fight_Night · 27-08-2011 11:24PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

Why? We haven't lost to them in years! A near first choice Italian 15 went down to the Scots last week by 23 to 12. Our second/third choice team also went down to the Scots but only by a last min try!

You do know we beat them in Italy at the start of the 6 Nations! Sometimes I feel like it's a competition to see who can be the most pessimistic!

We struggled to beat Georgia in 07 and I'd rate Italy higher than Georgia. You should never give a team too much respect but Italy are not bad and tbh I think they deserved to beat us in the six nations this year.

Hermy · 27-08-2011 11:37PM

Fishtits wrote: »

...has won every competition his teams have entered...

Not sure how many Heineken Cups he's entered but I'm pretty sure he's only won two of them.

sxt · 27-08-2011 11:56PM

NufcNavan wrote: »

And it was Eddie O' Sullivan's team that constantly fell short against France until Kidney took over..

except for one game, they still do constantly fall short against france

LuckyLloyd · 28-08-2011 12:39AM

If we end up in a WC Semi he should not be sacked.
If we bust out in the group stages he should be sacked.
If we lose in the Quarter Finals it really depends on the manner of the performances involved.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 28-08-2011 12:41AM

I voted yes but a good WC could save him

By that I mean we can't just beat the USA Italy and Russia being beaten by Australians and South Africa and pat ourselves for a job well done. That isn't doing well.

Getting a semi-final spot or beating a big team is important imo

sting60 · 28-08-2011 01:04AM

CUTE WHORISM ,MAYBE IF NOT kIDNEY OUT.BOD IS NOT PLAYING ALSO .

Hagz · 28-08-2011 01:18AM

Under Kidney, the Irish team has won 19/33 games. They lost 13 and drew 1.
That means Kidney's win percentage is around 57%.

To give you a comparison, Warren Gatland has a win percentage of bang on 50%.

However, Kidney has played the Sanzar teams a combined 7 times, whereas Gatland has come across them 13 times.

If we are to keep things strictly in the 6nations area, i.e. only games against England, Italy, Wales, France and Scotland; then Kidney maintains a win percentage of 57%, whereas Gatland's is 63%. However, take away these warm-up games and Kidney has a win percentage of 73%.

Make of that what you will:pac:

tolosenc · 28-08-2011 01:31AM

Importantly, since the laws of the game were changed:

Australia - D
Fiji - W
South Africa - W
Italy - W
France - L
England - W
Wales - W
Scotland - L
(Barbarians - L)
New Zealand - L
(Maori - L)
Australia - L
South Africa - L
Samoa - W
New Zealand - L
Argentina - W
Italy - W
France - L
Wales - L
Scotland - W
England - W
Scotland - L
France - L
France - L
England - L

40% win rate. In only 1 of those games did we actually play well.

Kidney cannot hack it in the new game.

Hagz · 28-08-2011 01:48AM

tolosenc wrote: »

Importantly, since the laws of the game were changed:

Australia - D
Fiji - W
South Africa - W
Italy - W
France - L
England - W
Wales - W
Scotland - L
New Zealand - L
Australia - L
South Africa - L
Samoa - W
New Zealand - L
Argentina - W
Italy - W
France - L
Wales - L
Scotland - W
England - W

40% win rate. In only 1 of those games did we actually play well.

Kidney cannot hack it in the new game.

Fair point. Even if you take away these warm-ups, and the experimental games against the Maori and Barbarians, his win percentage is still just 52%.
Not great, but not so bad that I'd be rushing him out the door. Let's just see how this WC pans out. If we don't progress and improve, a change is needed.

matthew8 · 28-08-2011 01:59AM

Sack Kidney and get someone from the southern hemisphere in if we don't get results. Hopefully New Zealand bow out in the semis and under pressure from the people they sack Henry and we hire him.

Podge_irl · 28-08-2011 03:42AM

Fishtits wrote: »

I'm curious to know how he has decided that DK (who up till now, has won every competition his teams have entered) is suddenly not fit to manage our team.

His inability to win games seems to be a pretty good indicator.

[Jackass] · 28-08-2011 07:19AM

6 Nations form has been poor, granted, but I would take absolutely zero merit out of these warm up games as evidence of anything.

The world cup will be the true reflection of where we are and where Kidney has brought this team.

He got a bounce of the ball that Eddie O'Sullivan never got and won the Grand Slam with Eddie O'Sullivans team, this is now Declan Kidneys team and his merits as Ireland coach should be purely judged on this world cup, the end of every coaches cycle that the previous seasons build up to.

Eddie failed his miserably. Now it's Uncle Deccies turn to give it a shot and I think we should all withhold judgement until we see how we get on. One win over Australia and we could be on to something great.

doomed · 28-08-2011 08:22AM

He's been there a long time and coaches become out of date. That can be OK if you keep bringing new ideas into the backroom but that is not really happening. A lot of the present team wont be around for the next RWC so I would give a new coach a 4 year run culminating with that tournament.

Whoever it is needs to pick on form not sentiment and that includes looking at Irish guys playing in England. Mike Ross only got into the Irish team by coming home. They also have to move with the times and I think that means a southern hemisphere coach. They must have total authority over the team, the choice of backroom etc. Everyone else stays in the bar. This is a professional sport.

BarackPyjama · 28-08-2011 08:22AM

It's very simple - we go into the world cup playing completely differently to how we're played to date. i.e playing the modern, expansive, high-intensity game or we don't.

If Kidney hasn't adapted by now, then he should go after the WC.

joseywhales · 28-08-2011 09:16AM

We actually have already lost to be honest, unless this was the greatest ploy ever in world rugby history, which it wasn't. Ireland are finished. We are abslutlely finished, as far as I can see, we might aswell lose to Italy aswell because we are going nowhere there's is no pride in what we are doing, our best players are deteriorating and we are not adapting.

I feel sorry for some of the new guys who have managed to brake into the team because they'll will never reach the goals they are capable of or deserve to achieve, since they are trapped in this misguided irish bull****.

This is a tragedy that happens here every four years.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 28-08-2011 10:45AM

im always amused when i see people cry sack the coach
always same threaders but not surprising
can keepo changing coaches but takes players too step up too rthe mark to win games,we lack alot of things on the field specialy leadership of late
al these players are pros bvut not playing 100% as pros
we have the top of Provinces of Ireland in europe
these players are so called pros,yet the havent in long long time plat well together,the players have too look at themselfs
has been said several times even on sky sports,ireland lack passion,hunger,to many errors,the players are the ones on the field,they can do all the training and coaching but when out on field,its up too the players too step up too the mark,hopefully they can at wc

jacothelad · 28-08-2011 11:34AM

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

im always amused when i see people cry sack the coach
always same threaders but not surprising
can keepo changing coaches but takes players too step up too rthe mark to win games,we lack alot of things on the field specialy leadership of late
al these players are pros bvut not playing 100% as pros
we have the top of Provinces of Ireland in europe
these players are so called pros,yet the havent in long long time plat well together,the players have too look at themselfs
has been said several times even on sky sports,ireland lack passion,hunger,to many errors,the players are the ones on the field,they can do all the training and coaching but when out on field,its up too the players too step up too the mark,hopefully they can at wc

these players are so called pros,yet the havent in long long time plat well together,the players have too look at themselfs
has been said several times even on sky sports,ireland lack passion,hunger,to many errors,the players are the ones on the field,they can do all the training and coaching but when out on field,its up too the players too step up too the mark,hopefully they can at wc

[/B]

Que?

KELTICKNIGHTT · 28-08-2011 11:58AM

jacothelad wrote: »

Que?

?????

Should Declan Kidney be sacked after the world cup?

Comments