Should Declan Kidney be sacked after the world cup?

Brendan97

After shocking performances from Ireland in the world cup warm-ups.
should declan kidney be sacked?

petebricquette

Brendan97 wrote: »

After shocking performances from Ireland in the world cup warm-ups.
should declan kidney be sacked?

Well, they'd have to buy him out of his contract if they did it now. I'm going to reserve judgement until after we crash out in the quarters.

Stev_o

Brendan97 wrote: »

After shocking performances from Ireland in the world cup warm-ups.
should declan kidney be sacked?

No and if someone suggested he should be they should get their head checked. You don't fire your coach before a World Cup.

skregs

petebricquette wrote: »

Well, they'd have to buy him out of his contract if they did it now. I'm going to reserve judgement until after we crash out in the quarters.

Considering the injuries we're picking up, we could be murdered by the Italian pack, and they're not going to lose to the US or Russia.

astonaidan

I do wonder if He came from a Leinster background would this even be a topic

petebricquette

astonaidan wrote: »

I do wonder if He came from a Leinster background would this even be a topic

Of course it would. Regardless of where he's from he's mismanaged players, our highly-skilled backline have looked pedestrian and inexperienced and he's somehow gotten some of the best players the Irish game has seen to play like schoolboys.

maddness

astonaidan wrote: »

I do wonder if He came from a Leinster background would this even be a topic

YES.

He should be judged after the world cup. It looks very bad now though.:mad:

Brendan97

Stev_o wrote: »

No and if someone suggested he should be they should get their head checked. You don't fire your coach before a World Cup.

i mean after the WC, i'm not stupid enough to suggest sacking him before the world cup that would only make matters worse

Stev_o

Brendan97 wrote: »

i mean after the WC, i'm not stupid enough to suggest sacking him before the world cup that would only make matters worse

Then change your thread's title because it suggests the opposite.

Brendan97

Stev_o wrote: »

Then change your thread's title because it suggests the opposite.

not sure how to i'm only on boards a week

eoferrall

astonaidan wrote: »

I do wonder if He came from a Leinster background would this even be a topic

Nothing to do with a munster/leinster background for me. I do not want him sacked now, would not benefit the team at all. the team has not performed for 3 seasons at the level it could, we have slipped below scotland in the world rankings (our lowest ever ranking since they were introduced). kidneys win ratio is about 59% i think compared to EOS 65% and people where upset with him.

Personally I feel the main issue lies in the backs, we have lacked penetration and invention in the back department and I feel this is gaffneys issue, I have not really been impressed with his 'coaching' whereever he has been munster, leinster or ireland (don't know enough about saracens etc to comment there). I think I recall that he is going back to Australia next year? do I remember right? I think Kidney is responsible for the team, and if a coach is not working out then he needs to act.

But I do think there are issues there that need resolving as the team is not playing to the sum of its parts, and not looking like a team at all.

The alternative is none of the players are as good as we think, that they are all great HEC players, but only decent international players?:eek:

But all in all, its nonsense to even just firing him before the RWC has even started. if Ireland does well, in 2 months everyone will be singing his praises, if not after 2012 6 nations if we don't perform he could be in serious pressure cooker situation.

tolosenc

Even if we win the world cup, he should bee got rid of as soon as we're on the plane home.

Brendan97

Stev_o wrote: »

Then change your thread's title because it suggests the opposite.

done

Charliesierra

No i don't think he should be sacked
hes trying combinations out and these matches were the right place to do it
its too late to test players in New Zealand
remember these are all professional players that play top class provincial rugby
they are the ones on the ground
and i'm a leinster supporter

Fight_Night

astonaidan wrote: »

I do wonder if He came from a Leinster background would this even be a topic

Can you honestly say you have been happy with the way this Irish team has played for the majority of it's games, post 2009?

NufcNavan

Grand Slams are worth nothing these days I suppose..

skregs

NufcNavan wrote: »

Grand Slams are worth nothing these days I suppose..

He's followed up on that success so well...

Dempsey

tolosenc wrote: »

Even if we win the world cup, he should bee got rid of as soon as we're on the plane home.

ROFL

You're entering George Hook territory with that opinion.

I dont care about the results in the warm ups or even the performances as long as lessons have been learned for when it matters, World Cup matches.

Should he be sacked after the world cup? No and to say he should be at this stage smacks of stupidity tbh

We should be supporting the team, not waiting for an opportunity to stick the preverbal knife into people.

Fight_Night

NufcNavan wrote: »

Grand Slams are worth nothing these days I suppose..

That was 2 years ago.

tolosenc

Dempsey wrote: »

I dont care about the results in the warm ups or even the performances as long as lessons have been learned for when it matters, World Cup matches.

Should he be sacked after the world cup? No and to say he should be at this stage smacks of stupidity tbh

ROFL

It's not just these last 4 games. We have been terrible for a couple of years now. He should have been gone last year, and certainly after the last 6 Nations.

It smacks of stupididty to stick with a coach who has no idea what he's doing? TBH, it smacks of stupidity to blindly stick with the incompetent management we have now.

Dempsey

tolosenc wrote: »

ROFL

It's not just these last 4 games. We have been terrible for a couple of years now. He should have been gone last year, and certainly after the last 6 Nations.

It smacks of stupididty to stick with a coach who has no idea what he's doing? TBH, it smacks of stupidity to blindly stick with the incompetent management we have now.

Couple of years, it was only 2 years ago that he brought home the gland slam.

Blindly stick? More sensationalist tripe

tolosenc

Yes, couple means 2. In the last 24 months, we have been awful. In fact, we were awful in the 2009 6N.

Fight_Night

Dempsey wrote: »

Couple of years, it was only 2 years ago that he brought home the gland slam.

Blindly stick? More sensationalist tripe

Winning a trophy 2 years ago is not enough to justify his employment. Nothing sensationalist about it, we've had 2 relatively poor years where we haven't done much. I don't have the exact stats but somebody posted them earlier and I think it was 8 wins and 18 losses since 2009.

GerM

Dempsey wrote: »

Couple of years, it was only 2 years ago that he brought home the gland slam.

Blindly stick? More sensationalist tripe

2 years and many games ago, Dempsey. I don't want any knee jerk reactions and DK should of course lead us into this WC but if it isn't a successful campaign it will have to come into consideration. Losing 11 of the last 16 matches is nowhere near good enough given the players that we have. Scotland have a far more successful win ratio over the same number of games. The same Scotland that is made up nearly entirely of Edinburgh and Glasgow players and plays possibly the worst rugby in the world.

Hagz

I'm waiting till after the WC. The major criticism I'd have of Kidney is that he didn't really build a squad in preparation to this World Cup. He persisted with the familiar and remained loyal in his selections in circumstances where it wasn't appropriate. Guys like Hagan, Tuohy, Wilkinson, Duffy, Jennings and probably even Downey, should have more caps than they do.

One of the key elements of a squad in my opinion, is competition from within. If a player relaxes and assumes his name is on the team-sheet, you wont get the best out of him. You can't go into a world cup with XV guys plus cover. You need a whole squad that are all stating a case to be selected. Obviously you will have players who demand their place, that's natural, but it's imperative that there's competition from within.

When the WC is over, the blooding of Ryan, Ruddock, Murray, McAllister, Nagle etc should be imminent. I think it would also help if we brought in someone with no provincial ties. A coach with experience in a province is going to have relationships with certain players.

Dempsey

tolosenc wrote: »

Yes, couple means 2. In the last 24 months, we have been awful. In fact, we were awful in the 2009 6N.

Couple means two years?? Thats news to me, must let the oxford dictionary know too.

I havent defended performances since then so I dont know why you feel the need to give me a reminder.

I said that deciding to sack him now before a game played in NZ is stupid, and it is. I'd bet that you'd be seething if Ireland have a great world cup because you'd have so much egg on your face, never mind the idea of winning the WC!

Fight_Night wrote: »

Winning a trophy 2 years ago is not enough to justify his employment. Nothing sensationalist about it, we've had 2 relatively poor years where we haven't done much. I don't have the exact stats but somebody posted them earlier and I think it was 8 wins and 18 losses since 2009.

As I said already, deciding that he should be sacked now regardless of world cup performances is stupid. I've watched the matches myself so there is no real need to be telling me stats.

Dempsey

GerM wrote: »

2 years and many games ago, Dempsey. I don't want any knee jerk reactions and DK should of course lead us into this WC but if it isn't a successful campaign it will have to come into consideration. Losing 11 of the last 16 matches is nowhere near good enough given the players that we have. Scotland have a far more successful win ratio over the same number of games. The same Scotland that is made up nearly entirely of Edinburgh and Glasgow players and plays possibly the worst rugby in the world.

I didnt say that he should be in charge regardless of world cup performances so I dont know why you have to say this to me.

GerM

Dempsey wrote: »

I didnt say that he should be in charge regardless of world cup performances so I dont know why you have to say this to me.

Should he be sacked after the world cup? No and to say he should be at this stage smacks of stupidity tbh

You appeared to be saying that he shouldn't be sacked even following a WC campaign.

DylanJM

Dempsey wrote: »

Couple means two years?? Thats news to me, must let the oxford dictionary know too.

I havent defended performances since then so I dont know why you feel the need to give me a reminder.

I said that deciding to sack him now before a game played in NZ is stupid, and it is. I'd bet that you'd be seething if Ireland have a great world cup because you'd have so much egg on your face, never mind the idea of winning the WC!



As I said already, deciding that he should be sacked now regardless of world cup performances is stupid. I've watched the matches myself so there is no real need to be telling me stats.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/couple

Couple: Two people or things of the same sort considered together



Sorry feeling a bit cheeky tonight. :pac:

Dempsey

DylanJM wrote: »

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/couple

Couple: Two people or things of the same sort considered together



Sorry feeling a bit cheeky tonight. :pac:

:facepalm

3 informal an indefinite small number
:[as pronoun] :
he hoped she’d be better in a couple of days
we got some eggs — would you like a couple?

I question your interpretation of the english language

kahf1_02

People, what is happening to Irish rugby? This isn't the Ireland I know. We seem to be cursed with bad luck prior to WC's. Kidney must stay. He could turn things around drastically in the WC, by reaching the semi's. Kidney is a smart man, he'll regroup and re-rally the troops and settle heads.

Dempsey

GerM wrote: »

You appeared to be saying that he shouldn't be sacked even following a WC campaign.

Dempsey wrote: »

Should he be sacked after the world cup? No and to say he should be at this stage smacks of stupidity tbh

Thats the key bit. Maybe I should have been clearer but I did mean deciding if he should be sacked after the world cup before the world cup is played.

DylanJM

Dempsey wrote: »

:facepalm


I question your interpretation of the english language

Touché, must concede defeat on that one.

I've always regarded a couple as referring to two though when talking about years.

GerM

DylanJM wrote: »

Touché, must concede defeat on that one.

I've always regarded a couple as referring to two though when talking about years.

You and the majority of the population.

tolosenc

Dempsey wrote: »

I havent defended performances since then so I dont know why you feel the need to give me a reminder.

So you're of the opinion that consistant under-performance is acceptable? Can you be my boss please? Not having any expectations to live up to would make my job a lot easier!

Dempsey wrote: »

I said that deciding to sack him now before a game played in NZ is stupid, and it is. I'd bet that you'd be seething if Ireland have a great world cup because you'd have so much egg on your face, never mind the idea of winning the WC!

I don't see why. He's been consistantly bad enough to merit getting the sack. The only thing that can happen in NZ is that all of this will be swept under the carpet by an OK performance.

We cannot forget, no matter how well we do in the WC, that he is a terrible coach at international level, or just under the new laws, where his W-D-L record is 10-1-18.

Chiorino

NufcNavan wrote: »

Grand Slams are worth nothing these days I suppose..

Considering it was Eddie O sullivan's team that won it.

NufcNavan

Fight_Night wrote: »

That was 2 years ago.

..And how many years between that one and the one before that??

NufcNavan

Chiorino wrote: »

Considering it was Eddie O sullivan's team that won it.

And it was Eddie O' Sullivan's team that constantly fell short against France until Kidney took over..

tolosenc

NufcNavan wrote: »

..And how many years between that one and the one before that??

OK, so O'Gara, Sexton or Kyle for starting FH?

Fishtits

Brendan97 wrote: »

After shocking performances from Ireland in the world cup warm-ups.
should declan kidney be sacked?

Usually I ignore silly posts, but this one caught my eye, so to speak.

Would the OP be so good as to inform us of his rugby experience - who he has played for, what level, who he has coached, what he has achieved etc etc.

PS how old he is...

I'm curious to know how he has decided that DK (who up till now, has won every competition his teams have entered) is suddenly not fit to manage our team.

Who would the OP suggest in his place? (Don't give me Jake White...)

That's the problem with giving kids internet access...

Bearcat

kahf1_02 wrote: »

People, what is happening to Irish rugby? This isn't the Ireland I know. We seem to be cursed with bad luck prior to WC's. Kidney must stay. He could turn things around drastically in the WC, by reaching the semi's. Kidney is a smart man, he'll regroup and re-rally the troops and settle heads.

We are goosed. I would be surprised if we even beat Italy. Woeful performance followed by another just opens the gates of folk demanding change in management.

GerM

Bearcat wrote: »

We are goosed. I would be surprised if we even beat Italy. Woeful performance followed by another just opens the gates of folk demanding change in management.

I think it was Hook who, unusually, made a half decent point on RTE. He said that if we don't have our strongest 15 on the pitch against Italy, we're in serious danger of losing to them. It's a pretty fair point; Italy aren't useless by a long shot. They're our last game in the pool stages and there's a decent chance that we might have a few injuries. We're already down one of our starting team. If we were to lose Mike Ross it would be a seriously difficult match for us. I have no faith in our backs to open them up at this stage regardless of who is at 10. I would seriously advocate Paddy Wallace starting at 12 against them though.

CatFromHue

Bearcat wrote: »

I would be surprised if we even beat Italy.

Why? We haven't lost to them in years! A near first choice Italian 15 went down to the Scots last week by 23 to 12. Our second/third choice team also went down to the Scots but only by a last min try!

You do know we beat them in Italy at the start of the 6 Nations! Sometimes I feel like it's a competition to see who can be the most pessimistic!

Fight_Night

CatFromHue wrote: »

Why? We haven't lost to them in years! A near first choice Italian 15 went down to the Scots last week by 23 to 12. Our second/third choice team also went down to the Scots but only by a last min try!

You do know we beat them in Italy at the start of the 6 Nations! Sometimes I feel like it's a competition to see who can be the most pessimistic!

We struggled to beat Georgia in 07 and I'd rate Italy higher than Georgia. You should never give a team too much respect but Italy are not bad and tbh I think they deserved to beat us in the six nations this year.

Hermy

Fishtits wrote: »

...has won every competition his teams have entered...

Not sure how many Heineken Cups he's entered but I'm pretty sure he's only won two of them.

sxt

NufcNavan wrote: »

And it was Eddie O' Sullivan's team that constantly fell short against France until Kidney took over..

except for one game, they still do constantly fall short against france

LuckyLloyd

If we end up in a WC Semi he should not be sacked.
If we bust out in the group stages he should be sacked.
If we lose in the Quarter Finals it really depends on the manner of the performances involved.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I voted yes but a good WC could save him

By that I mean we can't just beat the USA Italy and Russia being beaten by Australians and South Africa and pat ourselves for a job well done. That isn't doing well.

Getting a semi-final spot or beating a big team is important imo

sting60

CUTE WHORISM ,MAYBE IF NOT kIDNEY OUT.BOD IS NOT PLAYING ALSO .

Hagz

Under Kidney, the Irish team has won 19/33 games. They lost 13 and drew 1.
That means Kidney's win percentage is around 57%.

To give you a comparison, Warren Gatland has a win percentage of bang on 50%.

However, Kidney has played the Sanzar teams a combined 7 times, whereas Gatland has come across them 13 times.

If we are to keep things strictly in the 6nations area, i.e. only games against England, Italy, Wales, France and Scotland; then Kidney maintains a win percentage of 57%, whereas Gatland's is 63%. However, take away these warm-up games and Kidney has a win percentage of 73%.

Make of that what you will:pac:

tolosenc

Importantly, since the laws of the game were changed:

Australia - D
Fiji - W
South Africa - W
Italy - W
France - L
England - W
Wales - W
Scotland - L
(Barbarians - L)
New Zealand - L
(Maori - L)
Australia - L
South Africa - L
Samoa - W
New Zealand - L
Argentina - W
Italy - W
France - L
Wales - L
Scotland - W
England - W
Scotland - L
France - L
France - L
England - L

40% win rate. In only 1 of those games did we actually play well.

Kidney cannot hack it in the new game.