Ireland single Mothers reviled, in US it's dead beat Dads.

wild_cat · 19-08-2011 01:42AM

Skunkle wrote: »

I'm just responding to the OP and mentioning the fact that out of all the single mothers I know every one of them lives with a partner. Perhaps you mistook what I said for "I hate single mothers, they are a drain on society, everyone I know is scamming the system and Its a big deal, why wont someone do something about this". Lets not lose the run of ourselves yeah ?

Sorry I'm sleepy but I'm used to reading the latter hogwash you just posted in relation to your previous post. My bad.

mikemac · 19-08-2011 01:43AM

CorkMan wrote: »

I'd glad my partner and I saw that and sorted out the situation pronto.

What did you do?
Call in social services?

Obelisk · 19-08-2011 01:43AM

I call shenanigans. Single mothers boo-hoo.

Any of the single mothers I know is by chance and consent, all they care about is usually money and they had it great for a long time.

It's the single fathers who are worse off if ya ask me.

Fathers have no rights in this country, I know several who are paying maintenance (out of welfare) and still fighting to see the kids.

Restricted access at best either way, some are paying and don't even get to see the child. Iin every case I've seen the women are pushing for more money & minimum access, usually out of spite.

It's sickening

hatrickpatrick · 19-08-2011 01:45AM

Until custody courts start treating men and women equally, these arguments are meaningless.
I wonder how many "deadbeat dads" would love to spend time with their kids but are being denied it by vindictive exes? We all know at least one guy this has happened to.

mackg · 19-08-2011 01:48AM

looky loo wrote: »

Why doesnt the social welfare deduct payments from these runaway dads for the upkeep of their children?...seems a good solution to me.

My sister split from her fella recently, together around 12 years, they are both on the same money, my sister on the back to education and him on the dole. The kid lives with her and she receives e20 towards everything from her ex. Yes that's e5 a week. 1 pint and a pack of bacon fries per week. Not even a 9 pack of decent toilet roll per week.

Why a portion of his dole e20 minimum doesn't go to the kid is beyond me. It would be piss easy to implement. Has this issue ever even been seriously raised. Maybe single mothers wouldn't have to receive so much SW if some of the extra need was provided from the dole/salary of the father.

Bipolar Joe · 19-08-2011 01:48AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Until custody courts start treating men and women equally, these arguments are meaningless.
I wonder how many "deadbeat dads" would love to spend time with their kids but are being denied it by vindictive exes? We all know at least one guy this has happened to.

My Mother disappeared off the face of the planet when I was about a year old, my Sister's and I ended up living with my Pop and Aunt for five years. All of a sudden she shows up, packs us into a taxi and next thing I know we're in England. Dad wasn't allowed to see us, she got full custody, it took five years before he could, all because the courts favour the Mothers instantly. It's a ridiculously crooked system.

wild_cat · 19-08-2011 01:50AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Until custody courts start treating men and women equally, these arguments are meaningless.
I wonder how many "deadbeat dads" would love to spend time with their kids but are being denied it by vindictive exes? We all know at least one guy this has happened to.

Jesus I'm glad I already don't want children. Reading that would turn you off having children just in case something went wrong relationship wise in the future.

jill_valentine · 19-08-2011 01:51AM

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

How misogynistic is Ireland when it comes to child custody battles between a father and a mother? On issues with children in Ireland a little bad press for single mothers is a small price for women to pay for the massive advantage their gender affords them when it comes to custody. Why don't we hear more women calling for gender equality when it comes to issues where they hold the advantage?

I don't think the two things are necessarily unrelated. If single mothers get - and/or are seen to get - preferential treatment in the courts, then they're not going to be very popular afterwards. Ultimately, that's unfair to hard working, hard pressed single mums as well as to the dads who want to be treated fairly by family law.

So yeah. I'd like to see more done to ensure that "deadbeat" dads live up to their responsibilities, just as I'd like to see more done to protect the rights of good dads to have access to their children. It's in everybody's interest to work out a fair and balanced system.

looky loo · 19-08-2011 01:52AM

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

My Mother disappeared off the face of the planet when I was about a year old, my Sister's and I ended up living with my Pop and Aunt for five years. All of a sudden she shows up, packs us into a taxi and next thing I know we're in England. Dad wasn't allowed to see us, she got full custody, it took five years before he could, all because the courts favour the Mothers instantly. It's a ridiculously crooked system.

Isnt that kidnapping? Sorry that happened to you awful. I agree men and women should be treated equally in the whole child caring/custody/visitation argument, but the only way you are going to get that is by lobbying the local td, get him to bring it to government and try to bring it into to law.

Bipolar Joe · 19-08-2011 01:54AM

looky loo wrote: »

Isnt that kidnapping? Sorry that happened to you awful. I agree men and women should be treated equally in the whole child caring/custody/visitation argument, but the only way you are going to get that is by lobbying the local td, get him to bring it to government and try to bring it into to law.

It wasn't classed as kidnapping because she's the Mother. A percentage of child support goes to the courts and so on, so long as they're getting paid, who cares, right?

hinault · 19-08-2011 01:54AM

CorkMan wrote: »

I used to work for the social before, some of my duties were to investigate instances of fraud. I did call into houses where there was evidence of an adult male living there, other times not.

In many places where there was no evidence of an adult male present, I saw loads of cans on the floor, toddlers screaming because they weren't tended to by their mothers, burnt pizzas in the oven. Disgrace TBH. In one case all of the above was happening in the house. Before I entered the house, I was waiting for the mother to arrive back outside the door, whilst hearing a toddler screaming. The mother came down the road drunk out of her skull talking on the phone. Within a space of about 10 feet, she was stumbling side to side.

The other investigator and I entered the house, the stench was unreal. The toddler has not been cleaned, there was gone off food rotting on the counter. Not even in the bin. I'd glad my partner and I saw that and sorted out the situation pronto.

Interesting.

Do SW staff have to witness the presence of an adult male living in the same house, in order to prosecute?

Or can a neighbour report the presence with of a male in the house with supporting photograhic evidence to the DSW, to commence a prosecution?

looky loo · 19-08-2011 01:57AM

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

It wasn't classed as kidnapping because she's the Mother. A percentage of child support goes to the courts and so on, so long as they're getting paid, who cares, right?

Playing devils advocate here, dont have kids, so its no skin off my nose. No point getting pissy with me..

hatrickpatrick · 19-08-2011 02:00AM

wild_cat wrote: »

Jesus I'm glad I already don't want children. Reading that would turn you off having children just in case something went wrong relationship wise in the future.

The more I read about how easily vindictive ex wives can screw men over in divorce court, the more convinced I am that while I want to meet a girl and stay with her forever, I don't ever want to sign that wretched contract, at least unless they sort this out.
Seems to me the terms are literally,
"You must stay together forever*"

Small print:
If you're the woman and you choose to leave, you can take everything with you.
If you're the man and you choose to leave, you must give up everything.

Bipolar Joe · 19-08-2011 02:00AM

looky loo wrote: »

Playing devils advocate here, dont have kids, so its no skin off my nose. No point getting pissy with me..

I wasn't getting pissy, sorry if it seemed like that

.

Pompey Magnus · 19-08-2011 02:02AM

looky loo wrote: »

Title for another thread perhaps, this one is about the fathers that dont input on their childs life.

It is relevant if the State is being accused of discriminating against women because every so often John Waters or Kevin Myers have the nerve to write an article criticising that minority of single mothers who take advantage of the system. This is just a silly claim.

If a journalist wants to write an article condemning dead beat dads then there is nothing to stop them and not too many men would claim they were being discriminated against, in fact most reasonable men would agree with the sentiments. I don't see why criticism of some single mothers (no-one criticises all single mothers btw) should be seen as any different.

Most single mothers are great mothers to their kids and they should be vocally condemning the bad eggs among them, not jumping to their defence in some sort of siege mentality and lashing out at people who just point out the abuses of a few.

hatrickpatrick · 19-08-2011 02:03AM

PS: Anyone know how easily the word "misogyny" is thrown around whenever women are criticized about something like this?
Funny, misogyny came out just fine. Misandry is underlined in red, my computer apparently doesn't know that word

hatrickpatrick · 19-08-2011 02:04AM

looky loo wrote: »

Title for another thread perhaps, this one is about the fathers that dont input on their childs life.

And how many don't input because they're not allowed to input?

I'm sorry but if we address one side of this coin we have to address the other.

looky loo · 19-08-2011 02:06AM

I dont have kids so I probably have no right to have an opinion on this but this thread has made me sad.

sad for the single mothers who struggle, who try to work, who dont take money off the state, and for the men who dont care.

sad for the men who dont get to see their kids when its all a tug of war over money and revenge on each other.

But most of all I'm sad for the kids....stuck in the middle of it all.

CorkMan · 19-08-2011 02:22AM

hinault wrote: »

Interesting.

Do SW staff have to witness the presence of an adult male living in the same house, in order to prosecute?

Or can a neighbour report the presence with of a male in the house with supporting photograhic evidence to the DSW, to commence a prosecution?

If the social (I don't work with them anymore) see a lot of male clothes in the bedrooms drawer for example, that would be enough. Photographic evidence could be enough, if for example the fella had work gear on and he entered the house multiple days on the photo. It'd obviously be hard to get a photo of him inside the house.

BTW, @ the comment made at me in the previous page, I was working with the social then, so we took the toddler out of the place straight away.

Killer Wench · 19-08-2011 02:24AM

I don't think that we should be comparing Ireland and the US on this issue because we have two distinctly different perceptions of public welfare and entitlements.

I believe it is much more accepted in Ireland to receive personal funding from your government. In the US, those who receive public assistance carry a heavy stigma against them. People are ashamed to apply for food stamps and feel that they have failed their families if they receive help. And those who are financially able to support themselves feel bitter that they are supporting individuals who should be taking care of themselves. Thus, when there is a woman on welfare with children not being supported by the fathers, people feel enraged that they are supporting the child of a man who should be supporting his family.

Witchie · 19-08-2011 02:27AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The more I read about how easily vindictive ex wives can screw men over in divorce court, the more convinced I am that while I want to meet a girl and stay with her forever, I don't ever want to sign that wretched contract, at least unless they sort this out.
Seems to me the terms are literally,
"You must stay together forever*"

Small print:
If you're the woman and you choose to leave, you can take everything with you.
If you're the man and you choose to leave, you must give up everything.

Its not always the case. When I showed my ex the door he didnt bother with his kids and only for me bringing them (along with a packed lunch coz he was too lazy to feed them) to his house for a few hours every week, he wouldnt have seen his then 5 & 2 yr old sons.

Then he moved away and didnt see them for almost 3 months until I sent a solicitors letter telling him I was filing for maintenance. He then demanded that he get to see them every 2nd weekend, which he got with no bother from me.

Eventually he got another girl pregnant and moved even further away from his sons and started only seeing them once a month. He went on to marry her and have 2 more kids and despite it being written into our divorce that he see them every 2nd weekend, he doesnt bother. Only once in 10 years have I denied him access, and that was because he text my eldest the day before he decided he was going to see them and I had made plans for that weekend and was not dropping them just coz he decided at the last minute to be a dad.

I encouraged my sons and even paid for them to travel by bus twice this summer to go spend a week with their family down the country and always make them call their sisters just that and not step-sisters. I always make sure that we get them birthday and christmas presents (including their dad and step-mom) I have done all I can to maintain the relationship with their dad, including varying the maintenance order to €0 when he was on sick leave from work last year and not able to pay anything.

Im a softie. I should be a bitch and get him to step up but all I can think of is that will leave 3 little girls with less and I cant do that.

Richard Hillman · 19-08-2011 02:31AM

Always use condoms

mackg · 19-08-2011 02:34AM

When it comes down to it the fairest way to do it is after separation both parents have as close to equal as possible, in terms of both rights and responsibilities when it comes to the kids.

Failure to allow access to the child should be dealt with the same as failure to pay maintenance as they are essentially both breaking the same agreement. No one should "get" the kids in a separation (except in exceptional circumstances). Just because two people are no longer in a relationship with each other it does not change their roles in their relationship with their kids. It simply changes some of the practicalities.

Also in terms of the parent who the kids do not live with there should be a MINIMUM amount of access hours.Once the fathers that want to see their kids get their access it's necessary to tackle the guys who go around knocking up half the girls in town and never being a father to even one of their kids.

gcgirl · 19-08-2011 02:36AM

Witchie wrote: »

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The more I read about how easily vindictive ex wives can screw men over in divorce court, the more convinced I am that while I want to meet a girl and stay with her forever, I don't ever want to sign that wretched contract, at least unless they sort this out.
Seems to me the terms are literally,
"You must stay together forever*"

Small print:
If you're the woman and you choose to leave, you can take everything with you.
If you're the man and you choose to leave, you must give up everything.

Its not always the case. When I showed my ex the door he didnt bother with his kids and only for me bringing them (along with a packed lunch coz he was too lazy to feed them) to his house for a few hours every week, he wouldnt have seen his then 5 & 2 yr old sons.

Then he moved away and didnt see them for almost 3 months until I sent a solicitors letter telling him I was filing for maintenance. He then demanded that he get to see them every 2nd weekend, which he got with no bother from me.

Eventually he got another girl pregnant and moved even further away from his sons and started only seeing them once a month. He went on to marry her and have 2 more kids and despite it being written into our divorce that he see them every 2nd weekend, he doesnt bother. Only once in 10 years have I denied him access, and that was because he text my eldest the day before he decided he was going to see them and I had made plans for that weekend and was not dropping them just coz he decided at the last minute to be a dad.

I encouraged my sons and even paid for them to travel by bus twice this summer to go spend a week with their family down the country and always make them call their sisters just that and not step-sisters. I always make sure that we get them birthday and christmas presents (including their dad and step-mom) I have done all I can to maintain the relationship with their dad, including varying the maintenance order to €0 when he was on sick leave from work last year and not able to pay anything.

Im a softie. I should be a bitch and get him to step up but all I can think of is that will leave 3 little girls with less and I cant do that.

sounds a lot like my story!
Being a parent is 24/7/365 till you outlive them.
Tomorrow they are going to their dads brothers wedding I paid for everything he did not pay a cent towards their clothes.
And his gonna spend the one day in every 2 weeks tomorrow.

Witchie · 19-08-2011 02:46AM

gcgirl wrote: »

sounds a lot like my story!
Being a parent is 24/7/365 till you outlive them.
Tomorrow they are going to their dads brothers wedding I paid for everything he did not pay a cent towards their clothes.
And his gonna spend the one day in every 2 weeks tomorrow.

Its a head wreck! I often wonder how their step-mother could put up with a guy who was so neglectful of his children never mind have 3 more with him. What if that marriage fails too? Will she be sure he will look after her girls?

I couldnt go out with a guy who if he had kids, wasnt a real dad to them unless the mother was stopping him from being so.

Eric Cartman · 19-08-2011 02:55AM

it takes two to tango , its not all the fault of the fathers, fathers outside of marraige have so few rights here , why would you pay maintainence if you cant see your kids. Also the US doesnt have the problem of women having children to claim more social welfare

gcgirl · 19-08-2011 02:58AM

Witchie wrote: »

gcgirl wrote: »

sounds a lot like my story!
Being a parent is 24/7/365 till you outlive them.
Tomorrow they are going to their dads brothers wedding I paid for everything he did not pay a cent towards their clothes.
And his gonna spend the one day in every 2 weeks tomorrow.

Its a head wreck! I often wonder how their step-mother could put up with a guy who was so neglectful of his children never mind have 3 more with him. What if that marriage fails too? Will she be sure he will look after her girls?

I couldnt go out with a guy who if he had kids, wasnt a real dad to them unless the mother was stopping him from being so.

Its been a harrowing 4.5 yrs for my kids, I know loads a great dads who would do anything for their kids but some guys just dont have any regard for their kids, his wife has not really tried to bond with the kids I kind of sussed it early the kids pictures were taking off the walls in his house and it was just him & her and when they got married they did not get invited, on the day he takes them out "if" they go to his house she stays up in the bedroom with their son, its a funny set up !

hatrickpatrick · 19-08-2011 03:56AM

Witchie wrote: »

Its not always the case. When I showed my ex the door he didnt bother with his kids and only for me bringing them (along with a packed lunch coz he was too lazy to feed them) to his house for a few hours every week, he wouldnt have seen his then 5 & 2 yr old sons.

Then he moved away and didnt see them for almost 3 months until I sent a solicitors letter telling him I was filing for maintenance. He then demanded that he get to see them every 2nd weekend, which he got with no bother from me.

Eventually he got another girl pregnant and moved even further away from his sons and started only seeing them once a month. He went on to marry her and have 2 more kids and despite it being written into our divorce that he see them every 2nd weekend, he doesnt bother. Only once in 10 years have I denied him access, and that was because he text my eldest the day before he decided he was going to see them and I had made plans for that weekend and was not dropping them just coz he decided at the last minute to be a dad.

I encouraged my sons and even paid for them to travel by bus twice this summer to go spend a week with their family down the country and always make them call their sisters just that and not step-sisters. I always make sure that we get them birthday and christmas presents (including their dad and step-mom) I have done all I can to maintain the relationship with their dad, including varying the maintenance order to €0 when he was on sick leave from work last year and not able to pay anything.

Im a softie. I should be a bitch and get him to step up but all I can think of is that will leave 3 little girls with less and I cant do that.

I'm very sorry to hear this incredibly sad story

Please understand I wasn't tarring all women or defending all men, but bashing the system itself which claims "equality before the law" but gives women preferential treatment.

In general when a marriage breaks up, the man is expected to keep paying for the party while getting absolutely no guarantee of access in return. When was the last time you heard of alimony being awarded to a man?
If both the man and the woman work full time why should either of them pay for the other's continued lifestyle if the other CHOOSES to dump them? IMO if it must exist it should be for the person who got dumped, not the person who chose to bail. The majority of all divorces are initiated by the woman, and the majority of maintenance is pad by guys.

It just doesn't seem even remotely like "equality" to me. I'm only in my 20s and just from the media I have already lost faith in the legal entity of marriage

That's pretty sad if you ask me. Things drastically need to change.

Ireland single Mothers reviled, in US it's dead beat Dads.

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