Ireland single Mothers reviled, in US it's dead beat Dads.

sophia25

Is it a sign of how misogynistic Ireland is, that in Ireland its single mothers left holding the baby that get all the flack, whilst in other countries it's the deadbeat dads that get the bad press? Why do we moan about the state having to provide houses for single mothers instead of insisting the fathers bear some of the financial pain? If fathers were forced to pay the real cost for their kids (including the cost of childcare, be it paid or through loss of earnings), then taxpayers wouldn't be left feeling resentful of a mother who has been let down!

joshrogan

No Roma Gypsies, Travellers, Foreigners, Dole Scroungers, Bankers, Politicians and Thugs/Criminals get 99% of the flack.

Sergeant

Both parents should be financially responsible for bringing a child into the world. Accidents happen, but "the state" shouldn't have to act as some sort of generous aunt.

But runaway fathers should be held responsible for their hand (and other extremities) in the child being born. Totally agree.

Cill Dara Abu

A mother that has been let down???

It takes two to tango OP

hinault

sophia25 wrote: »

Is it a sign of how misogynistic Ireland is, that in Ireland its single mothers left holding the baby that get all the flack, whilst in other countries it's the deadbeat dads that get the bad press? Why do we moan about the state having to provide houses for single mothers instead of insisting the fathers bear some of the financial pain? If fathers were forced to pay the real cost for their kids (including the cost of childcare, be it paid or through loss of earnings), then taxpayers wouldn't be left feeling resentful of a mother who has been let down!

I think we should slash unmarried mothers allowance AND force the fathers to pay their way.

Both parties must be held responsible for their actions.
You need a licence to keep a dog................

policarp

What is a single mother?
Is she a widow? Is she a deserted wife? Is she a single mother by choice? Or is she a part time single mother?

mikemac

I don't know a lot about the US court system

But I hope it's better then family law in Ireland where men can be cut out their child's life and money can be used as a bargaining chip to get access

Every case is different but granting custody to the mother seems to be the default judgement

MungBean

I know quite a few "single mothers" and every single one of them is living with a partner. They only seem to be "single" when it comes to welfare. And anyway what do ya expect these dead beat dads to do ? Hand over some of their dole ?

Witchie

Aye Sergeant I agree but what happens if that dad goes off and has 3 more children and then cant support the previous 2 whom he barely bothers with, except for once a month?

Its hard as the mum of those 2 first children to make his 3 other kids suffer by being demanding. :mad:

It wasnt so bad when I was working but have been out of work a year now and have just had my dole payments cut so despite finding it impossible to get a job in this country, I am now expected to pay my mortgage, rear 2 teenage sons, run a car and household on €247 a week. Getting very fed up of single mum bashing when I have worked all my life and only now need some help.

Thinking of moving abroad but the kids wont leave the dad they barely have contact with. So frustrating.

Witchie

Skunkle wrote: »

I know quite a few "single mothers" and every single one of them is living with a partner. They only seem to be "single" when it comes to welfare. And anyway what do ya expect these dead beat dads to do ? Hand over some of their dole ?

Not one of the single mothers I know live with a partner. I dont either. I see my bf at weekends and he contributes in no way to my household.

looky loo

Why doesnt the social welfare deduct payments from these runaway dads for the upkeep of their children?...seems a good solution to me.

Bipolar Joe

Witchie wrote: »

Not one of the single mothers I know live with a partner. I dont either. I see my bf at weekends and he contributes in no way to my household.

It still happens extremely often, I know several myself. And yes, custody pretty much always goes to the Mother. The courts and whatnot get a cut of the money the Dad is giving to the Mother, and that's why it's always pushed to go for more.

Witchie

looky loo wrote: »

Why doesnt the social welfare deduct payments from these runaway dads for the upkeep of their children?...seems a good solution to me.

But if they are on SW themselves and have more children living with them, how do you deduct more money from them?

hinault

Witchie wrote: »

Aye Sergeant I agree but what happens if that dad goes off and has 3 more children and then cant support the previous 2 whom he barely bothers with, except for once a month?

Its hard as the mum of those 2 first children to make his 3 other kids suffer by being demanding. :mad:

It wasnt so bad when I was working but have been out of work a year now and have just had my dole payments cut so despite finding it impossible to get a job in this country, I am now expected to pay my mortgage, rear 2 teenage sons, run a car and household on €247 a week. Getting very fed up of single mum bashing when I have worked all my life and only now need some help.

Thinking of moving abroad but the kids wont leave the dad they barely have contact with. So frustrating.

The State should go after the father of your children in my view. He is as responsible as you as are for those children.

He should be also made pay for those other kids too.

Can't stand people who are derelict in their responsibilities.

wild_cat

Skunkle wrote: »

I know quite a few "single mothers" and every single one of them is living with a partner. They only seem to be "single" when it comes to welfare. And anyway what do ya expect these dead beat dads to do ? Hand over some of their dole ?

If it's such a big deal report them....

Easily solved like....

looky loo

Witchie wrote: »

But if they are on SW themselves and have more children living with them, how do you deduct more money from them?

If its written in law that they provide for their children..all their children.

wild_cat

looky loo wrote: »

Why doesnt the social welfare deduct payments from these runaway dads for the upkeep of their children?...seems a good solution to me.

I don't understand this either.

It should automatically be removed via tax from their pay check or out of their dole.

sophia25

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

A mother that has been let down???

It takes two to tango OP

It does, but the point is in Ireland there is constant single mother thrashing and fathers who just abdicate responsibility are barely acknowledged.:(

hinault

Witchie wrote: »

But if they are on SW themselves and have more children living with them, how do you deduct more money from them?

Make them work for their welfare and then deduct the money due for their kids.

If they don't work for SW, they get no SW.

Amhran Nua

And on the same front page, another thread about the excessive benefits garnered by single mothers...

Ireland..? This is After Hours!!

/kicks people in the chest

strobe

sophia25 wrote: »

Is it a sign of how misogynistic Ireland is, that in Ireland its single mothers left holding the baby that get all the flack, whilst in other countries it's the deadbeat dads that get the bad press?

No to be honest.

I don't think I have ever met one single person in my entire life that has criticised a single mother taking government assistance and then when questioned on the father said 'ahh no leave the Dad alone, he's doing nothing wrong, it's entirely and exclusively that bitch of a woman who is the problem"... Not once. Not ever.

Have you, really?

I see no sign of misogyny or sexism.

MungBean

Witchie wrote: »

Not one of the single mothers I know live with a partner. I dont either. I see my bf at weekends and he contributes in no way to my household.

Didnt mean it to be a generalisation its just something that struck me. I know a few and without exception they all live with partners. Some of them the fathers of the children and others not. I think the bad rap that single mothers get is because of peole like these. Any mother who isnt married seems (especially when already in receipt of welfare) to stick themselves down as a lone parent.

Of course there is single mothers who like yourself are living alone and entirely deserving of the help and I meant no offence to ya. .

Bipolar Joe

strobe wrote: »

No to be honest.

I don't think I have ever met one single person in my entire life that has criticised a single mother taking government assistance and then when questioned on the father said 'ahh no leave the Dad alone, he's doing nothing wrong, it's entirely and exclusively that bitch of a woman who is the problem"... Not once. Not ever.

Have you, really?

I see no sign of misogyny or sexism.

Strobe, this is how misogyny works:

I am a lady and I'm not getting my way. YOU ARE A MISOGYNIST.

You know what I'm sick of? Everything.

dsmythy

sophia25 wrote: »

Is it a sign of how misogynistic Ireland is, that in Ireland its single mothers left holding the baby that get all the flack, whilst in other countries it's the deadbeat dads that get the bad press? Why do we moan about the state having to provide houses for single mothers instead of insisting the fathers bear some of the financial pain? If fathers were forced to pay the real cost for their kids (including the cost of childcare, be it paid or through loss of earnings), then taxpayers wouldn't be left feeling resentful of a mother who has been let down!

I wonder how American welfare differs from the Irish version.

RichieC

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

A mother that has been let down???

It takes two to tango OP

Yes and one to walk away.

MungBean

wild_cat wrote: »

If it's such a big deal report them....

Easily solved like....

I'm just responding to the OP and mentioning the fact that out of all the single mothers I know every one of them lives with a partner. Perhaps you mistook what I said for "I hate single mothers, they are a drain on society, everyone I know is scamming the system and Its a big deal, why wont someone do something about this". Lets not lose the run of ourselves yeah ?

Pompey Magnus

sophia25 wrote: »

Is it a sign of how misogynistic Ireland is, that in Ireland its single mothers left holding the baby that get all the flack, whilst in other countries it's the deadbeat dads that get the bad press?

How misogynistic is Ireland when it comes to child custody battles between a father and a mother? On issues with children in Ireland a little bad press for single mothers is a small price for women to pay for the massive advantage their gender affords them when it comes to custody. Why don't we hear more women calling for gender equality when it comes to issues where they hold the advantage?

Bipolar Joe

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

How misogynistic is Ireland when it comes to child custody battles between a father and a mother? On issues with children in Ireland a little bad press for single mothers is a small price for women to pay for the massive advantage their gender affords them when it comes to custody. Why don't we hear more women calling for gender equality when it comes to issues where they hold the advantage?

Something I learned in Uni was the equal rights does not mean equal rights, it means better rights for that person / group of people. Apparently no one wants equal rights, everyone just wants to be better off than everyone else.

CorkMan

I used to work for the social before, some of my duties were to investigate instances of fraud. I did call into houses where there was evidence of an adult male living there, other times not.

In many places where there was no evidence of an adult male present, I saw loads of cans on the floor, toddlers screaming because they weren't tended to by their mothers, burnt pizzas in the oven. Disgrace TBH. In one case all of the above was happening in the house. Before I entered the house, I was waiting for the mother to arrive back outside the door, whilst hearing a toddler screaming. The mother came down the road drunk out of her skull talking on the phone. Within a space of about 10 feet, she was stumbling side to side.

The other investigator and I entered the house, the stench was unreal. The toddler has not been cleaned, there was gone off food rotting on the counter. Not even in the bin. I'd glad my partner and I saw that and sorted out the situation pronto.

looky loo

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

How misogynistic is Ireland when it comes to child custody battles between a father and a mother? On issues with children in Ireland a little bad press for single mothers is a small price for women to pay for the massive advantage their gender affords them when it comes to custody. Why don't we hear more women calling for gender equality when it comes to issues where they hold the advantage?

Title for another thread perhaps, this one is about the fathers that dont input on their childs life.

AnonoBoy

Paging Kevin Myers. Kevin Myers to the Single Mother's thread please, Kevin Myers!

wild_cat

Skunkle wrote: »

I'm just responding to the OP and mentioning the fact that out of all the single mothers I know every one of them lives with a partner. Perhaps you mistook what I said for "I hate single mothers, they are a drain on society, everyone I know is scamming the system and Its a big deal, why wont someone do something about this". Lets not lose the run of ourselves yeah ?

Sorry I'm sleepy but I'm used to reading the latter hogwash you just posted in relation to your previous post. My bad.

mikemac

CorkMan wrote: »

I'd glad my partner and I saw that and sorted out the situation pronto.

What did you do?
Call in social services?

Obelisk

I call shenanigans. Single mothers boo-hoo.

Any of the single mothers I know is by chance and consent, all they care about is usually money and they had it great for a long time.

It's the single fathers who are worse off if ya ask me.

Fathers have no rights in this country, I know several who are paying maintenance (out of welfare) and still fighting to see the kids.

Restricted access at best either way, some are paying and don't even get to see the child. Iin every case I've seen the women are pushing for more money & minimum access, usually out of spite.

It's sickening

hatrickpatrick

Until custody courts start treating men and women equally, these arguments are meaningless.
I wonder how many "deadbeat dads" would love to spend time with their kids but are being denied it by vindictive exes? We all know at least one guy this has happened to.

mackg

looky loo wrote: »

Why doesnt the social welfare deduct payments from these runaway dads for the upkeep of their children?...seems a good solution to me.

My sister split from her fella recently, together around 12 years, they are both on the same money, my sister on the back to education and him on the dole. The kid lives with her and she receives e20 towards everything from her ex. Yes that's e5 a week. 1 pint and a pack of bacon fries per week. Not even a 9 pack of decent toilet roll per week.

Why a portion of his dole e20 minimum doesn't go to the kid is beyond me. It would be piss easy to implement. Has this issue ever even been seriously raised. Maybe single mothers wouldn't have to receive so much SW if some of the extra need was provided from the dole/salary of the father.

Bipolar Joe

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Until custody courts start treating men and women equally, these arguments are meaningless.
I wonder how many "deadbeat dads" would love to spend time with their kids but are being denied it by vindictive exes? We all know at least one guy this has happened to.

My Mother disappeared off the face of the planet when I was about a year old, my Sister's and I ended up living with my Pop and Aunt for five years. All of a sudden she shows up, packs us into a taxi and next thing I know we're in England. Dad wasn't allowed to see us, she got full custody, it took five years before he could, all because the courts favour the Mothers instantly. It's a ridiculously crooked system.

wild_cat

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Until custody courts start treating men and women equally, these arguments are meaningless.
I wonder how many "deadbeat dads" would love to spend time with their kids but are being denied it by vindictive exes? We all know at least one guy this has happened to.

Jesus I'm glad I already don't want children. Reading that would turn you off having children just in case something went wrong relationship wise in the future.

jill_valentine

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

How misogynistic is Ireland when it comes to child custody battles between a father and a mother? On issues with children in Ireland a little bad press for single mothers is a small price for women to pay for the massive advantage their gender affords them when it comes to custody. Why don't we hear more women calling for gender equality when it comes to issues where they hold the advantage?

I don't think the two things are necessarily unrelated. If single mothers get - and/or are seen to get - preferential treatment in the courts, then they're not going to be very popular afterwards. Ultimately, that's unfair to hard working, hard pressed single mums as well as to the dads who want to be treated fairly by family law.

So yeah. I'd like to see more done to ensure that "deadbeat" dads live up to their responsibilities, just as I'd like to see more done to protect the rights of good dads to have access to their children. It's in everybody's interest to work out a fair and balanced system.

looky loo

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

My Mother disappeared off the face of the planet when I was about a year old, my Sister's and I ended up living with my Pop and Aunt for five years. All of a sudden she shows up, packs us into a taxi and next thing I know we're in England. Dad wasn't allowed to see us, she got full custody, it took five years before he could, all because the courts favour the Mothers instantly. It's a ridiculously crooked system.

Isnt that kidnapping? Sorry that happened to you awful. I agree men and women should be treated equally in the whole child caring/custody/visitation argument, but the only way you are going to get that is by lobbying the local td, get him to bring it to government and try to bring it into to law.

Bipolar Joe

looky loo wrote: »

Isnt that kidnapping? Sorry that happened to you awful. I agree men and women should be treated equally in the whole child caring/custody/visitation argument, but the only way you are going to get that is by lobbying the local td, get him to bring it to government and try to bring it into to law.

It wasn't classed as kidnapping because she's the Mother. A percentage of child support goes to the courts and so on, so long as they're getting paid, who cares, right?

hinault

CorkMan wrote: »

I used to work for the social before, some of my duties were to investigate instances of fraud. I did call into houses where there was evidence of an adult male living there, other times not.

In many places where there was no evidence of an adult male present, I saw loads of cans on the floor, toddlers screaming because they weren't tended to by their mothers, burnt pizzas in the oven. Disgrace TBH. In one case all of the above was happening in the house. Before I entered the house, I was waiting for the mother to arrive back outside the door, whilst hearing a toddler screaming. The mother came down the road drunk out of her skull talking on the phone. Within a space of about 10 feet, she was stumbling side to side.

The other investigator and I entered the house, the stench was unreal. The toddler has not been cleaned, there was gone off food rotting on the counter. Not even in the bin. I'd glad my partner and I saw that and sorted out the situation pronto.

Interesting.

Do SW staff have to witness the presence of an adult male living in the same house, in order to prosecute?

Or can a neighbour report the presence with of a male in the house with supporting photograhic evidence to the DSW, to commence a prosecution?

looky loo

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

It wasn't classed as kidnapping because she's the Mother. A percentage of child support goes to the courts and so on, so long as they're getting paid, who cares, right?

Playing devils advocate here, dont have kids, so its no skin off my nose. No point getting pissy with me..

hatrickpatrick

wild_cat wrote: »

Jesus I'm glad I already don't want children. Reading that would turn you off having children just in case something went wrong relationship wise in the future.

The more I read about how easily vindictive ex wives can screw men over in divorce court, the more convinced I am that while I want to meet a girl and stay with her forever, I don't ever want to sign that wretched contract, at least unless they sort this out.
Seems to me the terms are literally,
"You must stay together forever*"

Small print:
If you're the woman and you choose to leave, you can take everything with you.
If you're the man and you choose to leave, you must give up everything.

Bipolar Joe

looky loo wrote: »

Playing devils advocate here, dont have kids, so its no skin off my nose. No point getting pissy with me..

I wasn't getting pissy, sorry if it seemed like that .

Pompey Magnus

looky loo wrote: »

Title for another thread perhaps, this one is about the fathers that dont input on their childs life.

It is relevant if the State is being accused of discriminating against women because every so often John Waters or Kevin Myers have the nerve to write an article criticising that minority of single mothers who take advantage of the system. This is just a silly claim.

If a journalist wants to write an article condemning dead beat dads then there is nothing to stop them and not too many men would claim they were being discriminated against, in fact most reasonable men would agree with the sentiments. I don't see why criticism of some single mothers (no-one criticises all single mothers btw) should be seen as any different.

Most single mothers are great mothers to their kids and they should be vocally condemning the bad eggs among them, not jumping to their defence in some sort of siege mentality and lashing out at people who just point out the abuses of a few.

hatrickpatrick

PS: Anyone know how easily the word "misogyny" is thrown around whenever women are criticized about something like this?
Funny, misogyny came out just fine. Misandry is underlined in red, my computer apparently doesn't know that word

hatrickpatrick

looky loo wrote: »

Title for another thread perhaps, this one is about the fathers that dont input on their childs life.

And how many don't input because they're not allowed to input?

I'm sorry but if we address one side of this coin we have to address the other.

looky loo

I dont have kids so I probably have no right to have an opinion on this but this thread has made me sad.

sad for the single mothers who struggle, who try to work, who dont take money off the state, and for the men who dont care.

sad for the men who dont get to see their kids when its all a tug of war over money and revenge on each other.

But most of all I'm sad for the kids....stuck in the middle of it all.

CorkMan

hinault wrote: »

Interesting.

Do SW staff have to witness the presence of an adult male living in the same house, in order to prosecute?

Or can a neighbour report the presence with of a male in the house with supporting photograhic evidence to the DSW, to commence a prosecution?

If the social (I don't work with them anymore) see a lot of male clothes in the bedrooms drawer for example, that would be enough. Photographic evidence could be enough, if for example the fella had work gear on and he entered the house multiple days on the photo. It'd obviously be hard to get a photo of him inside the house.

BTW, @ the comment made at me in the previous page, I was working with the social then, so we took the toddler out of the place straight away.

Killer Wench

I don't think that we should be comparing Ireland and the US on this issue because we have two distinctly different perceptions of public welfare and entitlements.

I believe it is much more accepted in Ireland to receive personal funding from your government. In the US, those who receive public assistance carry a heavy stigma against them. People are ashamed to apply for food stamps and feel that they have failed their families if they receive help. And those who are financially able to support themselves feel bitter that they are supporting individuals who should be taking care of themselves. Thus, when there is a woman on welfare with children not being supported by the fathers, people feel enraged that they are supporting the child of a man who should be supporting his family.