Survey reveals a 44% pay gap between public and private sector

gigino · 04-08-2011 10:36PM

it just confirms people suspicions, when they compare like for like between the same job here + abroad. eg the public service vet here who is paid double what his old classmate the public service vet gets across the border in N. I., for doing the same job.

Itchianus · 04-08-2011 10:37PM

SBWife wrote: »

He re-registered specifically for this thread - he's made those 37 posts (many of which are detailed and complex) since returning to "work" from the bank holiday on Tuesday.

Make rash statements much?! :rolleyes:

You just come on here to blow off steam, at least I'm trying to have a reasoned discussion.

But if you hear something you don't like, like the fact that I'm not better paid than my UK equivalent, you throw the toys out of the pram, really classy...

Having said that, I may have been wrong, I need to check which grade is most like mine, and I may reverse what I said.

And it does look like Irish PS workers are higher paid than uk, although they do have incremental scales too, and I think (not sure) that they can get bonuses, but that might just be the senior grades.

How about less personal attacks and a bit more on topic discussion?

sollar · 04-08-2011 10:38PM

gigino wrote: »

it just confirms people suspicions, when they compare like for like between the same job here + abroad. eg the public service vet here who is paid double what his old classmate the public service vet gets across the border in N. I., for doing the same job.

Our law enforcement officers aren't that much better of than their UK counterparts are they?

gigino · 04-08-2011 10:43PM

dunno what entrance standards they had in the public service if you think a vet is a law enforcement officer.;)

Avegare Garda pay is approx 60 k a year last time I looked at it. The payscales on the UK public service website ( which was not police ) included the following payscales ( poor exploited people across the water )

Pay Scales as at June 2010

Grade

National Minimum*

National Maximum*

London Minimum*

London Maximum*

Administrative Assistant

14,255

15,727

18,095

19,965

Assistant Officer

17,330

19,474

21,323

23,892

Officer

22,669

26,227

26,094

30,331

Higher Officer

28,636

32,622

31,900

37,105

Senior Officer

35,232

39,643

37,990

42,856

Training grade (graduate development programme)

27,045

39,946

29,256

43,192

sollar · 04-08-2011 10:44PM

gigino wrote: »

dunno what entrance standards they had in the public service if you think a vet is a law enforcement officer.;)

I'm talking about Garda pay vs Police pay

gigino · 04-08-2011 10:52PM

If anything it should be the other way round, the uk police should be paid more than our cops ...they do tend to be a bit more professional on crimewatch UK than in Ballinascully. Plus their government is bailing us out, just as their government subsidised us through 3 decades of EEC / EC grants/subsidies.

Itchianus · 04-08-2011 11:43PM

gigino wrote: »

then maybe you should apply to HMRC. Salaries for admin assistants start at just over fourteen grand stg. .http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/jobs/salaries.htm

They are currently looking for officers who do not need to be UK nationals. Salary is a whopping 17.5k. stg.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/jobs/admin/index.htm
Compare that with the 48k or so which is our average public sector wage here.

Wow. Let's compare the lowest grades from the UK public sector with the average of all grades in the Irish public sector. Not a case of apples and oranges at all... :rolleyes:

I wouldn't mind but you could have said compared to the lowest clerical grades in the Irish PS, which would to some extent be meaningful, and show that the clerical officer here earns quite a bit more, even allowing for the pension levy and (arguably) a higher cost of living here.

gigino · 04-08-2011 11:56PM

Itchianus wrote: »

Let's compare the lowest grades from the UK public sector with the average of all grades in the Irish public sector.

Do that so. But you will find that as before, on average public sector wages here are still a lot higher than in our nearest neighbour ( + the one we share a land border with ), the UK.

femur61 · 05-08-2011 06:38AM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Who is looking at this and getting angry?

The previous thread we had on this was all about how the IMF/ECB was going to cut the PS so bad, and the gloating to go with it was disgusting (a bit typical of irish people though).
The last time they (IMF) reviewed the books they were satisfied with the cuts made and the manner they were being made in the PS.
So now instead of threats of the IMF you have changed your tune to mass public anger against the PS.

So i have two more questions fliball.

Do you speak on behalf of the entire private sector, are you their spokesperson?

How has this anger at the PS so far been expressed or how have you come to the conclusion that their is mass outrage at the PS employees?

I'm very angry, my husband is very angry. Actually, as far as I know there are groups of private sector workers fed up with the whole situation of paying taxes in order to fuel the wages in the PS, who IMO seem very ungrateful.

Itchianus · 05-08-2011 07:14AM

gigino wrote: »

Do that so. But you will find that as before, on average public sector wages here are still a lot higher than in our nearest neighbour ( + the one we share a land border with ), the UK.

What relevance does a land border have to anything?! The USA has a land border with Mexico, but you don't see me concocting a counterargument based on the fact that US PS workers earn a multiple of their Mexican counterparts.

And aren't you the smartass, quoting part of my post out of context - you're the one comparing apples and oranges, for dramatic effect, despite as I went on to point out, the fact that comparing like with like still proves your argument (just perhaps not as dramatically as you'd like). You're like a petulant child.

Itchianus · 05-08-2011 07:21AM

femur61 wrote: »

I'm very angry, my husband is very angry. Actually, as far as I know there are groups of private sector workers fed up with the whole situation of paying taxes in order to fuel the wages in the PS, who IMO seem very ungrateful.

I'm grateful?

I'm also angry that the taxes I pay fuel the wages of underperforming PS workers.

And I'm disappointed, that so many on here will quite happily tar all PS workers with the same brush.

Itchianus · 05-08-2011 07:37AM

gigino wrote: »

Do that so. But you will find that as before, on average public sector wages here are still a lot higher than in our nearest neighbour ( + the one we share a land border with ), the UK.

By your logic (based on a land border), we need to reduce the minimum wage to €6.80 (£5.93 being the UK rate) since our minimum wage workers are substantially overpaid. Ditto our social welfare rates. And without checking the figures, I suspect ditto large swathes of private sector wages.

That is the logical conclusion of your argument, and there might be some merit to it. But you can't have it both ways, reprice our PS to equate to the UK, but not the rest of our economy.

robtri · 05-08-2011 08:28AM

The way i see it is that the private sector pay a large proportion of their taxes to support the Public Sector wage bill.

and something is not right when when the bill payers are recieving less wages than the crowd they are paying?

while the simple matter is that the Public Sector workers need to understand is that we cant afford to continue to pay you your current wages... there are no if and or buts... we as a country ( and I include everyone in that public and private sector) have not got the money....

We need to start treating this Country like a company, when the money is there (like it was in the celtic years) pay people well, but when the money is not there the country has to pay its employees a lot less or cut numbers ...

A question for the Public Sector... where do you purpose long term that we keep getting money to pay you your current wages?

fliball123 · 05-08-2011 09:42AM

EF wrote: »

I imagine that would decrease expenditure by less than a billion considering the pension levy, which applied to all didn't reach the €1bn mark. It is not an insignificant amount but it won't solve this country's problems.

True it wont solve it but it will mean that the 16 billion odd that was off the table for cuts is now back on it

fliball123 · 05-08-2011 09:44AM

gigino wrote: »

Even cutting our public sector wages by that amount will still mean that our public servants are rewarded more generously than those in the UK, which is one of the countries bailing us out and our nearest neighbour.

Maybe so but the 1st step in this needs to be the 16billion of spend which is off the table for cuts under the cpa is now back on and next year it can be hit again aswell as an equal hit to the dole and some tax increases..Just some fairness is all I want on the tax vs cuts equation

fliball123 · 05-08-2011 09:50AM

PoleStar wrote: »

Wow you are clever.

Although you could easily have worded this as "shop assistants are paid more" or perhaps "cleaners are paid more" or perhaps "lawyers are paid more".

Bottom line is that in all sectors Irish people are paid more. But our cost of living is also higher.

I mean, why choose the UK?

Why not choose Poland where the average salary is 12,000 per year, I am sure your argument would have sounded more convincing. Oh wait no, cost of leaving is even cheaper there.

Stupid stupid argument put out again and again.

And funnily enough if the company which pays these cleaners, shop keepers etc is in debt and a chance of going out of business these wages are reduced or the employee let go...which is happening at a rate of 4 business a week from the start of the year...So what can we do ask the Polish Public service to come work in Ireland..Might be a good idea

tayto lover · 05-08-2011 10:21AM

gigino wrote: »

then maybe you should apply to HMRC. Salaries for admin assistants start at just over fourteen grand stg. .http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/jobs/salaries.htm

They are currently looking for officers who do not need to be UK nationals. Salary is a whopping 17.5k. stg.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/jobs/admin/index.htm
Compare that with the 48k or so which is our average public sector wage here.

He already has a job so why don't you take it if its that good ?

tayto lover · 05-08-2011 10:24AM

gigino wrote: »

If anything it should be the other way round, the uk police should be paid more than our cops ...they do tend to be a bit more professional on crimewatch UK than in Ballinascully. Plus their government is bailing us out, just as their government subsidised us through 3 decades of EEC / EC grants/subsidies.

What a childish post.
I'd say your equivalent in Britain is probably way ahead too.

gigino · 05-08-2011 10:31AM

tayto lover wrote: »

He already has a job so why don't you take it if its that good ?

It was him that was comparing his public sector pay here, with his equivalent in the UK.

Its not sustainable to keep paying the public service here so much more than both the private sector, and public sectors elsewhere.

robtri wrote: »

The way i see it is that the private sector pay a large proportion of their taxes to support the Public Sector wage bill.

and something is not right when when the bill payers are recieving less wages than the crowd they are paying?

while the simple matter is that the Public Sector workers need to understand is that we cant afford to continue to pay you your current wages... there are no if and or buts... we as a country ( and I include everyone in that public and private sector) have not got the money....

Well said, good point.

Itchianus · 05-08-2011 10:32AM

In the UK I think the different Depts have a degree of autonomy in setting their pay structures, and then have to fight for their share of the pot from the Treasury, there's a lot to be said for that, as it can allow for some degree of Market reality to be brought to bear.

05-08-2011 10:52AM

gigino wrote: »

then maybe you should apply to HMRC. Salaries for admin assistants start at just over fourteen grand stg. .http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/jobs/salaries.htm

They are currently looking for officers who do not need to be UK nationals. Salary is a whopping 17.5k. stg.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/jobs/admin/index.htm
Compare that with the 48k or so which is our average public sector wage here.

Stupid post is stupid.

I have a question why use starting wages in the UK and compare those to average in Eire?

Is it because it makes for a better rant?

05-08-2011 10:55AM

robtri wrote: »

The way i see it is that the private sector pay a large proportion of their taxes to support the Public Sector wage bill.

and something is not right when when the bill payers are recieving less wages than the crowd they are paying?

while the simple matter is that the Public Sector workers need to understand is that we cant afford to continue to pay you your current wages... there are no if and or buts... we as a country ( and I include everyone in that public and private sector) have not got the money....

We need to start treating this Country like a company, when the money is there (like it was in the celtic years) pay people well, but when the money is not there the country has to pay its employees a lot less or cut numbers ...

A question for the Public Sector... where do you purpose long term that we keep getting money to pay you your current wages?

Another crazy post!

In many service industries the person getting the service will be paid less than the staff working for the service provider, so what?

I mean does everyone who employs the use of an accountant have to earn mroe than that accountant?

stone roses · 05-08-2011 11:00AM

tere are people here on a mission to destroy other peoples income becaues teres has being affected!! what a super angle to come from!! you hit me i hit you back until one of us falls, then teres no one left to hit, what do we do then? dont you guys get it? its like kids in a school yard " i dont have it so your not getting it"

im a fireman and if anymore cuts come my wages i will do my job as always , i will work hard and train hard for less money! id do it for nothing cause i love my job!! but tere are sad people who are non productive and mean there only mission in life is to cut my wages, see me do my job for nothing, they would love to see me on the bread line, the same people i would save in a fire!! they are sad sad indivduals

fliball123 · 05-08-2011 11:07AM

stone roses wrote: »

tere are people here on a mission to destroy other peoples income becaues teres has being affected!! what a super angle to come from!! you hit me i hit you back until one of us falls, then teres no one left to hit, what do we do then? dont you guys get it? its like kids in a school yard " i dont have it so your not getting it"

im a fireman and if anymore cuts come my wages i will do my job as always , i will work hard and train hard for less money! id do it for nothing cause i love my job!! but tere are sad people who are non productive and mean there only mission in life is to cut my wages, see me do my job for nothing, they would love to see me on the bread line, the same people i would save in a fire!! they are sad sad indivduals

On the flip side of that there are deluded people who think we can still pay wages at 2006 levels when we are borrowing 18 billion to keep the lights on ...The sad people are the tax payers who are having the jocks wedgied the fcuk to pay for it

05-08-2011 11:10AM

fliball123 wrote: »

On the flip side of that there are deluded people who think we can still pay wages at 2006 levels when we are borrowing 18 billion to keep the lights on ...The sad people are the tax payers who are having the jocks wedgied the fcuk to pay for it

So thats all employed people your refering to?

stone roses · 05-08-2011 11:10AM

fliball123 wrote: »

On the flip side of that there are deluded people who think we can still pay wages at 2006 levels when we are borrowing 18 billion to keep the lights on ...The sad people are the tax payers who are having the jocks wedgied the fcuk to pay for it

so i dont pay tax?? listen you want to save money, hit the peolpe who have it the most!! and dont give me this crap it wont make a difference!

gigino · 05-08-2011 11:40AM

stone roses wrote: »

so i dont pay tax??

Its a book keeping exercise. The private sector pay income tax etc to the government and are net contributers to the government / public sector.
Government employees receie this money, they are net takers from the government.

The people who pay the taxes earn less + have less security + pensions than the people who receice the taxes.

As someone else said "the private sector pay a large proportion of their taxes to support the Public Sector wage bill.

and something is not right when when the bill payers are recieving less wages than the crowd they are paying? "

robtri · 05-08-2011 11:59AM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Another crazy post!

In many service industries the person getting the service will be paid less than the staff working for the service provider, so what?

I mean does everyone who employs the use of an accountant have to earn mroe than that accountant?

nothing crazy about it...
government needs to pay a wage bill of 18bn a year to public service employees, this money comes mostly from private sector taxes. therefore if the public service is getting paid well more than the private sector something has to break at some stage.. there just wont be enough money longterm...

ohh wait soemthing ahs broken and look at the crap we in...

simple fact we cant afford to pay the wages .... thats it... continuing to borrow money to pay wages will not work.

robtri · 05-08-2011 12:02PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So thats all employed people your refering to?

i would assume it just private sector... cause the public sector tax bill is just a paper exercise no money needs to exsist for it to be paid out of wages... one government department gives u a wage andother takes the tax off u... there is no net loss or gain from a tax perspective...

robtri · 05-08-2011 12:04PM

stone roses wrote: »

so i dont pay tax?? listen you want to save money, hit the peolpe who have it the most!! and dont give me this crap it wont make a difference!

I agree lets hit the people with the most... now which group of people get paid 18bn a year again.....

Survey reveals a 44% pay gap between public and private sector

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