Survey reveals a 44% pay gap between public and private sector

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 11:29AM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Do you answer any questions i pose?

When did I say these holidays were deserved, in fact until this post when did I even use the word holiday in this thread?

Your mock outrage to disguise your avoidance of questions is comical!

Oh on the voting thing...Yeah I started a thread with the idea of having a website to allow people vote on decisions that the gov take ie the comming up budget...

People should be shown a menu of options on how to say close the deficit of 18billion

ie select on of the below to address the current deficit
tax more income tax rise
Cut the socail welfare by x%
Cut PS pay by x%

That way before the gov do anything they can gauge what way the people are thinking...

04-08-2011 11:31AM

Jaysoose wrote: »

Dont sink to this level fliball..the guy is purposely winding you up.

I think you will find fliball responded in outrage to me, about something i did not say.

So Im not sure how Im trying to wind the poster up.

04-08-2011 11:35AM

fliball123 wrote: »

Oh on the voting thing...Yeah I started a thread with the idea of having a website to allow people vote on decisions that the gov take ie the comming up budget...

People should be shown a menu of options on how to say close the deficit of 18billion

ie select on of the below to address the current deficit
tax more income tax rise
Cut the socail welfare by x%
Cut PS pay by x%

That way before the gov do anything they can gauge what way the people are thinking...

A website?
Didnt you claim you worked in IT somewhere in this thread?

So you want a government that couldnt even get e-voting machines to work in normal pollng stations to setup a site which allows members of the public vote on government decisions?

:D

Anyway the consultation process would in certains situations prove to great, it would increase the cost of the government work.

All sorts of issues with privacy whilst verifying the user logged in is a valid member of the electorate etc etc.

Reducing the work of government to a simple boards style poll is imho one of the worst ideas i have ever heard.

browneyesdub · 04-08-2011 11:41AM

Well I’m not going to quote figures and percentages because I don’t know any.
However I work for the PS – and before you start I’m on a part time contract so I’m off today!

I work in an alzheimers unit for the elderly. I have to see patients crying because no one visits them (despite the fact that their family left 20 minutes ago), I have been hit with walking sticks, had things thrown at me and been verbally abused by patients. I’m not a medical member of staff - I’m the office clerk!!

Other staff (nursing in particular) have even worse experiences than me with some patients but we understand this is all part of their illness and we do our jobs to the best of our ability with the limited resources and staff shortages that we have.

So don’t lump us all in with the big wigs and don’t you dare tell me that my 15,000 per annum is not deserved!! Come and sit at my desk for a few hours and see what its like. And before you say I’m lucky to have a job – yes I am, I know I am but I work hard as do all my colleagues doing things that 90% of you wouldn’t do!

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 11:41AM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

A website?
Didnt you claim you worked in IT somewhere in this thread?

So you want a government that couldnt even get e-voting machines to work in normal pollng stations to setup a site which allows members of the public vote on government decisions? :D

Anyway the consultation process would in certains situations prove to great, it would increase the cost of the government work.

All sorts of issues with privacy whilst verifying the user logged in is a valid member of the electorate etc etc.

yeah true about the public sector lads who tried the evoting....but they could do the smart thing and outsource it to the private sector to create it and look after it..Problem solved....Privacy wouldnt be in issue all data would be owned by the gov and could be set up to only be viewed by the gov and with the proper security implemented it wouldnt be an issue.

Also how would a voter being validated be an issue..Simple ala your ATM card...You get a card with a number (oh wait we already have PPS cards) so you issue out a letter with a logon for your PPS number..A website with a vote button these votes simply added together and a little pie chart looking at options for the gov going forward can guage a lot. They will be able start by looking at the sample size which would show how interested in a particular problem/area that people are interested in. Then they can guage which is the most popular option..In fact I am supprised govs have not done this before as the wetting the finger and sticking it in the wind approach doesnt work.

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 11:45AM

browneyesdub wrote: »

Well I’m not going to quote figures and percentages because I don’t know any.
However I work for the PS – and before you start I’m on a part time contract so I’m off today!

I work in an alzheimers unit for the elderly. I have to see patients crying because no one visits them (despite the fact that their family left 20 minutes ago), I have been hit with walking sticks, had things thrown at me and been verbally abused by patients. I’m not a medical member of staff - I’m the office clerk!!

Other staff (nursing in particular) have even worse experiences than me with some patients but we understand this is all part of their illness and we do our jobs to the best of our ability with the limited resources and staff shortages that we have.

So don’t lump us all in with the big wigs and don’t you dare tell me that my 15,000 per annum is not deserved!! Come and sit at my desk for a few hours and see what its like. And before you say I’m lucky to have a job – yes I am, I know I am but I work hard as do all my colleagues doing things that 90% of you wouldn’t do!

The fact is you probably are overpaid in comparison to our Euro counterparts and you forget how lucky you are as there are a majority of 450k on the dole who would kill for your job

Lumbo · 04-08-2011 11:47AM

fliball123 wrote: »

yeah true about the public sector lads who tried the evoting....but they could do the smart thing and outsource it to the private sector to create it and look after it..Problem solved....Privacy wouldnt be in issue all data would be owned by the gov and could be set up to only be viewed by the gov and with the proper security implemented it wouldnt be an issue.

http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2011/0803/ireland/gardai-to-investigate-data-breach-at-tallaght-hospital-515243.html

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 11:53AM

Lumbo wrote: »

http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2011/0803/ireland/gardai-to-investigate-data-breach-at-tallaght-hospital-515243.html

haha thats gas...your comparing an IT system online secure over the web using voting options which will be held in a secure database to documents that were via a phone dictated over to a person in the Phillipines and typed up in the Philipines ...come on your stretching there now...By the way what are the fcuking administrators in the HSE fcuking doing if this type of work does not fall under thieir remit...and whats worse is couldnt some off the dole be given say an extra 50 quid a week to type ths stuff up?

Itchianus · 04-08-2011 11:57AM

fliball123 wrote: »

The fact is you probably are overpaid in comparison to our Euro counterparts and you forget how lucky you are as there are a majority of 450k on the dole who would kill for your job

Ah I love how you just have the answer for everything, liberal use of probably this and majority that... I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but you "probably" are in the majority of people's eyes

Itchianus · 04-08-2011 11:59AM

fliball123 wrote: »

haha thats gas...your comparing an IT system online secure over the web using voting options which will be held in a secure database to documents that were via a phone dictated over to a person in the Phillipines and typed up in the Philipines ...come on your stretching there now...By the way what are the fcuking administrators in the HSE fcuking doing if this type of work does not fall under thieir remit...and whats worse is couldnt some off the dole be given say an extra 50 quid a week to type ths stuff up?

Minimum wage issues?

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 12:01PM

Itchianus wrote: »

Minimum wage issues?

Sorry meant 50 quid a week extra on top of their dole .

Lumbo · 04-08-2011 12:09PM

fliball123 wrote: »

haha thats gas...your comparing an IT system online secure over the web using voting options which will be held in a secure database to documents that were via a phone dictated over to a person in the Phillipines and typed up in the Philipines ...come on your stretching there now...By the way what are the fcuking administrators in the HSE fcuking doing if this type of work does not fall under thieir remit...and whats worse is couldnt some off the dole be given say an extra 50 quid a week to type ths stuff up?

Contradicting yourself again :rolleyes:

I'm out.

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 12:26PM

Itchianus wrote: »

Ah I love how you just have the answer for everything, liberal use of probably this and majority that... I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but you "probably" are in the majority of people's eyes

Whats your point?

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 12:26PM

Lumbo wrote: »

Contradicting yourself again :rolleyes:

I'm out.

How so?? explain

Itchianus · 04-08-2011 12:36PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Whats your point?

My point is I'd rather if you would set out some kind of reasoned suggestion, by reference to facts or numbers, as to how you would like to tackle the PS pay problem (which we all know is very real), rather than scoring cheap points, and fcuk this and cnut that.

Your reply to that girl was staggeringly arrogant and dismissive, and without reference to anything factual other than what you reckon is probably the case, or how you reckon the majority of the unemployed feel.

You're codding yourself if you think that as a taxpayer I'm any less angry than you about the latest FÁS fiasco

CreepingDeath · 04-08-2011 12:36PM

Degsy wrote: »

I FOR ONE WILL NOT BE SORRY TO SEE THEM GO..THE it SECTOR HAS SPAWNED UNBELEIVABLE ARROGANCE,GREED AND STUPIDITY.

Greed from whom ?

The public sectors greed (annual pay increments) is paid for by the Irish people.
The private sectors "greed" is paid for by companies.
There's a huge difference.

The private sectors wages are kept in balance by supply and demand for the skills they have and an individual assessment at annual pay reviews based on performance.

The public sectors wages are not kept in balance and are continually increased each year, based on length of service not value nor job performance.
Any attempt to rectify this causes an immediate threat of industrial action.

04-08-2011 12:45PM

fliball123 wrote: »

yeah true about the public sector lads who tried the evoting....but they could do the smart thing and outsource it to the private sector to create it and look after it..Problem solved....Privacy wouldnt be in issue all data would be owned by the gov and could be set up to only be viewed by the gov and with the proper security implemented it wouldnt be an issue.

Your right you could go on a pointless and truthless rant.
Yeah ok but wasnt the real issue to do with the accountability of the machines and a lack of a paper trail?

fliball123 wrote: »

Also how would a voter being validated be an issue..Simple ala your ATM card...You get a card with a number (oh wait we already have PPS cards) so you issue out a letter with a logon for your PPS number..A website with a vote button these votes simply added together and a little pie chart looking at options for the gov going forward can guage a lot. They will be able start by looking at the sample size which would show how interested in a particular problem/area that people are interested in. Then they can guage which is the most popular option..In fact I am supprised govs have not done this before as the wetting the finger and sticking it in the wind approach doesnt work.

Your telling me that electronic systems are not open to interruption, interception and dont have issues with verification?
Your saying we should leave the running of our country to a poll based system where the people decide?
You think knowing a PPS number is sufficent for dealing with vital state matters?

You want a system which might also be open to manipulation from any number of countries cyber security division for any number of nefarious reasons?

Of course this never happens in the real world for private sector firms.
I cant even think of one large firm this has happened to this year can you? :rolleyes:

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 12:47PM

Itchianus wrote: »

My point is I'd rather if you would set out some kind of reasoned suggestion, by reference to facts or numbers, as to how you would like to tackle the PS pay problem (which we all know is very real), rather than scoring cheap points, and fcuk this and cnut that.

Your reply to that girl was staggeringly arrogant and dismissive, and without reference to anything factual other than what you reckon is probably the case, or how you reckon the majority of the unemployed feel.

You're codding yourself if you think that as a taxpayer I'm any less angry than you about the latest FÁS fiasco

As I stated the only versus issue I have here is tax increase vs cuts...every euro not cut it will come out of my tax by an increase...Sorry if I am not feeling sorry for a girl who has a job, job security, garenteed pension and no pay cuts for the next couple of years..even if its part time...She didnt go into detail of her circumstances...and yet whilst she works part time hours she is getting significantly more than people who were unfortunate to lose their job....So if my response was cold I appologise but I stick by what I said and there are always those less fortunate and in comparison to thousands of private sector who are part time and other people working in the same area in other countries she is soo much better off... But in a day in age when I am faced with more and more taxes have a kid and I cannot afford to have another and have fcuk all money at the end of the month to do anything...My response is welcome to the real world misses this is where the majority of dole recievers and those in the private sector find themselves..Do I expect anyone to feel sorry for me..No I have been offered part time work doing IT support on the weekends so I will be doing that in order to have a little more food on the table...

And yet the PS employees like Robbie the robber support whats going on with SIPTU and FAS

04-08-2011 12:50PM

fliball123 wrote: »

And yet the PS employees like Robbie the robber support whats going on with SIPTU and FAS

Retract this statement!

I am reporting this post this is second or third time today you have made statements about me that have no basis except in your opinion!

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 12:52PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Your right you could go on a pointless and truthless rant.
Yeah ok but wasnt the real issue to do with the accountability of the machines and a lack of a paper trail?

Your telling me that electronic systems are not open to interruption, interception and dont have issues with verification?
Your saying we should leave the running of our country to a poll based system where the people decide?
You think knowing a PPS number is sufficent for dealing with vital state matters?

You want a system which might also be open to manipulation from any number of countries cyber security division for any number of nefarious reasons?

Of course this never happens in the real world for private sector firms.
I cant even think of one large firm this has happened to this year can you? :rolleyes:

Yeah I am sure there will be hackers and the rest but proper IT proceedures such as changing passwords every day etc and other security measures such as locking down the server via firewalls etc ..(i wont bore you with the detail) you can have a very secure system which hackers would need months to hack and if its a floating password and even better using virtualisation and clusters with floating IP addresses there is very little leeway a hacker can do...You can have a sniffer looking for people trying to hack in and cut them off before they get anyway.....We are not deciding state matters it would be a database of information of how the country feels on certain issues...as the one I put forward how to bring 18billion deficit down

as for the pps ...yeah thats all you need your pps number is a unique number given to all irish citizens whats the problem with that?

srsly78 · 04-08-2011 12:53PM

@rob: Ehhh it says you are a robber in your username dude.

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 12:54PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Retract this statement!

I am reporting this post this is second or third time today you have made statements about me that have no basis except in your opinion!

Did you not say it would be unfair to stop these holidays after a high court ruling if you didnt then I retract if you did (which you did) I stand by what I said

04-08-2011 12:54PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah I am sure there will be hackers and the rest but proper IT proceedures such as changing passwords every day etc and other security measures such as locking down the server via firewalls etc ..(i wont bore you with the detail) you can have a very secure system which hackers would need months to hack and if its a floating password and even better using virtualisation and clusters with floating IP addresses there is very little leeway a hacker can do...You can have a sniffer looking for people trying to hack in and cut them off before they get anyway.....We are not deciding state matters it would be a database of information of how the country feels on certain issues...as the one I put forward how to bring 18billion deficit down

as for the pps ...yeah thats all you need your pps number is a unique number given to all irish citizens whats the problem with that?

The PPS number is issued to too many other institutions which could should they wish use that information to their own ends.

We all give our PPS number to our employers, dont we?

Sony is a multi billion dollar company as are google apple microsoft paypal dont give me this secure system crap.

The only secure system is one thats turned off!

04-08-2011 12:56PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Did you not say it would be unfair to stop these holidays after a high court ruling if you didnt then I retract if you did (which you did) I stand by what I said

You really are boring me today! :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Find that remark that you know i made!

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 12:59PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

The PPS number is issued to too many other institutions which could should they wish use that information to their own ends.

We all give our PPS number to our employers, dont we?

Sony is a multi billion dollar company as are google apple microsoft paypal dont give me this secure system crap.

The only secure system is one thats turned off!

really well an example would be a bank how many banking systems have you seen comprimised..The only ones in recent history is when laptops have been lost or stolen...So if your of the whole all IT systems can be hacked...let me ask you a question...Do you put your money in a bank if you do then you must trust there IT system...as I garentee you there are not 100 bank employees with cash and abacusses doing the sums on what you have in your account..its all done on an IT system...

04-08-2011 01:02PM

fliball123 wrote: »

really well an example would be a bank how many banking systems have you seen comprimised..The only ones in recent history is when laptops have been lost or stolen...So if your of the whole all IT systems can be hacked...let me ask you a question...Do you put your money in a bank if you do then you must trust there IT system...as I garentee you there are not 100 bank employees with cash and abacusses doing the sums on what you have in your account..its all done on an IT system...

Im not replying to you until you find my post or retract your statement!

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 01:03PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Fliball I really dont think this is right and would suggest you read up on some decision handed down by the labour court.
We also have employment laws in this country and if a person has a contract for such then i dont think the company can legally just ignore any obligations under that contract.

Below is my comment in bold which you replied above to which you do not think is right which means you do not think that these holidays should be just taken away

Sorry you will find in most Private sector companies if the company is going under the contract signed is not worth the paper it was wrtten on..As I said the gov should moxy up and say ITS GONE get over it no concessions..if you have a problem strike ...its the Union mantra and this O'Brien character of Siptu was on newstalk spouting it needed to be negotiated away...and people wonder why the rest of the country are up in arms over the PS and Unions?

fliball123 · 04-08-2011 01:05PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Im not replying to you until you find my post or retract your statement!

Good man give yourself an increment

nesf · 04-08-2011 01:08PM

fliball123 wrote: »

And yet the PS employees like Robbie the robber support whats going on with SIPTU and FAS

Don't put words in peoples' mouths. If they support what's going on they can say so well enough themselves.

04-08-2011 01:08PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Below is my comment in bold which you replied above to which you do not think is right which means you do not think that these holidays should be just taken away

Sorry you will find in most Private sector companies if the company is going under the contract signed is not worth the paper it was wrtten on..As I said the gov should moxy up and say ITS GONE get over it no concessions..if you have a problem strike ...its the Union mantra and this O'Brien character of Siptu was on newstalk spouting it needed to be negotiated away...and people wonder why the rest of the country are up in arms over the PS and Unions?

Where does that say anything that might imply i support siptu or FAS?

That was clearly in reply to your suggestion that companies just sack employees with no legal comeback for said employees.

I suggested you look at decisions of the labour court because this would highlight to you just how wrong your belief is!

I never named siptu or FAS i never implied nor stated i suppported their current actions.
You are wrong, your statements regarding me have been wrong all day.
Pease refrain from making any more statements about my opinion.
Unless i have expressed such an opinion to you and then please back up your claims with quotes.

Survey reveals a 44% pay gap between public and private sector

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