Survey reveals a 44% pay gap between public and private sector

fliball123

The_Thing wrote: »

Thanks fliball123, but I am already at the top of my scale

No matter how much you or anyone else pays in taxes I am not your servant - that's why I always refer to myself as a Government employee.

And who funds the gov..the tax payer...good public servant

Jaysoose

tayto lover wrote: »

Still at it i see.

I have worked in both sectors and the Public Sector is not all its cracked up to be.
This kind of argument only suits the Government and is instigated by the Independent all the time.
Will you people ever wake up and see that having you bickering is just what their plan is. When they start cutting again and are finished with the Public Sector they will then start again on the Private Sector. Divide and conquer.

Will you drop this union bs about divide and conquer tactics, i for one am sick of hearing this mantra spouted you may as well say "dont look at us look what they are doing".

And for the book i wish they would START with the public sector instead of delaying as long as possible behind the disgrace that is the Croke Park agreement.

fliball123

mat cauthon wrote: »

I've had posts deleted on this forum for saying less than these - if you dont like the public sector, then go work in the private.
But remember what the public sector is - its not fat cats playing with a computer, it is nurses, teachers, firemen, policemen, customs, social welfare workers....
The much lauded private sector who squealed like goosed girls when they had to pay 1% levy on their inflated pensions, bonuses and other generous perks did not take a pay cut or pay a huge pension levy.

If you think the public sector has it so good, feck off and work in it so! If you are suitably qualified. No? Thought not.
Nasty thing begrudgery.

Yeah begrudgery and maybe a small issue like the ps employment embargo ...Good man ...and once again the emotional issue gaurds nurses...So what they are all overpaid....and beware all PS look at the teacher situation.....You guys have been going on about no pay cuts..So now they gov has to actually sack some teachers and increase class sizes...
Also with the figures out for the first 6 months of year for tax takes...Income tax has increased by 2billion thats a 25% increase on income tax as opposed to the same time last year or the first 6 months of 2010 and thats with roughly 100k less people working....yet with these savings we are still runing at 18billion...A ps employee pointed out that 2billion have been saved via the PS pay cuts to date..(over 4 years) the tax payer has made the same contribution in the first 6 months of 2011 alone...Kinda puts the whole cut vs tax increase into perspective...But lets keep paying the gaurds and nurses etc over and above what others in OCED get because they work harder than in other countries NOT

fliball123

tayto lover wrote: »

Still at it i see.

I have worked in both sectors and the Public Sector is not all its cracked up to be.
This kind of argument only suits the Government and is instigated by the Independent all the time.
Will you people ever wake up and see that having you bickering is just what their plan is. When they start cutting again and are finished with the Public Sector they will then start again on the Private Sector. Divide and conquer.

This line of devide and conquer being a gov strategy is a load of ar$e...its just people can see the wood from the trees and know the direct correlation between cuts and taxing...for every Euro not cut we get taxed...There has been no propaganda just seeing scandal after scandal alla the latest one with FAS/Solais getting the 70 days for the last 2 years to acclimatise to retirement..FFS

People have been taxed an extra 2billion in income tax alone in the first 6 months of the year and yet the deficit has not come down by that amount due to not only ps pay increments but also other areas like an increase in people signing on and the bailout repayments...

All argueing aside and propaganda and the gov are the big bad wolfe...How can they get the deficit down without hitting everyone..????

OMD

femur61 wrote: »

I was at the tax office in Kilkenny yesterday and it closes at 1pm every day. This is new as I have been there in the afternoon before, tax payers money, I am getting madder and madder that my money is paying for the PS wages, my money.

Reality is all tax offices should be closed and transactions done online or by post. Possibly keep 1 or 2 offices somewhere but having at least 1 in every county is just stupid

Better still, abolish motor tax and replace it with an increase in fuel tax. This reduce costs of administration and implementation (gardai, courts etc) and gets those avoiding motor tax

Itchianus

femur61 wrote: »

I was at the tax office in Kilkenny yesterday and it closes at 1pm every day. This is new as I have been there in the afternoon before, tax payers money, I am getting madder and madder that my money is paying for the PS wages, my money.

Just because the public counter was closed doesn't mean that the whole place is closed.

Have you considered why they close it at 1? (Hints: Recruitment ban, staff retiring not being replaced, resources needed more elsewhere such as on the PAYE helpline, which can deal with most issues for people without them needing to leave their house...)

irishh_bob

thebman wrote: »

This lads look at this conspiracy theory, the government want to turn private on public or vise versa divide and conquer etc... has no substance to it at all.

There is a budget deficit and needs to be fixed if we are to avoid default. It is a purely logical and mathematical exercise and I see no evidence that the conspiracy theory of public vs private exists.

Certainly there are newspaper with agendas but that has always been the case and newspaper will print what they believe will sell.

do you realise how condescending and patronising this DIVIDE AND CONQUER lark sounds , it more or less insinuates that private sector workers would,nt have any views on public sector wages , work culture , pension etc , were it not for the likes of the goverment , the sunday independant or eddie hobbs with thier hands up our jacksees like some glove puppetteer , the divide and conquer line is another union invented piece of jargon along with that other ( since debunked ) pearl , no one wanted to work in the public sector during the boom , time for jack o connor to issue his members with some new banner headlines

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah begrudgery and maybe a small issue like the ps employment embargo ...Good man ...and once again the emotional issue gaurds nurses...So what they are all overpaid....and beware all PS look at the teacher situation.....You guys have been going on about no pay cuts..So now they gov has to actually sack some teachers and increase class sizes...
Also with the figures out for the first 6 months of year for tax takes...Income tax has increased by 2billion thats a 25% increase on income tax as opposed to the same time last year or the first 6 months of 2010 and thats with roughly 100k less people working....yet with these savings we are still runing at 18billion...A ps employee pointed out that 2billion have been saved via the PS pay cuts to date..(over 4 years) the tax payer has made the same contribution in the first 6 months of 2011 alone...Kinda puts the whole cut vs tax increase into perspective...But lets keep paying the gaurds and nurses etc over and above what others in OCED get because they work harder than in other countries NOT

Waffle waffle waffle rant rant rant.

Fliball, when you say the tax payer has .........., are you excluding tax paying public servants from this group or including them?

irishh_bob

irishh_bob wrote: »

do you realise how condescending and patronising this DIVIDE AND CONQUER lark sounds , it more or less insinuates that private sector workers would,nt have any views on public sector wages , work culture , pension etc , were it not for the likes of the goverment , the sunday independant or eddie hobbs with thier hands up our jacksees like some glove puppetteer , the divide and conquer line is another union invented piece of jargon along with that other ( since debunked ) pearl , no one wanted to work in the public sector during the boom , time for jack o connor to issue his members with some new banner headlines

I could use your opening statement of do you realise how condescending and patronising, to describe much of the content of this thread!
I could do a multi quote of such remarks but I reckon my one comment would be about 50% the size of the current thread.

While your defending all free thinking private sector workers from the outrage of being accussed of getting their information from media sources, did you ever stop to think how condescending and patronising it is to accuse all Ps workers of merely being Jack o'connors mouthpieces?

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Waffle waffle waffle rant rant rant.

Fliball, when you say the tax payer has .........., are you excluding tax paying public servants from this group or including them?

Do public servants pay tax? of course they do..yes ... As I say Robbie there is a direct correlation between every Euro saved by cutting as apposed to over taxing...How is what I said waffle?

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Do public servants pay tax? of course they do..yes ... As I say Robbie there is a direct correlation between every Euro saved by cutting as apposed to over taxing...How is what I said waffle?

So your saying public servants are tax payers?

Lumbo

irishh_bob wrote: »

debunked ) pearl , no one wanted to work in the public sector during the boom ,

I work for a County Council. In the past I worked in Recruitment. In 2002 we had to send a team (HR manager & 2 Enginners) to Africa to do interviews with Engineers. We ended up employing 6, 3 still work with us.

The only area we never had problems with was Admin applications. There was always a high number of them. Architects, Planners, Technicians, Engineers on the other hand would usually interview, get a letter from us offering a position and then use it to negotiate better terms with their own employer.

This all changed in 2006 when the arse fell out of the construction industry and people I know who in the past would laugh at the idea of working in the Public Sector started asking me to inform them of any openings coming up.

So when you say it's some invented piece of jargon, I can give you first hand example of where it's not.

Itchianus

OMD wrote: »

Reality is all tax offices should be closed and transactions done online or by post. Possibly keep 1 or 2 offices somewhere but having at least 1 in every county is just stupid

Better still, abolish motor tax and replace it with an increase in fuel tax. This reduce costs of administration and implementation (gardai, courts etc) and gets those avoiding motor tax

A hell of a lot of sense in there, and I presume you mean the public counter when you talk about only having a couple of offices.

I'd suggest you'll always need relatively local offices (I.e. For audit, compliance, customs & excise, but not necessarily public counter), for a variety of reasons: damage to local economies if everyone gets moved back to Dublin, or wherever you'd centralise to, as well as a whole heap of new administrative problems (like how to audit a business in Sligo from Dublin, without it costing a fortune in travel/subsistence etc.), not to mention the effect of people knowing that there isn't a Revenue official within 100 miles of them - in a way it'd be like not having any Garda stations outside of the major cities...!

Also, just to clarify there isn't at least one tax office in every county, or there soon won't be (despite the best efforts of the unions of course :rolleyes:), they are being consolidated to a certain degree, Kilkenny district covers Kilkenny, Laois and Carlow for example.

I like the motor tax / fuel tax idea, but the effect on hauliers etc would have to be considered (perhaps through some kind of a rebate system for registered hauliers, to mitigate the rise in their cost base).

Gumbo

fliball123 wrote: »

How is what I said waffle?

Here :

fliball123 wrote: »

A ps employee pointed out that 2billion have been saved via the PS pay cuts to date..(over 4 years) the tax payer has made the same contribution in the first 6 months of 2011 alone...Kinda puts the whole cut vs tax increase into perspective...But lets keep paying the gaurds and nurses etc over and above what others in OCED get because they work harder than in other countries NOT

the tax payer in this case includes the PS :rolleyes:

Also if you want to discount the PS as paying tax, then atleast post the Nett cost of the PS and stop spouting the Gross cost :rolleyes:

Lumbo wrote: »

The only area we never had problems with was Admin applications. There was always a high number of them. Architects, Planners, Technicians, Engineers on the other hand would usually interview, get a letter from us offering a position and then use it to negotiate better terms with their own employer.

i actually done that in 2005
got a 6k pay rise from my lovely Private Sector boss

Lumbo

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So your saying public servants are tax payers?

Ah Robbie you should know by know that the only reason that the Public Sector pay tax is so that they can keep people in Admin jobs.

It's been proved here before that the Public Sector employee does not pay any tax.

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I could use your opening statement of do you realise how condescending and patronising, to describe much of the content of this thread!
I could do a multi quote of such remarks but I reckon my one comment would be about 50% the size of the current thread.

While your defending all free thinking private sector workers from the outrage of being accussed of getting their information from media sources, did you ever stop to think how condescending and patronising it is to accuse all Ps workers of merely being Jack o'connors mouthpieces?

Have a look at how many ps posters have said this..the posts are there in black and white..and its a non sense...People have woken up the reality of the correlation between how much we need to cut and if its not cut we need to increase tax...and thats and 18billion deficit...and as pointed out we have already paid 2billion more in the first 6 months the total supposedly saved over the last 4 years via the CPA saving measures and the pension levy .....and yet PS will come on looking for more taxes , tax on savings, more tax on private pensions...and knowing that this is not working...Sure lets get the guys on the dole...Now the dole is overly generous and will be cut as there is no protection mechanism ala the CPA for the public sector...Sure look at OBrien of SIPTU trying to defend the fcukers in FAS with their 70 days leave for the the last 2 years before retirement..So they can acclimatise...C'mon Robbie surely condescending and Patronising is the least that you should expect I actually think its got worse than that people are looking at this crap going on and are very very angry.

Lumbo

kceire wrote: »

i actually done that in 2005
got a 6k pay rise from my lovely Private Sector boss

That would bug the **** out of me. We would have put a lot of time/money into getting the best candidate and then the minute they'd ask for the offer letter, you could tell from the way they asked for it what they were up to.

Drove me ****in la la at the time.

fliball123

kceire wrote: »

Here :



the tax payer in this case includes the PS :rolleyes:

Also if you want to discount the PS as paying tax, then atleast post the Nett cost of the PS and stop spouting the Gross cost :rolleyes:



i actually done that in 2005
got a 6k pay rise from my lovely Private Sector boss

how is it waffle..

One of your own Godge spelt it out to me saying something like 2.2 billion saved via cpa savings and pension levy over the last four years...Google income tax 2011 and look for the first 6 months and with an ever decreasing pool of private sector employees due to 4 businesses going out of business every week and joining the dole queue..(Feel free to google this aswell)...the income tax has increased by 2 billion from this time last year...Google away ... if you dont believe me..I never said anything about PS not being included in the tax payer bracket if I did show me..Good for you getting a 6k rised from the private sector..How much as a tax payer did I have to contribute to that...Answers on a post card...

Also as I pointed out people are waking up to the correlation between what we save in cuts and what we have to pay in tax....

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Have a look at how many ps posters have said this..the posts are there in black and white..and its a non sense...People have woken up the reality of the correlation between how much we need to cut and if its not cut we need to increase tax...and thats and 18billion deficit...and as pointed out we have already paid 2billion more in the first 6 months the total supposedly saved over the last 4 years via the CPA saving measures and the pension levy .....and yet PS will come on looking for more taxes , tax on savings, more tax on private pensions...and knowing that this is not working...Sure lets get the guys on the dole...Now the dole is overly generous and will be cut as there is no protection mechanism ala the CPA for the public sector...Sure look at OBrien of SIPTU trying to defend the fcukers in FAS with their 70 days leave for the the last 2 years before retirement..So they can acclimatise...C'mon Robbie surely condescending and Patronising is the least that you should expect I actually think its got worse than that people are looking at this crap going on and are very very angry.

Who is looking at this and getting angry?

The previous thread we had on this was all about how the IMF/ECB was going to cut the PS so bad, and the gloating to go with it was disgusting (a bit typical of irish people though).
The last time they (IMF) reviewed the books they were satisfied with the cuts made and the manner they were being made in the PS.
So now instead of threats of the IMF you have changed your tune to mass public anger against the PS.

So i have two more questions fliball.

Do you speak on behalf of the entire private sector, are you their spokesperson?

How has this anger at the PS so far been expressed or how have you come to the conclusion that their is mass outrage at the PS employees?

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Who is looking at this and getting angry?

The previous thread we had on this was all about how the IMF/ECB was going to cut the PS so bad, and the gloating to go with it was disgusting (a bit typical of irish people though).
The last time they (IMF) reviewed the books they were satisfied with the cuts made and the manner they were being made in the PS.
So now instead of threats of the IMF you have changed your tune to mass public anger against the PS.

So i have two more questions fliball.

Do you speak on behalf of the entire private sector, are you their spokesperson?

How has this anger at the PS so far been expressed or how have you come to the conclusion that their is mass outrage at the PS employees?

Sorry Maybe I wasnt clear I meant looking at whats going on currently with FAS/Solais/Siptu

and I admit I have gloated at the idea of PS cuts in a previous posts on different threads which has been put in my face by one or two ps workers but what they didnt show was the post in which I retracted my statement..as at the time it was an emotional time for me and I put my hand up..I dont wish any hardship on anyone...and everyone is fighting their corner..but it breaks down to 3 different groups under 2 headings as the OAPs dont seem to be on the table because they vote

the 3 groups Private sector / public sector / Dole recievers

the 2 heading tax / cuts

and the figure is 18 billion

for every Euro Not cut it will be taxed...For every Euro not cut from the PS it will be taken from the dole...Do you aggree? So as I say when you see people paying 2billion more in the 1st 6 months of the year than this time last year...and the new household tax, water charges, carbon taxes and new tolls which all make it harder for the tax payer (both ps and private ) to work but the fact remains if we cut then there is not as much need for tax..that is the vs here cuts vs taxes...I want to get away from the PS bashing some do a very good job some dont..same in the private sector but we dont pay for that.

As for the anger question have a look at the posts, look a the papers, look at the majority of ecconmists who all aggree even the reports some reports even coming in via the public sector bodies are coming out with figures that you are over paid in comparison to the private sector and other OCED countries...

As an example the whole FAS/Siptu sh1tstorm going on...The gov should say these holidays are gone with nothing conceeded and if Siptu go on strike over this I garentee you will see a lot of anger towards the public sector.

Lumbo

fliball123 wrote: »

As an example the whole FAS/Siptu sh1tstorm going on...The gov should say these holidays are gone with nothing conceeded and if Siptu go on strike over this I garentee you will see a lot of anger towards the public sector.

What is happening in FAS is that management have decided to take away an allowance that was given (I haven't for the life of me no idea why they got something like that).

This would have been an agreement that was lodged with the Labour Court. What SIPTU are saying is that Management just can't rip up the agreement & their members must be compensated for the loss. This happens in both Private & Public organisations.

So the issue isn't really all the days extra holidays they are getting. It's the process of solving any issues Management have with Unions. The problem isn't necessarily with Management or SIPTU, it's with the process of the Labour Court system. But that's another days story.

fliball123

Lumbo wrote: »

What is happening in FAS is that management have decided to take away an allowance that was given (I haven't for the life of me no idea why they got something like that).

This would have been an agreement that was lodged with the Labour Court. What SIPTU are saying is that Management just can't rip up the agreement & their members must be compensated for the loss. This happens in both Private & Public organisations.

So the issue isn't really all the days extra holidays they are getting. It's the process of solving any issues Management have with Unions. The problem isn't necessarily with Management or SIPTU, it's with the process of the Labour Court system. But that's another days story.

Sorry you will find in most Private sector companies if the company is going under the contract signed is not worth the paper it was wrtten on..As I said the gov should moxy up and say ITS GONE get over it no concessions..if you have a problem strike ...its the Union mantra and this O'Brien character of Siptu was on newstalk spouting it needed to be negotiated away...and people wonder why the rest of the country are up in arms over the PS and Unions?

monara

The difference in pay between public and private sectors is actually much greater than 44% when you consider that public sector workers generally work only half time- the rest of the time is tea, lunch, coffee and other breaks. Oh, and training of course.:D

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry you will find in most Private sector companies if the company is going under the contract signed is not worth the paper it was wrtten on..As I said the gov should moxy up and say ITS GONE get over it no concessions..if you have a problem strike ...its the Union mantra and this O'Brien character of Siptu was on newstalk spouting it needed to be negotiated away...and people wonder why the rest of the country are up in arms over the PS and Unions?

Fliball I really dont think this is right and would suggest you read up on some decision handed down by the labour court.
We also have employment laws in this country and if a person has a contract for such then i dont think the company can legally just ignore any obligations under that contract.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry Maybe I wasnt clear I meant looking at whats going on currently with FAS/Solais/Siptu

and I admit I have gloated at the idea of PS cuts in a previous posts on different threads which has been put in my face by one or two ps workers but what they didnt show was the post in which I retracted my statement..as at the time it was an emotional time for me and I put my hand up..I dont wish any hardship on anyone...and everyone is fighting their corner..but it breaks down to 3 different groups under 2 headings as the OAPs dont seem to be on the table because they vote

the 3 groups Private sector / public sector / Dole recievers

the 2 heading tax / cuts

and the figure is 18 billion

for every Euro Not cut it will be taxed...For every Euro not cut from the PS it will be taken from the dole...Do you aggree? So as I say when you see people paying 2billion more in the 1st 6 months of the year than this time last year...and the new household tax, water charges, carbon taxes and new tolls which all make it harder for the tax payer (both ps and private ) to work but the fact remains if we cut then there is not as much need for tax..that is the vs here cuts vs taxes...I want to get away from the PS bashing some do a very good job some dont..same in the private sector but we dont pay for that.

As for the anger question have a look at the posts, look a the papers, look at the majority of ecconmists who all aggree even the reports some reports even coming in via the public sector bodies are coming out with figures that you are over paid in comparison to the private sector and other OCED countries...

As an example the whole FAS/Siptu sh1tstorm going on...The gov should say these holidays are gone with nothing conceeded and if Siptu go on strike over this I garentee you will see a lot of anger towards the public sector.

I quoted a post earlier talking about condescending attitude from PS assumming the source for most information was the media, and when I ask you thats what you name as your source!

As for the threads here, we all know boards is not really a perfect representation of irish society and sentiment. Just remember back to the boards election and then compare that to what acctually happened.
While there was anger shown here to FF the same utter destruction of the party didnt happen in the polls and likewise the shaming of the greens wasnt reflected here.
So what im saying is boards is not a good representation of overall irish opinion and your casual (and biased) assesment of it makes it an even worse a barometer of public opinion


Then lastly in your post you bring up some hypothetical situation to show how much anger there is at the PS, but this striking hasnt happened and neither has your predicted outrage in the public.
Why?
Well because its hypothetical!

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Fliball I really dont think this is right and would suggest you read up on some decision handed down by the labour court.
We also have employment laws in this country and if a person has a contract for such then i dont think the company can legally just ignore any obligations under that contract.

You show me where I and other tax payers were shown this before the contract was changed or done up....It is right its a fcuking disgrace if these cnuts are offered anything for these extra holidays we are no longer in 2006

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

You show me where I and other tax payers were shown this before the contract was changed or done up....It is right its a fcuking disgrace if these cnuts are offered anything for these extra holidays we are no longer in 2006

What?

Do you want the public to vote on every matter an elected government is suppossed to oversee. :D:D

Your great gas!

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

What?

Do you want the public to vote on every matter an elected government is suppossed to oversee. :D:D

Your great gas!

So you aggree with these holidays...really really Robbie...what fcuking planet are you on

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

So you aggree with these holidays...really really Robbie...what fcuking planet are you on

Do you answer any questions i pose?


When did I say these holidays were deserved, in fact until this post when did I even use the word holiday in this thread?


Your mock outrage to disguise your avoidance of questions is comical!

Jaysoose

fliball123 wrote: »

So you aggree with these holidays...really really Robbie...what fcuking planet are you on

Dont sink to this level fliball..the guy is purposely winding you up.