Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Oslo Terrorist speaks about MW2

Options
  • 24-07-2011 12:14am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭


    I know a huge thread in AH about this, but this relates to gaming.
    Pretty hurtful stuff for gaming here kotaku.com
    Oslo Terrorist Used Modern Warfare 2 as "Training-Simulation", World of Warcraft as Cover
    Owen Good and Michael McWhertor — The accused shooter in yesterday's massacre in Norway has been linked to 1,500 page manifesto that recommends using Call of Duty to train combat skills for an upcoming war with Islam.

    Anders Behring Breivik also suggests that an obsession with massively-multiplayer role playing game World of Warcraft, which he was known to play, is a useful cover story to explain the time one is actually spending plotting attacks.
    "I just bought Modern Warfare 2, the game," he writes, under "Andrew Berwick" (an Anglicization of his Norwegian name). "It is probably the best military simulator out there and it's one of the hottest games this year. ... I see MW2 more as a part of my training-simulation than anything else. I've still learned to love it though and especially the multiplayer part is amazing. You can more or less completely simulate actual operations."

    Police have not officially confirmed the manifesto is Breivik's but it contains multiple references to his actual name, his height, weight and place of origin, his World of Warcraft activities, server and his handle ("Conservativism" and "Conservative"). The manifesto was originally found by Kevin Slaughter, who posted a Google doc link to it through his Twitter feed.

    Breivik, 32, is in custody after Friday's horrific attacks in and outside of Oslo, in which seven were killed by a bomb and another 85 were gunned down at a youth camp. Police described Breivik as a gun-loving, right-wing religious fundamentalist who saw Muslim immigration as a threat to his country's culture.

    "2083: A European Declaration of Independence" identifies not just Muslims as a target but also agents of multiculturalism and "cultural Marxism" (or "political correctness") which he sees as abetting a Muslim immigration that will overrun Europe. Indeed, yesterday's shooting rampage targeted a youth camp where children of Norway's current ruling party were vacationing.

    In addition to more practical means of gun training, such as visiting firing ranges and countries with relaxed gun laws, Breivik also says that military shooters like Modern Warfare are a way to keep one's skills sharp.

    "Simulation by playing Call of Duty, Modern Warfare is a good alternative as well but you should try to get some practise with a real assault rifle (with red point optic) if possible," he writes under a section titled "Marksmanship Training".

    As preparing for what are essentially terrorist operations can raise suspicions, typically over one's lack of money, or time spent away from friends and family, Breivik suggests "using social taboos is an extremely effective method from preventing people who know you well from digging too much." One such taboo is an obsession with World of Warcraft.

    "F[or] example, tell them that you have started to play World of Warcraft or any other online MMO game and that you wish to focus on this for the next months/year," Breivik writes. "This "new project" can justify isolation and people will understand somewhat why you are not answering your phone over long periods. Tell them that you are completely hooked on the game (raiding dungeons etc)."

    "You will be amazed on how much you can do undetected while blaming this game," he continues. "If your planning requires you to travel, say that you are visiting one of your WoW friends, or better yet, a girl from your "guild" (who lives in another country). No further questions will be raised if you present these arguments."

    Breivik says he spent three years writing the manifesto. In the first year, he played World of Warcraft "hardcore", living "very ascetic" and in isolation. "I feel that this period was needed in order to completely detach myself from ‘the game,' my ‘former shallow consumerist lifestyle' in order to ensure full focus on the matters at hand."

    Elsewhere, in diary entries, Breivik mentions playing Fallout 3, BioShock 2 and Dragon Age: Origins but does not ascribe any training or ideological purpose to them.

    Since the shooting, Breivik's former guildmates have taken to European World of Warcraft forums to make sense of the killings and Breivik's alleged involvement. In forum posts they have described him as a down-to-earth, "overall nice guy," unable "to harm a fly."

    His WoW page, under the handle Conservativism, was inaccessible as of this morning but Breivik had apparently stopped playing Warcraft five months ago.

    Although Breivik calls "hardcore dungeon raiding" a "dream" of his in the manifesto, he suggests that friends found his Warcraft involvement a good explanation, as intended, for his double life. "I have managed to channel these suspicions far away from relating to my political convictions. Instead they suspect that I am playing WoW (and trying to hide it)," he wrote.

    Kotaku has contacted Modern Warfare 2 publisher Activision for comment. They have not replied at this time.


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    With respect, should this person (as per a court's judgement) have been shown to have played these games, it in no way constitutes a binding legal connection between him and the vast majority of the gamer community who use these in a proper way. No doubt there will be a similar type of linkage to games, as per Doom/Columbine, and calls for there banning by sections of the press. This would make as much sense as seeking to ban PCs in general if he used one to plan the attacks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    This guy is deluding himself if he thought playing those kinds of games in any way helped him aim better. At the VERY best, it could show you how to reload a weapon and familiarise yourself with the parts of it and possibly even how to grip it correctly but even that's a stretch. Holding a controller does not make you good at aiming real weapons which have a much heavier physical weight, recoil and bulk on your person (which completely changes the experience).

    All those hours playing games served him was damaging his eyesight and quickening his reaction time. One may have aided his task, the other probably hindered it unless he was wearing glasses or contact lenses.

    Never the less, the Sarah-Palin-esque types as well as all the video game-blamers are gonna be all over this like flies on shyte. Probably never hear the end of it. Damn terrorist ruining everything now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,583 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    R.I.P to all the innocents who died in that attack, truly tragic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭KilOit


    This guy is deluding himself if he thought playing those kinds of games in any way helped him aim better. At the VERY best, it could show you how to reload a weapon and familiarise yourself with the parts of it and possibly even how to grip it correctly but even that's a stretch. Holding a controller does not make you good at aiming real weapons which have a much heavier physical weight, recoil and bulk on your person (which completely changes the experience).

    All those hours playing games served him was damaging his eyesight and quickening his reaction time. One may have aided his task, the other probably hindered it unless he was wearing glasses or contact lenses.

    Never the less, the Sarah-Palin-esque types as well as all the video game-blamers are gonna be all over this like flies on shyte. Probably never hear the end of it. Damn terrorist ruining everything now.

    Very true, playing fps games since there was fps games and when i got a chance to use an ak47 in Cambodia i couldn't hit a target the size of a dartboard from 100 feet away with a full magazine, the gun felt so foreign to me and recoil was nothing like i expected. maybe the games could be used for tactics, but for weapons training, no chance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Twilightning


    It's obvious the guy has some sort of a major screw loose if he thinks Modern Warfare 2 is the epitome of a realistic war shooter.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭Newaglish


    I'd be more concerned about banning the actual guns rather than a game which he feels taught him how to use it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    I wondered how long before this spin was put on things, heavens forbid they would focus on him being a crap christian.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    COD players are all insane: discuss.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    MW2 is realistic? if I'd known you can jump off buildings and not die and make your body heat invisible to thermal imaging I would have joined the army years ago.

    games are an easy target, always have been


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    This guy is deluding himself if he thought playing those kinds of games in any way helped him aim better.
    KilOit wrote: »
    maybe the games could be used for tactics, but for weapons training, no chance.

    He shot and killed 84 people, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss whatever he did for training.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,212 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Gaming is the 'moral panic' of the moment. Older generations are unfamiliar and hence scared if it. The occasional pyscho using an FPS as their main manifesto helps us very little, but it's our job to help gain a new artistic medium the attention it deserves. After all, I'm sure our Norweigan lunatic has watched Die Hard too, and hasn't Reservoir Dogs been proven to have spawned copycat killings? Mass murder existed before games, and will continue to. Where are all the mainstream media denouncing the Beatles for influencing Manson these days? To boil everything down to simplistic 'causes' is worse: refusing to examine serious faults in society in any depth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    Frankly the 24/7 media coverage of this lunatic is far more likely to inspire copycat acts than any video game possibly could.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Mr.Saturn


    All this adds is confirmation that the guy had a dire taste in gaming that he can add to résumé of him being a mentally impotent cretin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 82,016 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Police described Breivik as a gun-loving, right-wing religious fundamentalist who saw Muslim immigration as a threat to his country's culture.
    I will delect in the political response from American GOP supporters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 980 ✭✭✭Hercule


    what an absolute "slow-news-day" farce - i take it they are clutching at straws trying to make a story out of what is a disgusting and tragic event


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    man, when you see me strafe jumping over o connell bridge with 60% shaft accuracy thats when you'sa guys start running


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Zillah wrote: »
    He shot and killed 84 people, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss whatever he did for training.

    I take your point, and I'm not a gun nut or anything, but there really isn't much correlation between the process of firing at somebody in a game versus doing it for real. There's a few reasons for this aside from the obvious, not least that videogame "enemies" tend to be designed ultimately to be shot by the player, and so follow a set of predictable behaviours.

    I play airsoft, and the more hardcore or army type dudes take great pleasure in disabusing Call of Duty fans of this (understandable) assumption. Those aren't even real guns with the attendant real weight, recoil, ammunition or accuracy considerations. It takes your whole body to fire an assault rifle effectively, and it takes quite a bit of experience to learn how to keep that rifle accurate while firing at a succession of moving targets. He would have acquired both in the army. Videogames might have helped polish visual reflexes, but not to a significant degree.

    In so far as Modern Warfare is relevant in this context, it seems to me more likely to be a convenient playground for him to exercise his burgeoning violent urges until he could enact them in the real world. There is a now-infamous sequence in MW2 that would have suited this purpose neatly, stripped of any context, and I suspect we'll be hearing all about that over the next few days. That the player is supposed to be repulsed by this sequence is a nuance that may have been lost on him.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 9,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭mayordenis


    Zillah wrote: »
    He shot and killed 84 people, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss whatever he did for training.

    He shot 84 fish in a barrell. There were any amount of people on a tiny island who couldn't escape. Practicing firing a rifle on COD? I'll tell you that there is no comparison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭Funky


    Religious fanatics giving everyone else a bad name, what's new.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    Right wing extremist with a hatred/fear of Muslims.... end of.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,732 ✭✭✭Magill


    I thought this was interesting... especially the minute.

    Top comment on the video pretty much sums it up for me.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,013 Mod ✭✭✭✭jaykhunter


    Thanks, scumbag religious extremist, for trying to take down our medium with you.

    an aside :
    What'll annoy me more is that news outlets have found their next "sex-box", "porn simulator", rape-causer" assinine denigration of video games. I don't see any hardcore FM2011 players being signed up to manage any premiership teams. But sure now we'll hear games causing this kind of horrific dead, and many ignorant people will take it on board. :mad:

    Anyway that's a drop in the ocean to the real tragedy which is 92 people have died in Norway over the last few days. :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Kadongy


    wrt the concept that fps games could be used to teach actual combat skills: There is evidence to support this idea. Counter Strike has been used to train police:

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Counter-Strike-Training-Ground-for-Tianjin-039-s-Police-Officers-67060.shtml

    It has also been used to train soldiers:

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-06/29/content_12797469.htm

    Obviously it would teach nothing about actual gun handling - but yes tactical knowledge could be gained, and appropriate responses to situations trained.

    There is also a stronger argument than usual that the game [MW2] might have influenced his decision to do this. That level that is referred to by a previous poster involves you getting into disguise and going around a closed environment killing unarmed innocent people. This man got into a disguise and went around a closed environment killing lots of innocent people. As mentioned, the level is very disturbing to most players. It is a realistic game in a modern setting.

    It was also mentioned that single player games involve shooting bots, and that the bots are typically significantly inferior to human players. So playing single player games like this can allow the player to imagine themselves more skillful or effective than they actually are. And the things they are killing are not actually human. It engenders a different feeling to playing multiplayer games where the odds arent heavily skewed in your favour. In a single player game you are the central character, the hero of the story, with superior abilities to your enemies.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,972 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Anyone that thinks MW2 is a war simulator rather than a Michael Bay simulator has obvious delusion problems. I hear the US media is completely ignoring the fact that it was probably his extremist christian and right wing views that were the most likely trigger.
    Kadongy wrote: »
    wrt the concept that fps games could be used to teach actual combat skills: There is evidence to support this idea. Counter Strike has been used to train police:

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Counter-Strike-Training-Ground-for-Tianjin-039-s-Police-Officers-67060.shtml

    It has also been used to train soldiers:

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-06/29/content_12797469.htm

    Two wonderfully awful journalistic sorces there that you can't trust.


  • Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭figarofigaro


    If I was looking for something to blame for what this man did I'd be quicker to point the finger at ultra conservatives and christian zealots as opposed to video games.
    Really though, the man is a different breed to the rest of us and I'd be reluctant to point the finger at anybody or anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    Omg... And that's when I thought people were looking at gamers with a little bit respect...

    He is scumbag, what he did, it did not involved skill. He shot 85 people on little island where noone could run away. Fecking hero...

    r.I.p. All the victims. He should not be killed, no. He should be putten in jail where 10 big fellas with skull tattoos would rape his ass every 5 minutes then make him eat **** all day long!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,477 ✭✭✭✭Raze_them_all


    Man video games are training now?? Then why am I not the ufc welterweight champ?? I've been playing mortal Kombat for over 15 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    To all those using the "FPS can train you for this" idea:

    I don't remember that level in {insert FPS game} where you bomb a place as a distraction, then wangle your way to a secluded resort, and shoot terrified, UNARMED children.
    Care to enlighten me which game can prepare you for this?
    :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Kadongy


    K.O.Kiki wrote: »
    To all those using the "FPS can train you for this" idea:

    I don't remember that level in {insert FPS game} where you bomb a place as a distraction, then wangle your way to a secluded resort, and shoot terrified, UNARMED children.
    Care to enlighten me which game can prepare you for this?
    :confused:
    You go around killing innocent unarmed people in a level of MW2 - that is the whole point here really.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,477 ✭✭✭✭Raze_them_all


    Kadongy wrote: »
    You go around killing innocent unarmed people in a level of MW2 - that is the whole point here really.
    As part of a terrorist group.

    I can drive an f1 car in games. Doesn't mean you'll see me out there making bits of alonso and co


Advertisement