Oslo Terrorist speaks about MW2

KilOit

I know a huge thread in AH about this, but this relates to gaming.
Pretty hurtful stuff for gaming here kotaku.com

Oslo Terrorist Used Modern Warfare 2 as "Training-Simulation", World of Warcraft as Cover
Owen Good and Michael McWhertor — The accused shooter in yesterday's massacre in Norway has been linked to 1,500 page manifesto that recommends using Call of Duty to train combat skills for an upcoming war with Islam.

Anders Behring Breivik also suggests that an obsession with massively-multiplayer role playing game World of Warcraft, which he was known to play, is a useful cover story to explain the time one is actually spending plotting attacks.
"I just bought Modern Warfare 2, the game," he writes, under "Andrew Berwick" (an Anglicization of his Norwegian name). "It is probably the best military simulator out there and it's one of the hottest games this year. ... I see MW2 more as a part of my training-simulation than anything else. I've still learned to love it though and especially the multiplayer part is amazing. You can more or less completely simulate actual operations."

Police have not officially confirmed the manifesto is Breivik's but it contains multiple references to his actual name, his height, weight and place of origin, his World of Warcraft activities, server and his handle ("Conservativism" and "Conservative"). The manifesto was originally found by Kevin Slaughter, who posted a Google doc link to it through his Twitter feed.

Breivik, 32, is in custody after Friday's horrific attacks in and outside of Oslo, in which seven were killed by a bomb and another 85 were gunned down at a youth camp. Police described Breivik as a gun-loving, right-wing religious fundamentalist who saw Muslim immigration as a threat to his country's culture.

"2083: A European Declaration of Independence" identifies not just Muslims as a target but also agents of multiculturalism and "cultural Marxism" (or "political correctness") which he sees as abetting a Muslim immigration that will overrun Europe. Indeed, yesterday's shooting rampage targeted a youth camp where children of Norway's current ruling party were vacationing.

In addition to more practical means of gun training, such as visiting firing ranges and countries with relaxed gun laws, Breivik also says that military shooters like Modern Warfare are a way to keep one's skills sharp.

"Simulation by playing Call of Duty, Modern Warfare is a good alternative as well but you should try to get some practise with a real assault rifle (with red point optic) if possible," he writes under a section titled "Marksmanship Training".

As preparing for what are essentially terrorist operations can raise suspicions, typically over one's lack of money, or time spent away from friends and family, Breivik suggests "using social taboos is an extremely effective method from preventing people who know you well from digging too much." One such taboo is an obsession with World of Warcraft.

"F[or] example, tell them that you have started to play World of Warcraft or any other online MMO game and that you wish to focus on this for the next months/year," Breivik writes. "This "new project" can justify isolation and people will understand somewhat why you are not answering your phone over long periods. Tell them that you are completely hooked on the game (raiding dungeons etc)."

"You will be amazed on how much you can do undetected while blaming this game," he continues. "If your planning requires you to travel, say that you are visiting one of your WoW friends, or better yet, a girl from your "guild" (who lives in another country). No further questions will be raised if you present these arguments."

Breivik says he spent three years writing the manifesto. In the first year, he played World of Warcraft "hardcore", living "very ascetic" and in isolation. "I feel that this period was needed in order to completely detach myself from ‘the game,' my ‘former shallow consumerist lifestyle' in order to ensure full focus on the matters at hand."

Elsewhere, in diary entries, Breivik mentions playing Fallout 3, BioShock 2 and Dragon Age: Origins but does not ascribe any training or ideological purpose to them.

Since the shooting, Breivik's former guildmates have taken to European World of Warcraft forums to make sense of the killings and Breivik's alleged involvement. In forum posts they have described him as a down-to-earth, "overall nice guy," unable "to harm a fly."

His WoW page, under the handle Conservativism, was inaccessible as of this morning but Breivik had apparently stopped playing Warcraft five months ago.

Although Breivik calls "hardcore dungeon raiding" a "dream" of his in the manifesto, he suggests that friends found his Warcraft involvement a good explanation, as intended, for his double life. "I have managed to channel these suspicions far away from relating to my political convictions. Instead they suspect that I am playing WoW (and trying to hide it)," he wrote.

Kotaku has contacted Modern Warfare 2 publisher Activision for comment. They have not replied at this time.

Manach

With respect, should this person (as per a court's judgement) have been shown to have played these games, it in no way constitutes a binding legal connection between him and the vast majority of the gamer community who use these in a proper way. No doubt there will be a similar type of linkage to games, as per Doom/Columbine, and calls for there banning by sections of the press. This would make as much sense as seeking to ban PCs in general if he used one to plan the attacks.

Robert ninja

This guy is deluding himself if he thought playing those kinds of games in any way helped him aim better. At the VERY best, it could show you how to reload a weapon and familiarise yourself with the parts of it and possibly even how to grip it correctly but even that's a stretch. Holding a controller does not make you good at aiming real weapons which have a much heavier physical weight, recoil and bulk on your person (which completely changes the experience).

All those hours playing games served him was damaging his eyesight and quickening his reaction time. One may have aided his task, the other probably hindered it unless he was wearing glasses or contact lenses.

Never the less, the Sarah-Palin-esque types as well as all the video game-blamers are gonna be all over this like flies on shyte. Probably never hear the end of it. Damn terrorist ruining everything now.

Zero-Cool

R.I.P to all the innocents who died in that attack, truly tragic.

KilOit

Robert ninja wrote: »

This guy is deluding himself if he thought playing those kinds of games in any way helped him aim better. At the VERY best, it could show you how to reload a weapon and familiarise yourself with the parts of it and possibly even how to grip it correctly but even that's a stretch. Holding a controller does not make you good at aiming real weapons which have a much heavier physical weight, recoil and bulk on your person (which completely changes the experience).

All those hours playing games served him was damaging his eyesight and quickening his reaction time. One may have aided his task, the other probably hindered it unless he was wearing glasses or contact lenses.

Never the less, the Sarah-Palin-esque types as well as all the video game-blamers are gonna be all over this like flies on shyte. Probably never hear the end of it. Damn terrorist ruining everything now.

Very true, playing fps games since there was fps games and when i got a chance to use an ak47 in Cambodia i couldn't hit a target the size of a dartboard from 100 feet away with a full magazine, the gun felt so foreign to me and recoil was nothing like i expected. maybe the games could be used for tactics, but for weapons training, no chance.

Twilightning

It's obvious the guy has some sort of a major screw loose if he thinks Modern Warfare 2 is the epitome of a realistic war shooter.

Newaglish

I'd be more concerned about banning the actual guns rather than a game which he feels taught him how to use it.

Morag

I wondered how long before this spin was put on things, heavens forbid they would focus on him being a crap christian.

K.O.Kiki

COD players are all insane: discuss.

krudler

MW2 is realistic? if I'd known you can jump off buildings and not die and make your body heat invisible to thermal imaging I would have joined the army years ago.

games are an easy target, always have been

Zillah

Robert ninja wrote: »

This guy is deluding himself if he thought playing those kinds of games in any way helped him aim better.

KilOit wrote: »

maybe the games could be used for tactics, but for weapons training, no chance.

He shot and killed 84 people, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss whatever he did for training.

johnny_ultimate

Gaming is the 'moral panic' of the moment. Older generations are unfamiliar and hence scared if it. The occasional pyscho using an FPS as their main manifesto helps us very little, but it's our job to help gain a new artistic medium the attention it deserves. After all, I'm sure our Norweigan lunatic has watched Die Hard too, and hasn't Reservoir Dogs been proven to have spawned copycat killings? Mass murder existed before games, and will continue to. Where are all the mainstream media denouncing the Beatles for influencing Manson these days? To boil everything down to simplistic 'causes' is worse: refusing to examine serious faults in society in any depth.

sink

Frankly the 24/7 media coverage of this lunatic is far more likely to inspire copycat acts than any video game possibly could.

Mr.Saturn

All this adds is confirmation that the guy had a dire taste in gaming that he can add to résumé of him being a mentally impotent cretin.

Overheal

Police described Breivik as a gun-loving, right-wing religious fundamentalist who saw Muslim immigration as a threat to his country's culture.

I will delect in the political response from American GOP supporters.

Hercule

what an absolute "slow-news-day" farce - i take it they are clutching at straws trying to make a story out of what is a disgusting and tragic event

Jazzy

man, when you see me strafe jumping over o connell bridge with 60% shaft accuracy thats when you'sa guys start running

jill_valentine

Zillah wrote: »

He shot and killed 84 people, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss whatever he did for training.

I take your point, and I'm not a gun nut or anything, but there really isn't much correlation between the process of firing at somebody in a game versus doing it for real. There's a few reasons for this aside from the obvious, not least that videogame "enemies" tend to be designed ultimately to be shot by the player, and so follow a set of predictable behaviours.

I play airsoft, and the more hardcore or army type dudes take great pleasure in disabusing Call of Duty fans of this (understandable) assumption. Those aren't even real guns with the attendant real weight, recoil, ammunition or accuracy considerations. It takes your whole body to fire an assault rifle effectively, and it takes quite a bit of experience to learn how to keep that rifle accurate while firing at a succession of moving targets. He would have acquired both in the army. Videogames might have helped polish visual reflexes, but not to a significant degree.

In so far as Modern Warfare is relevant in this context, it seems to me more likely to be a convenient playground for him to exercise his burgeoning violent urges until he could enact them in the real world. There is a now-infamous sequence in MW2 that would have suited this purpose neatly, stripped of any context, and I suspect we'll be hearing all about that over the next few days. That the player is supposed to be repulsed by this sequence is a nuance that may have been lost on him.

mayordenis

Zillah wrote: »

He shot and killed 84 people, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss whatever he did for training.

He shot 84 fish in a barrell. There were any amount of people on a tiny island who couldn't escape. Practicing firing a rifle on COD? I'll tell you that there is no comparison.

Funky

Religious fanatics giving everyone else a bad name, what's new.

Taltos

Right wing extremist with a hatred/fear of Muslims.... end of.

Magill

I thought this was interesting... especially the minute.

Top comment on the video pretty much sums it up for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

jaykhunter

Thanks, scumbag religious extremist, for trying to take down our medium with you.

an aside :
What'll annoy me more is that news outlets have found their next "sex-box", "porn simulator", rape-causer" assinine denigration of video games. I don't see any hardcore FM2011 players being signed up to manage any premiership teams. But sure now we'll hear games causing this kind of horrific dead, and many ignorant people will take it on board. :mad:

Anyway that's a drop in the ocean to the real tragedy which is 92 people have died in Norway over the last few days.

Kadongy

wrt the concept that fps games could be used to teach actual combat skills: There is evidence to support this idea. Counter Strike has been used to train police:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Counter-Strike-Training-Ground-for-Tianjin-039-s-Police-Officers-67060.shtml

It has also been used to train soldiers:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-06/29/content_12797469.htm

Obviously it would teach nothing about actual gun handling - but yes tactical knowledge could be gained, and appropriate responses to situations trained.

There is also a stronger argument than usual that the game [MW2] might have influenced his decision to do this. That level that is referred to by a previous poster involves you getting into disguise and going around a closed environment killing unarmed innocent people. This man got into a disguise and went around a closed environment killing lots of innocent people. As mentioned, the level is very disturbing to most players. It is a realistic game in a modern setting.

It was also mentioned that single player games involve shooting bots, and that the bots are typically significantly inferior to human players. So playing single player games like this can allow the player to imagine themselves more skillful or effective than they actually are. And the things they are killing are not actually human. It engenders a different feeling to playing multiplayer games where the odds arent heavily skewed in your favour. In a single player game you are the central character, the hero of the story, with superior abilities to your enemies.

Retr0gamer

Anyone that thinks MW2 is a war simulator rather than a Michael Bay simulator has obvious delusion problems. I hear the US media is completely ignoring the fact that it was probably his extremist christian and right wing views that were the most likely trigger.

Kadongy wrote: »

wrt the concept that fps games could be used to teach actual combat skills: There is evidence to support this idea. Counter Strike has been used to train police:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Counter-Strike-Training-Ground-for-Tianjin-039-s-Police-Officers-67060.shtml

It has also been used to train soldiers:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-06/29/content_12797469.htm

Two wonderfully awful journalistic sorces there that you can't trust.

figarofigaro

If I was looking for something to blame for what this man did I'd be quicker to point the finger at ultra conservatives and christian zealots as opposed to video games.
Really though, the man is a different breed to the rest of us and I'd be reluctant to point the finger at anybody or anything.

ShadowHearth

Omg... And that's when I thought people were looking at gamers with a little bit respect...

He is scumbag, what he did, it did not involved skill. He shot 85 people on little island where noone could run away. Fecking hero...

r.I.p. All the victims. He should not be killed, no. He should be putten in jail where 10 big fellas with skull tattoos would rape his ass every 5 minutes then make him eat **** all day long!

Raze_them_all

Man video games are training now?? Then why am I not the ufc welterweight champ?? I've been playing mortal Kombat for over 15 years.

K.O.Kiki

To all those using the "FPS can train you for this" idea:

I don't remember that level in {insert FPS game} where you bomb a place as a distraction, then wangle your way to a secluded resort, and shoot terrified, UNARMED children.
Care to enlighten me which game can prepare you for this?

Kadongy

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

To all those using the "FPS can train you for this" idea:

I don't remember that level in {insert FPS game} where you bomb a place as a distraction, then wangle your way to a secluded resort, and shoot terrified, UNARMED children.
Care to enlighten me which game can prepare you for this?

You go around killing innocent unarmed people in a level of MW2 - that is the whole point here really.

Raze_them_all

Kadongy wrote: »

You go around killing innocent unarmed people in a level of MW2 - that is the whole point here really.

As part of a terrorist group.

I can drive an f1 car in games. Doesn't mean you'll see me out there making bits of alonso and co

ShadowHearth

Kadongy wrote: »

You go around killing innocent unarmed people in a level of MW2 - that is the whole point here really.

i played that level more times then i finished mw2. just for **** and giggles.

there must be something wrong with me! :rolleyes:

Games do not make MONSTERS, if person is allready fecked in the head, games will be just an addon to theyr madness.

i played games since i was 5. I killed a population of small country in those games by this time. killed maybe 100 today alone. somehow i dont have any sort of need in killing people in real life... wierd :eek:

Magill

Kadongy wrote: »

wrt the concept that fps games could be used to teach actual combat skills: There is evidence to support this idea. Counter Strike has been used to train police:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Counter-Strike-Training-Ground-for-Tianjin-039-s-Police-Officers-67060.shtml

It has also been used to train soldiers:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-06/29/content_12797469.htm

Obviously it would teach nothing about actual gun handling - but yes tactical knowledge could be gained, and appropriate responses to situations trained.

There is also a stronger argument than usual that the game [MW2] might have influenced his decision to do this. That level that is referred to by a previous poster involves you getting into disguise and going around a closed environment killing unarmed innocent people. This man got into a disguise and went around a closed environment killing lots of innocent people. As mentioned, the level is very disturbing to most players. It is a realistic game in a modern setting.

It was also mentioned that single player games involve shooting bots, and that the bots are typically significantly inferior to human players. So playing single player games like this can allow the player to imagine themselves more skillful or effective than they actually are. And the things they are killing are not actually human. It engenders a different feeling to playing multiplayer games where the odds arent heavily skewed in your favour. In a single player game you are the central character, the hero of the story, with superior abilities to your enemies.

What a load of horsesh*t... the ridiculous claims by the media that video games are somehow to blame for mass murders is nothing but scapegoat reporting. People that actually believe this bull**** need to wake the f*ck up and realise that some people in this world are just twisted in the head... What was Hitlers excuse ? As far as im aware violent video games have only been available for about 15 years or so..

Heres a list of these sort of "Rampage killers"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

...notice how most of them date before the 00's ?

Raze_them_all

pssst quick edit yer post before someone realises you left out the list

r3nu4l

I played the original GTA for possibly hundreds of hours, I've yet to run over a group of Hare Krishna's in my car

However, I also played Last Ninja 2 for hundreds of hours on my C64, that probably means I'm a ninja now :cool:

If he was using MW2 to train himself then he should really have used COD4, it's far more 'realistic' than MW2.

Also for all of those talking about that level in MW2, anyone who has played it can tell you how frustrating it is because the developers allowed no control over the character other than to look left or right and fire the weapon. You couldn't run ahead, chase down those running away or linger behind to kill more civilians after the rest of the terrorist cell had moved ahead.

This guy ran all across the island, chased down those who ran away and lingered as long as he could. I don't think MW2 was really of any benefit to him. However I do believe that he's deluded enough to think that it was of use to him.

Stev_o

Guys you are all missing out on the overall potential here.

Grab your sports game of choice.

Put it onto the hardest difficulty.

And after 2 weeks many of the following will happen.

-Get drafted 1st overall in the NFL.
-Get drafted 1st overall in the NBA.
-Get drafted 1st overall in the MLB.
-Become the worlds best football player within one match of playing.

etc etc.

Lazy journalism is lazy. Games will be blamed while the under lying reasons why he did what he did will be brushed aside.

jill_valentine

Kadongy wrote: »

wrt the concept that fps games could be used to teach actual combat skills: There is evidence to support this idea. Counter Strike has been used to train police:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Counter-Strike-Training-Ground-for-Tianjin-039-s-Police-Officers-67060.shtml

It has also been used to train soldiers:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-06/29/content_12797469.htm

The benefit of these simulations is primarily to teach officers how to function as an element of a team and to drill over procedure, both of which would be useless to somebody like this. It does also seem to help in terms of being able to generate a decision in response to enemy action. But again, this isn't something that would be hugely useful here because the kids had no hope of reacting.

The other benefit, and I'm a little hesitant to introduce to the conversation lest it's misinterpreted, is overcoming the initial psychological barrier of shooting at a human shaped target. Now, this is something that can easily be misquoted or misrepresented, so it's worth looking further into it to make sure nobody gets the wrong idea. There's a lot of research about it out there.

Most cops and soldiers aren't actually natural born killers; but they do need to be able to fire on other people to do their job and "for the greater good". That doesn't come naturally to normally wired people, which is why military firing range targets are now shaped like human silhouettes rather than the old dartboard looking ones. It's worth reading a bit more into the old and oft-repeated story soldiers in WWI intentionally firing high even when in immediate danger. It was observed again in Vietnam and again in even more recent conflicts - balanced individuals have an instinctive resistance to aiming a lethal weapon at their fellow human being and simulators can help someway towards overcoming this block.

But again, this wouldn't be of any benefit to this guy. He wasn't balanced, and he had no hesitation whatsoever about shooting and killing other people, children even. That was his goal and intention all along. So again, it wouldn't have helped.

Modern Warfare is not an accurate simulation of warfare or a useful training exercise to that end. But, as a game, as a piece of entertainment, it must provide the illusion that is.

mrm

Kadongy wrote: »

You go around killing innocent unarmed people in a level of MW2 - that is the whole point here really.

No it is not! Unless you are referring solely to the typical media self serving sh*t stirring 'reporting' methods.

Police described Breivik as a gun-loving, right-wing religious fundamentalist....

(from media piece above. No sh*t sherlock! So when did they make this discovery? Before or after 90+ people lost their lives. If it is a retrospective comment then the police are just confirming that they are not policing the state as required, and if they knew beforehand- ala abbeylara/ John Carthy- well theres the real serious story there).


This character description, and some other issues, are the 'whole point' here. Include gun posession, a 1500 page 'war' manifesto (available online according to the report above), a severe form of prejudice (most possibly not reticent if a war against Islam manifesto was produced) and the unchecked purchases of large amounts of a produce from which bombs can be manufactured. FFS, in my line of work I purchase numerous land maps from the OSI offices, which they track to ensure I do not purchase sufficient quantities to allow me to become a map trader.


Simply another story of 'violent fundamentalist with gun shoots people; normal people without guns don't, some play games'. I am in no way trying to belittle this grave tragedy, but I detest the deflection from the real issues via cheap journalism. Unfortunately these instances are becoming too common place, with the similar head in the sand reaction each time. Do you know what the definition of insanity is?

omerin

The day after they ban guns in the US and places like Norway they will ban simulated violent computer/console games. Rest assured it'll never happen.

I grew up on Mario brothers, but I never wanted to fix anybodys central heating or repair leaks

Dyr

Probably just as well he did'nt get into arma or op:flashpoint :eek:

although for some reason I immediately thought of this

nyarlothothep

Nothing to do with the game and everything to do with one individual. As a matter of course look at how many people have played violent games and have not gone out and committed violent crimes. I don't care much for this story unless it results in the censorship of games as a consequence on the mindless hysteria of those who cannot rationalise their way out of a paper bag.

mrm

Recent report on the impact of games on the fall in crime rates.

http://uk.gamespot.com/wii/hardware/wii/news/6320408/games-credited-with-crime-reduction-study

'Researchers in Texas working with the Centre for European Economic Research said this "incapacitation effect" more than offset any direct impact the content of the games may have had in encouraging violent behaviour.' (from BBC report)

Psychological studies invariably find a positive relationship between violent video game play and aggression. However, these studies cannot account for either aggressive effects of alternative activities video game playing substitutes for or the possible selection of relatively violent people into playing violent video games. That is, they lack external validity. We investigate the relationship between the prevalence of violent video games and violent crimes. Our results are consistent with two opposing effects. First, they support the behavioral effects as in the psychological studies. Second, they suggest a larger voluntary incapacitation effect in which playing either violent or non-violent games decrease crimes. Overall, violent video games lead to decreases in violent crime. (Abstract from SSRN)

Duggy747

I've been reading through his manifesto and even though this guy mentioned MW2 in it he got the ball rolling on his plan back in 2002.

He was already researching weaponry / armour / chemicals and discussing ideas for his plan well before MW2. He had to spend a few years on firearm training so he could legally aquire handguns which, along with getting other weapons across Europe, was all for the purpose of what he did on Friday.

He also states a few times that he isn't a fan of FPS but is more into Fantasy RPGs like Dragon Age & World Of Warcraft.

He saw games as a reward for himself whenever he decided to take a break from prepping his plan and documenting this manifesto. This was rare considering he spent most of his days building contacts on Facebook, e-mail farming, aquiring money (he got a hold of €500,000 in 2005 solely for this plan), and creating a business for himself (GeoFarm) so he could order large batches of chemicals while staying off the radar.

To associate games with what he did on Friday is utterly ridiculous but, of course, that won't stop the media from feeding on this and getting people to believe this horseshìt.

Yakult

Twilightning wrote: »

It's obvious the guy has some sort of a major screw loose if he thinks Modern Warfare 2 is the epitome of a realistic war shooter.

Definably, but the general public who don't play these games will think that, thats alot of lose screws!!!

K.O.Kiki

Yakult wrote: »

Definably, but the general public who don't play these games will think that, thats alot of lose screws!!!

Well, COD MW2 has sold ~10-25 million, so it's not exactly "niche".

Which means there'll be plenty of non-forumgoers who can probably put a good word in for the game.

Not that the news media will ever report on that.

amacachi

Raze_them_all wrote: »

As part of a terrorist group.

I can drive an f1 car in games. Doesn't mean you'll see me out there making bits of alonso and co

In fairness no-one could do that to Alfonso. Vettel maybe, but not Alfonso.

amacachi

This guy did one thing that most people can't do, he kept his mouth shut. If people who are mental enough to do this kind of stuff weren't such mouths then this would happen a lot more often.
The term "fish in a barrel" also comes to mind.

ShadowHearth

Duggy747 wrote: »

I've been reading through his manifesto and even though this guy mentioned MW2 in it he got the ball rolling on his plan back in 2002.

He was already researching weaponry / armour / chemicals and discussing ideas for his plan well before MW2. He had to spend a few years on firearm training so he could legally aquire handguns which, along with getting other weapons across Europe, was all for the purpose of what he did on Friday.

He also states a few times that he isn't a fan of FPS but is more into Fantasy RPGs like Dragon Age & World Of Warcraft.

He saw games as a reward for himself whenever he decided to take a break from prepping his plan and documenting this manifesto. This was rare considering he spent most of his days building contacts on Facebook, e-mail farming, aquiring money (he got a hold of €500,000 in 2005 solely for this plan), and creating a business for himself (GeoFarm) so he could order large batches of chemicals while staying off the radar.

To associate games with what he did on Friday is utterly ridiculous but, of course, that won't stop the media from feeding on this and getting people to believe this horseshìt.

Holy ****. I presume he had quite alot of friends ( Facebook ones ) who were supporting on this.

Is there a chance on getting your hands on that manifesto. It's not that I would like to learn a thing or two, but it would be interesting to hear wtf is it all about not from usual media bull****.

Skerries

the more i think about what he did just sends shivers down my spine
normally in these attacks you hear of many injuries but the fact that he killed so many means that he was going for the kill shot every time or was using a lot of bullets to ensure they were dead

ShadowHearth

Skerries wrote: »

the more i think about what he did just sends shivers down my spine
normally in these attacks you hear of many injuries but the fact that he killed so many means that he was going for the kill shot every time or was using a lot of bullets to ensure they were dead

I am same m8. I keep thinking about it. Yesterday and all day today so far.

I am sort of pissed of about media too. Cork Redfm had a thing about that drug bad Amy as first, then just mentioned about the slaughter. Hurling and footy then after...

Victor bary is discussing Amy whitehouse too. He took 5 seconds to mention tragedy about slaughter and then: huge huge huge huge talent wasted....


I was like: wtf man?! Are you serious?!

Chairman Meow

****ing noob, if he thinks MW2 is a training simulator, hes obviously never heard of ArmA 2. MW2 is as close to reality as ****ing middle earth.