Oslo Terrorist speaks about MW2

ShadowHearth

Kadongy wrote: »

You go around killing innocent unarmed people in a level of MW2 - that is the whole point here really.

i played that level more times then i finished mw2. just for **** and giggles.

there must be something wrong with me! :rolleyes:

Games do not make MONSTERS, if person is allready fecked in the head, games will be just an addon to theyr madness.

i played games since i was 5. I killed a population of small country in those games by this time. killed maybe 100 today alone. somehow i dont have any sort of need in killing people in real life... wierd :eek:

Magill

Kadongy wrote: »

wrt the concept that fps games could be used to teach actual combat skills: There is evidence to support this idea. Counter Strike has been used to train police:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Counter-Strike-Training-Ground-for-Tianjin-039-s-Police-Officers-67060.shtml

It has also been used to train soldiers:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-06/29/content_12797469.htm

Obviously it would teach nothing about actual gun handling - but yes tactical knowledge could be gained, and appropriate responses to situations trained.

There is also a stronger argument than usual that the game [MW2] might have influenced his decision to do this. That level that is referred to by a previous poster involves you getting into disguise and going around a closed environment killing unarmed innocent people. This man got into a disguise and went around a closed environment killing lots of innocent people. As mentioned, the level is very disturbing to most players. It is a realistic game in a modern setting.

It was also mentioned that single player games involve shooting bots, and that the bots are typically significantly inferior to human players. So playing single player games like this can allow the player to imagine themselves more skillful or effective than they actually are. And the things they are killing are not actually human. It engenders a different feeling to playing multiplayer games where the odds arent heavily skewed in your favour. In a single player game you are the central character, the hero of the story, with superior abilities to your enemies.

What a load of horsesh*t... the ridiculous claims by the media that video games are somehow to blame for mass murders is nothing but scapegoat reporting. People that actually believe this bull**** need to wake the f*ck up and realise that some people in this world are just twisted in the head... What was Hitlers excuse ? As far as im aware violent video games have only been available for about 15 years or so..

Heres a list of these sort of "Rampage killers"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

...notice how most of them date before the 00's ?

Raze_them_all

pssst quick edit yer post before someone realises you left out the list

r3nu4l

I played the original GTA for possibly hundreds of hours, I've yet to run over a group of Hare Krishna's in my car

However, I also played Last Ninja 2 for hundreds of hours on my C64, that probably means I'm a ninja now :cool:

If he was using MW2 to train himself then he should really have used COD4, it's far more 'realistic' than MW2.

Also for all of those talking about that level in MW2, anyone who has played it can tell you how frustrating it is because the developers allowed no control over the character other than to look left or right and fire the weapon. You couldn't run ahead, chase down those running away or linger behind to kill more civilians after the rest of the terrorist cell had moved ahead.

This guy ran all across the island, chased down those who ran away and lingered as long as he could. I don't think MW2 was really of any benefit to him. However I do believe that he's deluded enough to think that it was of use to him.

Stev_o

Guys you are all missing out on the overall potential here.

Grab your sports game of choice.

Put it onto the hardest difficulty.

And after 2 weeks many of the following will happen.

-Get drafted 1st overall in the NFL.
-Get drafted 1st overall in the NBA.
-Get drafted 1st overall in the MLB.
-Become the worlds best football player within one match of playing.

etc etc.

Lazy journalism is lazy. Games will be blamed while the under lying reasons why he did what he did will be brushed aside.

jill_valentine

Kadongy wrote: »

wrt the concept that fps games could be used to teach actual combat skills: There is evidence to support this idea. Counter Strike has been used to train police:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Counter-Strike-Training-Ground-for-Tianjin-039-s-Police-Officers-67060.shtml

It has also been used to train soldiers:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-06/29/content_12797469.htm

The benefit of these simulations is primarily to teach officers how to function as an element of a team and to drill over procedure, both of which would be useless to somebody like this. It does also seem to help in terms of being able to generate a decision in response to enemy action. But again, this isn't something that would be hugely useful here because the kids had no hope of reacting.

The other benefit, and I'm a little hesitant to introduce to the conversation lest it's misinterpreted, is overcoming the initial psychological barrier of shooting at a human shaped target. Now, this is something that can easily be misquoted or misrepresented, so it's worth looking further into it to make sure nobody gets the wrong idea. There's a lot of research about it out there.

Most cops and soldiers aren't actually natural born killers; but they do need to be able to fire on other people to do their job and "for the greater good". That doesn't come naturally to normally wired people, which is why military firing range targets are now shaped like human silhouettes rather than the old dartboard looking ones. It's worth reading a bit more into the old and oft-repeated story soldiers in WWI intentionally firing high even when in immediate danger. It was observed again in Vietnam and again in even more recent conflicts - balanced individuals have an instinctive resistance to aiming a lethal weapon at their fellow human being and simulators can help someway towards overcoming this block.

But again, this wouldn't be of any benefit to this guy. He wasn't balanced, and he had no hesitation whatsoever about shooting and killing other people, children even. That was his goal and intention all along. So again, it wouldn't have helped.

Modern Warfare is not an accurate simulation of warfare or a useful training exercise to that end. But, as a game, as a piece of entertainment, it must provide the illusion that is.

mrm

Kadongy wrote: »

You go around killing innocent unarmed people in a level of MW2 - that is the whole point here really.

No it is not! Unless you are referring solely to the typical media self serving sh*t stirring 'reporting' methods.

Police described Breivik as a gun-loving, right-wing religious fundamentalist....

(from media piece above. No sh*t sherlock! So when did they make this discovery? Before or after 90+ people lost their lives. If it is a retrospective comment then the police are just confirming that they are not policing the state as required, and if they knew beforehand- ala abbeylara/ John Carthy- well theres the real serious story there).


This character description, and some other issues, are the 'whole point' here. Include gun posession, a 1500 page 'war' manifesto (available online according to the report above), a severe form of prejudice (most possibly not reticent if a war against Islam manifesto was produced) and the unchecked purchases of large amounts of a produce from which bombs can be manufactured. FFS, in my line of work I purchase numerous land maps from the OSI offices, which they track to ensure I do not purchase sufficient quantities to allow me to become a map trader.


Simply another story of 'violent fundamentalist with gun shoots people; normal people without guns don't, some play games'. I am in no way trying to belittle this grave tragedy, but I detest the deflection from the real issues via cheap journalism. Unfortunately these instances are becoming too common place, with the similar head in the sand reaction each time. Do you know what the definition of insanity is?

omerin

The day after they ban guns in the US and places like Norway they will ban simulated violent computer/console games. Rest assured it'll never happen.

I grew up on Mario brothers, but I never wanted to fix anybodys central heating or repair leaks

Dyr

Probably just as well he did'nt get into arma or op:flashpoint :eek:

although for some reason I immediately thought of this

nyarlothothep

Nothing to do with the game and everything to do with one individual. As a matter of course look at how many people have played violent games and have not gone out and committed violent crimes. I don't care much for this story unless it results in the censorship of games as a consequence on the mindless hysteria of those who cannot rationalise their way out of a paper bag.

mrm

Recent report on the impact of games on the fall in crime rates.

http://uk.gamespot.com/wii/hardware/wii/news/6320408/games-credited-with-crime-reduction-study

'Researchers in Texas working with the Centre for European Economic Research said this "incapacitation effect" more than offset any direct impact the content of the games may have had in encouraging violent behaviour.' (from BBC report)

Psychological studies invariably find a positive relationship between violent video game play and aggression. However, these studies cannot account for either aggressive effects of alternative activities video game playing substitutes for or the possible selection of relatively violent people into playing violent video games. That is, they lack external validity. We investigate the relationship between the prevalence of violent video games and violent crimes. Our results are consistent with two opposing effects. First, they support the behavioral effects as in the psychological studies. Second, they suggest a larger voluntary incapacitation effect in which playing either violent or non-violent games decrease crimes. Overall, violent video games lead to decreases in violent crime. (Abstract from SSRN)

Duggy747

I've been reading through his manifesto and even though this guy mentioned MW2 in it he got the ball rolling on his plan back in 2002.

He was already researching weaponry / armour / chemicals and discussing ideas for his plan well before MW2. He had to spend a few years on firearm training so he could legally aquire handguns which, along with getting other weapons across Europe, was all for the purpose of what he did on Friday.

He also states a few times that he isn't a fan of FPS but is more into Fantasy RPGs like Dragon Age & World Of Warcraft.

He saw games as a reward for himself whenever he decided to take a break from prepping his plan and documenting this manifesto. This was rare considering he spent most of his days building contacts on Facebook, e-mail farming, aquiring money (he got a hold of €500,000 in 2005 solely for this plan), and creating a business for himself (GeoFarm) so he could order large batches of chemicals while staying off the radar.

To associate games with what he did on Friday is utterly ridiculous but, of course, that won't stop the media from feeding on this and getting people to believe this horseshìt.

Yakult

Twilightning wrote: »

It's obvious the guy has some sort of a major screw loose if he thinks Modern Warfare 2 is the epitome of a realistic war shooter.

Definably, but the general public who don't play these games will think that, thats alot of lose screws!!!

K.O.Kiki

Yakult wrote: »

Definably, but the general public who don't play these games will think that, thats alot of lose screws!!!

Well, COD MW2 has sold ~10-25 million, so it's not exactly "niche".

Which means there'll be plenty of non-forumgoers who can probably put a good word in for the game.

Not that the news media will ever report on that.

amacachi

Raze_them_all wrote: »

As part of a terrorist group.

I can drive an f1 car in games. Doesn't mean you'll see me out there making bits of alonso and co

In fairness no-one could do that to Alfonso. Vettel maybe, but not Alfonso.

amacachi

This guy did one thing that most people can't do, he kept his mouth shut. If people who are mental enough to do this kind of stuff weren't such mouths then this would happen a lot more often.
The term "fish in a barrel" also comes to mind.

ShadowHearth

Duggy747 wrote: »

I've been reading through his manifesto and even though this guy mentioned MW2 in it he got the ball rolling on his plan back in 2002.

He was already researching weaponry / armour / chemicals and discussing ideas for his plan well before MW2. He had to spend a few years on firearm training so he could legally aquire handguns which, along with getting other weapons across Europe, was all for the purpose of what he did on Friday.

He also states a few times that he isn't a fan of FPS but is more into Fantasy RPGs like Dragon Age & World Of Warcraft.

He saw games as a reward for himself whenever he decided to take a break from prepping his plan and documenting this manifesto. This was rare considering he spent most of his days building contacts on Facebook, e-mail farming, aquiring money (he got a hold of €500,000 in 2005 solely for this plan), and creating a business for himself (GeoFarm) so he could order large batches of chemicals while staying off the radar.

To associate games with what he did on Friday is utterly ridiculous but, of course, that won't stop the media from feeding on this and getting people to believe this horseshìt.

Holy ****. I presume he had quite alot of friends ( Facebook ones ) who were supporting on this.

Is there a chance on getting your hands on that manifesto. It's not that I would like to learn a thing or two, but it would be interesting to hear wtf is it all about not from usual media bull****.

Skerries

the more i think about what he did just sends shivers down my spine
normally in these attacks you hear of many injuries but the fact that he killed so many means that he was going for the kill shot every time or was using a lot of bullets to ensure they were dead

ShadowHearth

Skerries wrote: »

the more i think about what he did just sends shivers down my spine
normally in these attacks you hear of many injuries but the fact that he killed so many means that he was going for the kill shot every time or was using a lot of bullets to ensure they were dead

I am same m8. I keep thinking about it. Yesterday and all day today so far.

I am sort of pissed of about media too. Cork Redfm had a thing about that drug bad Amy as first, then just mentioned about the slaughter. Hurling and footy then after...

Victor bary is discussing Amy whitehouse too. He took 5 seconds to mention tragedy about slaughter and then: huge huge huge huge talent wasted....


I was like: wtf man?! Are you serious?!

Chairman Meow

****ing noob, if he thinks MW2 is a training simulator, hes obviously never heard of ArmA 2. MW2 is as close to reality as ****ing middle earth.

hooradiation

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I am same m8. I keep thinking about it. Yesterday and all day today so far.

I am sort of pissed of about media too. Cork Redfm had a thing about that drug bad Amy as first, then just mentioned about the slaughter. Hurling and footy then after...

Victor bary is discussing Amy whitehouse too. He took 5 seconds to mention tragedy about slaughter and then: huge huge huge huge talent wasted....


I was like: wtf man?! Are you serious?!

There's been about fifty posts on how this man murdering 90 plus people, mostly children, for the imaginary crime of multiculturalism might impact on peoples hobby of choice.

I wouldn't be too quick to complain about other people not giving this story the respect it deserves.

K.O.Kiki

ShadowHearth wrote:

I am same m8. I keep thinking about it. Yesterday and all day today so far.

I am sort of pissed of about media too. Cork Redfm had a thing about that drug bad Amy as first, then just mentioned about the slaughter. Hurling and footy then after...

Victor bary is discussing Amy whitehouse too. He took 5 seconds to mention tragedy about slaughter and then: huge huge huge huge talent wasted....


I was like: wtf man?! Are you serious?!

hooradiation wrote:

There's been about fifty posts on how this man murdering 90 plus people, mostly children, for the imaginary crime of multiculturalism might impact on peoples hobby of choice.

I wouldn't be too quick to complain about other people not giving this story the respect it deserves.

I think you guys missed the video posted earlier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

Kiith

hooradiation wrote: »

I wouldn't be too quick to complain about other people not giving this story the respect it deserves.

They can give the story the respect it deserves by not making up bull****, sensationalist claims that computer games are the cause.

ShadowHearth

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I think you guys missed the video posted earlier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

Oh no, I didn't. It's very good video.

The way I am looking at it, they could have a proper respectable bit about. Not: oh my god, an amazing person died, who was drug and buzz addict, and yeah, some **** happened is some of the north countries. So yeah, that girl was awesome and did great music....

Ofc media can't do normal. They blow it to the size of the elephant or wont even notice it. There is no middle ground.

bastados

I wouldn't think its harmful to gaming in the least , if anything it would be the opposite..just proves how widespread online gaming is.

Jelle1880

To be honest, if he used MW2 as a basis it's no wonder he killed so many people.
They just kept coming.

Kadongy

mrm wrote: »

No it is not! Unless you are referring solely to the typical media self serving sh*t stirring 'reporting' methods.

No I didn't mean that but I agree with your view of the media.

(from media piece above. No sh*t sherlock! So when did they make this discovery? Before or after 90+ people lost their lives. If it is a retrospective comment then the police are just confirming that they are not policing the state as required, and if they knew beforehand- ala abbeylara/ John Carthy- well theres the real serious story there).


This character description, and some other issues, are the 'whole point' here. Include gun posession, a 1500 page 'war' manifesto (available online according to the report above), a severe form of prejudice (most possibly not reticent if a war against Islam manifesto was produced) and the unchecked purchases of large amounts of a produce from which bombs can be manufactured. FFS, in my line of work I purchase numerous land maps from the OSI offices, which they track to ensure I do not purchase sufficient quantities to allow me to become a map trader.


Simply another story of 'violent fundamentalist with gun shoots people; normal people without guns don't, some play games'. I am in no way trying to belittle this grave tragedy, but I detest the deflection from the real issues via cheap journalism. Unfortunately these instances are becoming too common place, with the similar head in the sand reaction each time. Do you know what the definition of insanity is?

Again I agree with you about the journalism.

The concept that games or other media may influence some people in a destructive manner is not absurd though. The word "some" is important in this. Normal people won't be influenced by games, movies or books to do horrific acts of violence. Normal people would find the concept alien and absurd or disgusting. Normal people can differentiate between fantasy and reality.

However some people live in fantasy worlds where they imbue things with massive importance. It is not the first time I have heard someone talk about upcoming wars between the Christian and Muslim worlds in the same sort of tone. In my opinion people who think in that sort of way are not fully engaged with reality. People who write long manifestos about bollocks and think they are some sort of crusader when they murder dozens of people are certainlu not engaged with reality. Theyare living in a complete fantasy land where they are important and heroic.

It is people like these - evil mental people - that could genuinely be influenced to act in such manners by games or movies etc. It is with people like these that games might nurture mental egomanical fantasies and eventually mental egomanical mass murder.

I knew a guy who was wired like that - not to be a serial killer - but to be overly influenced by games etc. He was divorced from reality and believed he must be special in some way. He played a lot of Age of Empires. This led to him believing that he was a military genius and he applied to do a cadetship. He did not prepare in any way, dismissed suggestions that he shoud, lacked any attributes that would be sought in a cadet, and lacked any background that would be considered suitable for a cadet. However he believed he would be a great military commander, and was shocked and angry when he was dismissed after a screening interview.

This killer bought into the fantasy worlds of games where he was a hugely important crusading heroic figure. He decided to bring his dreams into reality in his severely deluded manner and slaughtered dozens of innocent people and children.

Whether or not games can train you for combat is open to debate and is of secondary importance. What is more important is the fact he believed that he was training himself for this by playing them. This would have inspired him with confidence to go out and do this thing.

K.O.Kiki

Delete this post please.
Stop giving this cvnt exposure FFS.

Kadongy

300 huh? Surprised they aren't making a fuss about his liking of that film too

Retr0gamer

Post deleted because it had nothing to do with the discussion.