Amy Winehouse Dead (RIP thread)[Mod Note Post 1]

starbelgrade · 24-07-2011 01:24AM

Belly_Dancer wrote: »

in all honesty i cant say i shall be crying into me kleenix.
i hated her "music", & she looked repulsive.

Are you always this shallow or just when you post on the internet?

jive · 24-07-2011 01:25AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

You really know nothing about the nature of addiction.

BRB making a point and not elaborating. Amy Winehouse was never forced to take drugs, it was a choice. Not only that but she also had the wealth and education to both get help and know that what she was doing was detrimental to herself. I like the fact that nobody gave a fúck about her when she was alive but now that she is dead they are sympathising with her :rolleyes: Typical scenario where when someone dies they become a saint even though throughout their lives they were viewed as the polar opposite.

TheZohanS · 24-07-2011 01:26AM

Glornafarraige wrote: »

the world was not made for one as talented as her. Back to black, what an album

Yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7laj2IWjPSc

ger vallely · 24-07-2011 01:28AM

She doesn't need your sympathy now. She was young, talented and someones child. Respect the fact that a person has died and deserves recogniction for her life. Yes she made money and found fame but she was obviously fragile and was crying out for help and support. Such a shame, I hope she rests in peace.I've just caught up on some of the awful responses to her passing. Ah lads, have a heart. She was not in her right mind, sure it wasn't cancer but have some compassion. There but for the grace of fate go I. In different circumstances it could be any one of you or your children,sisters,cousins etc.

starbelgrade · 24-07-2011 01:29AM

jive wrote: »

BRB making a point and not elaborating. Amy Winehouse was never forced to take drugs, it was a choice. Not only that but she also had the wealth and education to both get help and know that what she was doing was detrimental to herself. I like the fact that nobody gave a fúck about her when she was alive but now that she is dead they are sympathising with her :rolleyes: Typical scenario where when someone dies they become a saint even though throughout their lives they were viewed as the polar opposite.

It's an odd concept to think that wealth can solve all problems. If that was the case, Elvis, Cobain, Buckley, Morrison etc., should all never have died when they did.

To say that nobody gave a fuck about her while she was struggling with her demons is also untrue - just because you didn't doesn't mean that others didn't too.

aidan24326 · 24-07-2011 01:29AM

Jess16 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if it were that simple :rolleyes: Having fun in that ideal world of yours?

Make all the rolleyes you want but it actually is as simple as that. Yes she had terrible problems with drink and srug addiction but in case you weren't aware it is possible to beat that and come out the other side a better person. She chose not to, despite having more support and help available to her than the average person would have.

She knew the dangers of hard drugs, they've been well documented at this stage, but she chose to carry on regardless, so as much as I feel sad at the loss of a talented young girl I feel it's only fair to acknowledge that she brought this on herself. It's not nice to say it but that's the reality.

Belly_Dancer · 24-07-2011 01:29AM

Addicts are the most boring persons you'll ever encounter.:D

KeithM89_old · 24-07-2011 01:31AM

Belly_Dancer wrote: »

Addicts are the most boring persons you'll ever encounter.:D

Banned

starbelgrade · 24-07-2011 01:31AM

Belly_Dancer wrote: »

Addicts are the most boring persons you'll ever encounter.:D

No. Trolls beat them, hands down.

cesc77 · 24-07-2011 01:37AM

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

FFS - we were discussing the concept of empathy. Some posters were saying it didn't exist, others were saying it did.

I'm so sick of the bone headed aggression on boards.ie, all for the sake of posturing and having the last word.

High horse,off of.

Empathy for a celebrity?Catch a grip.They have far more support than the man in the street ever could have.

They have the wealth to afford the clinics and have a hoard of people behind them.

People die all the time.Do you cry your crocodile tears every time you pour over the obituaries?

Mrs Shuttleworth · 24-07-2011 01:39AM

aidan24326 wrote: »

Make all the rolleyes you want but it actually is as simple as that. Yes she had terrible problems with drink and srug addiction but in case you weren't aware it is possible to beat that and come out the other side a better person. She chose not to, despite having more support and help available to her than the average person would have.

She knew the dangers of hard drugs, they've been well documented at this stage, but she chose to carry on regardless, so as much as I feel sad at the loss of a talented young girl I feel it's only fair to acknowledge that she brought this on herself. It's not nice to say it but that's the reality.

I don't know much about the nature of addiction, but I suspect there needs to be a firm guiding hand from someone else for a while, not just one's own willpower.

If you look at someone like Russell Brand, another "London" personality with an addiction, his agent John Noel stepped in and took control of the situation to get the ball rolling. That doesn't appear to have happened from any quarter in Amy's case. I'm wrong as to the facts I stand corrected.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 24-07-2011 01:40AM

cesc77 wrote: »

High horse,off of.

Empathy for a celebrity?Catch a grip.They have far more support than the man in the street ever could have.

They have the wealth to afford the clinics and have a hoard of people behind them.

People die all the time but Ill bet that you dont cry your crocodile tears every time you pour over the obituaries,which Im sure you do.

Troll.

I actually do read obits from time to time. And occasionally I go to funerals of people I don't know if it appears there's no family. Now that you mention it.

jive · 24-07-2011 01:41AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's an odd concept to think that wealth can solve all problems. If that was the case, Elvis, Cobain, Buckley, Morrison etc., should all never have died when they did.

To say that nobody gave a fuck about her while she was struggling with her demons is also untrue - just because you didn't doesn't mean that others didn't too.

Where did I say wealth could solve all problems? She had the education and wealth to rectify the situation i.e. she knew the drugs were bad for her and she could pay professionals to aid her until she overcame her 'demons'.

Cobain shot himself, Buckley drowned, nobody knows what really happened to Morrison and Elvis was abusing prescribed meds. The fact of the matter is that in this day and age she could have paid professionals to help her and she was never forced into a situation where she had to take drugs. It was a choice. She CHOOSE to destroy her body and now she's dead. It's sad but tough shít, millions of people would kill for a healthy body and she goes and destroys hers.

Well people may have cared about her but what did they do about it? I saw her father in an interview saying she would die a slow and painful death due to drug abuse and yet didn't solve the situation - because he couldn't. She had all the help necessary as well as the potential to pay for professional help but she didn't take it - she choose not to and now she is dead. Dress it up whatever way you want but at the end of the day she was a drug abuser and now she is dead because of it - she knew the risks and so did everyone else.

holystungun9 · 24-07-2011 01:41AM

Rest in peace Amy. I'm very sad to hear you're gone.

cesc77 · 24-07-2011 01:50AM

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Troll.

I actually do read obits from time to time. And occasionally I go to funerals of people I don't know if it appears there's no family. Now that you mention it.

Very harsh shuttleworth for such a new poster........I am not a troll.My points have been fair and honest and if you have an issue with them you can come back with a counter-argument.

I knew a guy that was a funeral feeder as well.He was well thought of and he thought well of himself.

starbelgrade · 24-07-2011 01:52AM

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

I don't know much about the nature of addiction, but I suspect there needs to be a firm guiding hand from someone else for a while, not just one's own willpower.

If your an addict, you can have all the guidance in the world, but if you haven't got the will or reason - or a combination of both - to change, then no amount of advice, guidance, friends or money will be of any help to you.

Every addiction stems from an underlying problem. The addiction itself is just a symptom of those problems & while it's important to address the addiction itself, it's really more important to address the reasons why a person becomes addicted in the first place.

I think that's why a death like this can have so much resonance - anyone can end up a "junkie", or an alcoholic.. it doesn't take much to push people over the edge - a death of a friend, the break-up of a relationship, or some other traumatic event... all of them can drive a person to seek something that will numb the pain or make them forget.

And that's usually the crux of it. The forgetting is the driving factor. The drug - whatever it may be - is just the means to the end.

The people who diss an addicts death as being their own fault are lucky - they've obviously had easy enough lives. I think that's why they lack any sense of empathy or identity with those who were less lucky.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 24-07-2011 01:53AM

cesc77 wrote: »

Very harsh shuttleworth for such a new poster........I am not a troll.My points have been fair and honest and if you have an issue with them you can come back with a counter-argument.

I knew a guy that was a funeral feeder as well.He was well thought of and he thought well of himself.

I'm not being harsh. The tone of both your posts to me was aggressive, judgmental and unfair. And I also answered your points.

aidan24326 · 24-07-2011 02:00AM

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

I don't know much about the nature of addiction, but I suspect there needs to be a firm guiding hand from someone else for a while, not just one's own willpower.

If you look at someone like Russell Brand, another "London" personality with an addiction, his agent John Noel stepped in and took control of the situation to get the ball rolling. That doesn't appear to have happened from any quarter in Amy's case. I'm wrong as to the facts I stand corrected.

I'm not privy to the inside deatails of her life either, but from what I do know I think that people did try to help her. Maybe they didn't try hard enough. The times she went in to rehab always seemed as though she was doing that to keep someone else happy, be it her dad, her record company, a judge or whoever. There was never really a sense that she wanted to get better for herself, and that's where it has to start.

Viva music channel were playing her hits a while ago and I'd forgotten how many great songs she had. It's a pity someone couldn't have got through to her. As is always the case in these situations there will be alot of regrets amongst her family and friends. Too late now though unfortunately.

cesc77 · 24-07-2011 02:01AM

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

I'm not being harsh. The tone of both your posts to me was aggressive, judgmental and unfair. And I also answered your points.

This is very funny.

The only direct comment I made to you was to get of your high horse.

Your perception is that I am aggressive,judgemental and unfair......

Can I presume that you are female,Mrs Shuttleworth?:pac:

yes dear,no dear.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 24-07-2011 02:03AM

cesc77 wrote: »

This is very funny.

The only direct comment I made to you was to get of your high horse.

Your perception is that I am aggressive,judgemental and unfair......

Can I presume that you are female,Mrs Shuttleworth?:pac:

yes dear,no dear.

The other direct comment was spiteful, personal, sarcastic and direct - the one you brought up about reading obits/crocodile tears.

Mods - Troll

Logical Fallacy · 24-07-2011 02:04AM

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

They shouldn't be compared. It's frightening to think that some posters can't accept that it's possible to have a discussion about Winehouse, as and of itself.

We can't, as anyone who is not buying into the classic case of revisionism with regard to a celebrity death is being jumped on.

KeithM89_old · 24-07-2011 02:04AM

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

I'm not being harsh. The tone of both your posts to me was aggressive, judgmental and unfair. And I also answered your points.

cesc77 wrote: »

This is very funny.

The only direct comment I made to you was to get of your high horse.

Your perception is that I am aggressive,judgemental and unfair......

Can I presume that you are female,Mrs Shuttleworth?:pac:

yes dear,no dear.

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

The other direct comment was spiteful, personal, sarcastic and direct - the one you brought up about reading obits/crocodile tears.

Mods - Troll

Cut it out.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 24-07-2011 02:06AM

aidan24326 wrote: »

I'm not privy to the inside deatails of her life either, but from what I do know I think that people did try to help her. Maybe they didn't try hard enough. The times she went in to rehab always seemed as though she was doing that to keep someone else happy, be it her dad, her record company, a judge or whoever. There was never really a sense that she wanted to get better for herself, and that's where it has to start.

Viva music channel were playing her hits a while ago and I'd forgotten how many great songs she had. It's a pity someone couldn't have got through to her. As is always the case in these situations there will be alot of regrets amongst her family and friends. Too late now though unfortunately.

It's opening up a deeper conversation, but you sometimes wonder if a lifespan in itself is its "right" duration, no matter what. Definitely not a conversation for 3.06a.m.!

starbelgrade · 24-07-2011 02:06AM

cesc77 wrote: »

This is very funny.

The only direct comment I made to you was to get of your high horse.

Your perception is that I am aggressive,judgemental and unfair......

Can I presume that you are female,Mrs Shuttleworth?:pac:

yes dear,no dear.

This entire post - while I wouldn't call it aggressive - would definitely be considered one that was intended to rise a reaction.... and not a good one either.

cesc77 wrote: »

High horse,off of.

Empathy for a celebrity?Catch a grip.They have far more support than the man in the street ever could have.

They have the wealth to afford the clinics and have a hoard of people behind them.

People die all the time.Do you cry your crocodile tears every time you pour over the obituaries?

I don't think you're a troll, but I can see why Mrs.S would call you one.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 24-07-2011 02:11AM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

We can't, as anyone who is not buying into the classic case of revisionism with regard to a celebrity death is being jumped on.

But a discussion about Winehouse herself doesn't necessarily have to be positive. In fact, it's less about Amy and more about the circumstances that would lead this to happen - when all the resources in this case were at hand to avoid it.

ftwwinning · 24-07-2011 02:17AM

maybe she just wanted to go
it is awful, i am upset about it, her poor family
but maybe she wanted to go?

Logical Fallacy · 24-07-2011 02:19AM

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

But a discussion about Winehouse herself doesn't necessarily have to be positive. In fact, it's less about Amy and more about the circumstances that would lead this to happen - when all the resources in this case were at hand to avoid it.

When someone's behaviour is like Winehouses you can't avoid it. She was pretty much the classic case of the human train wreck. She was just endlessly running into the same wall and appears to have continued to do so until it killed her. She appears to have had a family who loved her and all the money required to get the best possible help with regard to her problem.

However, with some addicts thats like trying to put out a forest fire with a wet rag. The best example i can think of is with regard to people who will overdose...come very close to death and then end up being saved by paramedics or doctors. Some of them will get that wake up call and find it in them to quit, others will just keep on keeping on.

cesc77 · 24-07-2011 02:25AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

This entire post - while I wouldn't call it aggressive - would definitely be considered one that was intended to rise a reaction.... and not a good one either.

It was a joke.

Males joke about females and vice versa.It was a play on her obviously female username.

I don't think you're a troll, but I can see why Mrs.S would call you one.

Thank you,but this is AH isnt it.

I havent said anything nasty or inflammatory.She is taking this persons death and comments about her death to heart.

*my words mixed up in your quote...havent seen that before....fcuks sake*

Mrs Shuttleworth · 24-07-2011 02:39AM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

When someone's behaviour is like Winehouses you can't avoid it. She was pretty much the classic case of the human train wreck. She was just endlessly running into the same wall and appears to have continued to do so until it killed her. She appears to have had a family who loved her and all the money required to get the best possible help with regard to her problem.

However, with some addicts thats like trying to put out a forest fire with a wet rag. The best example i can think of is with regard to people who will overdose...come very close to death and then end up being saved by paramedics or doctors. Some of them will get that wake up call and find it in them to quit, others will just keep on keeping on.

I guess what you're saying is that deep down, some people even subconsciously have made the decision not to be here. It's such a difficult decision for those around people like that - how much freedom do you give to someone who is by all accounts an adult.

24-07-2011 02:40AM

RIP to a young life lost

Amy Winehouse Dead (RIP thread)[Mod Note Post 1]

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