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Oslo bombed

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Still impressed by the Norwegian PM Stoltenberg. The authorities there seem to be doing a great job in difficult circumstances to be fair.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    sorry i fail to see the politics in the murder of 90 children. he may have thought it was political but due to his extreme insanity, his judgement was somewhat clowded.

    Flying planes into buildings isn't political either, but....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    philologos wrote: »
    You've already had it very clearly explained to you by other posters.

    It was a very clear political attack on the Prime Minister and the youth section of his political party. Otherwise it seems a little bit of a coincidence that he went for the Government office and went looking for the youth camp of the Labour party doesn't it?

    Jesus Tap Dancing Christ! Nothing is a known fact at this stage. It could be anything, it might be political, it might not be. It could be a revenge attack for a bad experience, it could be anything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I'm just saying, to say it isn't politically motivated given what happened would be a stretch as far as I'm concerned. Comparing the Stockholm bombing for example, that was simply in an open shopping area. This was on Government buildings and then at a political party youth camp. One can learn a lot about an attack from the targets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    philologos wrote: »
    I'm just saying, to say it isn't politically motivated given what happened would be a stretch as far as I'm concerned.

    No you are saying it "WAS CLEARLY politically motivated". There's a significant difference in both those two statements. Ruling out a political motivation so abruptly would be idiocy, but stating that it is clearly one so abruptly isn't wise either.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I consider it pretty clear from what we know. A lot of the media, including The Guardian seem to be pointing in this direction too. It seems the most likely possibility at present.

    The foreign minister said the following according to CNN:
    "I think what we have seen today is that politically motivated violence poses a threat to society and I commend the police for carrying out a very swift and effective investigation, but that is still ongoing," Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Store told reporters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ringadingding


    I'm genuinely wondering how he killed 84 people single handedly, I know he had lots of guns and the victims were kids, but 84 is a **** load of people.

    The kids hiding must have been petrified, you'd wish that upon nobody.

    The Norwegians are a proper tough little nation though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    philologos wrote: »
    It was a very clear political attack
    I consider it pretty clear from what we know.
    It seems the most likely possibility at present


    Happy to see you Back Pedaled from fact, to personal consideration, to a seemingly likely possibility. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Corsendonk wrote: »
    Does the Garda monitor the Legion of Mary?
    It wouldn't take too much for Gardai to monitor the Legion of Mary.

    nmg8qh.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Malty T: Political motivation seems almost obvious in my take. Others may disagree.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    I'm genuinely wondering how he killed 84 people single handedly, I know he had lots of guns and the victims were kids, but 84 is a **** load of people. .

    It was a small enough island, he seems to have a few different weapons, and there was hundreds of kids on the island. At first I thought it was over in a few minutes, but he was loose on the island shooting for something like two hours.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous


    philologos wrote: »
    Malty T: Political motivation seems almost obvious in my take. Others may disagree.

    I think he just wanted to kill a ton of people, and the fact that the kids had political affiliations was just a bonus, actually.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭Duggy747


    I imagine when he first opened fire he did the most damage. He walked into the building where they were, he was pretending to be a cop and then just shot them down as they sat there. Easy targets for him with an automatic weapon.

    Plus from reports he was finding pockets of people huddled together and he just fired upon them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I think he just wanted to kill a ton of people, and the fact that the kids had political affiliations was just a bonus, actually.

    If he wanted to kill a ton of people for the sake of it the timing seems a little bad no? 4:30pm. Wouldn't a morning bomb in a busy shopping area or business district be a better choice?

    It seems completely premeditated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Plus a good few of them probably drowned rather than were killed by gunfire.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous


    philologos wrote: »
    If he wanted to kill a ton of people for the sake of it the timing seems a little bad no? 4:30pm. Wouldn't a morning bomb in a busy shopping area or business district be a better choice?

    It seems completely premeditated.

    It is premeditated, you don't just wake up and have a bomb on hand. However, he obviously saw an opportunity to maximise casualties by planting a bomb, distracting the emergency services, and then go to Utoya and pick off the kids. As such, I believe that it's less politically motivated than the work of a psycho. He goes ahead to reference "Dexter" as one of his favourite shows, and "Hunting" as a sport he plays, and if he meant anything in that, it shows us that he was killing for fun.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    It is premeditated, you don't just wake up and have a bomb on hand. However, he obviously saw an opportunity to maximise casualties by planting a bomb, distracting the emergency services, and then go to Utoya and pick off the kids. As such, I believe that it's less politically motivated than the work of a psycho. He goes ahead to reference "Dexter" as one of his favourite shows, and if he meant anything in that, it shows us that he was killing for fun.

    Of course, but if something is premeditated, then there is a motive somewhere surely?

    Often one can determine this by simply looking at who, or what is targeted. In this case all targets seem to have been based around political entities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    How do you know they are responsible?


    I'll get back to you when I'm finished eating my hat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Norwayviking


    and "Hunting" as a sport he plays, and if he meant anything in that, it shows us that he was killing for fun.

    What has hunting to do with it???The man was a nutcase.
    He also had the compulsory army service in Norway,that all males age 18 has to do.;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭WesternNight


    Apparently it's 92 now according to Twitter :(


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    philologos wrote: »
    Of course, but if something is premeditated, then there is a motive somewhere surely?

    There might not necessarily be any motive at all. You don't necessarily have to have a reason to kill people. I'm not referring to this incident though, in this incident it does appear there was motive, but we don't know anything for certain.

    Targets can be smokescreens too. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Malty_T wrote: »
    There might not necessarily be any motive at all. You don't necessarily have to have a reason to kill people. I'm not referring to this incident though, in this incident it does appear there was motive, but we don't know anything for certain.

    Targets can be smokescreens too. ;)

    If I just wanted to go for a massacre*, I'd have to say my first thought wouldn't be a Labour party youth camp and certainly not after 4:30pm. The Norwegian government seem to be regarding this as a political attack given the statement from the Foreign Minister that I quoted above.

    * Not that I would


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    philologos wrote: »
    If I just wanted to go for a massacre*, I'd have to say my first thought wouldn't be a Labour party youth camp and certainly not after 4:30pm.* Not that I would

    Actually it was a perfect target. Small confined place. Lots of victims present. Nowhere to escape to. Little to no real shelter. No/little security. Remote. Difficult to access to rescuers/police....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Malty_T wrote: »
    How do you know he's intelligent and articulate?:confused:

    He is defintely intelligent, any simpleton can get a gun and shoot a few people but to plant a bomb to divert attention away so you can walk into a camp full of young people and kill 80 plus takes some amount of planning.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    philologos wrote: »
    Of course, but if something is premeditated, then there is a motive somewhere surely?

    Often one can determine this by simply looking at who, or what is targeted. In this case all targets seem to have been based around political entities.

    A lot of people thought the arizona shooter was motivated politically because he shot a DEMOCRATIC congresswomen.

    So naturally people thought he was linked to Sarah Palin, the tea party etc, right wing politics, all got blamed etc.

    But it turned out he had no political allegiancies, he was just mad and still is mentally unstable. He read both mein kampf and the communist manifesto. He hated the world. This guy could easily fall into the same category, just pure hate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    philologos wrote: »
    If I just wanted to go for a massacre*, I'd have to say my first thought wouldn't be a Labour party youth camp and certainly not after 4:30pm. The Norwegian government seem to be regarding this as a political attack given the statement from the Foreign Minister that I quoted above.

    * Not that I would

    *Sigh*

    I was responding to your statement about motive being required. It isn't always. I wasn't referring to this incident, it does appear that there was motive involved, but that's it, it appears, nothing more. We don't know anything for certain. Oh and trying to imagine yourself committing this atrocity and looking to that as an insight into explaining the why is ludicrous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Gnobe: Except that this killer does have far-right political leanings according to what we know about it thus far. Simply put, I can't really say that this attack was just an attack in general on the citizens of Oslo in the same way I can say the the London bombings were an attack in general on Londoners. There seems to be a specific focus in this case that wasn't present in situations such as the London bombings or the Madrid bombings.

    Malty T: What do people generally plan around? An intention? A motive?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Lux23 wrote: »
    He is defintely intelligent, any simpleton can get a gun and shoot a few people but to plant a bomb to divert attention away so you can walk into a camp full of young people and kill 80 plus takes some amount of planning.

    You're assuming he planned it all by himself. Assuming, isn't knowing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭WesternNight


    Malty_T wrote: »
    You're assuming he planned it all by himself. Assuming, isn't knowing.

    From what I've seen and heard it sounds like it was very well planned, and I would expect he'd be quite intelligent. Saying he's intelligent wouldn't be complimenting him or anything, though... it would just be stating a fact.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous


    Out of nowhere, Sky just said "It is not clear if he had other Neo-Nazi Accomplices". Where did they get that he was a neo-Nazi? Grahh, makes me angry.


This discussion has been closed.
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