Oslo bombed

Lux23 · 23-07-2011 02:12PM

sollar wrote: »

I would like to ban all Muslims from Ireland. Show me a country where they have integrated well and brought something positive.

Just to be safe they should probably ban all Irish people from Ireland too.

Haelium · 23-07-2011 02:12PM

weiland79 wrote: »

What do you do with a person that kills that many people?

The normal rules don't seem to apply. Locking him up for the rest of his life just doesn't seem to cut it.

Why? Once he is no longer able to kill people the problem is solved. This attitude of "Torture him, he's a monster!" is unnecessary. We should look at his motives and give him a chance to explain himself. There is no excuse for this kind of massacre, but we can still try to understand what drove him to this.

Nothing can be gained from punishment of this individual.

scopper · 23-07-2011 02:13PM

karma_ wrote: »

I wouldn't call this a spree, it's more like domestic terrorism and a better comparison would be the Oklahoma city bombings, it's political, which spree killings generally are not.

Sure they are not generally political but many are. According to Wiki (so it may be incorrect of course) it is listed as a spree alongside other single-handed politically motivated attacks. I think the idea is that if one person kills a lot of people alone in a short amount of time it constitutes a spree.

philologos · 23-07-2011 02:13PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm not really comfotable calling this a political event because it feels like legitimising it...this is a grievous murderous event carried out by a person with profound pssychological and social problems. He may have thought it was political but what he thinks really dosnt count for much clearly. This is just a horrible, sad atrocity.

To me, a concerted attempt to kill the Norwegian prime minister and an outright attack on youth members of his party must be politically motivated in some way.

Einhard · 23-07-2011 02:18PM

philologos wrote: »

Given the last century of world history this really deserves a :rolleyes:

I would have thought the little

was indication enough of my facetiousness.

scopper · 23-07-2011 02:19PM

Here is some data relating to terrorist attacks in Europe.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/

In 2010 99.6% of all terrorist attacks in Europe were carried out by non-Muslims.

Also worth noting: 0.4% of terrorist attacks [in Europe] from 2007 to 2009 could be attributed to extremist Muslims.

suicide_circus · 23-07-2011 02:19PM

philologos wrote: »

To me, a concerted attempt to kill the Norwegian prime minister and an outright attack on youth members of his party must be politically motivated in some way.

politics(Noun)

1. The activities associated with the governance of a country or area.
2. The activities of governments concerning the political relations between countries.

This guy just killed a load of people in cold blood, that's not political. He may have thought it was political but he's clearly a deranged nut so I think we can readily dismiss his opinion on the matter.

Mark200 · 23-07-2011 02:22PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

politics(Noun)

1. The activities associated with the governance of a country or area.
2. The activities of governments concerning the political relations between countries.

This guy just killed a load of people in cold blood, that's not political. He may have thought it was political but he's clearly a deranged nut so I think we can readily dismiss his opinion on the matter.

Surely your definition of politics does imply that his actions were politically motivated.. "associated with the governance of a country or area". He went after one political party. He attacked the party's leader - the country's Prime Minister. He then went to the location of the party's youth branch and tried to kill as many people as possible there.

Admitting that the attack was politically motivated is not justifying his actions. They can be politically motivated while also being carried out by a "deranged nut". They're not mutually exclusive.

philologos · 23-07-2011 02:25PM

suicide circus: A clearly intelligent, articulate, and politically motivated person carried out these attacks. Given what we currently know that's becoming pretty clear.

suicide_circus · 23-07-2011 02:26PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Surely your definition of politics does imply that his actions were politically motivated.. "associated with the governance of a country or area". He went after one political party. He attacked the party's leader - the country's Prime Minister. He then went to the location of the party's youth branch and tried to kill as many people as possible there.

Admitting that the attack was politically motivated is not justifying his actions. They can be politically motivated while also being carried out by a "deranged nut". They're not mutually exclusive.

surely for something to be political, it must engage in the political process? In norway political processes are based on democracy. If anything this event is unpolitical.

CramCycle · 23-07-2011 02:26PM

Einhard wrote: »

Considering the political and religious affiliations of the attacker, would these people now advocate a moratorium on Christian immigration, or a hardening of attitudes towards Christians? I mean, why idiotically tar only one group of people with the one brush?

I'd happily ban anyone proudly claiming to be a roman catholic from this country, from the crusades up to modern day pedophilia it is just a disgusting insult to everyone in Ireland that we tolerate their presence.

Turtwig · 23-07-2011 02:27PM

philologos wrote: »

suicide circus: A clearly intelligent, articulate, and politically motivated person carried out these attacks. Given what we currently know that's becoming pretty clear.

How do you know he's intelligent and articulate?

philologos · 23-07-2011 02:28PM

CramCycle wrote: »

I'd happily ban anyone proudly claiming to be a roman catholic from this country...

[...]

suicide_circus · 23-07-2011 02:28PM

philologos wrote: »

suicide circus: A clearly intelligent, articulate, and politically motivated person carried out these attacks. Given what we currently know that's becoming pretty clear.

ineed. however the event itself was not political, it was just murder.

karma_ · 23-07-2011 02:30PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

ineed. however the event itself was not political, it was just murder.

Yes it was murder, politically motivated murder.

philologos · 23-07-2011 02:31PM

suicide circus: You can say that as much as you want, but it is a very clear political terrorist attack.

Malty T: Reading through some of the links that people have provided on this thread so far.

Turtwig · 23-07-2011 02:31PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Surely your definition of politics does imply that his actions were politically motivated.. "associated with the governance of a country or area". He went after one political party. He attacked the party's leader - the country's Prime Minister. He then went to the location of the party's youth branch and tried to kill as many people as possible there.

Admitting that the attack was politically motivated is not justifying his actions. They can be politically motivated while also being carried out by a "deranged nut". They're not mutually exclusive.

The definition doesn't imply anything. It just leaves open the possibility. For all we know, this may have been a revenge attack for something personal that happened to him or someone close to him.

Oh_Noes · 23-07-2011 02:33PM

I wonder if this is just wiki-vandalism or is the term "boobies" legitimately used for something now?

suicide_circus · 23-07-2011 02:33PM

karma_ wrote: »

Yes it was murder, politically motivated murder.

sorry i fail to see the politics in the murder of 90 children. he may have thought it was political but due to his extreme insanity, his judgement was somewhat clowded.

CramCycle · 23-07-2011 02:34PM

philologos wrote: »

[...]

Maybe I should have put a :pac: in there so my pointing out of the general retardness of most comments on this thread are was more obvious?

admittedly I only read a few pages so maybe I missed a bigger point

Corsendonk · 23-07-2011 02:34PM

Does the Garda monitor the Legion of Mary?

suicide_circus · 23-07-2011 02:34PM

philologos wrote: »

suicide circus: You can say that as much as you want, but it is a very clear political terrorist attack..

you have won me over with the eloquence of your argument

Norwayviking · 23-07-2011 02:34PM

Malty_T wrote: »

The definition doesn't imply anything. It just leaves open the possibility. For all we know, this may have been a revenge attack for something personal that happened to him or someone close to him.

That is true,it will all just be speculations as this time untill he gives the motive behind these horrible attacks.
But since he was part of an neonazi right wing group,it seems like it will point more against a political motive.

Mark200 · 23-07-2011 02:38PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

surely for something to be political, it must engage in the political process? In norway political processes are based on democracy. If anything this event is unpolitical.

No it doesn't have to engage in the political process to be politicall motivated. The IRA, for example, would be politically motivated. Because their actions were related to the politics of their situation. And their actions were an attempt to influence politics. Saying ones actions are politically motivated does not mean that they are legitimate or right.

Haelium · 23-07-2011 02:40PM

There is no point arguing over the motives at this point, it's all just wild speculation.

We will know the motives in the coming days when the authorities have investigated the crime. Blaming video games, Christianity, conservatism, Islam, Liberalism, Freemasonry etc is just pointless.

philologos · 23-07-2011 02:40PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

you have won me over with the eloquence of your argument

You've already had it very clearly explained to you by other posters.

It was a very clear political attack on the Prime Minister and the youth section of his political party. Otherwise it seems a little bit of a coincidence that he went for the Government office and went looking for the youth camp of the Labour party doesn't it?

profitius · 23-07-2011 02:41PM

What a special case he is. They say he was a member of a website with pro Isreali views. The group he targeted are pushing for a free Palestine state.

Also he is a freemason!! Another freemason was Thomas Hamilton of the Dunblane massacre.

Einhard · 23-07-2011 02:45PM

profitius wrote: »

Also he is a freemason!! Another freemason was Thomas Hamilton of the Dunblane massacre.

Also he was norwegian!! Another norwegian was John Arne Riise of the 2001-2008 Liverpoool team.

bnt · 23-07-2011 02:45PM

I thought the Masonic connection was speculation, but Dagbladet has confrmation by another member of the same order. (Google translation, cleaned up by me.)

The head of "St. Olaus of the three pillars", a division of the Masonic Order, doesn't understand it.

"I can confirm that he is a member of the Masonic Order and is part of our lodge. I do not understand it", said a badly affected Harald Manheim to Dagbladet.

Manheim is a Mster of Lodge "St. Olaus to the three pillars" of the Masonic Order.

He says he is deeply shocked by the mass killings, and sat up to at half past one in the night to monitor developments. He had no idea that it was a member of the Masonic Order who was behind this.

edit: the same piece also talks about the "Vienna School", which I take to mean the Austrian School of economics: very free market, anti-socialism. The ruling Labour party in Norway is a socialist party, and he talks about "Stoltenberg Youth" in online posts. (Jens Stoltenberg is the PM of Norway.) If my reading of that is accurate, it explains why he targeted that Labour youth camp: politics.

profitius · 23-07-2011 02:46PM

Einhard wrote: »

Also he was norwegian!! Another norwegian was John Arne Riise of the 2001-2008 Liverpoool team.

Well spotted!

Oslo bombed

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