Catholic Church claims it is above the law

Mickeroo · 17-07-2011 10:07PM

crucamim wrote: »

I think that it is right and proper that the Catholic Church controls the schools which it owns, that the GAA controls the property which it own and that I control the house which I own. It is also right and proper that Catholics can send their defenceless little children to schools which do not employ anti-Catholic teachers. Anyone who does not have confidence in Catholic schools should not send his children to a Catholic school.

You should send your children to self defense classes if they're as defenceless as you make out. You seem pretty hung up on how defencelss they are and how everyone who doesn't go to mass anymore wants to hurt them with their dangerous ant-catholic subjects like geography, maths, history, english, irish and , god help us, PE. Maybe you should home school them that way they'll never have to come into contact with all us catholic school educated bigots out here in the real world. Your world view is fascinating. Seriously.

crucamim · 17-07-2011 10:09PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

If the Catholic Church want to control schools try funding them with the money you have paid in child rape compensation claims.

Catholics have as much right to free education as any non-Catholic.

Zebra3 · 17-07-2011 10:09PM

crucamim wrote: »

The reporting should be done by the victims or by the parents or guardians of the victim. Let the police take it from there.

Reporting should be done by anyone with knowledge of such terrible crimes against children.

Or have you got a problem with that? :rolleyes:

crucamim · 17-07-2011 10:10PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

You have posted this in previous threads. Boring.......

And nobody has provided an answer.

Solair · 17-07-2011 10:10PM

Even from a simple quality of service and cost saving point of view, a secular community-based school system makes far more sense than the current setup.

If you think about it, we have umpteen different flavours of school : Catholic Girls NS, Catholic Boys NS, slightly posher Catholic Girls NS, Slightly posher Catholic Boys NS, Chuch of Ireland NS, Educate together NS, Gael Scoil NS, you name it...

At second level, you've a similar mess based on different churches, religious orders and gender and social class segregation.

The state pays for all the teachers, the on-going maintenance of buildings, etc etc

If you'd a secular community school system, you could have a decent, community-focused, well resourced schools in every town, suburb, village etc. These could be well-resourced and integrated into other community facilities like the local library and sports centre.

E.g. if you had a campus in your suburb/town which had a really good local primary school that was open to everyone, not just one religious group or gender. A similarly really good secondary school. You could have a Gael Scoil option on the same campus along side a well resourced library and a sports centre.

The campus could also be used for community centre and adult education services too.

You could have things like a psychologist, a whole range of support services for all the various students at the schools.

You could even have a community creche located there.

The current setup we have is just, quite frankly, nuts and reflects everything that is wrong with Irish planning / delivery of services. It's driven by historical nonsense and vested interests rather than trying to deliver the best possible services to the community at the most reasonable cost possible.

From my observations, Ireland has shown absolutely no ability to organise public services and seem to be constantly wrapped up in dealing with obsolete historical arrangements and vested interests.

The only thing that should be of concern in education is the quality of education delivered and value for money for the tax payer.

Pandering to religious institutions should not even enter that equation.

Knight who says Meh · 17-07-2011 10:11PM

crucamim wrote: »

I think that it is right and proper that the Catholic Church controls the schools which it owns, that the GAA controls the property which it own and that I control the house which I own. It is also right and proper that Catholics can send their defenceless little children to schools which do not employ anti-Catholic teachers. Anyone who does not have confidence in Catholic schools should not send his children to a Catholic school.

The schools were paid for by the people and are funded by the state and now that Catholics are on the decline and there is dwindling demand for catholic indoctrination in schools this should and will change. Besides seeing as they owe millions for raping the children they educate they will need to make some sort of gesture and raise some funds.
The rest of your post is obviously bollix, you know it, I know it and every one who reads it knows it.

partyatmygaff · 17-07-2011 10:11PM

crucamim wrote: »

Can you prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that you would not:-

a) beat up defenceless Catholic children,
b) insult defenceless Catholic children,
c) encourage or allow anti-Catholic pupils to beat up Catholic children,
d) encourage or permit anti-Catholic pupils to insult Catholic children,
e) discriminate against Catholic children in disciplinary matters,
f) encourage other teachers to do any of the above,
g) cover-up other teachers bullying Catholic children?

Are you serious?

There are many less ridiculous reasons for wishing to keep schools founded by religious orders running with a religious ethos. There's no need to resort to basing your opinion on such ridiculous reasons.

crucamim · 17-07-2011 10:14PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

The solution to religion is simple. No religion in schools, and if you want your kids to grow up as catholics, bring them to sunday school where they learn to become catholics.
I don't think there's a child in the history of the state that actually takes religion class serious.

I would have no quarrel with an end to teaching religion in school. I have been advocating that for more than 40 years. BUT I do not want the education of Catholic children to be controlled in any way by anti-Catholics. I do not want any Catholic child to be bullied by an anti-Catholic teacher. Nor do I want Catholic teachers or children to be bullied by anti-Catholic pupils.

It is not the teaching of religion which keeps Catholics safe. It is the segregation which provides the protection.

Mickeroo · 17-07-2011 10:14PM

crucamim wrote: »

Can you prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that you would not:-

a) beat up defenceless Catholic children,
b) insult defenceless Catholic children,
c) encourage or allow anti-Catholic pupils to beat up Catholic children,
d) encourage or permit anti-Catholic pupils to insult Catholic children,
e) discriminate against Catholic children in disciplinary matters,
f) encourage other teachers to do any of the above,
g) cover-up other teachers bullying Catholic children?

Literally posted the same post in another thread a couple of weeks ago.

Knight who says Meh · 17-07-2011 10:14PM

crucamim wrote: »

Can you prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that you would not:-

a) beat up defenceless Catholic children,
b) insult defenceless Catholic children,
c) encourage or allow anti-Catholic pupils to beat up Catholic children,
d) encourage or permit anti-Catholic pupils to insult Catholic children,
e) discriminate against Catholic children in disciplinary matters,
f) encourage other teachers to do any of the above,
g) cover-up other teachers bullying Catholic children?
[/QUOTEOnly if they have an identifying tattoo or a black arm band on.:D
But are you serious? You have posted the same trolling nonsense in another thread almost word for word.
But seeing as you dont mind the institution you are so fond of raping and beating your kids why would this be an issue if others did it?

Paparazzo · 17-07-2011 10:16PM

crucamim wrote: »

Can you prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that you would not:-

a) beat up defenceless Catholic children,
b) insult defenceless Catholic children,
c) encourage or allow anti-Catholic pupils to beat up Catholic children,
d) encourage or permit anti-Catholic pupils to insult Catholic children,
e) discriminate against Catholic children in disciplinary matters,
f) encourage other teachers to do any of the above,
g) cover-up other teachers bullying Catholic children?

Are you serious? I think I can speak for all religions, hardened catholics and atheists, going on the last few pages if we had to pick a teacher for out kids between Ghost Buster and you, Ghost Buster would win by a mile.

smokingman · 17-07-2011 10:16PM

crucamim wrote: »

And nobody has provided an answer.

If, based on your ramblings, your question is that if/when you molest or rape a defenceless child and then go to your medicine man to be forgiven, you want to know that they won't tell the Guards....then the answer is plainly, "get yourself a shotgun, go into a darkened room and do society a favour".

Thank you.

crucamim · 17-07-2011 10:18PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

The schools were paid for by the people and are funded by the state and now that Catholics are on the decline and there is dwindling demand for catholic indoctrination in schools this should and will change. Besides seeing as they owe millions for raping the children they educate they will need to make some sort of gesture and raise some funds.
The rest of your post is obviously bollix, you know it, I know it and every one who reads it knows it.

So we have yet another person who is tryng to use the child abuse scandal to steal schools from Catholics and put defenceless Catholic children into the clutches of anti-Catholics. Our enemies never tire.

Pace2008 · 17-07-2011 10:20PM

crucamim wrote: »

Can you prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that you would not:-

a) beat up defenceless Catholic children,
b) insult defenceless Catholic children,
c) encourage or allow anti-Catholic pupils to beat up Catholic children,
d) encourage or permit anti-Catholic pupils to insult Catholic children,
e) discriminate against Catholic children in disciplinary matters,
f) encourage other teachers to do any of the above,
g) cover-up other teachers bullying Catholic children?

Definite troll.

Some of the stuff I see hardcore Catholic posters come out with is pretty incredible, but you're obviously pulling the piss.

Knight who says Meh · 17-07-2011 10:21PM

crucamim wrote: »

I would have no quarrel with an end to teaching religion in school. I have been advocating that for more than 40 years. BUT I do not want the education of Catholic children to be controlled in any way by anti-Catholics. I do not want any Catholic child to be bullied by an anti-Catholic teacher. Nor do I want Catholic teachers or children to be bullied by anti-Catholic pupils.

It is not the teaching of religion which keeps Catholics safe. It is the segregation which provides the protection.

Define anti catholic please.\

Stop with the hysterical scare mongering mock paranoid bollox. I was a catholic child. My owns kids entire peer group is mostly catholic. Nobody has any intention of hurting children, in fact the contrary is true hence the many many posts here and elsewhere.
Its hilarious that you are accusing others of damaging children or intending to damage children whilst defending the institution which has been proven time and again of damaging children.

crucamim · 17-07-2011 10:21PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

Are you serious? I think I can speak for all religions, hardened catholics and atheists, going on the last few pages if we had to pick a teacher for out kids between Ghost Buster and you, Ghost Buster would win by a mile.

As you have posted anti-Catholic propaganda, you are hardly a fit person to speak on behalf of Catholics.

philologos · 17-07-2011 10:21PM

As for whether or not religion class can be taken seriously. The reason it isn't taken seriously is because it isn't taught in an adequate manner in a lot of schools. I think the Junior Cert and Leaving Cert courses are very good though in that they encourage thought about other world religions and indeed irreligion and the impact that they have on the world. They encourage thought, and indeed personal formation of what to believe or not to believe. That's ultimately very valuable as far as I see it.

This is really off-topic though.

crucamim · 17-07-2011 10:23PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

Define anti catholic please.

Anyone who hurts or tries to hurt Catholics or who approves of others doing so. Anyone who insults Catholics or who approves of others doing so.

Knight who says Meh · 17-07-2011 10:24PM

crucamim wrote: »

As you have posted anti-Catholic propaganda, you are hardly a fit person to speak on behalf of Catholics.

Does anti catholic propaganda just include taking heed of and commenting upon the latest child abuse scandal?

crucamim · 17-07-2011 10:25PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

Nobody has any intention of hurting children,

I do not believe you.

Min · 17-07-2011 10:26PM

Biggins wrote: »

Hitler created a good eventual car industry and good roads, Mussolini made the trains supposedly run on time, Bertie supposedly was great at picking winners at horse races and getting free/cheap accommodation, there are many more examples big and small - all indicate that despite the person/org' and their deeds of good, don't sometimes make up or excuse their other deeds of bad!

You godwinned the topic.

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Turkey farmers have a great record in turkey care. It is the biggest provider of food, shelter and care to turkeys in the world. Millions of turkeys are cared for every year thanks to turkey farmers.

Pssssssssssst. Just dont mention Christmas

If only they had turkeys in Somalia. Kenya and other nations around the horn of Africa, then it would be like Christmas for the starving people.

johnmcdnl wrote: »

so instead of giving money to the church people could give money to other charities maybe to provide education????

What charities?

Bambi wrote: »

I went to a catholic run school for a few years...worst years of my life, shower of c**ts

Yes I can see you only went to school for a few years, one doesn't learn that type of language at school, Catholic or otherwise...

Opinicus · 17-07-2011 10:27PM

crucamim wrote: »

Anyone who hurts or tries to hurt Catholics or who approves of others doing so.

By that definition most of the Bishops and Priests etc who covered up child abuse are anti-Catholic.

Mickeroo · 17-07-2011 10:27PM

crucamim wrote: »

Anyone who hurts or tries to hurt Catholics or who approves of others doing so. Anyone who insults Catholics or who approves of others doing so.

Like the catholic priests who were raping catholic children? As far as I can see they're the only anti-catholics on or near this thread going by your description.

Knight who says Meh · 17-07-2011 10:32PM

crucamim wrote: »

Anyone who hurts or tries to hurt Catholics or who approves of others doing so. Anyone who insults Catholics or who approves of others doing so.

So let me get this right.
If you are shocked and angry by the findings of
This
This
This
or
this
You are anti catholic.??

Im not fond of concentration camps or apartied so Im probably anti nazi and anti racism as well.

Biggins · 17-07-2011 10:33PM

Min wrote: »

You godwinned the topic.

...It was that or "Yore Ma" it!

Knight who says Meh · 17-07-2011 10:34PM

And i quote: If only they had turkeys in Somalia. Kenya and other nations around the horn of Africa, then it would be like Christmas for the starving people.

Yup. Abuse scandals emerging from those countries as well. Why are you agreeing with me?

Mickeroo · 17-07-2011 10:36PM

Min wrote: »

Yes I can see you only went to school for a few years, one doesn't learn that type of language at school, Catholic or otherwise...

Something tells me its a long time since you've overheard the average ten year old talking to their mates :pac: :P

Biggins · 17-07-2011 10:36PM

charlemont wrote: »

School is for education not religion, If you feel like that bring his ass to church every Sunday, Im sure the priests will appreciate it. Especially the "ass" bit.

:pac:

I LOL at that!
I could kiss yours for posting it!

Ghost Buster · 17-07-2011 10:38PM

crucamim wrote: »

I do not believe you.

TROLL!!!!!!!
or stupid....
I chose TROLL.

Tayla · 17-07-2011 10:39PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

The Catholic Church is an organisation that has overseen the rape and torture of Irish children.

Any other organisation to have done so would have been declared illegal and had its assets seized. :mad:

Exactly right and yet they can get away with whatever the hell they want.

mackg wrote: »

On a serious note even if all this law meant was people stopped confessing crimes at least we could be sure that the perpetrator was going to hell.

Good point!

Min wrote: »

If I go to confession it is done under Canon law, I don't want the state getting involved in how a religion operates, that is what the Chinese communist does, though we have people from the Labour party who in the past were open communist lovers.

Well what about Jehovahs witnesses, if an adult needs a blood transfusion and refuses then the state will let them die....if a child needs one then the state will step in and overrule them.

This is about protecting children, who cares how the religion operates?

bleg wrote: »

How can a priest even morally justify keeping this sort of information secret?

Exactly, who would Jesus have protected? the child molester who is probably going to molest again? or else the innocent children?

Some people here seem to think that it might not really make that much of a difference as the crime will have already been committed but although it is in part about getting justice for that crime, it's also to PREVENT FUTURE ABUSE. That priest keeping quiet might result in more children being abused and yet a priest can justify that??

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

im proud of the fact my son wont have anything to do with this cult of pure evil

I'm actually disgusted with myself for getting my son christened, however that was before they changed it so that you can never leave the church and I was a young mum at the time, my daughter however will not be christened as the church absolutely sickens me.

Italia wrote: »

If you're Catholic, then you follow ALL the requirements. There isn't a middle way where you can cherry pick. It's an all or nothing.
You don't like confession (or other parts), fine. its your choice...but you also give up ALL the rest (whatever it may be - good or bad).

What about the priests? They don't follow these requirements themselves.

If the church doesn't want to follow the law of the land, the laws decided by the people then I propose we take their vote away. Why should they have a vote in who runs the country if they consider their own laws to be higher than their own.

Also if someone went to a priest and said "Father, i'm going to put a bomb in a shopping centre tomorrow and kill everyone in it" then what is the priest do? Does he allow this mass murder to go ahead?

Catholic Church claims it is above the law

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