Race hate gang in Temple Bar orgy of violence [mod note #1]

Reekwind · 09-07-2011 03:04PM

Yahew wrote: »

1) The alleged perps are all one colour.
2) The victims are all one colour.
3) There is no indication of robbery.
4) There are, apparently, lots of different victims, unrelated to each other - of the same colour - on the same night.
5) There is no indication of a a previous altercation in a pub, or a row outside a pub. That's standard temple bar stuff. This is targeting of random people ont he street for a reason, which didn't involve theft. Whats the reason? What would Occam say?

If you set out to inflict violence on five different people in Temple Bar at 3:30am then isn't there an excellent chance that you would set upon five people with white skin? Based on your logic, I guess that would make you a self-loathing race traitor of some sort

We'll see when this comes to court but there must be some evidence that this was a racially motivated attack. And by evidence I don't mean 'well they're black and they're white. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink'

Is it not rare for gangs to attack strangers in temple bar, as opposed to altercations outside pubs, or rows spilling out.

Do you have any evidence of this? Can you provide some?

Anecdotal only, I'm afraid. Perhaps you know where to get some statistics that would shed light on the issue?

But then it should be common knowledge that irrational violence - motivated not by material gain - is far from uncommon on Irish streets at three o' clock in the morning. Certainly too common to assume that the only other alternative is race

MontyBurnz is saying it: he is actually claiming the only obvious racism here is from the detective ( if he exists)

No, that's you erecting a strawman. MontyBurnz is raising the possibility of institutional racism. You have twisted this into "only obvious racism here is from the detective" while accusing others of relying on strawmen

twinytwo · 09-07-2011 03:22PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

So, according to you:

Paul McGrath ---> not Irish
Phil Lynott ----> not Irish

It's time to deploy the five mullah facepalm...

em they are both half irish... which is more than can be said for most of the others...

LighterGuy · 09-07-2011 03:26PM

I dont really see why people are arguing :rolleyes:

facts are a bunch of black guys jumped and beat up a bunch of white guys. Detective says its racially motivated.

A senior source explained: "We believe that what happened on the night was motivated by racism -- that is racism against white people.

"When the suspects were first questioned they tried to use racism as a defence -- they tried to say that they had been racially abused by the victims for being black.

"But absolutely no evidence of that was ever uncovered and gardai are satisfied that the culprits were not racially abused."

why are people debating it?
.. are people trying to honestly say "oh it wasnt racism" - are we living in such a PC world where people dispute facts? :rolleyes:

Monty Burnz · 09-07-2011 03:34PM

LighterGuy wrote: »

I dont really see why people are arguing :rolleyes:

facts are a bunch of black guys jumped and beat up a bunch of white guys. Detective says its racially motivated.

Detective may or may not exist. Detective may be talking out of his arse if he does.

LighterGuy wrote: »

why are people debating it?
.. are people trying to honestly say "oh it wasnt racism" - are we living in such a PC world where people dispute facts? :rolleyes:

The fact is that we have a single report from a sensationalist newspaper. Said newspaper has a strong incentive to sensationalise events to sell more papers. And said paper, like others, invents quotes from 'sources' as it sees fit.

As has been stated many, many times already (by me and others) these attacks may have been racially motivated. The dispute is whether this is already certain, or whether it is merely possible/likely.

For my money, the facts will be established in a court of law, not in a lousy tabloid rag. YMMV.

Reekwind · 09-07-2011 03:37PM

LighterGuy wrote:

.. are people trying to honestly say "oh it wasnt racism" - are we living in such a PC world where people dispute facts?

And the word of a "senior source" is fact? This well may have been a racially motivated assault but anyone who sets out the "facts" now, ie before this has been before a court, is jumping to conclusions. The Herald and most of this thread would fit in that category

But then as a rule I find that anyone who uses the expression "PC" in serious conversation really isn't all that interested in "facts"

twinytwo · 09-07-2011 03:41PM

personally i couldnt care if they are black white yellow or orange any one who stamps on someones head when they are on the ground should be put against a wall and shot

arybvtcw0eolkf · 09-07-2011 03:43PM

Reekwind wrote: »

As everyone here knows, this is not particularly rare behaviour in Temple Bar.

Actually the main streets in Templebar are pretty safe, well policed and you've got bouncers on every door who in the main won't stand idly by and let someone get beat up.

Only going on my own personal experiences I'd say your in more danger, a lot more, a long the Quays (both north and south quays).

And God forbid a visitor ventures onto the boardwalk - guys, if your visiting Dublin & you haven't got your smarts about you avoid the boardwalk - don't go onto it for love 'nor money would be my advice.

Just to go off in another direction for a moment...

A lot of street violence could be curtained with a staggered pub/club closing time, but nooo - that would make too much sense for Paddy the Pig.

Instead we chuck thousands onto the streets from 02:30 to 03:30 and into chipper's, night links & taxi ranks.

The logic in that beats the bollox out of me.

mikemac · 09-07-2011 03:48PM

"When the DJ hit the floor, the culprit stamped on the man's head in what was a ferocious display of violence.

"This victim is very lucky to be alive -- the entire left side of his head was broken because of that stamping incident.

I don't know all the charges or legal terms

But I'd classify a kick or stamp to the head as incredibly serious

If you don't die you can still suffer brain damage with a 70kg plus guy stamping on you.
I don't know if there is a such a thing as attempted manslaughter. But the person who stamped should not be charged with just assault, it's more serious then that

LighterGuy · 09-07-2011 03:52PM

Reekwind wrote: »

But then as a rule I find that anyone who uses the expression "PC" in serious conversation really isn't all that interested in "facts"

You have to accept that there are "crusaders" out there who jump out of woodwork to add politcally correct arguments. Weather you accept it or not there are a good number of people who just talk s*ite. Especially when it comes to racial or of sexuality topic.

But if people are skeptical of reports. I can accept that. I too take everything with a pinch of salt... but why stop here?
How come we dont question other things? ... like if these were "junkies" instead. Would we have a big 25 page+ thread debating? we wouldnt. we have dozens of posts with "scumbag junkies" etc. How would you know they were junkies by the same logic? :rolleyes:)

take this:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0705/1224300091205.html

no mention of any racist actions involved. Why? ever think because there wasnt in that case? ... or there was in this?
But yet, where is the debtate about that? ... after all, be skeptical in one situation, be skeptical in another? .. reports are reports.

twinytwo · 09-07-2011 04:05PM

mikemac wrote: »

I don't know all the charges or legal terms

But I'd classify a kick or stamp to the head as incredibly serious

If you don't die you can still suffer brain damage with a 70kg plus guy stamping on you.
I don't know if there is a such a thing as attempted manslaughter. But the person who stamped should not be charged with just assault, it's more serious then that

Im open to correct on this but was there not some law brought about kicking people in the head could be charged as attempted murder?

mikemac · 09-07-2011 04:20PM

twinytwo wrote: »

Im open to correct on this but was there not some law brought about kicking people in the head could be charged as attempted murder?

There was a lot of talk about it last winter after some cyclist got ambushed by kids and took blows to the head. Happened in Crumlin in Dublin

Joe Duffy took a lot of calls over it and people did propose attempted murder for a blow to the head.
Nothing came of it in the end though. Maybe one day

Killer Wench · 09-07-2011 05:02PM

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Europe consists of 50 countries, the vast majority of these having no former colonial empires, yet you think its okay to just lump a whole varied continent together with incredibly different cultures and histories and speak of the "European" colonisation of Africa?

Not all Europeans are residents of a former colonial power, but everyone born in Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Ethiopia etc is African. You have no problem making a generalisation which is not strictly speaking correct yet you have a problem making a generalisation which is undeniably correct.

Do you take issue with African-Americans who identify themselves as such? Are they being too general and should correctly identify themselves as Angolan-Americans, Sudanese-Americans, Kenyan-Americans? Do you correct them and explain how it is wrong of them to lump Algerian, Tunisian, Sudanse, Kenyan and Egyptian into one broad term?

I'm Black American. Most Black Americans have no problem identifying themselves as Black. I'm also Native. Most Natives have no problem identifying themselves as Indians (American). The terms African American and Native American were coined by the United States government as 'culturally sensitive' terms to replace the use of Negro and Indian as official terms to describe these respective communities. Most times, the only time you see/hear the terms African American being used is when we fill out job applications, conduct the census, or hear a news report on the tv/radio. These are offically acknowledged as politically correct terms, it does not mean that the Black community widely accepts their use.

I have many Somali-American, Nigerian-American, and Eritrean-American friends; that is how they identify themselves as their parents and grandparents were born in those countries and held citizenship there at one time. Their cultural and ethnic origins can be traced to those specific countries and most still identify by tribal affiliation. These individuals identify themselves as being part of the Black community, but they are less likely to identify themselves as African-American because they can trace their heritage to a specific country. This is why Barack Obama is accepted as our first Black president, but when you see him described in print, he is said to be Kenyan-American.

'African-Americans' are officially defined as individuals who trace their lingeage to Africa through the historical legacy of slavery; it is not our fault that at one time, the slave owners and government conspired to eliminate kinship and tribal ties amongst the slaves. My great-great grandmother was born and slave; she was born on a Monday and sold on a Tuesday, growing up never knowing her mother. As a baby, she was bundled up and place at the feet of the slavemaster's children's bed so as to keep their legs and feet warm as they slept. The human element was denied for slaves, as was any notion of African tribal identity.

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 09-07-2011 05:07PM

mikemac wrote: »

There was a lot of talk about it last winter after some cyclist got ambushed by kids and took blows to the head. Happened in Crumlin in Dublin

Joe Duffy took a lot of calls over it and people did propose attempted murder for a blow to the head.
Nothing came of it in the end though. Maybe one day

i think the free legal aid lawyer for the scumbag would be stuck to give a sob story on why their client danced on someones head.

bacon? · 09-07-2011 05:15PM

So now it's not only a random unprovoked attack from our local scumbags we have to worry about, we have this carry on.

Yet another reason not to go back.

I've been living in China for over a year and a half, and there's no scumbags here, it's great. You don't have to worry about getting smashed over the head with a bottle, for no reason when out on the town.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 09-07-2011 05:18PM

Amani Freezing Tide wrote: »

i think the free legal aid lawyer for the scumbag would be stuck to give a sob story on why their client danced on someones head.

Seen a lad get an unmerciful kicking on Aston Quay about three weeks ago.

Got knocked out by a scumbag at the Ballyfermot bus, then a kick in the face.. Myself and a mate pulled him off and got set upon by his mates (silly fvckers).. sorted that out and when I turned around their was a fat geebag chic dancing (literally) on the lads head and kicking him in the face - sickening.

The guys got on the Ballyer bus, when the lad come around he refused an ambulance and got his bus sometime later.. I've wondered what happened when he eventually had to go to hospital what injuries he'd received.

His right ear was bleeding from inside and he'd significant pooling under both eyes - I've no doubt he ended up in hospital at some stage.

Monty Burnz · 09-07-2011 05:40PM

Yahew wrote: »

I have to say your posting on this thread is indicative of a very weak mind.

Either somebody is taking a very, very long time to read a few posts, or somebody realises he's been shown to be talking out of his arse about what he claimed people were saying...

:pac:

CiaranC · 09-07-2011 05:45PM

bacon? wrote: »

So now it's not only a random unprovoked attack from our local scumbags we have to worry about, we have this carry on.

Yet another reason not to go back.

I've been living in China for over a year and a half, and there's no scumbags here, it's great. You don't have to worry about getting smashed over the head with a bottle, for no reason when out on the town.

Grand all we need to do is turn ourselves into a communist police state and all our problems are solved

RichieC · 09-07-2011 05:47PM

Surprised you can even access boards from the peoples republic...

Monty Burnz · 09-07-2011 05:48PM

CiaranC wrote: »

Grand all we need to do is turn ourselves into a communist police state and all our problems are solved

Well, some of them...

But I think the point is that other societies don't have this sort of scumbaggery, or else it is far rarer there. We don't have to accept it.

Monty Burnz · 09-07-2011 05:50PM

RichieC wrote: »

Surprised you can even access boards from the peoples republic...

Well, he won't be able to if I mention Tiananmen Square massacre... :pac:

bacon? · 09-07-2011 05:51PM

CiaranC wrote: »

Grand all we need to do is turn ourselves into a communist police state and all our problems are solved

No need to go that far Ciaran, but we could start by handing out stiffer penaltys for act of random violence, joyriding etc...

bacon? · 09-07-2011 05:52PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well, he won't be able to if I mention Tiananmen Square massacre... :pac:

Nice try, I'm using a VPN.

Sir Gallagher · 09-07-2011 05:53PM

bacon? wrote: »

So now it's not only a random unprovoked attack from our local scumbags we have to worry about, we have this carry on.

Yet another reason not to go back.

I've been living in China for over a year and a half, and there's no scumbags here, it's great. You don't have to worry about getting smashed over the head with a bottle, for no reason when out on the town.

You wont be saying that when you get the electric chair for setting up a facebook account. :pac:

bacon? · 09-07-2011 05:57PM

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

You wont be saying that when you get the electric chair for setting up a facebook account. :pac:

I'd more likely just go missing, or have an accident.

PARKHEAD67 · 09-07-2011 06:17PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

Deport them all? Even if they are all Irish citizens? I do think it is fascinating that the terms "African" and "Irish" were used.

Irish citizens my arse.I bet your a vegan:D, and love to hug bushes in your spare time;).

Monty Burnz · 09-07-2011 06:22PM

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Irish citizens my arse.I bet your a vegan:D, and love to hug bushes in your spare time;).

It seems we have just two camps: the mad racists, and the PC vegans.

Maybe I'm over-simplifying things. Or maybe other people are. :pac:

Hank Scorpio · 09-07-2011 06:23PM

edit;;

Killer Wench · 09-07-2011 06:28PM

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Irish citizens my arse.I bet your a vegan:D, and love to hug bushes in your spare time;).

I love my beef damn near bloody and I have sensitive skin so negative on bush-hugging. Unless you mean my own which is a completely different subject.

twinytwo · 09-07-2011 07:27PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well, some of them...

But I think the point is that other societies don't have this sort of scumbaggery, or else it is far rarer there. We don't have to accept it.

i think if the guards were actually able to give these morons a slapping things wouldnt be nearly half as bad.

saatana · 09-07-2011 08:22PM

twinytwo i think if the guards were actually able to give these morons a slapping things wouldnt be nearly half as bad.

In other words, you see no role for courts of laws, fair trials, presumption of innocence, all of that namby-pamby stuff. The Guards can be judge, jury and executioner, and you probably wouldn't understand what the phrase quis custodiet iposos custodes means, either.

Probably a bit over your head, but let's try something simpler: does the word "Donegal" ring a bell?

Race hate gang in Temple Bar orgy of violence [mod note #1]

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