Race hate gang in Temple Bar orgy of violence [mod note #1]

pickarooney

If the gang was comprised of members from more than one African country would it not be legitimate and accurate to refer to it as an African gang?

the bolt

Mena wrote: »

Why aren't you in jail still, for the Omagh bombings? Because all Irish are IRA right? Right?

did you see the :rolleyes: ,dont matter

randylonghorn

profitius wrote: »

A foreign gang went around viciously attacking people in this country and we're supposed to shut up about it or be called racists and nazis. Don't anybody be fooled in thinking theres freedom of speech in this country.

No-one said you should shut up about this incident, or told you not to discuss it in a reasonable way.

It's comments like the following stupid generalisation (and some other not so blatant ones on this thread) which are way out of line.

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Just read this now:mad:, thats what we get for leaving these people in on the first place, its only going to get worse in years to come, time to deport all these Africans, we have enough problems of our own without importing african scum.

Let me re-write the story slightly and it may be clearer what I mean.

Headline: Cork thugs run amok in orgy of violence in Temple Bar after Cork-Dublin GAA match.

Cue this comment from a Dubliner:

Just read this now:mad:, thats what we get for leaving these people in on the first place, its only going to get worse in years to come, time to deport all these Corkonians, we have enough problems of our own without importing Cork scum.

Fair comment?

Or generalisation from the actions of a few to bash and label everyone from Cork?

And btw there is no absolute right to freedom of speech in Irish law. And there is no such right whatsoever on a privately owned website. So don't be fooled into thinking there is.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Nobody is disputing that these guys are scum. If it's possible to jail them and then deport them, I'm all for it.

So am I, assuming they're guilty. I would be whether they were African, Icelandic, Australian or American too. We have enough of our own troublemakers to deal with.

And I would in no way expect other countries to keep our exported troublemakers if they committed violent crimes in their jurisdictions.

KINGVictor

pickarooney wrote: »

If the gang was comprised of members from more than one African country would it not be legitimate and accurate to refer to it as an African gang?

I dont know but as far as I am aware, the nationalities of members of this 'gang' has not been made known yet, so they are been referred to as Africans because they are all black.

gbee

randylonghorn wrote: »

Headline: Cork thugs run amok in orgy of violence in Temple Bar after Cork-Dublin GAA match..

Ye, but the problem is we get the same reports from Cork, Limerick, Dublin, Galway, Kerry and it's not the same Cork supporter moving around to cause trouble.

voz es

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

That sounds mank!

I like them separate, but mixed?

Ah I dont really like the mixed. the 'special' is real nice though, its about giving the smithwicks a smoothness, and the head is there all the way down if your drinkin smithwicks and move pub find the smithwicks is poor ask them to slowly pour a bit of guinness into it. Half pressure or less pushing the draught tap away from the barperson.

If its done right you will have about an Inch of guinness settled at the bottom of your pint glass before you fill the smithwicks, (if its not done right you will have a nice bit of waste, but the nicest special by far )

Monty Burnz

Degsy wrote: »

No..they wouldnt report it...the same in England..Asian/Black on White crime goes unreported in the media but when Stephen Lawrence was murdered(most likely by blacks)

Total nonsense. I'd love to know what proof you have that he was murdered by black people, but you'd better get it to the Metropolitan Police PDQ before there's an awful miscarriage of justice...:rolleyes:

Two men are to stand trial accused of being part of a racist white gang that "targeted and killed" the black teenager Stephen Lawrence because of the colour of his skin, the appeal court has said.

The killing in 1993 in Eltham, south-east London, is one of the most high-profile unsolved murders in Britain.

The men charged are David Norris, who has never before been charged over the stabbing, and Gary Dobson, who stood trial previously and was found not guilty.

Dobson was acquitted of killing Lawrence, 18, after a private murder prosecution brought in 1996 by the parents of the talented youngster who dreamed of being an architect.

A new law established in 2003 abolished the longstanding ban on people being retried for the same crime after being found not guilty, if "compelling" new evidence came to light.

The appeal court agreed on Wednesday that new evidence was compelling enough to allow Dobson's acquittal to be quashed.

In effect, the appeal court, in a ruling by the lord chief justice of England and Wales, wiped the legal slate clean. This means Dobson and Norris will stand trial for the murder of Lawrence, in November at the Old Bailey in central London.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/18/stephen-lawrence-suspects-stand-trial

Degsy wrote: »

No..people like some of the pinkos on HERE deem it justifiable on the basis that "sure they were victims of racism and are only getting thier own back".

Could you do me a favour and link anybody saying that on this thread?

No?

Didn't think so.

Solnskaya

Fairly predictable and really not that unusual. It's the "novelty wearing off" factor. Take any ethnic group, be they Irish, Nigerian, French, Russian. So, an amount of them emmigrate to country x. For the first while, it's all brand new and strange, so everybody tows the line and is a model citizen. This wears off, and eventually, country x starts to feel familiar and normal, and then people revert to type. So, if we take it that 20% of Irish people are cnuts, 20% of Nigerians are, and so are 20% of Russians, when these 20% start to feel at home, they start to act the b0llox. Or, they start to act themselves, which is to say, cnuts. So, what we have here is a bunch of cnuts running amok. Where they are from is irrelevant, they are cnuts, and how things go from here is how Ireland deals with cnuts.

Belly_Dancer

i hear the KKK are running a full length version of Roots, but backwards so it will have a happy ending. :D

Yahew

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Good man. :rolleyes:

Edit: this is a trivial truth?

libertarians are all borderless loving fruitbats

*cough*bullsheet*cough*

Yeah, that especially. Of course accusing libertarians of being fruitbats is a subjective opinion, although one widely held, but essentially I was dealing with what the ideology was. Its fairly uncontroversial to say that libertarians are open border supporters/

Pompey Magnus

I wonder if the people who get so upset with the guilty people referred to in this people identified as being "African" as apparently this is too general a tag (even if technically true) and lump an entire continent together, do they get just as upset when it is claimed that Ireland should share the blame for the mess in certain parts of Africa due to "European" colonisation of the continent?

Perhaps future editions of history books should rewrite their chapters on "The European Scramble for Africa" as "The Primarily British, French, German and Belgian and to a lesser extent Spanish, Portuguese and Italian Scramble for Africa". Less snappy a title for a chapter I admit, but apparently it is wrong to generalise, even for the sake of convenience.

MungBean

Who gives a shít what they are or what people call em. They need to be taken out of society. If it was up to me I'd lock em all in a windowless cell without food or water and let em kill each other.

Monty Burnz

Yahew wrote: »

Yeah, that especially. Of course accusing libertarians of being fruitbats is a subjective opinion, although one widely held, but essentially I was dealing with what the ideology was. Its fairly uncontroversial to say that libertarians are open border supporters/

Ok, but I'd argue that 'libertarians' are an extremely broad and ill-defined group, and it's very dodgy at the best of times to state that 'all Xes are Y' when talking about people. I'm a libertarian (I believe in personal freedom) and I'm happy enough with borders.

Derfil

Stick a banana in a cage. Trap them and send em home.

KeithM89_old

Derfil wrote: »

Stick a banana in a cage. Trap them and send em home.

Banned

Monty Burnz

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I wonder if the people who get so upset with the guilty people referred to in this people identified as being "African" as apparently this is too general a tag (even if technically true) and lump an entire continent together, do they get just as upset when it is claimed that Ireland should share the blame for the mess in certain parts of Africa due to "European" colonisation of the continent?

Well, a person can only be from one country - Africa is a rather varied continent after all, with (I believe) more genetic variation than the rest of the world combined. I haven't had the pleasure of visiting it yet, but lumping Algerians (who could easily be confused with Italians in appearance) and Kalahari Bushmen into one homogenous lump might annoy some people. Not unlike the way that I sometimes get annoyed when Americans dismiss something as 'European', when it's specifically French, or German, or Polish.

Your comparison with the 'European' colonisation of Africa might stand up better if most of Western Europe wasn't involved. If people talked about the 'European' colonisation of Ireland, you'd have a point.

Herb Powell

"HEY GUYS, LETS START A RACIAL ATTACK CAMPAIGN AGAINST A HUGE RACIAL MAJORITY TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL"

Monty Burnz

Derfil wrote: »

Stick a banana in a cage. Trap them and send em home.

This from someone who was complaining about Scottish sectarianism? Where's the vomit smiley?

squod

[Huff]Good video wasted there. [/Huff]

Mr Trade In

Were these attackers living here long term/born here in Ireland and just a bunch of idiots in Temple Bar causing trouble or were they another example of the many dangerous criminals who waltz into this country with no proper background checks.

PK2008

I had been quite liberal about immigration up until now but...

It is quite obvious to me now that the actions of 5 or 6 people is a fair representation of an entire continent of people and I shall raise these views with my local TD...

Kudos, OP, kudos

mikemac

This gang of five better hope they get sent to the same prison so they can back each other up.

As they are in for a hammering from our own native criminals in the prisons.
I forget the name of the book and the author (think he wrote a book about cycling?) but it was about Mountjoy and Dublin prisoners sent to Cork got beatings and the same for Cork prisoners sent to Dublin.
In fact, troublemakers in Dublin were separated and sent to Cork as a way of dealing with them

So these five lads were going around looking for fights so they'll get plenty of goes and practice during their sentence

tommyboy2222

In fact around the time of the incident being reported here there were threads posted in relation to attacks and muggings by black African youths in the Templebar area which were promptly locked and/or deleted.

Why were these threads locked and/or deleted ?

Pompey Magnus

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Well, a person can only be from one country - Africa is a rather varied continent after all, with (I believe) more genetic variation than the rest of the world combined. I haven't had the pleasure of visiting it yet, but lumping Algerians (who could easily be confused with Italians in appearance) and Kalahari Bushmen into one homogenous lump might annoy some people.

Your comparison with the 'European' colonisation of Africa might stand up better if most of Western Europe wasn't involved. If people talked about the 'European' colonisation of Ireland, you'd have a point.

Europe consists of 50 countries, the vast majority of these having no former colonial empires, yet you think its okay to just lump a whole varied continent together with incredibly different cultures and histories and speak of the "European" colonisation of Africa?

Not all Europeans are residents of a former colonial power, but everyone born in Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Ethiopia etc is African. You have no problem making a generalisation which is not strictly speaking correct yet you have a problem making a generalisation which is undeniably correct.

Do you take issue with African-Americans who identify themselves as such? Are they being too general and should correctly identify themselves as Angolan-Americans, Sudanese-Americans, Kenyan-Americans? Do you correct them and explain how it is wrong of them to lump Algerian, Tunisian, Sudanse, Kenyan and Egyptian into one broad term?

ascanbe

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I wonder if the people who get so upset with the guilty people referred to in this people identified as being "African" as apparently this is too general a tag (even if technically true) and lump an entire continent together, do they get just as upset when it is claimed that Ireland should share the blame for the mess in certain parts of Africa due to "European" colonisation of the continent?

Perhaps future editions of history books should rewrite their chapters on "The European Scramble for Africa" as "The Primarily British, French, German and Belgian and to a lesser extent Spanish, Portuguese and Italian Scramble for Africa". Less snappy a title for a chapter I admit, but apparently it is wrong to generalise, even for the sake of convenience.

I'd certainly be irritated, to put it mildly, if Ireland, by dint of being part Europe, was blamed for/connected to the colonisation of Africa and the various atrocities connected with that.

OutlawPete

Thread needs an injection of love.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZtiJN6yiik

ascanbe

mikemac wrote: »

This gang of five better hope they get sent to the same prison so they can back each other up.

As they are in for a hammering from our own native criminals in the prisons.
I forget the name of the book and the author (think he wrote a book about cycling?) but it was about Mountjoy and Dublin prisoners sent to Cork got beatings and the same for Cork prisoners sent to Dublin.
In fact, troublemakers in Dublin were separated and sent to Cork as a way of dealing with them

So these five lads were going around looking for fights so they'll get plenty of goes and practice during their sentence

Will you still regard our 'native-born' prisoners as reprehenisble scum when, perhaps sometime in the future, they're administering beatings to these hypothetical prisoners that you seem to hold even greater contempt for, or will they ascend to being deemed worthy of your admiration for the brief time they're engaged in this violence?

Yakult

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmCL0gIhkLM

On a serious note, I hope those fùcking scum on the earth saddo's are punished hard and thought a lesson for it.

This is the **** I hate, unmotivated violent attacks. Black or white, makes no difference. Punishment should be served and not this "Irish" punishment **** that they will probably give them.

Send them back home and not waste our ****ing tax locking them up up for 4 years.

mikemac

ascanbe wrote: »

Will you still regard our 'native-born' prisoners as reprehenisble scum when, perhaps sometime in the future, they're administering beatings to these hypothetical prisoners that you seem to hold even greater contempt for, or will they ascend to being deemed worthy of your admiration for the brief time they're engaged in this violence?

I don't know why you're quoting me.

I never called anyone scum, I called them criminals as that is what anyone in prison is.

Where did I post I held Irish criminals in greater admiration than non nationals?

It's just generally when an outsider is introduced to a tough prison system, beatings happen. And by outsider it doesn't even have to be a different country, my examples were Dublin and Cork and you're posting "native-born".

Hey, I even posted they better hope the five are put together so they back each other up. But they will get hassle and abuse, prison is a rough place. Should have thought of that before handing out beatings of their own to the public

Pompey Magnus

ascanbe wrote: »

I'd certainly be irritated, to put it mildly, if Ireland, by dint of being part Europe, was blamed for/connected to the colonisation of Africa and the various atrocities connected with that.

Well that is what I am getting at, when I hear someone refer to European colonisation I have the cop-on to realise they are using the word "European" for convenience as most people don't want to give a full history and geography lesson when talking about the subject. I know they are usually referring to just specific countries within Europe. So too when the article in the OP refers to the culprits being "African", I have the cop on to know that the journalist wasn't implying Africa is one big border-less area where everyone is alike, its just a convenient title.

That said of course there are some people with agendas who try to hijack these terms and so they do use the term "African" to negatively tar all Africans with the same brush or on the other side who use the term "European" to make us feel in some way responsible for the wrongs of Imperial powers who also happened to be European even though we were actually victims of their expansion ourselves.