Fired for being Atheist (?)

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 09:27AM #1

I had a really strange experience last week, and not sure if I should be angry, or simply laugh at the whole thing. I'm living in Israel, and recently got a job as an au-pair for an American single mom who recently moved here with her 7 year old daughter. Things were going dandy, til one day the daughter started spouting all kinds of nonsense about Noah's ark and drawing pictures etc. She started quizzing me about my religious beliefs, and I said that I didn't believe in God. When she (eventually) managed to get over the shock (her mouth literally fell open) she started asking me why and where I thought people came from and who created the world. I told her that I believed in the scientific explanation- the big bang, evolution etc, and felt that the biblical account was a little far fetched. I took the story of Noah's ark story as an example and asked her- What do you think the meat-eating animals ate while on the ark if there was only two of every animal? She gave me a pissed off look and started saying something about picking fish out of the sea, but then got distracted by the tv and that was the end of that. Or so I thought.

The next day, I got a text message from her mother saying that I "made comments to her daughter which were grossly inappropriate and completely unacceptable" and that she "didn't feel this was a good fit for a working relationship". I'm just baffled- is it that she's afraid that I would interfere with the indoctrination or her child, or allow her to see things from a different perspective? In hindsight, perhaps it wasn't my place to discuss these things to begin with with someone else's child?

Confusement...!!

Rev Hellfire · 07-07-2011 09:35AM

Sefirah wrote: »

In hindsight, perhaps it wasn't my place to discuss these things to begin with with someone else's child?

You think :rolleyes:

MrStuffins · 07-07-2011 09:38AM

Sounds like it was YOU indoctrinating a 7 year old child when you should've been playing Hungry Hungry Hippos!

MrPudding · 07-07-2011 09:38AM

Whilst I probably agree with most of what you said, I also think it was probably inappropriate for you to tell the child these things.

We, and that is people in general, need to be careful about how we speak to other people's children. That said, this is a very difficult area and it is hard to know what to say. I think it is best to err on the side of caution and try not to say anything too far from what the kid "believes". This is hard, as it will likely mean intentionally lying to them. Bi it seems that most parents would prefer people lying to their children than telling them something outside their worldview.

MrP

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 09:38AM

I didn't mean to interfere, I just don't like the thought of lying to a kid- be it mine or someone else's

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 09:39AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Sounds like it was YOU indoctrinating a 7 year old child when you should've been playing Hungry Hungry Hippos!

I wasn't indoctrinating her, I was simply asking her a question and answering the ones she put to me- what she chooses to do with the answers was up to her

stargazer 68 · 07-07-2011 09:40AM

Sefirah wrote: »

I didn't mean to interfere, I just don't like the thought of lying to a kid- be it mine or someone else's

Lying in your opinion - not hers! You werent fired for being an atheist you were fired for overstepping the mark.

MrStuffins · 07-07-2011 09:40AM

Sefirah wrote: »

I wasn't indoctrinating her, I was simply asking her a question and answering the ones she put to me- what she chooses to do with the answers was up to her

Perhaps, but she's a 7 year old child. Just because she asked doesn't mean you should tell her.

"Excuse me, but when my daughter asks 'Where do babies come from?' could you refrain from drawing diagrams?"

MrPudding · 07-07-2011 09:40AM

Sefirah wrote: »

I wasn't indoctrinating her, I was simply asking her a question and answering the ones she put to me- what she chooses to do with the answers was up to her

She is 7. She doesn't choose what to do with information.

MrP

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 09:41AM

Dovies wrote: »

Lying in your opinion - not hers! You werent fired for being an atheist you were fired for overstepping the mark.

What if I said I was Jewish, and believed in all their philsophies? Had I spoken about this- no bother. It's the fact that what I believe wasn't in line with theirs which was the issue

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 09:43AM

MrPudding wrote: »

She is 7. She doesn't choose what to do with information.

MrP

But surely she should be given the option to hear differing opinions? It feels like living in a bubble here sometimes- especially with new immigrants- they create their own little Jewish world, and anything outside of that is simply not acceptable

seamus · 07-07-2011 09:43AM

I can see how it would seem reasonable at the time to innocently answer the child's questions, but for a start you're in Israel, and speaking with the child is quite simply, a part of your job.

Never mix business with religion or politics. It will not end well.

The next time a child asks what your beliefs are, educate the child that is not an appropriate question to ask, as everyone's beliefs are private and personal.

My suspicion here is that even if you said, "I don't believe in God", and didn't discuss it any further, the mother would probably still have let you go out of fear that you might eat her baby. The child probably came to the mother with simple questions about the religion and rather than answer those questions, she fires you for daring to stir up questions in her brain.

3DataModem · 07-07-2011 09:43AM

No it was the fact that you were compromising their parenting that got you fired.

If you told her Santa wasn't real would you expect to be fired?

Bloody Nipples · 07-07-2011 09:44AM

It's the equivalent of telling the kid Santa doesn't exist. It's the truth, but you can't say it to someone else's kid.

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 09:45AM

seamus wrote: »

The next time a child asks what your beliefs are, educate the child that is not an appropriate question to ask, as everyone's beliefs are private and personal.

Possibly a good idea....!! Luckily I didn't like the job anyway, so perhaps it turned out for the best- I was working 6am-8pm 5 days a week for the equivalent of 60 euros.

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 09:46AM

3DataModem wrote: »

No it was the fact that you were compromising their parenting that got you fired.

If you told her Santa wasn't real would you expect to be fired?

It's Israel- if she doesn't know Santa's not real, we have a problem lol. But I see your point- I just have found that since I got here, people are so hopelessly brainwashed, and now I see this kid going down the exact same road, and it's depressing

MrStuffins · 07-07-2011 09:47AM

Sefirah wrote: »

But surely she should be given the option to hear differing opinions? It feels like living in a bubble here sometimes- especially with new immigrants- they create their own little Jewish world, and anything outside of that is simply not acceptable

If I had a 7 year old and the Au Pair started trying to fill her head with her own religious agenda, you can be damned sure i wouldnt be happy!

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 09:50AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

If I had a 7 year old and the Au Pair started trying to fill her head with her own religious agenda, you can be damned sure i wouldnt be happy!

But I'm not filling her head- I'm just telling her my point of view. The same way if I had been a Christian, I would say what I believed

MrStuffins · 07-07-2011 09:55AM

Sefirah wrote: »

But I'm not filling her head- I'm just telling her my point of view. The same way if I had been a Christian, I would say what I believed

But it's a 7 year old girl. It's not your place to tell the girl this stuff. it's your place to play Buckaroo!

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 09:56AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

But it's a 7 year old girl. It's not your place to tell the girl this stuff. it's your place to play Buckaroo!

Really wished these games were actually available here - maybe we wouldn't have wandered on to the topic of religion then!

Rev Hellfire · 07-07-2011 09:58AM

Sefirah wrote: »

But I'm not filling her head- I'm just telling her my point of view. The same way if I had been a Christian, I would say what I believed

The point though is that even if you had been a christian and the mother a staunch atheist, it wouldn't have been your place to go against the teachings the parents had selected for her.

fatmammycat · 07-07-2011 10:01AM

You were totally out of line. My best friend is quite religious and her daughter recently made her HC and was filled with religious waffle, all of which I smiled at and nodded and said 'oh really?' to. You had no right to undermine the mother or daughter's religious belief in this case.

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 10:02AM

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

The point though is that even if you had been a christian and the mother a staunch atheist, it wouldn't have been your place to go against the teachings the parents had selected for her.

What I wonder is- is there an 'acceptable' level of discussion on this- as in, if she asked me what I believed, could I still say that I believed in no God, and leave it at that, or should the entire topic be avoided altogether?

07-07-2011 10:03AM

When a child asks what santa is bringing me for christmas I don't sit there and tell them there is no santa

It was seriously not your place to be telling these things to the child, I think it would have been best if you'd changed the subject entirely somehow

Dades · 07-07-2011 10:03AM

A bunch of off-topic posts have been deleted.
deravarra - this isn't the place for what you started. You have been warned.

smcgiff · 07-07-2011 10:03AM

Nah, you clearly over stepped the mark. You have a care of duty to the parents and child.

I suspect you knew it wasn't right to try to argue your religious beliefs with a child. I agree with the parent.

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 10:07AM

Lesson learned...!
Thanks for your input guys! Next time I'll distract them with something shiny and move on!

tallaghtmick · 07-07-2011 10:07AM

wow an american jewish woman in israel over reacts to an au pair she under pays.....must......not......stereotype

Rev Hellfire · 07-07-2011 10:08AM

Sefirah wrote: »

What I wonder is- is there an 'acceptable' level of discussion on this- as in, if she asked me what I believed, could I still say that I believed in no God, and leave it at that, or should the entire topic be avoided altogether?

I think if the topic is in anyway contentious and you are unaware of the parents feelings it is best avoided.

deman · 07-07-2011 10:10AM

Sefirah wrote: »

I'm just baffled

How can you be baffled? What you did was totally irresponsible. Whether or not your points are valid is not up for discussion. Your opinions mean nothing. How dare you try to confuse a young child that people trusted you to look after.

How about we retitle the thread "Fired for mentally abusing a child!"

Sefirah · 07-07-2011 10:10AM

tallaghtmick wrote: »

wow an american jewish woman in israel over reacts to an au pair she under pays.....must......not......stereotype

Yeah, on a side note- the pay situation was ridiculous, and not only was the stated pay crap, but she'd only give me a fraction of it before making up some excuse about problems with ATMs and whatnot. And she never left any food in the house for her kid, so I'd have to drag her daughter out of bed to go to the shop in the morning to buy something to eat for breakfast- with my own money, of course :S

Fired for being Atheist (?)

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