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Greece

2

Comments

  • #32
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    squod wrote: »
    Well, yes they did. M. Noonan told us what he was going to do pre-election. The population were forewarned of the impending fraud and endorsed it anyway.
    Eh I thought you were talking about the bank guarantee. FG made a lot of promises, almost none of which they have since delivered on or are apparently planning to.
    squod wrote: »
    My offensive on the apologists continues. They new full well what they were doing!
    I doubt it. Lenihan was bumrushed by a few high flying bankers one dark night. Still vastly stupid but probably not with malice aforethought.
    squod wrote: »
    There is no evidence to the contrary AFAIK. The governments advisors told them not to guarantee Anglo's debts. Even J. Burton has said recently how she thought the idea was utter lunacy.
    Moany Joany wasn't in government at the time, or acting in an advisory capacity. Which advisors told them not to? Because it sure as hell wasn't the same people who were tasked with regulating the banks.


  • #33
    DERICKOO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 593 ✭✭✭DERICKOO


    sotoole1 wrote: »
    The more the Greeks protest,riot and destroy the little economy they still have.
    The more it will cost everyone else .
    The reality is a new bailout for Greece next week is a default,and is only going to cost Ireland and the rest of the member states. Also this will change all budget plans throughout Europe who avail of the single currency.
    The next bailout for them will be the third and that will be around the turn of 2012. When this happens France and Germany will contract with the collapse of some (6) of its main banks,and at this point it will be a coin toss for every single currency state to decide weather to continue with the Euro.
    Before this happens France and Germany will have already decided their own future's collectively.


    There's an report that's rather cryptic, but it basically says that a compromise between Germany and the ECB was currently off the table. We're not sure what to make of it. It's just out there.
    Then there's a saying that the next slug of cash to Greece may only be half as big as previously planned, with the goal that the country avoids an imminent default, with the rest of the cash coming when actual spending cuts are passed.
    G7 Finance Ministers are holding an emergency meeting on Greece over the phone tonight!


  • #34
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    Amhran Nua wrote: »


    I doubt it. Lenihan was bumrushed by a few high flying bankers one dark night.

    One ? One dark night? How many times did they vote on the banking guarantees.
    Amhran Nua wrote: »

    Still vastly stupid but probably not with malice aforethought.

    There's no evidence to support that statement. None! No fool in his right mind woulda guaranteed Anglo. He was advised against it! As people keep telling you, they had weeks if not months to work out an appropriate plan. He chose to guarantee some poxy little bank with massive debts for no good reason.


  • #35
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    squod wrote: »
    One ? One dark night?
    Pretty much. Look it up, as bizarre as it sounds, thats exactly how the ball got rolling. And I'd love to know what went on at that meeting.
    squod wrote: »
    There's no evidence to support that statement. None! No fool in his right mind woulda guaranteed Anglo. He was advised against it! As people keep telling you, they had weeks if not months to work out an appropriate plan. He chose to guarantee some poxy little bank with massive debts for no good reason.
    Okay, so you're telling me that the admittedly incompetent late Brian Lenihan, who went to his deathbed (a week or so ago) swearing his hand was forced at every step, scuppered the country... because?

    FF were and are corrupt buffoons who shouldn't be let near running a corner shop never mind a country, but I just don't see the angle in them destroying the place on purpose.


  • #36
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    Amhran Nua wrote: »

    FF were and are corrupt buffoons who shouldn't be let near running a corner shop never mind a country, but I just don't see the angle in them destroying the place on purpose.

    I'm not bluddy Jacques Clouseau. I have no idea as to why it happened. That's the information we have to go on, it's correct and any conclusions should be drawn by a judge IMO.


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  • #37
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVXi-F6vZ-Q

    Done unilaterally without consulting the EU
    .

    The guarantees were a temporary measure to let the banks settle their debts. That never happened.


  • #38
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    squod wrote: »
    The guarantees were a temporary measure to let the banks settle their debts. That never happened.
    You're starting to lose coherency a bit here. "Done unilaterally without consulting the EU" is what I have been saying, in fact what I said was "Lenihan was bumrushed by a few high flying bankers one dark night". The only possible outcome of such a guarantee was complete disaster, but I don't think that FF were intelligent enough to grasp that, having bought into their own press of being cute hoors. Again, I just don't see how they would set out to deliberately destroy the country.

    And believe me, I'm no apologist.


  • #39
    iamstop
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 13,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭iamstop


    thread went off topic. Anyway, there have been more riots in Greece and really not as much reporting of it as I think it warrants.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIu66kft9nM

    https://open.spotify.com/album/69JKwCcZGdLqX4Upj3DwP7



  • #40
    wild_cat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    Russia today is always great for a bit of riot porn!


  • #41
    SnowY32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭SnowY32


    Solidarity with Greece! Some brave souls out in Athens today!


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  • #42
    old_aussie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    Greece,the whole country's gone on strike.

    FFS, the EU should cut Greece loose.

    A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.


  • #43
    SnowY32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭SnowY32


    old_aussie wrote: »
    Greece,the whole country's gone on strike.

    FFS, the EU should cut Greece loose.

    A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.



    They should cut us loose so too ya???


  • #44
    SnowY32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭SnowY32


    what the fcuk are the cops doing?????


  • #45
    sob1467
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭sob1467


    Anyone else currently watching BBC News Channel. Crazy


  • #46
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭reprazant


    SnowY32 wrote: »
    They should cut us loose so too ya???

    If we were to make no attempt at paying back money we borrowed, then yes they should.

    In fact, rather then attempting to save money so that it can be payed back, they are trashing their cities. They were happy to not pay taxes and to allow their governments to lie and borrow, now that that lax attitude has come back to haunt them, they don't like where it has left them.


  • #47
    iamstop
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 13,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭iamstop


    Live link on BBC
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13954989

    https://open.spotify.com/album/69JKwCcZGdLqX4Upj3DwP7



  • #48
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Greece is like a country of Richard Boyd-Barretts. They seem to be in denial that they have debt problems and dont want to address them. They should be cut loose from the EU and let them turn themselves into a 3rd world country. At least we are trying to address our financial issues. Greece just want to find a couple hundred billion under the sofa and keep living their lifestyle. Complete loons that will drag the rest of us down.


  • #49
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,385 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Its funny how nobody in the EU was criticizing Greece five years ago.


  • #50
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭reprazant


    Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »
    Its funny how nobody in the EU was criticizing Greece five years ago.

    You mean when they were lying about their deficits, growth forecasts, etc and pretending everything was grand?


  • #51
    marty1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭marty1985


    Dangerous Man wrote: »
    Oh... Greece. I was about to burst into song.

    They got bills / They're multiplyin' / And they're losing control...


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  • #52
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    marty1985 wrote: »
    They got bills / They're multiplyin' / And they're losing control...

    Euro the one we want, ooh ooh ooh.





    :o


  • #53
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    keithob wrote: »
    Capitalsim doesnt work for the working class :)
    Communism doesn't do them any favours either. Fascism seems to do OK for a while mind.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #54
    decisions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭decisions


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Fascism seems to do OK for a while mind.
    But we all know how that ends.


  • #55
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭reprazant


    keithob wrote: »
    In denial bout debts.... nope Richard.. they are pretty god damn sure of their debt its just there also pretty damn sure that they wont be conned like the clowns in the banana irish so called ''republic''

    that debt will never be repaid - seen reports online there ive grown women and men in the middle of full scale protest / riots.

    So they know they have debits, but they are not going to get conned and they way that they are not getting conned is refusing to pay back the money the owe?

    If they didn't want to have to pay it back, they shouldn't have borrowed it in the first place. Running from your responsibilities is pretty cowardly.


  • #56
    RussellTuring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 866 ✭✭✭RussellTuring


    Einhard wrote: »
    No, they're not. Seriously, WTF is up with our fetishisation of riots and disorder? Now, perhaps the Irish would be riot to order considering that most of the debt we're being saddled with is private losses, but the situation in Greece is entirely different. It's a bloody basket case of a country, and the Greeks are to fiscal recklessness as the Brazilians are to soccer. The black economy in the country is the largest in Europe, and tax fiddling is seen almost as a national pastime. Drive into a major petrol station along the motorway, and chances are you won't be able to pay electronically, and the "register" will consist of a a box. Walk into a doctor, a vet, or even a hospital, and you can expect to pay cash in hand in many cases. As part of the recent government crackdown, which only barely scrapes the surface, they surveyed Athens from the air in order to ascertain how many were avoiding a particular swimming pool tax. About 400 were registered for tax purposes- of almost 17 000.

    I would mostly agree with this except to say that I probably wouldn't pay the swimming pool tax either.
    So spare me this sh!te about the heroic Greeks. They're not "sticking it to the man", or protesting unfair capitalism through their riots- they're rioting because they don't want to pay back the money borrowed to fund their lifestyle. They borrowed money, and now refuse to pay up. Remember the Athen's Olympics? Was that forced on the Greeks by the IMF of the World Bank or the ECB? Were they forced to borrow the billions to fund that white elephant? They willingly took on the debt, and now refuse to even attempt to pay it back. That's not noble or commendable- that's the behaviour of the fiscally reckless and the irresponsible.

    I think they're probably unhappy about the fact that once the boom times are over, it's always the poor who get hit hardest while the rich are relatively sheltered. It doesn't excuse looting or anything like that but the Greek police aren't exactly angels either.
    If you lent money to your neighbour in good faith, and he squandered it, before smashing the street when you asked for it back, would you be so supportive? I doubt it. So why the collective hard on for the Greeks?

    The government also lied about the state of the country's finances. It probably wouldn't have gotten so bad had this not been the case.


  • #57
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    keithob wrote: »
    running from your responsibilities is cowardly.... welcome to the real world where the rich dont give a fiddlers bout the lower class..

    this is as much about keeping control of us the lower class and as it is money....

    you get a loan you pay it back correct... now you tell me how that work out in the cases of anglo etc .......

    the govt is responsbile... and in this case the eu wants to be the big mamma in fixing all the problems then clear the debt and then get the shop in order...

    Your attitute is just like the loons in Greece. You just want to blame rather than trying to fix things. When you are in a mess in any situation in life, you should try and find ways to get out of it rather than just sit around moaning about how you got into it and who's fault it is.

    The fact is Greece are in a financial mess. Blaming people, going on strike and wrecking the place isnt going to solve a thing. Its just moronic. Austerity measures will help their debt crisis.


  • #58
    marty1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭marty1985


    They've been fumbling in the Greece-y till.


  • #59
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭reprazant


    Its always somebody elses fault.

    I will be curious to see how the Greeks feel about these austerity measures if they do refuse to take them and get thrown out of the Euro. Then they will have to default and with nobody to offer them any money at all, where will the money for pensions, public services, etc come from?

    They will have nothing.


  • #60
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    reprazant wrote: »
    Its always somebody elses fault.

    I will be curious to see how the Greeks feel about these austerity measures if they do refuse to take them and get thrown out of the Euro. Then they will have to default and with nobody to offer them any money at all, where will the money for pensions, public services, etc come from?

    They will have nothing.

    Ah but what they do have is

    The Worlds BIGGEST GREEK FLAG


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  • #61
    wild_cat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    They did event the word anarchy after all.


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