Greece

iamstop

Not a lot in the media about the riots and protests. I know there is some but I don't think it is getting the attention it deserves considering how related what is going on there is to Ireland's own loans and debt.

http://youtu.be/whH8xpTOidk

What you think?

BlueBaron

Fecking Greeks.....They invented Gayness!!!

Dangerous Man

Oh... Greece. I was about to burst into song.

Kojak

If the Greeks sell crete to the Germans, then they'll probably have 1/2 the debt gone straight away.

Sure didn't Germany want to buy Greece's beaches a few months back? WTF - the Greeks are right to riot.

digme

Kojak wrote: »

If the Greeks sell crete to the Germans, then they'll probably have 1/2 the debt gone straight away.

Sure didn't Germany want to buy Greece's beaches a few months back? WTF - the Greeks are right to riot.

maybe the germans should give greece back it's gold.

Lapin

digme wrote: »

maybe the germans should give greece back it's gold.

And the Brits should give them their marbles back.


:pac:

digme

what marbles

Turpentine

iamstop wrote: »

Not a lot in the media about the riots and protests. I know there is some but I don't think it is getting the attention it deserves considering how related what is going on there is to Ireland's own loans and debt.

http://youtu.be/whH8xpTOidk

What you think?

Jesus, it looks mental over there. The five armed police around one guy looks somewhat excessive. You'd have to wonder what's in/what do they think is in that bum-bag.

Lapin

digme wrote: »

what marbles

These marbles.

Turpentine

digme wrote: »

what marbles

I assume s/he's either talking about ancient statues or sanity.

Or was that a compliment towards the protestors: "What marbles!!!!"

Edit:

Lapin wrote: »

These marbles.

Those marbles ^

Einhard

Kojak wrote: »

Sure didn't Germany want to buy Greece's beaches a few months back? WTF - the Greeks are right to riot.

No, they're not. Seriously, WTF is up with our fetishisation of riots and disorder? Now, perhaps the Irish would be riot to order considering that most of the debt we're being saddled with is private losses, but the situation in Greece is entirely different. It's a bloody basket case of a country, and the Greeks are to fiscal recklessness as the Brazilians are to soccer. The black economy in the country is the largest in Europe, and tax fiddling is seen almost as a national pastime. Drive into a major petrol station along the motorway, and chances are you won't be able to pay electronically, and the "register" will consist of a a box. Walk into a doctor, a vet, or even a hospital, and you can expect to pay cash in hand in many cases. As part of the recent government crackdown, which only barely scrapes the surface, they surveyed Athens from the air in order to ascertain how many were avoiding a particular swimming pool tax. About 400 were registered for tax purposes- of almost 17 000.

So spare me this sh!te about the heroic Greeks. They're not "sticking it to the man", or protesting unfair capitalism through their riots- they're rioting because they don't want to pay back the money borrowed to fund their lifestyle. They borrowed money, and now refuse to pay up. Remember the Athen's Olympics? Was that forced on the Greeks by the IMF of the World Bank or the ECB? Were they forced to borrow the billions to fund that white elephant? They willingly took on the debt, and now refuse to even attempt to pay it back. That's not noble or commendable- that's the behaviour of the fiscally reckless and the irresponsible.

If you lent money to your neighbour in good faith, and he squandered it, before smashing the street when you asked for it back, would you be so supportive? I doubt it. So why the collective hard on for the Greeks?

orourkeda

Kojak wrote: »

If the Greeks sell crete to the Germans, then they'll probably have 1/2 the debt gone straight away.

Sure didn't Germany want to buy Greece's beaches a few months back? WTF - the Greeks are right to riot.

Why and what does it achieve?

orourkeda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A04eIty3to

Proper protest

iamstop

My original post and point was about the fact that what is going on in Greece atm is being very under reported. We heard FAR more about the middle eastern protests in Egypt, Bahrain, Lybia etc.

Is it a case of the media not wanting the news and therefore ideas and acceptance of this kind of protest to spread as it did in the middle east?

squod

Einhard wrote: »

........ perhaps the Irish would be riot to order considering that most of the debt we're being saddled with is private losses, but the situation in Greece is entirely different.

People here voted to take on that debt in the last general election. In fairness you can't argue with democracy.

Einhard wrote: »

If you lent money to your neighbour in good faith, and he squandered it, before smashing the street when you asked for it back, would you be so supportive? I doubt it.

It's possible that like ourselves people keep voting for a bunch of cnuts to run the country. I don't blame them for being upset if that's the case. Remember we are still squandering everything we were lent by Europe. Poxy little banks like IL&P getting bailed for billions when they're only worth a few million. Paying government cronies six figure salaries etc..

DominoDub

In Greece every Dog on the Street Protests !

Ref:
Kanellos the Greek protest dog
A dog that has been seen at nearly every demonstration in Athens over the last two years has turned up again during the recent protests against new austerity measures

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2010/may/06/greece-protest

ItsAWindUp

Oh yes, those fine brave Greek revolutionaries: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/05/2891441.htm

Slightly over-romanticised methinks.

Einhard

squod wrote: »

People here voted to take on that debt in the last general election. In fairness you can't argue with democracy.

Bollix to that! Of course I can argue against democracy. I argued against FF for the past ten years, but fat lot of good it did me!

That's besude the point though, because protests of a tiny minority of an electorare is not a manifestation of the popular, democratic will. Seriously, that shouldn't even need to be pointed out. There were emassive protests in Serbia following the arrest of Ratko Mladic- I'm pretty sure you weren't on here clamouring for his release, or criticising his arrest because "you can't argue with democracy".

It's possible that like ourselves people keep voting for a bunch of cnuts to run the country. I don't blame them for being upset if that's the case.

You don't blame them for voting in the cnuts? Am I missing something there?

Remember we are still squandering everything we were lent by Europe. Poxy little banks like IL&P getting bailed for billions when they're only worth a few million. Paying government cronies six figure salaries etc..

As I sais, the situations in Ireland and Greece are completely different. If anyone had legitimare right to protest, it would be the Irish, who are shouldering private losses. The Greeks and the Spanish protestors on the other hand, are refusing to pay back theur own debts. And being lionised for it.

Mr Benevolent

If Greece is allowed default, we'll default. Simple enough. Only difference is that collectively we're pussies compared to the Greeks.

Zebra3

Einhard wrote: »

It's a bloody basket case of a country, and the Greeks are to fiscal recklessness as the Brazilians are to soccer.

Ya wha' now?

drdeadlift

DominoDub wrote: »

In Greece every Dog on the Street Protests !

Ref:
Kanellos the Greek protest dog
A dog that has been seen at nearly every demonstration in Athens over the last two years has turned up again during the recent protests against new austerity measures

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2010/may/06/greece-protest

He was in the op,23 secs in? hes like a reincarnated person

Einhard

Zebra3 wrote: »

Ya wha' now?

Masters at it!;)

dsmythy

Greeks riot, and they get frucked.

Irish don't riot, and they get frucked.

Sections of Athen's business and shopping districts are shut down day after day. The Irish ones continue trading.

reprazant

Confab wrote: »

If Greece is allowed default, we'll default. Simple enough. Only difference is that collectively we're pussies compared to the Greeks.

Why don't you go out and orgainse a protest? And then start a riot while you are there?

All this moaning from people on here that nobody is protesting. Go start a protest then instead of sitting on your arse moaning that nobody is doing it for you.

DominoDub

http://i.imgur.com/BDPvF.jpg

sotoole1

BlueBaron wrote: »

Fecking Greeks.....They invented Gayness!!!

You could be onto something there. Was there in 1999 in crete before it got popular and expensive. I ve never seen so many men holding hands,I thought I landed in the wrong country.
Anyway at this stage Greece is the Anglo of Europe . We will keep feeding them money and the fact is there no possible way they can pay it back.
If France and Germany think they can keep bailing them out to cover there own banks from implosion, using the rest of Europe as a backbone. They are taking the P**S just like the Greeks since the 90's.

Amhran Nua

squod wrote: »

People here voted to take on that debt in the last general election.

No, they didn't. Some people voted for FF, without knowing the insanity they were about to inflict on the country. Its doubtful FF knew what they were doing at the time. If we had a recall referendum mechanism, I'd say its likely that the boys from the Galway tent would have been hauled out of office by the ear. But we don't, so they weren't.

Besides its not like other countries haven't made bad voting decisions, *cough Germany cough*.

RebelSniper

The Greeks are in a really slippery situation...

sotoole1

The more the Greeks protest,riot and destroy the little economy they still have.
The more it will cost everyone else .
The reality is a new bailout for Greece next week is a default,and is only going to cost Ireland and the rest of the member states. Also this will change all budget plans throughout Europe who avail of the single currency.
The next bailout for them will be the third and that will be around the turn of 2012. When this happens France and Germany will contract with the collapse of some (6) of its main banks,and at this point it will be a coin toss for every single currency state to decide weather to continue with the Euro.
Before this happens France and Germany will have already decided their own future's collectively.

ascanbe

sotoole1 wrote: »

You could be onto something there. Was there in 1999 in crete before it got popular and expensive. I ve never seen so many men holding hands,I thought I landed in the wrong country.
Anyway at this stage Greece is the Anglo of Europe . We will keep feeding them money and the fact is there no possible way they can pay it back.
If France and Germany think they can keep bailing them out to cover there own banks from implosion, using the rest of Europe as a backbone. They are taking the P**S just like the Greeks since the 90's.

Meant to go to Lesbos, did you?

squod

Einhard wrote: »

You don't blame them for voting in the cnuts? Am I missing something there?
.

You know what I mean. I can't blame the protesters for feeling pissed off that people keep voting for cnuts.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

No, they didn't.

Well, yes they did. M. Noonan told us what he was going to do pre-election. The population were forewarned of the impending fraud and endorsed it anyway.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Its doubtful FF knew what they were doing at the time.

My offensive on the apologists continues. They new full well what they were doing!

There is no evidence to the contrary AFAIK. The governments advisors told them not to guarantee Anglo's debts. Even J. Burton has said recently how she thought the idea was utter lunacy.

Amhran Nua

squod wrote: »

Well, yes they did. M. Noonan told us what he was going to do pre-election. The population were forewarned of the impending fraud and endorsed it anyway.

Eh I thought you were talking about the bank guarantee. FG made a lot of promises, almost none of which they have since delivered on or are apparently planning to.

squod wrote: »

My offensive on the apologists continues. They new full well what they were doing!

I doubt it. Lenihan was bumrushed by a few high flying bankers one dark night. Still vastly stupid but probably not with malice aforethought.

squod wrote: »

There is no evidence to the contrary AFAIK. The governments advisors told them not to guarantee Anglo's debts. Even J. Burton has said recently how she thought the idea was utter lunacy.

Moany Joany wasn't in government at the time, or acting in an advisory capacity. Which advisors told them not to? Because it sure as hell wasn't the same people who were tasked with regulating the banks.

DERICKOO

sotoole1 wrote: »

The more the Greeks protest,riot and destroy the little economy they still have.
The more it will cost everyone else .
The reality is a new bailout for Greece next week is a default,and is only going to cost Ireland and the rest of the member states. Also this will change all budget plans throughout Europe who avail of the single currency.
The next bailout for them will be the third and that will be around the turn of 2012. When this happens France and Germany will contract with the collapse of some (6) of its main banks,and at this point it will be a coin toss for every single currency state to decide weather to continue with the Euro.
Before this happens France and Germany will have already decided their own future's collectively.

There's an report that's rather cryptic, but it basically says that a compromise between Germany and the ECB was currently off the table. We're not sure what to make of it. It's just out there.
Then there's a saying that the next slug of cash to Greece may only be half as big as previously planned, with the goal that the country avoids an imminent default, with the rest of the cash coming when actual spending cuts are passed.
G7 Finance Ministers are holding an emergency meeting on Greece over the phone tonight!

squod

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I doubt it. Lenihan was bumrushed by a few high flying bankers one dark night.

One ? One dark night? How many times did they vote on the banking guarantees.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Still vastly stupid but probably not with malice aforethought.

There's no evidence to support that statement. None! No fool in his right mind woulda guaranteed Anglo. He was advised against it! As people keep telling you, they had weeks if not months to work out an appropriate plan. He chose to guarantee some poxy little bank with massive debts for no good reason.

Amhran Nua

squod wrote: »

One ? One dark night?

Pretty much. Look it up, as bizarre as it sounds, thats exactly how the ball got rolling. And I'd love to know what went on at that meeting.

squod wrote: »

There's no evidence to support that statement. None! No fool in his right mind woulda guaranteed Anglo. He was advised against it! As people keep telling you, they had weeks if not months to work out an appropriate plan. He chose to guarantee some poxy little bank with massive debts for no good reason.

Okay, so you're telling me that the admittedly incompetent late Brian Lenihan, who went to his deathbed (a week or so ago) swearing his hand was forced at every step, scuppered the country... because?

FF were and are corrupt buffoons who shouldn't be let near running a corner shop never mind a country, but I just don't see the angle in them destroying the place on purpose.

squod

Amhran Nua wrote: »

FF were and are corrupt buffoons who shouldn't be let near running a corner shop never mind a country, but I just don't see the angle in them destroying the place on purpose.

I'm not bluddy Jacques Clouseau. I have no idea as to why it happened. That's the information we have to go on, it's correct and any conclusions should be drawn by a judge IMO.

squod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVXi-F6vZ-Q

Done unilaterally without consulting the EU

.

The guarantees were a temporary measure to let the banks settle their debts. That never happened.

Amhran Nua

squod wrote: »

The guarantees were a temporary measure to let the banks settle their debts. That never happened.

You're starting to lose coherency a bit here. "Done unilaterally without consulting the EU" is what I have been saying, in fact what I said was "Lenihan was bumrushed by a few high flying bankers one dark night". The only possible outcome of such a guarantee was complete disaster, but I don't think that FF were intelligent enough to grasp that, having bought into their own press of being cute hoors. Again, I just don't see how they would set out to deliberately destroy the country.

And believe me, I'm no apologist.

iamstop

thread went off topic. Anyway, there have been more riots in Greece and really not as much reporting of it as I think it warrants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIu66kft9nM

wild_cat

Russia today is always great for a bit of riot porn!

SnowY32

Solidarity with Greece! Some brave souls out in Athens today!

old_aussie

Greece,the whole country's gone on strike.

FFS, the EU should cut Greece loose.

A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

SnowY32

old_aussie wrote: »

Greece,the whole country's gone on strike.

FFS, the EU should cut Greece loose.

A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

They should cut us loose so too ya???

SnowY32

what the fcuk are the cops doing?????

sob1467

Anyone else currently watching BBC News Channel. Crazy

reprazant

SnowY32 wrote: »

They should cut us loose so too ya???

If we were to make no attempt at paying back money we borrowed, then yes they should.

In fact, rather then attempting to save money so that it can be payed back, they are trashing their cities. They were happy to not pay taxes and to allow their governments to lie and borrow, now that that lax attitude has come back to haunt them, they don't like where it has left them.

iamstop

Live link on BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13954989

Richard Hillman

Greece is like a country of Richard Boyd-Barretts. They seem to be in denial that they have debt problems and dont want to address them. They should be cut loose from the EU and let them turn themselves into a 3rd world country. At least we are trying to address our financial issues. Greece just want to find a couple hundred billion under the sofa and keep living their lifestyle. Complete loons that will drag the rest of us down.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Its funny how nobody in the EU was criticizing Greece five years ago.

reprazant

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Its funny how nobody in the EU was criticizing Greece five years ago.

You mean when they were lying about their deficits, growth forecasts, etc and pretending everything was grand?

marty1985

Dangerous Man wrote: »

Oh... Greece. I was about to burst into song.

They got bills / They're multiplyin' / And they're losing control...