Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2009-2011

flahavaj · 26-06-2011 06:49PM

Londo will probably be favourites to beat us but its still probably the best draw we could've gotten and it gives us a fighting chance of reaching the next round.

KevIRL · 26-06-2011 07:01PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

Would have been nice to have someone in Fraher Field.

London wont be easy to beat. They have gotten very strong in the last year or two with the amount of people that has moved across there.

Well considering their showing against Mayo and then beating Fermanagh we shouldnt be going there complacent like a couple of years ago. The way they did the draw was idiotic, it was clear that the teams out of bowl one had a much better chance of getting home advantage simply cause they were placed into bowl 3 buy the guy who then picked them out - ie they were the ones nearer to him.

6 out of the 8 home teams were from bowl 1

Deise Tom · 26-06-2011 08:23PM

KevIRL wrote: »

Well considering their showing against Mayo and then beating Fermanagh we shouldnt be going there complacent like a couple of years ago. The way they did the draw was idiotic, it was clear that the teams out of bowl one had a much better chance of getting home advantage simply cause they were placed into bowl 3 buy the guy who then picked them out - ie they were the ones nearer to him.

6 out of the 8 home teams were from bowl 1

Did not see the draws, was listening to Damien Lawlors show at the time. The draws in the GAA are fixed with a very long time. There is no doubt about it. You will get some that will say they are not. If they are not, i suggest that those performing them should do the lotto more often.

Even locally you have to have doubts. How many times in the past for the draws for the semi finals of the senior hurling have Mount Sion and Ballygunner avoided each other. I know they met was it two years ago, but it was the years prior to this i am referring to. When they were numbers 1 and 2 in the rankings in the county they seldom if ever met before a county final.

flahavaj · 26-06-2011 08:44PM

What always makes me laugh is that they never mix the balls up in the drum when they're making the draw in GAA. Basically they're just lying there and it wouldn't be that hard to fix if you were so inclined. Anytime a soccer draw is on they always make the point of giving them a shuffle (har har!), or telling the lads who are making the draw to give them a shuffle before the draw the next name out.

deiseach · 26-06-2011 09:00PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

Did not see the draws, was listening to Damien Lawlors show at the time. The draws in the GAA are fixed with a very long time. There is no doubt about it. You will get some that will say they are not. If they are not, i suggest that those performing them should do the lotto more often.

So everyone who has ever conducted the draw has been told that they have to rig it and none of them has ever expressed any moral distaste about the notion? If people are so convinced the draws are rigged then why does no one ever seem capable of accurately predicting the outcome beforehand, instead choosing to say it was obviously rigged AFTER the fact?

KevIRL · 26-06-2011 09:14PM

I dont think the draw was rigged, just badly organised

Bowl 1 contains cylinders of the teams who won round 1 of the qualifiers, bowl 2 contains cylinders of the teams who are entering qualifiers at round 2. A guy picks out a cylinder from bowl 1 and places it in bowl 3, different guy then does the same from bowl 2. The first guy then picks out one of the 2 cylinders from bowl 3 and this is the home team, just by being placed into bowl 3 at the side of the guy picking out the home teams meant teams from bowl had a bigger chance of home advantage and they got home advantage for 6 out of the 8 ties

deiseach · 26-06-2011 09:19PM

KevIRL wrote: »

I dont think the draw was rigged, just badly organised

Bowl 1 contains cylinders of the teams who won round 1 of the qualifiers, bowl 2 contains cylinders of the teams who are entering qualifiers at round 2. A guy picks out a cylinder from bowl 1 and places it in bowl 3, different guy then does the same from bowl 2. The first guy then picks out one of the 2 cylinders from bowl 3 and this is the home team, just by being placed into bowl 3 at the side of the guy picking out the home teams meant teams from bowl had a bigger chance of home advantage and they got home advantage for 6 out of the 8 ties

Hang on, if the cylinder on the left (as we watched it on the telly) was always going to be picked out by the guy on the left, then how did he end up picking two from the right? 6 out of 8 simply isn't a statistically significant sample. It'd be like saying that the roulette wheel at Vegas falling on red 6 times out of 8 is a sign that there's something fishy

flahavaj · 26-06-2011 09:42PM

The least they could do would be to at least shuffle the two balls about in cylinder 3. I'm sure the draws aren't rigged (you'd never beable to keep it quiet for a start) but the ridiculous ways they're carried out leave the GAA open to people asking questions.

Deise Tom · 26-06-2011 09:54PM

deiseach wrote: »

So everyone who has ever conducted the draw has been told that they have to rig it and none of them has ever expressed any moral distaste about the notion? If people are so convinced the draws are rigged then why does no one ever seem capable of accurately predicting the outcome beforehand, instead choosing to say it was obviously rigged AFTER the fact?

If they are not rigged, why dont they put the little drums into trumbol thing and give it a good spin before drawing them out instead of the little shuffle where they hardly move, or get something like the lotto machine, put numbers balls in it and announce before hand what county is what number, and draw them out.

How many years in a row has Cork and Tipperary played now in the first round of Munster. How come it was Justin V Davy in 2009 and it was been talked up from when the draw was made. How many years in a row did Tipperary and Clare get drawn together in Munster a few years back.

deiseach · 26-06-2011 09:57PM

Tom, there's a simple way to prove the draw is rigged. Predict the outcome in advance. If it's so obvious it should be a doddle

PTH2009 · 26-06-2011 09:58PM

will the centra ticket van be around the city in the next 2 weeks. ???

tickets for the final are crap on ticketmaster and tickets.ie and im not a part of a gaa club.

What sort of crowd do you think will turn up id say about 25000. Clare supporters might travel in big numbers being in the minor final and we all know how Waterfords support has weakend in the last few years while Tipperarys support has some what increased

Deise Tom · 26-06-2011 09:59PM

deiseach wrote: »

Tom, there's a simple way to prove the draw is rigged. Predict the outcome in advance. If it's so obvious it should be a doddle

Cork and Tipp will be drawn against each other in the first round of Munster next year, if not it will be the semi final.

Deise Tom · 26-06-2011 10:02PM

flahavaj wrote: »

The least they could do would be to at least shuffle the two balls about in cylinder 3. I'm sure the draws aren't rigged (you'd never beable to keep it quiet for a start) but the ridiculous ways they're carried out leave the GAA open to people asking questions.

If you got your hands on the draws for the past 10 or 15 years, i am sure you would find a fair few of the same two counties compeating at the same stage of the competition on a number of occasions.

deiseach · 26-06-2011 10:05PM

I was looking back through the records and we played Tipperary at Minor level three years running between 1951 and 1953 - we lost them all, natch. The likelihood of that happening is so improbable that they must have been rigged, right?

Giveitfong · 26-06-2011 10:26PM

Waterford minor hurlers qualified for a third successive Munster final when they overcame Limerick in an amazing semi-final game in Walsh Park on Saturday night. This was a real see-saw game, with Waterford totally dominating the first quarter and building up a big lead, following which Limerick fought back with growing momentum which turned into total control for much of the second half, to the extent that they went into a three-point lead with just five minutes to go. However, Waterford steadied the ship and brought the game into extra time in which they outshot their opponents by six points to one to finish 4-17 to 3-15 winners.

Waterford started playing into the city goal with both the sun (which didn’t last long) and the stiff breeze behind them and absolutely owned the first fifteen minutes. More importantly, they made their territorial control tell on the score board. Right half forward Darragh Flynn fired home a marvellous goal after just one minute after great work by right full forward Adam O’Sullivan. Two minutes later the Limerick full back failed to cut out a great low ball in from midfield and full forward Stephen Bennett ran on to finish expertly to the net. Five minutes later Bennett repeated the dose, gathering Cein Chester’s good low ball from the left corner to give the Limerick keeper no chance from 15 metres.

After ten minutes Waterford were 3-3 to no score in front, and by that stage Limerick had failed to get the ball inside the Waterford 45 metre line even once. However, one was mindful that the Waterford seniors had a similar lead over Limerick in the championship exactly ten years previously and yet managed to lose in the end. And indeed, Limerick gradually began to get on top in midfield and to create chances, many of which were missed to leave Waterford still eleven points to the good after 20 minutes, 3-5 to 0-3.

Waterford might have put the game completely beyond Limerick’s reach coming up to half time when (I think) Bennett’s great run through the middle and pass left Chester completely in the clear in front of goal but his first touch left him down and his second effort went wide. Almost immediately, Limerick were presented with a lifeline with a soft goal at the other end. The Waterford defence failed to clear its lines leaving a Limerick forward in for a shot which goalkeeper Paddy Cooke saved well at the post. However, still on his knees, Cooke unwisely attempted to roll lift the loose ball back into his grasp (instead of tipping it out for a 65) and was dispossessed by the inrushing Kevin O’Brien who finished to the net. However, Cooke was to make up for this lapse with some excellent saves later in the game.

Half time: Waterford 3-7 Limerick 1-4.

Following their brilliant start Waterford had become quite tentative, increasingly being beaten to the ball, losing the fifty-fifties and fumbling possession, while their preoccupation with short handpassing in the middle third saw them repeatedly losing possession when it was clear that the early ball into the full forward line was the ball to play. We hoped that Waterford would regroup during the half time break but Limerick scored two points within a minute of the restart and were on their way. Only poor shooting on their part allowed Waterford to maintain their big lead, and after 40 minutes they still led by 3-8 to 1-7.

Playing with great physicality and commitment, Limerick got completely on top in the middle third and with the flow of play going almost entirely in the direction of the Waterford goal, the scores began to materialise. Corner forward O’Brien got his second goal, batting home the rebound after a good Cooke save. In a breakaway, Stephen Bennett got possession on the right and broke through to again finish to the net to provide the home team with badly needed oxygen, but Limerick left half forward Mark Carmody then careered through to shoot Limerick’s third goal which left the teams level 4-8 to 3-11 after fifty minutes.

Limerick, led by their powerful centre forward Shane Dowling, were now rampant, and three points in succession put them in what looked like an unassailable position with five minutes to go. Then, as if by magic, Waterford lifted the siege and scored three points to level matters. However, the key factor here was not magic but astute substitutions by the Waterford mentors and the benefit of heavy early-year conditioning which gave Waterford a crucial advantage in fitness as the game entered its closing stages.

Jake Dillon got things going with a point from a 65, then substitute Donie Breathnach, with his first touch, rode two heavy tackles to shoot a super point only to have it bettered moments later with a brilliant equaliser by fellow substitute Cormac Heffernan. In fact, the introduction of Heffernan, who is only making his way back following an horrific leg break in last year’s All-Ireland quarter final, was the single most important ingredient in the Waterford comeback, as he used his strength and freshness to win ball repeatedly after he entered the fray.
Score at the end of normal time: Waterford 4-11 Limerick 3-14

Waterford were a transformed team in extra time, winning primary possession all over the field and, crucially, holding onto it to drive at the Limerick defence. The frees followed, with Jake Dillon doing the honours from various distances and angles. Having notched the last three scores in normal time, Waterford proceeded to add the first five scores in extra time to go five points up, 4-16 to 3-14 at the end of the first period of extra time.

However, Limerick refused to give up and threw the kitchen sink at the Waterford goal in the second period of extra time. There were some hairy moments (including a disallowed goal), some super saves by Cooke and some good defending, but all Limerick could manage was a single point to which Waterford replied in kind to leave the final score: Waterford 4-17 Limerick 3-15.

There was a clear similarity between this game and Waterford’s first-round win over Tipperary in which Waterford also built up an early lead only to have it wiped out before coming good in the end. In both games also, the opposition’s cause was not helped by a multiplicity of wides and Waterford will surely get caught if they let this happen again. They know they can play better than they did for much of Saturday night’s game, and that they need to maintain their intensity for more sustained periods.

However, they have a fantastic never-say-die spirit, are superbly fit and have a fantastic panel of players. For example, apart from Heffernan and Breathnach, I thought that Jim Power did very well when coming into the fullback line in the second half for the injured Damien Ahern.

Waterford: Paddy Cooke; Jamie Barron; Damien Ahern; Colin Walsh; Stephen O’Neill; Darren Foley; Shane Roche; Gavin O’Brien (0-3, one free); Ray Barry (0-1); Darragh Flynn (1-0); Jake Dillon (0-8, 0-6 frees); Shane McNulty (0-1); Adam O’Sullivan; Stephen Bennett (3-2); Cein Chester. Substitutes: Jim Power for Ahern; Cormac Heffernan (0-1) for Chester; Mícheál Harney for Flynn; Ian Kenny for Roche; Donie Breathnach (0-1) for O’Sullivan; Colin Dunford for O’Neill; Chris Kervick for McNulty.

Limerick: PJ Hall; Shane Irwin; Barry O’Connell; Brian Murphy; Liam Ryan; Ciaran Keogh; Barry Lynch; Dan Morrissey; Diarmuid Dee; David Reidy; Shane Dowling (0-7, all frees); Mark Carmody (1-4, one free); Kevin O’Brien (2-2); Mike Fitzgibbon, Jack Aherne (0-2). No record kept of substitutes.

tomkelly99 · 26-06-2011 11:08PM

The Datsun is being serviced so I cycled to the game.It was very good. There were lots of goals and points in it.Waterford deserved to win, but Limerick deserved to win too. I thought it was a big call out of Davy to name an entirely different team to the drawn game in Thurles two weeks ago. Limerick did the same thing, but I'd expect something crafty like that from Donal O'Grady. He's clever,like a fox. The Waterford team looked very light. I thought Davy had them lads on a weights programme. I've seen a few of the panel in the Peoples Park doing pushups and situps. Sure one night I went up to Ken McGrath in the Park and asked him for an autograph,but he was too tired after doing 4,000 pushups.But this team was a lot lighter than the team that played a few weeks back. There was lads there wouldn't lift a bag of flour for you.But a win is a win.

One of the lads was saying that Walsh Park is named after Brick Walsh.I thought fellas had to be dead to have stadiums named after them.But he's very good and deserves to have a pitch named after him. Sure didn't Cavan do the same when they named Kingspan Breffni Park after that great Gael, Roger Kingspan. The rugby lads did the same thing by naming their new stadium in Dublin after the captain of the Grand Slam winning team of 1948, Fergal Aviva.

That new fella Jake Dillonhall was very good.He was in Donnie Darko,and he was good in that.He was in the game last night, and he was even better.We're very good at getting goals.An old man once told me 'goals win games'.I think it was that fella Mary Byrne from X Factor. Our first goal reminded me of the goal Ghana got against Liberia in the African Nations Cup a few years ago. All quick wrists and fast ground hurling.

So now we face the Banner in the Munster Final. I saw Clare play a few years back and they're very good. There's a few lads in particular we'll have to watch out for - PJ O'Connell, Fergie Tuohy and the Lohan sisters, Brian and Frank. They're all very good players. The game is bizarrely fixed for Cork on the same day as the big fellas Munster final. How fellas are going to be able to play two games in a row is beyond me. The Waterford County Board have made an offer to the Clare County Board to play the game in Cratloe. In return the Clare County Board will give us a quarter of the gate, so roughly €26.

All in all,I think people will agree it's heady days for the men from the Deise.

liogairmhordain · 26-06-2011 11:11PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

Cork and Tipp will be drawn against each other in the first round of Munster next year, if not it will be the semi final.

Why would the Munster Council / the GAA / whoever keep drawing Cork and Tipp together? If they were fixing it, surely they would want to freshen things up a bit with some different pairings.

STIG83 · 26-06-2011 11:12PM

Tom Kelly, you are some legend!! You should post here more often

Your posts are quality!!

deiseach · 26-06-2011 11:21PM

tomkelly99 wrote: »

That new fella Jake Dillonhall was very good.He was in Donnie Darko,and he was good in that.

flahavaj · 26-06-2011 11:29PM

STIG83 wrote: »

Tom Kelly, you are some legend!! You should post here more often
Your posts are quality!!

An rud is annamh is iontach IMO.

tomkelly.

jacksie · 27-06-2011 09:17AM

Deise Tom wrote: »

Did not see the draws, was listening to Damien Lawlors show at the time. The draws in the GAA are fixed with a very long time. There is no doubt about it. You will get some that will say they are not. If they are not, i suggest that those performing them should do the lotto more often.

Even locally you have to have doubts. How many times in the past for the draws for the semi finals of the senior hurling have Mount Sion and Ballygunner avoided each other. I know they met was it two years ago, but it was the years prior to this i am referring to. When they were numbers 1 and 2 in the rankings in the county they seldom if ever met before a county final.

This is an absolutely ridiculous statement to the point it nullifies every argument you have ever made.

Did George Bush organise the Twin Towers attack too? And Saddam Hussein was actually dead with 10 years?

Get a grip

Backstreet Moyes · 27-06-2011 11:06AM

When will the tickets for the Munster Final be on sale. I presume it will be €25 for adults and €15 for students for the terraces?

calvin_zola · 27-06-2011 01:37PM

they are on ticket master at the moment.... 35/25 for stand 20 for terrace.... you will be able to buy them on the day aswell up there and get student rate at the TM van

O Riain · 27-06-2011 02:27PM

calvin_zola wrote: »

they are on ticket master at the moment.... 35/25 for stand 20 for terrace.... you will be able to buy them on the day aswell up there and get student rate at the TM van

hold on now, whered u read this student rate carry on, theres never student rates for munster finals....

calvin_zola · 27-06-2011 02:32PM

O Riain wrote: »

hold on now, whered u read this student rate carry on, theres never student rates for munster finals....

its a little know fact that if you acquire a ticket on the day with a student card at the official TM ticket vans located close to the grounds you will get 5 euros concession... I did it last year for both Munster Finals...... Id imagine its the same if you go to a TM distributor, they just need to see student brief.... student rates have always been there, its just since everything went online they cannot police people buying student tickets who aren't students.... so they don't offer them on the web portal

deiseach · 27-06-2011 02:37PM

O Riain wrote: »

hold on now, whered u read this student rate carry on, theres never student rates for munster finals....

Munster GAA says there are student rates

Ticket prices as follows:-

Covered €35

Uncovered €30

Terrace €20

Family Adult Covered €30 – Juveniles €5

Family Adult UnCovered €25 – Juveniles €5

Student/OAP – Concession on Stand Tickets only – pay full price and get a refund of €10 at specified Stiles on the day (on production of valid I.D.)

calvin_zola · 27-06-2011 03:18PM

deiseach wrote: »

Munster GAA says there are student rates

Ticket prices as follows:-

Covered €35

Uncovered €30

Terrace €20

Family Adult Covered €30 – Juveniles €5

Family Adult UnCovered €25 – Juveniles €5

Student/OAP – Concession on Stand Tickets only – pay full price and get a refund of €10 at specified Stiles on the day (on production of valid I.D.)

it said that last year aswell but I still got the concession for the terrace on the day

Mountainlad · 27-06-2011 03:24PM

O Riain wrote: »

hold on now, whered u read this student rate carry on, theres never student rates for munster finals....

All-Ireland finals, you're thinking of perhaps?

deisebhoy17 · 27-06-2011 03:50PM

Is Jim Corr a regular poster here.. hehe

mccarthy37 · 27-06-2011 09:34PM

Challenge match played Saturday morning Waterford 3. 19 Wexford 0. 19

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2009-2011

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