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Tribal bigotry is not a response to IRA violence -- it was there before

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    One was a bomb designed to kill members of the now disgraced quasi-paramilitary UDR regiment on parade which tragically went wrong resulting in the death of many innocent civillians.

    The other was a bunch of UVF "soilders" deciding after many drinks to go "looking for a taig" in a black taxi , picking up (usually drunk) civillians in nationalist areas torturing them in the most deprived ways ( ripping out finger nails & teeth) stringing them up like cattle & slashing at them with butcher cleavers & knives.. sometimes in front of crowds of drinkers.. before finally almost decapitating them with a sharp butchers knive..in some cases with the victims pleading to be killed..

    lol


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    One was a bomb designed to kill members of the now disgraced quasi-paramilitary UDR regiment on parade which tragically went wrong resulting in the death of many innocent civillians.

    The other was a bunch of UVF "soilders" deciding after many drinks to go "looking for a taig" in a black taxi , picking up (usually drunk) civillians in nationalist areas torturing them in the most deprived ways ( ripping out finger nails & teeth) stringing them up like cattle & slashing at them with butcher cleavers & knives.. sometimes in front of crowds of drinkers.. before finally almost decapitating them with a sharp butchers knive..in some cases with the victims pleading to be killed..

    Still hard to say??
    That is hilarious. Well done sir.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    stovelid wrote: »
    He read the book (as did I) and you're rebutting his views based on a review of same?

    Are you not ashamed to even say this?
    Well the book review would seem to report Myarse true to form i.e. Walter Mitty's diary.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    That is hilarious. Well done sir.

    His description should be stickied as the single most perfect example of paramilitary whatabutery I've ever seen on here.

    Dehumanize the suffering and death of your own victims while mawkishly keening the murder committed by the other side.

    In short: a disgustingly self-serving 'value-tiering' of civilian murder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Well the book review would seem to report Myarse true to form i.e. Walter Mitty's diary.

    I did note that you had little trouble with a prima facie acceptance of Myer's writings when he happens to be excoriating Loyalism?

    Apparently it's just the excoriation of your own heroes that you demand a ream of footnotes and verification for?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    philologos wrote: »
    PatsyTheNazi - Couldn't one argue the same about nationalism and republicanism?
    Could you, I cann't see how :confused: Was say, John Hume and Albert Reynolds two cheer leaders flirting with the IRA and INLA, like Paisley and Trimble with the loyalists ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Could you, I cann't see how :confused: Was say, John Hume and Albert Reynolds two cheer leaders flirting with the IRA and INLA, like Paisley and Trimble with the loyalists ?
    Well, change it to Charles Haughey and the answer might be different.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    stovelid wrote: »
    I did note that you had little trouble with a prima facie acceptance of Myer's writings when he happens to be excoriating Loyalism?

    Apparently it's just the excoriation of your own heroes that you demand a ream of footnotes and verification for?
    Well as you can see from my OP, it took me as surprise the tone of the article. Even Myarse has to get it right once in a while.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Even Myarse has to get it right once in a while.

    So he's right about Loyalism even though you automatically cast doubt on the veracity of his accounts of dealings with Republicans - in a book you've never read?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Could you, I cann't see how :confused: Was say, John Hume and Albert Reynolds two cheer leaders flirting with the IRA and INLA, like Paisley and Trimble with the loyalists ?

    If you select your people carefully enough you can skew the argument easily.

    What if I asked you about Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    That is hilarious. Well done sir.


    Whats so hilarious?? west brit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    Well, change it to Charles Haughey and the answer might be different.
    Well Haughey did indeed do a 'Paisley' on it - trying to appear to be a "man of action" :rolleyes: ) - when the nationalists were facing a total onslaught from the RUC and unionist mobs. But anyway, are you telling me that the same extent of cheer leading and colluding with loyalists throughout the troubles went on in FF and the rest of the Gombeen state ?

    (I actually have no problems with anyone sending arms to the six counties in August 1969 and believe it was an act of treachery not to, what where people in the north supposed to do - let the RUC and unionists mobs murder and burn their families out of it ? )


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    Whats so hilarious?? west brit.
    Would anyone object if I declared game, set and match to myself at this point?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    stovelid wrote: »
    His description should be stickied as the single most perfect example of paramilitary whatabutery I've ever seen on here.

    Dehumanize the suffering and death of your own victims while mawkishly keening the murder committed by the other side.

    In short: a disgustingly self-serving 'value-tiering' of civilian murder.
    self-serving 'value-tiering' :rolleyes:
    Wow you know a lot of big words.. arent you very pleased with yourself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Could you, I cann't see how :confused: Was say, John Hume and Albert Reynolds two cheer leaders flirting with the IRA and INLA, like Paisley and Trimble with the loyalists ?

    Hume was never involved with physical force nationalism and Reynolds is an ex-Taoiseach of the Republic, nothing to do with the six counties.

    As noted by the poster before me, a better example would be Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness - two people now in the political firmament with strong links to Republican paramilitaries.

    In fact, they were serving on the army council for a lot of the same time: a more through flirtation than that of Paisley and Trimble who tried to invoke Loyalist muscle (from their position in the Unionist Big House/middle-class) down the years with varying success but ended up being shunned by them (and told to "go and fight to the last drop of somebody else's blood") and supplanted by the nascent Loyalist political movements that sprang from their own ranks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Would anyone object if I declared game, set and match to myself at this point?

    youd be as well going & playing with yourself so yeah do that


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    I wonder would it be possible to change the forum rules here so that you couldn't post in Politics until you have made 500 posts on Boards? Just throwing it out there. It might raise the standard of contribution somewhat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    self-serving 'value-tiering' :rolleyes:
    Wow you know a lot of big words.. arent you very pleased with yourself.

    You talk glibly about the murder of people (by both sides) from your armchair as if you're describing a school project and then resort to playground epithets when people articulate an argument in return.

    Your time is done in Irish history. Your heroes will be viewed as a shame and aberration to future generations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    philologos wrote: »
    If you select your people carefully enough you can skew the argument easily.

    What if I asked you about Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness?
    Your the one who asked about nationalism and republicanism. I think any reasonable person would refer Hume, Reynolds, Lynch etc as nationalists. And Adams, McGuinness etc as Republicans.

    Tell me why are you so sympathetic to the unionists/loyalists ? Have you been up there once or twice and meet some ' nice ' middle class golf club unionists and so your a champion of their cause ever since ?
    stovelid wrote: »
    Hume was never involved with physical force nationalism and Reynolds is an ex-Taoiseach of the Republic, nothing to do with the six counties.

    As noted by the poster before me, a better example would be Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness - two people now in the political firmament with strong links to Republican paramilitaries.
    As above, I think any reasonable person would refer Hume, Reynolds, etc as nationalists. And Adams, McGuinness etc as Republicans. I think Albert would describe himself as a nationalist - wouldn't you ? And he was also invovled in direct talks with the loyalists, unionists, and British govt regarding the occupied counties etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    Whats so hilarious?? west brit.

    Wait a minute - you are Scottish. My irony meter just went haywire.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    stovelid wrote: »
    You talk glibly about the murder of people from your armchair (by both sides) as if you're describing a school project and then resort to playground epithets when people articulate an argument.

    You're time is done in Irish history. You will be viewed as a shame and aberration to future generations.

    Well you may call it murder i dont . i doubt future generations will give two ****s about smart arse guys like you on a forum whos contribution to Irish history is sitting smugly typing into a computer about how one side is as bad as the other.. well done Myers for telling it like it is .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Wait a minute - you are Scottish. My irony meter just went haywire.


    very witty Oscar wilde.. no i was born in Scotland to Irish parents but i dont have to defend myself to your racism.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Tell me why are you so sympathetic to the unionists/loyalists ? Have you been up there once or twice and meet some ' nice ' middle class golf club unionists and so your a champion of their cause ever since ?

    I'm not sympathetic to them. I think it is up to the people of Northern Ireland to decide what is best for them. What I am tired of is dishonest propaganda of the type you're peddling. I'd say the very same to someone on the other side doing this.

    I think the Republic is good. I think it is good that the 26 counties are able to govern themselves because most people want this democratically. The same is not true of the North. They want to remain in union with Britain.

    In the 21st century the UK is a freedom protecting society with a high level of civil liberties. I'm more than happy in terms of the UK governing Northern Ireland for the foreseeable future.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    whos contribution to Irish history is sitting smugly typing into a computer about how one side is as bad as the other.. well done Myers for telling it like it is .

    And what's yours?


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Sorry guys. No more fun to be had.
    Oranbhoy banned.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    very witty Oscar wilde.. no i was born in Scotland to Irish parents but i dont have to defend myself to your racism.
    Sorry, when was I racist? Was it when you called me a West Brit, as an intended insult?

    How ironic that the guy throwing insults about national identity then turns around and complains of being a victim.

    Edit: Oops - sorry Dr. Bollocko, just saw your last.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    stovelid wrote: »
    You talk glibly about the murder of people (by both sides) from your armchair as if you're describing a school project and then resort to playground epithets when people articulate an argument in return.

    Your time is done in Irish history. Your heroes will be viewed as a shame and aberration to future generations.
    Both sides ? Loyalists/RUC/Brit army versus IRA, INLA etc Or do just hypocricitcally ignore the ones caried out by the Brit forces - offically and unoffically in collusion with the unionist gangs ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Both sides ? Loyalists/RUC/Brit army versus IRA, INLA etc Or do just hypocricitcally ignore the ones caried out by the Brit forces - offically and unoffically in collusion with the unionist gangs ?
    Where... is there evidence of that being ignored?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Both sides ? Loyalists/RUC/Brit army versus IRA, INLA etc Or do just hypocricitcally ignore the ones caried out by the Brit forces - offically and unoffically in collusion with the unionist gangs ?

    Your understanding of the phrase both sides obviously differs to mine?

    For clarity, I was talking only about murders committed by Republican and Loyalist terrorists, but I do believe that a number of killings committed by the British forces (and local forces) qualify readily as murder.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    philologos wrote: »
    I'm not sympathetic to them. I think it is up to the people of Northern Ireland to decide what is best for them. What I am tired of is dishonest propaganda of the type you're peddling. I'd say the very same to someone on the other side doing this.

    I think the Republic is good. I think it is good that the 26 counties are able to govern themselves because most people want this democratically. The same is not true of the North. They want to remain in union with Britain.

    In the 21st century the UK is a freedom protecting society with a high level of civil liberties. I'm more than happy in terms of the UK governing Northern Ireland for the foreseeable future.
    "I'm not sympathetic to them." Ya could have fooled me buddy :D The 26 and 6 county states came into existance becasue of the denial of democracy, not the application of it. A bit off topic, but the families of those murdered in Loughisland whose offical report was published yesterday, Bloody Sunday and the Dublin bombings of 1974 etc wouldn't look at Britain thru the rose tinted glasses that you and too often Myers does " the UK is a freedom protecting society " - and neither would the thousands of families of the dead and injured in Iraq either. Try and get the blinkers off sometime.


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