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Tribal bigotry is not a response to IRA violence -- it was there before

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Comments

  • #32
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Yeah, sorry. :)


  • #33
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Hes not saying that out of badness but the north isnt considered part of britian its considered part of the uk.

    To be fair, Britain is considered by many people to be an acceptable way of describing the UK when it comes to history, politics, international relations etc. The majority of books you find on the topic at uni would refer to Britain as opposed to the UK, ie British forces in World War 2, or British intelligence in the Cold War.

    In most circumstances (although not geographically) Britain is more than an acceptable way of refering to the UK. Plus, "UK" is harsh on the ear whereas "Britain" is a nicer word. :D


  • #34
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    That happened yes, places where alcohol is served and pool tables etc, the beatings happened in these clubs, with members of the crowd joinging in, cheering etc.
    ]

    Correct.

    Apparently, it derived from a children's TV show called The Romper Room (as in Romper suit) popular at the time when the original UDA death squads of the early 70s (and slightly later, the UVF-derived Shankill Butchers) and the killers indeed nicknamed Loyalist drinking clubs as romper rooms and the acts of mass torture as rompering. I guess the verb romp also has the macabre connotation of group fun and games as well.


  • #35
    theboss80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭theboss80


    Example : Great Britain and Northern Ireland in Athletics


    Wonder what their Olympic soccer team will be referred to seeing as both Scotland and Wales are not willing to allow their players to play?


  • #36
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    PatsytheNazi wrote: »
    Yes, that's what got me, Myarse usual only has a go at Irish nationalism, but in this article he almost portraying SF and the IRA in a positive light " There is a congenial, indeed government-backed myth, in both Scotland and in Ireland, that "one side is bad as another": that Sinn Fein-IRA are pretty much the same as the UDA/UVF. This is simply untrue. There is no republican equivalent to the Romper Rooms of the UDA "

    If you read KM's book about his time as a journalist in Belfast, this is pretty analogous with his views then and he was well in with members of all the loyalist groups, the OIRA and the Provos.


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  • #37
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    To be fair, Britain is considered by many people to be an acceptable way of describing the UK when it comes to history, politics, international relations etc. The majority of books you find on the topic at uni would refer to Britain as opposed to the UK, ie British forces in World War 2, or British intelligence in the Cold War.

    In most circumstances (although not geographically) Britain is more than an acceptable way of refering to the UK. Plus, "UK" is harsh on the ear whereas "Britain" is a nicer word. :D

    Its beginning to change though I've noticed. Sammy Wilson the DUP MP recently suggested the GB olympics team should be changed to the UK olympics team


  • #38
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    I thought KM was just a professional troll who will say anything to get any reaction, just so long as somebody is looking at him.

    Also, a twat.

    Actually I don't agree. Troll would suggest taking up a position - often one you don;t hold - purely to inflame.

    What he said there is consistent enough with what I have read in his book and his columns down the years even if he has a lot of the bile for the IRA too. Certainly in his book, his dislike of Loyalists seems far more pronounced than that of the PIRA.

    I detest a lot of his views but I've found a lot of what he's written politically about the North to be consistent and evenly balanced despite the tag of Neo-Unionist although he's said some horrible things about OK politicians and citizens. He was actually quite an Republican sympathizer in his early days as a journalist in Belfast but like many personally associated with the troubles now obviously hates all the paramilitaries. I guess that's the difference when you've been cheek-by-jowl with them instead of breathlessly emoting from an armchair or a barstool.

    I'm sure the Indo like having such an opinionated writer (with a lot of dodgy views) but saying he's a troll misses the point somewhat.


  • #39
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    stovelid wrote: »
    Actually I don't agree. Troll would suggest taking up a position - often one you don;t hold - purely to inflame.

    What he said there is consistent enough with what I have read in his book and his columns down the years even if he has a lot of the bile for the IRA too. Certainly in his book, his dislike of Loyalists seems far more pronounced than that of the PIRA.

    I detest a lot of his views but I've found a lot of what he's written about the North to be consistent and evenly balanced despite the tag of Neo-Unionist. He was actually quite an Republican sympathizer in his early days as a journalist in Belfast but like many personally associated with the troubles now obviously hates all the paramilitaries.

    I'm sure the Indo like having such an opinionated writer (with a lot of dodgy views) but saying he's a troll misses the point somewhat.
    He is an Irish Republican. Of course he is going to hate Loyalists more than PIRA. Two different people who hate each other.


  • #40
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    He is an Irish Republican. Of course he is going to hate Loyalists more than PIRA. Two different people who hate each other.

    He is not an Irish republican.


  • #41
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    He is an Irish Republican.

    Is he now?

    Are you saying that for adair?

    /boom boom


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  • #42
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    He is an Irish Republican. Of course he is going to hate Loyalists more than PIRA. Two different people who hate each other.
    LOL!

    Myres may be Irish (I'm pretty sure he is). Myres may be a republican (not so sure here). The one thing he most definitely is not is an Irish Republican (110% sure on this).

    LOL!


  • #43
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    LOL!

    Myres may be Irish (I'm pretty sure he is). Myres may be a republican (not so sure here). The one thing he most definitely is not is an Irish Republican (110% sure on this).

    LOL!
    Ok, so he is biased then. Thought so.


  • #44
    getzls
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    RichieC wrote: »
    :pac:

    seriously?

    In general no. It would have been Protestants who got an invite to these romper rooms. Usually UDA men for not paying their dues or kids for anti-social stuff. Catholics i guess who where there would not have been invited but dragged there.


  • #45
    oranbhoy67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    getzls wrote: »
    In general no. It would have been Protestants who got an invite to these romper rooms. Usually UDA men for not paying their dues or kids for anti-social stuff. Catholics i guess who where there would not have been invited but dragged there.
    The "romper room" murders which happened from the 90s right up to the 70s occured in UDA/UVF drinking clubs were victims who were presumed to be Catholic were kidnapped to & tortured & ultimatley killed.. sometimes in front of an audience..these where men as well as women as in the case of Margaret Wright & a few others in the 90s some of whom where actually Protestants who had made the mistake of socialising in an area where they where not known.


  • #46
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Excellent article.


  • #47
    stevenmu
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »
    He adopts some unusual stances at times- like having a go at Churchill. No matter what one thinks of Churchill his record in standing up to Hitler after fall of France, and before USA entered was heroic.

    In fairness Churchill did have failings and deserved to be criticised for them, but people tend to overlook them in favour of the good things he did. Myers seems to like to bring up the overlooked sides of things, to show the negative sides of things which people think are good, or to show the positive sides of things which people generally think are bad. IMO it's important to look at all aspects of things, but this is what gets Myers labelled as a troll.


  • #48
    pragmatic1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    There was several loylists who refer to the shankill butchers as decent guys, which is what made me realise we werent dealing with real political motive more a mental condition based on hate.
    Yeah I remember watching a documentary where a prominent member of the UUP said he had a sneaking admiration for loyalist paramilitaries. Shocking stuff. You'd never hear the SDLP saying something like that.


  • #49
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    LOL!

    Myres may be Irish (I'm pretty sure he is).!

    He's English.


  • #50
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    stovelid wrote: »
    He's English.
    He always refers to himself as Irish. Being born in England to Irish parents gave him a choice of nationalities. He appears to have chosen Irish. He always calls himself Irish so I will call him that, to do otherwise is disrespectful.


  • #51
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    stevenmu wrote: »
    In fairness Churchill did have failings and deserved to be criticised for them, but people tend to overlook them in favour of the good things he did. Myers seems to like to bring up the overlooked sides of things, to show the negative sides of things which people think are good, or to show the positive sides of things which people generally think are bad. IMO it's important to look at all aspects of things, but this is what gets Myers labelled as a troll.

    Churchill was ideal for the job of leading Britain during the war years, the British people knew exactly what he was like however, that's why he was voted out of power the second WW2 ended.


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  • #52
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    He always refers to himself as Irish. Being born in England to Irish parents gave him a choice of nationalities. He appears to have chosen Irish. He always calls himself Irish so I will call him that, to do otherwise is disrespectful.
    But he's also English.
    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Funny article though.
    What's funny about it?
    KeithAFC wrote: »
    He is an Irish Republican. Of course he is going to hate Loyalists more than PIRA.
    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Ok, so he is biased then. Thought so.
    It has been explained what his views are - your trolling is pointless. In a nutshell: Kevin Myers is republican/biased in favour of republicans in the same way that you're not a UVF sympathiser. ;)


  • #53
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    Dudess wrote: »
    But he's also English.
    I've never seen Myres refer to himself as English. Why call him English when he does not?


  • #54
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Dudess wrote: »
    But he's also English.

    What's funny about it?


    It has been explained what his views are - your trolling is pointless. In a nutshell: Kevin Myers is republican/biased in favour of republicans in the same way that you're not a UVF sympathiser. ;)
    :) I said he was.


  • #55
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    You said he was what? And what is funny about the article? Do you also think hurling missiles and verbal abuse at little catholic girls walking to school is funny?
    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    I've never seen Myres refer to himself as English. Why call him English when he does not?
    Because he was born in England.


  • #56
    Duiske
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Duiske


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    I've never seen Myres refer to himself as English. Why call him English when he does not?

    He was born in Leicester, England.


  • #57
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Dudess wrote: »
    You said he was what? And what is funny about the article? Do you also think hurling missiles and verbal abuse at little catholic girls walking to school is funny?

    Because he was born in England.
    Keith supports the UVF and uses sectarian language.


    See how he equates any Irish man with a Irish republican? Thats the reasoning his heroes in the UVF used in killing random catholics.

    Its pretty clear what Keith is at this stage, I wouldn't waste your time with him.


  • #58
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    Duiske wrote: »
    He was born in Leicester, England.

    Irish blood, with influences of asian culture as a child then. Nothing English about him... :pac:


  • #59
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Keith supports the UVF and uses sectarian language.


    See how he equates any Irish man with a Irish republican? Thats the reasoning his heroes in the UVF used in killing random catholics.

    Its pretty clear what Keith is at this stage, I wouldn't waste your time with him.

    Have you not expressed your support for the IRA in the past?

    Probably just shows that Keith doesn't have the same ability to hold his tongue when emotions run high as others on here do. Same coin, two sides.


  • #60
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    Dudess wrote: »
    Because he was born in England.
    Yet he always claims to be Irish! FFS his column in the Irish Times was titled An Irishman's Diary. Who are you to dispute his nationality? There are probably people posting on this very thread who were born in England to Irish parents who consider themselves nothing but Irish.


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  • #61
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    Not a chance. There's actually no pro-Sinn Fein/IRA views whatsoever in this, just pointing out the romper room stuff made loyalists violence worse.

    Criticising loyalists does not mean pro-nationalism.

    God forbid that someone should have a balanced view, huh?


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