Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2009-2011

Jeddah · 13-06-2011 01:34PM

If he is our No.2 full back why wasnt he brought on yesterday?? Davy musnt have much faith in him. I think our problem yesterday in the backs was not the players but that our manager couldnt figure out what Limericj were after doing.

Jeddah · 13-06-2011 01:38PM

deiseach wrote: »

Thought Donal O'Grady was the best player on the pitch with Wayne McNamara running him a close second. They were immense

Ya they had very good games , but it was Mahoneys championship debut and also had the added responsibility of taking the frees at short notice , also got some lovely scores from play

STIG83 · 13-06-2011 02:37PM

Anyone out on the terrace yesterday? the reason i ask is i heard there was a bit of trouble there with Limerick fans throwing stuff at the Waterford fans, i heard one guy got hit on the back of the head.
I only seen it once before, that was 04 against Clare in Thurles, the group i was with had coins thrown in our direction.

deiseach · 13-06-2011 04:18PM

STIG83 wrote: »

Anyone out on the terrace yesterday? the reason i ask is i heard there was a bit of trouble there with Limerick fans throwing stuff at the Waterford fans, i heard one guy got hit on the back of the head.
I only seen it once before, that was 04 against Clare in Thurles, the group i was with had coins thrown in our direction.

I remember trouble in Ennis in 2005 when a bottle of water was thrown on the terrace. I wasn't at the game, but I know this because it was my brother doing the throwing

Clano · 13-06-2011 05:01PM

STIG83 wrote: »

Anyone out on the terrace yesterday? the reason i ask is i heard there was a bit of trouble there with Limerick fans throwing stuff at the Waterford fans, i heard one guy got hit on the back of the head.
I only seen it once before, that was 04 against Clare in Thurles, the group i was with had coins thrown in our direction.

i was there and i saw this absolute tinkers is all they were.
There was a group of limerick fans who iv seen congregate under the scoreboard whenever we play them and from before the game you could sense there would be trouble.
there must of being at least 80 to 90 of them came along drinking, one had a megafone and the things he was sayin on it were a disgrace, abusing every waterford player personally.
During the game then it got worse and every time limerick scored cans were thrown down the terrace at waterford fans as there was a small group behind the goal which consisted of a few lads as well as families with young children.
When limerick scored the last goal was when the lad was hit in the back of the head.
twas shocking and the hole area was evacuated and the stewards didnt do anything,
I was actually talking to one of the lads in the group that was hit after and he said when the can was thrown the steward came over and asked one of his friends to put out his cigarette!!!
Twas a disgrace the way they carried on, its not that hard to see why some, not all, have that reputation

At the final whistle then a number of the tinkers ran down to provoke 2 of the lads which were leaving, had it not been for a few other limerick fans and 1 garda it all would of kicked off

Mountainlad · 13-06-2011 05:07PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

If its true, does it not say that what was in Damien Tiernan's book was correct despite what some will say. Did i read some place in the past when Clare was it won their all-Ireland's the players gave it up while they were in the championship.

I know for a fact that when Kilkenny one the Waterford game in 2009, a celebrated player who had a particularly good game that day was drinking. I should imagine he wasn't the only one, i.e. they were allowed. That whole issue is blown completely out of proportion, and they definetly drank more when Justin was around then they do now. With some of the talk since last night you'd swear some people want him reinstated :eek:

Cake Man · 13-06-2011 05:09PM

^^ myself and Clano were there in the thick of it with all these "supporters" and I use the term very loosely. Glass bottle also thrown down and smashed, if it hit someone that person would have been split open. Stewards and guards did nothing.
At the end I felt sorry for the genuine LK supporters who turned up to support their team but I was delighted to turn around and laugh in those idiots sickened faces who obviously turned up to cause trouble.

STIG83 · 13-06-2011 05:13PM

Clano wrote: »

i was there and i saw this absolute tinkers is all they were.
There was a group of limerick fans who iv seen congregate under the scoreboard whenever we play them and from before the game you could sense there would be trouble.
there must of being at least 80 to 90 of them came along drinking, one had a megafone and the things he was sayin on it were a disgrace, abusing every waterford player personally.
During the game then it got worse and every time limerick scored cans were thrown down the terrace at waterford fans as there was a small group behind the goal which consisted of a few lads as well as families with young children.
When limerick scored the last goal was when the lad was hit in the back of the head.
twas shocking and the hole area was evacuated and the stewards didnt do anything,
I was actually talking to one of the lads in the group that was hit after and he said when the can was thrown the steward came over and asked one of his friends to put out his cigarette!!!
Twas a disgrace the way they carried on, its not that hard to see why some, not all, have that reputation

At the final whistle then a number of the tinkers ran down to provoke 2 of the lads which were leaving, had it not been for a few other limerick fans and 1 garda it all would of kicked off

That is shocking in fairness, you would have the banter between the fans, not with that kind of scum though. They dont even care about the match, they only go to cause trouble.
Least Waterford won to shut them up!!

KevIRL · 13-06-2011 05:19PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

If the match finished a draw would you travel up to the replay.???

Id say the crowd would be very poor if the game went to a replay.

Imagine having to pay E30/E25 again for the ticket ,petrol money,food/drink etc for the replay.

They could of played yesterdays match in Walsh Park and they would be still space left there

Without a doubt I would have gone. Things can be done to cut down on the costs, packed food, car pooling etc. We dont play all that many championship games each season relatively speaking and the team need and deserve our support. A lot of people moaning about the cost were probably out Saturday night having a skinful and spent a good bit more than the match going cost*. It was a really really poor turn out from Waterford people on Sunday.

* I will qualify this by acknowledging this isnt everyone, and in the current climate some people are very stuck, and its tougher again for those with families.

KevIRL · 13-06-2011 05:20PM

Clano wrote: »

i was there and i saw this absolute tinkers is all they were.
There was a group of limerick fans who iv seen congregate under the scoreboard whenever we play them and from before the game you could sense there would be trouble.
there must of being at least 80 to 90 of them came along drinking, one had a megafone and the things he was sayin on it were a disgrace, abusing every waterford player personally.
During the game then it got worse and every time limerick scored cans were thrown down the terrace at waterford fans as there was a small group behind the goal which consisted of a few lads as well as families with young children.
When limerick scored the last goal was when the lad was hit in the back of the head.
twas shocking and the hole area was evacuated and the stewards didnt do anything,
I was actually talking to one of the lads in the group that was hit after and he said when the can was thrown the steward came over and asked one of his friends to put out his cigarette!!!
Twas a disgrace the way they carried on, its not that hard to see why some, not all, have that reputation

At the final whistle then a number of the tinkers ran down to provoke 2 of the lads which were leaving, had it not been for a few other limerick fans and 1 garda it all would of kicked off

That is awful, I'm afraid that in our height of big Waterford crowds we often had a similar element. One thing to be thankful for with the lower crowd numbers is at least they arent there at the moment.

STIG83 · 13-06-2011 05:25PM

That behaviour wouldnt really happen at a soccer match!!, it's sad to see that kind of scumbag behaviour creeping into GAA matchs though, last thing you want to happen is be a target for trouble and hassle .

Cake Man · 13-06-2011 05:36PM

KevIRL wrote: »

Without a doubt I would have gone. Things can be done to cut down on the costs, packed food, car pooling etc. We dont play all that many championship games each season relatively speaking and the team need and deserve our support. A lot of people moaning about the cost were probably out Saturday night having a skinful and spent a good bit more than the match going cost*. It was a really really poor turn out from Waterford people on Sunday.

* I will qualify this by acknowledging this isnt everyone, and in the current climate some people are very stuck, and its tougher again for those with families.

Agreed. I don't know about other people but I plan my summers around these games! :pac:

Mountainlad · 13-06-2011 05:42PM

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Mountainlad is calling for Lawlor to be put in fullback praising his performances against Cork and Clare last year but fails to mention that he had a nightmare in the all Ireland semi against Tipp. I think he'll start there the next day as hes an alternative to Hutchinson. not necessarily because hes a better option.

I don't blame you considering the amount of post on this thread in the past 24 hours, but I explicitly stated that Liam had a bad game that day, but to be fair, he was in good company. Sure Noel McGrath ate Brick that day, so will we drop Brick. I'm not saying he's Brick but he's proven he's solid in other tests and has more game time in championship than Hutchison. I also made the point that a full back line is always going to get caught when you have ball raining down on the backline which happened torrentially against Tipp and against Limerick yesterday. But Hutchison wasn't tested and when he was he failed miserably. I also said I've seen them both play at club level and like obviously there's a big difference but I see Liam Lawlor dominate but not Hutchison, ever. And I'm not talking about one game, I was at about three Ballygunner games last year and 6 or 7 the year before and plenty of Fourmilewater games.

deiseach · 13-06-2011 05:43PM

KevIRL wrote: »

Without a doubt I would have gone. Things can be done to cut down on the costs, hang sangwidges, car pooling etc. We dont play all that many championship games each season relatively speaking and the team need and deserve our support. A lot of people moaning about the cost were probably out Saturday night having a skinful and spent a good bit more than the match going cost*. It was a really really poor turn out from Waterford people on Sunday.

* I will qualify this by acknowledging this isnt everyone, and in the current climate some people are very stuck, and its tougher again for those with families.

Fixed that for you

johnfarmer · 13-06-2011 05:50PM

Adrian Power's lethal puckouts would have been a massive advantage yesterday in dirty weather like that. But in fairness Pauric won 3 or 4 lovely balls on a day where clean fielding was unbelievably difficult. Anybody else notice Davy moved Shane Walsh out to wing forward? Real sign of panic.

STIG83 · 13-06-2011 05:52PM

johnfarmer wrote: »

Adrian Power's lethal puckouts would have been a massive advantage yesterday in dirty weather like that. But in fairness Pauric won 3 or 4 lovely balls on a day where clean fielding was unbelievably difficult. Anybody else notice Davy moved Shane Walsh out to wing forward? Real sign of panic.

Shane Walsh was fine where he was, Davy makes strange decisons at times

premierstone · 13-06-2011 06:03PM

johnfarmer wrote: »

Anybody else notice Davy moved Shane Walsh out to wing forward? Real sign of panic.

Tactical incompetence more than panic imo, and there are many examples of it, in fairness as iv said before he is a very very good physical coach but other than that saying he is limited would be a nice way of putting it

Mountainlad · 13-06-2011 06:04PM

premierstone wrote: »

Thats a very simplistic view tbh, of course shot stoping is an integral part of being a goalkeeper, its what seperates the greats from the also rans Fitzhenry, Cummins and that lunatic of a manager of yers they were/are all capable of making match winning saves, I can honestly say I have never seen Hennesy make any such save, its also one of the very reasons Galway have failed to deliver on all their talent, they havent had a decent keeper in donkeys years.

I miss learn how to manipulate videos because I've heard this a few times.

Decisive/quality saves Clinton has made;

2007-

League final v Kilkenny, flicked the ball off Shefflin's hurley.

Munster Final V Limerick, early save to deny Begley

All-Ireland quater final reply v Cork, many people have convieniently forgotten (ok in fairness if your from Tipp you'd hardly remember) the two early saves he made when our full back line was blitzed, imagine if Cork had scored two early goals? And both were one on ones.

All-ireland semi final v Limerick, on a day he couldn't to much and a year he did very well in and was unlucky to have a full back line that got torn to shreds at times, he made one good save from Seanie O Connor (believe that was his name)

2008-munster quarter final vs Clare, this save featured 20-30 in the recent top 50 saves of all time show on TG4, and although it wasn't decisive by any means it was quality.

2009-All ireland semi final v Kilkenny, a good save to deny Taggy Fogarty

These are only ones I can remember, I will compile a comprehensive list of any I see on the Waterford Chasing Glory dvd in a couple of weeks time. He isn't Brendan Cummins-granted. That's not why we haven't won an all-ireland and he's a damn side better than anything we had before him for a very long time. Power is possibly the best young shot stopper in Ireland (in fact he probably is) but until he is safer around the house or Clinton retires he doesn't merit starting.

I'd also just like to clarify how hard it is to save shots on the ground. I'm not a keeper, but I played in goal against Brian O'Halloran (against Clashmore, obviously). He scored three goals, but I remember making two saves, one in particular. He drilled it head height but straight at my head. They played me again there against Abbeyside. I was beaten by a ground shot, not hit particularly hard. I noticed it was incredibly hard to get down to it. People don't realise how hard it is to save ground shots or one on ones. Sure great keepers make great saves, but more often than not if a keeper saves a one on one, the forward has messed up.

So the first goal, he did as much as he could, and nearly managed to save it. Would have been a great save. Now, I will say I was disapointed with him for the third goal and undecided about the second. For the third, as someone mentioned already, he did a stupid dive. He needed to stand big and narrow the angle. I'd be suprised if he'd saved it but he gave himself no chance in that occasion, but it wouldn't have been his fault of we'd lost that game.

Mountainlad · 13-06-2011 06:08PM

premierstone wrote: »

Tactical incompetence more than panic imo, and there are many examples of it, in fairness as iv said before he is a very very good physical coach but other than that saying he is limited would be a nice way of putting it

While I'm as much an advocate of Shane playing full forward (was definetly saying it last year) he was getting no ball. The problem was that all clearances were landing on the half backline and were poor balls. Somebody needed to be getting on the ball somewhere between the halway line and our half back line and be driving the ball directly to Shane, other wise you could have him full back, it would be more use to you than what was happening yesterday.

Deise Tom · 13-06-2011 06:13PM

STIG83 wrote: »

Anyone out on the terrace yesterday? the reason i ask is i heard there was a bit of trouble there with Limerick fans throwing stuff at the Waterford fans, i heard one guy got hit on the back of the head.
I only seen it once before, that was 04 against Clare in Thurles, the group i was with had coins thrown in our direction.

Anyone remember the football game a few years back in Killarney, I think it was Kerry and Cork, and some fellow or fellows at the back of the terrace decided that they needed to spend a penny but did not want to miss any of the action on the field.

Deise Tom · 13-06-2011 06:16PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

I know for a fact that when Kilkenny one the Waterford game in 2009, a celebrated player who had a particularly good game that day was drinking. I should imagine he wasn't the only one, i.e. they were allowed. That whole issue is blown completely out of proportion, and they definetly drank more when Justin was around then they do now. With some of the talk since last night you'd swear some people want him reinstated :eek:

Who Justin. He remained a year or two too long.

Mountainlad · 13-06-2011 06:18PM

Jeddah wrote: »

If he is our No.2 full back why wasnt he brought on yesterday?? Davy musnt have much faith in him. I think our problem yesterday in the backs was not the players but that our manager couldnt figure out what Limericj were after doing.

Interviewed on WLR afterwards he was injured. Was he on the programme yesterday? Was Ringo on the programme? Did he warm up at any stage?

Mountainlad · 13-06-2011 06:19PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

Who Justin. He remained a year or two too long.

Agree with that, if he'd left a bit earlier maybe Fitzgerald wouldnt have gottne the job!

Deise Tom · 13-06-2011 06:20PM

premierstone wrote: »

Tactical incompetence more than panic imo, and there are many examples of it, in fairness as iv said before he is a very very good physical coach but other than that saying he is limited would be a nice way of putting it

And so say all of us.

Deise Tom · 13-06-2011 06:25PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

Agree with that, if he'd left a bit earlier maybe Fitzgerald wouldnt have gottne the job!

The biggest problem we might have is that we hold onto our coachs/managers a bit too long, even if they are successful. I think there is a risk that players get so used to the one voice the whole time that there is a chance they get a bit fed up in their play and need someone new every few years 3 or 4 or else there is need for a radical shake up, the way the likes of Ferguson or Wenger do things in soccer. Cody seems to be the exception to the rule. What ever he has he is able to keep hold of players the likes of Sheflin, Walsh etc and still keep them and everyone happy.

Cake Man · 13-06-2011 06:41PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

Interviewed on WLR afterwards he was injured. Was he on the programme yesterday? Was Ringo on the programme? Did he warm up at any stage?

Ringo was warming up anyway, fitness wise I'd say he's not 100% just yet. Anyone see Philip Mahony come out before the teams came out and did what looked like a late fitness test? He seemed to walk back into the dressing room a few mins later and looked like he was injured the way he was walking gingerly.

KevIRL · 13-06-2011 07:04PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

The biggest problem we might have is that we hold onto our coachs/managers a bit too long, even if they are successful. I think there is a risk that players get so used to the one voice the whole time that there is a chance they get a bit fed up in their play and need someone new every few years 3 or 4 or else there is need for a radical shake up, the way the likes of Ferguson or Wenger do things in soccer. Cody seems to be the exception to the rule. What ever he has he is able to keep hold of players the likes of Sheflin, Walsh etc and still keep them and everyone happy.

Hang on Tom. You want to ignore the example of the most successful side of the modern era and change managers within a 4 year period? Thats bonkers surely? No need to change managers just for the sake of it imo.

Also you give the example of Wenger and Ferguson who have been both around a lot longer than 4 years, Ferguson with a lot of success. Ferguson in particular has changed the team and is not a slave to player reputation.

Its a bit ironic also that the guy who manages at the moment whom you dislike so much has been bringing about a pretty radical shake up in playing staff.

No need for change just for change sake I say.

Daysha · 13-06-2011 07:25PM

I think we should be happy that we've managed to find coaches who are willing to put in the huge commitment required year after year. Sheedy, O'Grady and Allen are just some of a massive pool of managers who quit on a high because they knew what kind of stress the job can put on you. And they all managed their native counties as well, Davy does 5 hours round-trips from Clare 2-3 times a week.

premierstone · 13-06-2011 07:46PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

While I'm as much an advocate of Shane playing full forward (was definetly saying it last year) he was getting no ball. The problem was that all clearances were landing on the half backline and were poor balls. Somebody needed to be getting on the ball somewhere between the halway line and our half back line and be driving the ball directly to Shane, other wise you could have him full back, it would be more use to you than what was happening yesterday.

I agree with yoyu where the problem was just dont agree with the solution Davy came up with, surely removing Maurice Shanahan earlier was hte logical change to make.

Mountainlad · 13-06-2011 08:01PM

That's one thing you have to admit, love him hate him, like him but think he could improve, you'd have to concede that he is very committed and fair play to him. I do think he lacks a bit of know how, and maybe over physical training as well. Limerick seemed faster to me yesterday in general.

Well, taking Shane Walsh out wouldn't be my solution either. I don't think they really did have a solution. Sure Maurice came out for Prender, but at the end of the day all you were gaining was a better airly threat but someone who was equally immobile. They have to bypass the half backlines. We're not strong in the half forward line, or at least aerialy, so we need to get it deeper and play it longer.

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2009-2011

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