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David Norris for President....would you vote for him?

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    Mark200 wrote: »
    Repeating the same thing over and over and refusing to acknowledge many posts that refute what you're saying, is not a discussion.

    Ad hominem attacks on me and my supposed "bigoted" reasoning is not a refutal and certainly is not a discussion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,616 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    sesna wrote: »
    Norris does not believe in an age of consent in this country. The line has to be drawn somewhere unless society wants 45 year old men having sex with 13 year old boys.
    sesna wrote: »
    Also, I wonder what percentage of Irish people advocate no age of consent

    Can the majority even define 'age of consent' in a rational way? In a way which makes the laws surrounding it more effective in dissuading actual abuse? In a way that doesn't just rely on what is already written in some dusty old statute book?

    The law as it stands doesn't protect anyone from abuse.. those who abuse do so regardless of age of consent laws. All the law (as it stands today) does, is make everyone feel better about living in a world where abuse exists.

    You make it sound as if Norris is giving the nod to the abuse of minors.. that says more about yourself than him.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Quoted by Mark200
    I'm getting sick of your posts at this stage. At first I just assumed you had ridiculous beliefs, but it's clear that you're just repeating the same thing over and over and closing your eyes to any posts that explain how or why you're wrong.

    I feel like I'm talking to a badly designed computer program that has been programmed to write the same thing over and over and engage in a debate at the level of a 5 year old.

    Yep, its repetitive and daft at this stage.
    One person just does NOT want to hear the FULL truth.
    Only the twisted version of it.

    sesna wrote: »
    Hating David Norris? :pac:

    Engaging in discussion in a thread stuffed with Norris supporters, and expressing concern because of his advocacy of removal of the age of consent does not make one a troll. Children would be preyed upon by paedophiles without an age of consent.
    ...And here we go again, still posting the same crap yet again - even after being correctly being it pointed out to you a number of times where your thinking/opinion is skewered.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    Can the majority even define 'age of consent' in a rational way? In a way which makes the laws surrounding it more effective in dissuading actual abuse? In a way that doesn't just rely on what is already written in some dusty old statute book?

    The law as it stands doesn't protect anyone from abuse.. those who abuse do so regardless of age of consent laws. All the law (as it stands today) does, is make everyone feel better about living in a world where abuse exists.

    You make it sound as if Norris is giving the nod to the abuse of minors.. that says more about yourself than him.

    The age of consent is 17 and is the minimum age at which a person is able to consent to sexual acts.

    Yes it does protect from abuse through acting as a deterrent and through prosecution of predators.

    According to the Daily Mail Norris does not believe in ANY age of consent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭RachaelVO


    sesna wrote: »
    Ad hominem attacks on me and my supposed "bigoted" reasoning is not a refutal and certainly is not a discussion.

    There's nothing supposed about them...

    You're just dull and boring, and going around the same ol same ol, I'm starting to wonder if you're related to Enoch Burke,

    So I'm following several other posters and give up... you're clearly so single minded that no matter how much more educated the reasoning against your bile is, you just keep on siding with the sensationalist sh1te.

    Seriously wish ya all the best and all, but you're the first on my ignore list, so there is no point in replying to this post, cos I wont see it and frankly I just don't care anymore, the roundabout you have this thread on is head wrecking!

    *SIGH*


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    sesna wrote: »
    ...According to the Daily Mail Norris does not believe in ANY age of consent.
    To state the obvious... there is the first problem!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    sesna wrote: »
    ...According to the Daily Mail...

    Historical day in AH - the first time this phrase was uttered seriously...

    This can't be real surely?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    sesna wrote: »
    According to the Daily Mail Norris does not believe in ANY age of consent.

    FYI, according to the Daily Mail the movie 'Kickass' also promoted pedophilia.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    Historical day in AH - the first time this phrase was uttered seriously...

    This can't be real surely?

    Im going by the headline. I'd have to read the interview to see the context. I suspect the headline has been sensationalised, but I wonder what the thrust of Norris's argument is. Certainly there can be debate around the age of consent and how the law unfairly criminalises males, but this quotation alone of "I do not believe in an age of consent" is interesting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    sesna wrote: »
    Im going by the headline. I'd have to read the interview to see the context. I suspect the headline has been sensationalised, but I wonder what the thrust of Norris's argument is. Certainly there can be debate around the age of consent, but this quotation alone of "I do not believe in an age of consent" is interesting.
    They talked about it on Vincent Browne. Vincent said that he was referring to the idea that a couple of teens just months under the age of consent shouldn't be treated like criminals or sex offenders. Sounds reasonable to me.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    You suspect its sensationalist yet you use it as an argumental battering ram? I'm sorry I don't understand?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    sesna wrote: »
    ...I'd be ineterested where this " no age of consent" quotation comes from though.
    Hang on a minute - in post 1280 you ALREADY stated:
    sesna wrote: »
    In the Magill article Norris advocated no age of consent, and now we see from an interview last month with the Daily Mail that he also advocated the same viewpoint....
    Is your memory now that bad that your forgetting your own supposed quotes and sources?

    Do you actually know what the hell your talking about because you come across as very confused!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    Biggins wrote: »
    Hang on a minute - in post 1280 you ALREADY stated:


    Is your memory now that bad that your forgetting your own supposed quotes and sources?

    Do you actually know what the hell your talking about because you come across as very confused!

    I know what I said, and I now wonder in what possible context in the Daily Mail interview does believe there should be "no age of consent". I suppose I will find out when I buy the paper in the morning.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    sesna wrote: »
    I wonder in what context in the Daily Mail interview he said he believes there should be "no age of consent". I suppose I will find out when I buy the paper in the morning.
    In fairness, its been explained by others here (besides TV) already as to the context.
    I (myself) would take their explanation any day over any Daily Mail article which to add, would no doubt the sensationalist yet again (surprise!) for the sake of creating a stink where there no real need for one!
    The Mail is the last place I would look for seeking something out in its true full context.

    Look at least to a more quality, reputable source - not this tabloid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    OK last warning to quit with the sniping at each other.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,395 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Anyone that reads a daily mail headline and forms an opinion based on that, shouldn't be allowed vote.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 opticalens


    Yes, I would vote for David Norris. Anyone who thinks that this is a guy who advocates paedophilia is seriously deluded. And no, I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread, just a few comments here and there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I would, but Higgins will prob get my vote this time.
    Michael D 4 prez!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Spread


    This thread is getting a bit like Master David's canvassing circus .......... long winded, full of ambiguities and a pain in the butt. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    I see Norris has written a letter on his site clarifying some of his views.
    Dear Supporter,

    Over the last number of days quotes, opinions and beliefs on a range of societal
    issues have been attributed to me, some correct and others grossly inaccurate.
    To combat any further confusion or interpretation of my position on these matters
    I have personally outlined below my opinions on the subjects raised.

    As the longest serving Senator of the State I fight on a daily basis for a better
    society for all, introducing legislation and structures to support the most
    vulnerable citizens of our country. My record is testament to my commitment in
    this area.

    With your continued support I will carry on my campaign to become President of
    Ireland, with even greater and renewed impetus, determination and strength; A
    President who will represent its people.

    Legalising Drugs

    Living in inner-city Dublin, I am acutely aware of the harmful affects that the
    drug culture has had on my community and wider society. The blunt instrument
    of criminalisation is not working because of the vast profits it generates for
    organised crime. No country can face this problem on its own. I believe that there
    needs to be a European led global response. Hard as it is to accept, my view is
    that the welfare of the community, including the victims of drug abuse may be
    better served by having access to quality controlled, legally prescribed drugs.

    What is your view on prostitution?

    My views and opinions on prostitution have always been directed towards the
    welfare and protection of the women involved and the introduction of whatever
    means necessary to ensure their safety and well-being.

    What is your view on incest?

    Incest is morally and medically wrong. It is dangerous and illegal and justifiably
    so.

    What is your view on abortion?

    The issue of abortion is always a sensitive, personal and emotive issue in our
    society. I believe that access to information and education is the true champion of
    reducing the instance of abortion. My hope is that both sides in this difficult moral
    debate will respect each other’s differences.

    The Catholic Church

    I have very many Catholic friends and as a devout Christian, I have the greatest
    respect for the commitment and faith shown by many people, the length and
    breath of the country. My criticisms are not aimed at the honest decent men
    and women of faith, who have played a significant role in the founding and
    development of our country, but rather with the Vatican as a political entity and
    institution and its interference in matters of state. Also as a gay man, I find the
    Pope’s teachings on homosexuality negative and ill-informed.

    Child Protection

    I abhor child abuse in all its forms: psychological, sexual or emotional. I have
    always campaigned for Children’s rights and was central in introducing the
    appointment of guardian ad litem (mandatory legal representation for children) to
    child protection cases in court to ensure that the rights of the child are properly
    represented. I have also spoken out strongly in the Seanad on the recent
    Roscommon Child abuse case and on all reports into child abuse. My record in
    this area speaks for itself.

    Cathal O’Searcaigh

    I have only met Cathal O’Searcaigh once on Wicklow St. in Dublin, I have no
    other connection or relationship to him. I am a strong believer in natural justice
    and if the allegations that were made in the documentary are true this is a matter
    for the authorities to investigate and if necessary to prosecute if a crime has been
    demonstrated. I feel that the trial by media that took place around this issue
    would have frustrated any proceedings and that a court of law was the place to
    have these discussions and not on afternoon chat shows.

    Age of consent

    In my view, the people best equipped to make these difficult moral and legal
    decisions are the judiciary. Legislation based on the principle of consent
    empowers the judiciary.
    Consent based on age, has resulted in many instances in the inappropriate
    criminal prosecution of minors.
    This is the approach that I would personally support.

    Pederasty

    Pederasty is a term describing sexual relations between an older and a younger
    man in ancient Greece. My experience as a young man in Dublin was that there
    were no social outlets for gay men. I was left in ignorance by society and didn’t
    consciously meet another gay male until I was in my 20s. The subject was
    surrounded by silence and fear. Then I read Plato’s symposium, in which there is
    a discussion about the nature of love. The greatest philosopher ever argued that
    physical love was the gateway to spiritual love, very movingly it concludes with
    the most beautiful young man in Athens, Alcibiades admitting that he has offered
    himself sexually to Socrates in return for sharing in Socrates’ wisdom. This text
    was preserved throughout the middle ages. I saw this enlightening approach and
    experience as a much more interesting and preferable introduction to sexuality
    than my own experience. That is my own personal opinion.

    Spectrum of justice

    As a legislator and a citizen, I have always upheld and supported the law. I
    believe in justice delivered proportionately, across the spectrum of the relevant
    crime. Sexual abuse is always wrong, but as in all crimes, there is a spectrum
    and this is appropriately recognised in sentencing policy and throughout Irish law.

    Media Reporting of Abuse

    My comments relating to the impact of media reporting on the victims of sex
    abuse being worse than the actual abuse have been misconstrued and have
    caused hurt, for which I am saddened. I have always spoken out on behalf of the
    victims of abuse and feel that anyone that has suffered any form of abuse, must
    report it to the authorities and the perpetrators should face the full rigours of the
    law. I would like to think that people would judge me on my track record on child
    protection and my political contribution in this area.

    Every candidate in every election has personal opinions, which they must set
    aside in order to fulfil their public duties and I intend to be no different and to
    reflect the broad opinions of a proud Irish nation.

    Senator David Norris
    9th June 2011


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    If Norris is nominated, he will not be getting a vote from me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 568 ✭✭✭iguy


    Yes I would.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Spread


    A bit of a whitewash, fence-sitting rejoinder from the pompous git which puts him firmly on the back foot.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Thanks phantom_lord for that letter.
    Sadly though, for some out there, its still will not be enough and say "...but.... but... a newspaper/magazine said this is what he said..." as they might have printed only what sells.
    Controversy and a possible short twisted version!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    When is the election anyway?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Confab wrote: »
    When is the election anyway?
    The last of the nominations has not been collected yet so the actual date cannot be announced.
    Up to 60 days after the last nomination, that is when the election must take place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    If he does not get nominated it is a victory for the Catholic Far Right in this country,very dark forces which i thought had gone away after the abuse scandals.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    There is no way david norris will get to the president's office now,imo.

    Just listening to him on the radio, He didn't sound to well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    If he does not get nominated it is a victory for the Catholic Far Right in this country,very dark forces which i thought had gone away after the abuse scandals.




    I am not from the catholic anything,But I was a bit disturbed to be listening and reading articles supposedly from david norris,and it has so far changed my voting intentions for him.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    I'm not voting for Norris, but mainly because I'd prefer us to have a president with a real international standing, a reputation as a negotiator and mediator. Norris is a nobody in international terms.


This discussion has been closed.
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