David Norris for President....would you vote for him?

mike65 · 31-05-2011 09:48AM

She might well decide its safer for her that the tapes are not found.

Laois_Man · 31-05-2011 10:16AM

Only read the first page. Is it one of those things where if you don't want to vote ofr the gay guy, you're automatically a homophobic?

Until recently, I was saying I had no intention of voting for anyone in the useless exercie that is the Irish Presidential election.

Afetr the recent vistis of the Queen and the US Prez, and the performance of McAleese in those visits, I can see SOME importance in the office (Although I still don't particularly find it to be good value for money)

But I will vote, and of the candidates mentioned so far, I think I would likely vote for Mairead McGuinness. Keeping an open mind though!

Mark200 · 31-05-2011 10:19AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Either way his campaign is in trouble. His interview and back-tracking on P.K. will not get him out of trouble. He need to debate the issue face to face with H.L.B. on t.v. and then people will make up their minds.

What backtracking did he do? I didn't notice any

phantom_lord · 31-05-2011 10:22AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Either way his campaign is in trouble. His interview and back-tracking on P.K. will not get him out of trouble. He need to debate the issue face to
face with H.L.B. on t.v. and then people will make up their minds.

Seems like you've already got your mind made up.

oceanclub · 31-05-2011 10:31AM

I think Helen Lucy Burke's bona fides can be clearly shown by the fact that on Liveline she insinuated that a European delegation investigating the trafficking of women and children in Thailand, in which Norris took part, was a "holiday in Thailand". And we all know what that's code for, right?

http://www.senatordavidnorris.ie/1newsletter.htm#thai

P.

apoeiguq3094y · 31-05-2011 11:29AM

Paparazzo wrote: »

Did you even read that link?

So, you're against democracy then?

Yes I read the article, did you? He was speaking about the benefits of joining the commonwealth, at a book launch for a book that was about Ireland joining the commonwealth, so I think we can make the leap that he's in favour of us joining.

alexjk wrote: »

It wouldn't make the Queen of the United Kingdom head of state in the Republic of Ireland which is what you seem to be implying.

Thats not what I was implying. I said she was the leader of an organisation that consisted of member states. Similar to the EU or BRIC or any other grouping of countries. By point is that she has that position by birth, not because of any democratic process.

phantom_lord wrote: »

Did you read the quotes from him or just the headline? He never said he wanted Ireland to rejoin the commonwealth.

While the article didn't quote him exactly saying that, as I said above its not unreasonable to take that message from his speech and presence at the book launch. He's entitled to his opinion, and I'm entitled to disagree with him.

Nodin · 31-05-2011 11:38AM

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Robinson used the office to reflect and legitimise the public appetite for a shift away from a repressive and pervasive conservatism, which had stunted the cultural, social and economic progress of the State. She performed her duties with skill, intelligence and courage, she ruffled feathers, broke new ground and redefined the role for the better.

She swapped one form of elitism for another.

francois · 31-05-2011 11:41AM

Cheap and utterly blatant attempt at a smear

Laois_Man · 31-05-2011 11:53AM

Taken from: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0531/norrisd.html

Ms Burke said she has found a cassette tape, which she believes is the recording of the interview but does not have a machine to play it back on.

She doesn't have a cassette player? :eek:

Pherekydes · 31-05-2011 11:55AM

mike65 wrote: »

She might well decide its safer for her that the tapes are not found.

She was already prevaricating yesterday, saying the tapes might not work after such a lapse of time. Joe shut her up though...

Nodin · 31-05-2011 11:58AM

Laois_Man wrote: »

Taken from: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0531/norrisd.html

She doesn't have a cassette player? :eek:

O I'm sure somebody will provide one forthwith. Hopefully they'll do a transfer to a digital medium while standing over it as well.

hinault · 31-05-2011 11:59AM

Norris seems to be a principled bloke when it comes to issues of national/international injustice.

But unfortunately his private views have now been reported and those expressed views strike me as being deeply immoral and at variance to the moral stance that he takes in relation to more public issues.

I probably would have voted for him but his reported comments have led me to change my mind.

phantom_lord · 31-05-2011 12:04PM

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Yes I read the article, did you? He was speaking about the benefits of joining the commonwealth, at a book launch for a book that was about Ireland joining the commonwealth, so I think we can make the leap that he's in favour of us joining.

Thats not what I was implying. I said she was the leader of an organisation that consisted of member states. Similar to the EU or BRIC or any other grouping of countries. By point is that she has that position by birth, not because of any democratic process.

While the article didn't quote him exactly saying that, as I said above its not unreasonable to take that message from his speech and presence at the book launch. He's entitled to his opinion, and I'm entitled to disagree with him.

There's a reason the article doesn't quote him to back up the headline. It's because he's not in favor of rejoining the commonwealth and has said so explicitly when asked about it.

phantom_lord · 31-05-2011 12:08PM

hinault wrote: »

Norris seems to be a principled bloke when it comes to issues of national/international injustice.

But unfortunately his private views have now been reported and those expressed views strike me as being deeply immoral and at variance to the moral stance that he takes in relation to more public issues.

I probably would have voted for him but his reported comments have led me to change my mind.

It's not his private views that have been reported, only a gross misrepresentation of his views.

Elle Collins · 31-05-2011 12:14PM

mike65 wrote: »

You can see why Norris got into bother, whatever about HLB and her editorialising he needs to cut out the "freeform musing" as thats whats gets him in trouble.

"Freeform musing", is that what it's called now, when adults make comments that support sex between adults and adolescents? :rolleyes:

That pervy old fool would have been hung out to dry a long time ago had he been a heterosexual man "freeform musing" about grown men having sex with adolescent girls.

zuroph · 31-05-2011 12:36PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Either way his campaign is in trouble. His interview and back-tracking on P.K. will not get him out of trouble. He need to debate the issue face to face with H.L.B. on t.v. and then people will make up their minds.

care to bet on it? You had your mind up before the PK interview this morning.

zuroph · 31-05-2011 12:38PM

Elle Collins wrote: »

"Freeform musing", is that what it's called now, when adults make comments that support sex between adults and adolescents? :rolleyes:

That pervy old fool would have been hung out to dry a long time ago had he been a heterosexual man "freeform musing" about grown men having sex with adolescent girls.

which comments specifically are these? Or have you read the articles and retorts?

Ms.Odgeynist · 31-05-2011 12:39PM

Elle Collins wrote: »

"Freeform musing", is that what it's called now, when adults make comments that support sex between adults and adolescents? :rolleyes:

Which comments were they?

That pervy old fool would have been hung out to dry a long time ago had he been a heterosexual man "freeform musing" about grown men having sex with adolescent girls.

He never advocated or supported any such thing.
Pervy old fool??
The man is a celebrated academic, who is respected all over the world.

Pherekydes · 31-05-2011 12:42PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Either way his campaign is in trouble. His interview and back-tracking on P.K. will not get him out of trouble. He need to debate the issue face to face with H.L.B. on t.v. and then people will make up their minds.

There is nothing to debate. What he said is not in question. Her interpretation of is what's in question. She is wrong. Simple. His interpretation is correct, by definition. They are HIS words. She took him up wrongly, or she is wilfully misrepresenting his opinions. Personally, I think it's the latter.

You can't tell someone else what THEIR opinion is.

Badgermonkey · 31-05-2011 12:47PM

Nodin wrote: »

She swapped one form of elitism for another.

The above could be construed in more than one way but I presume you mean the marked shift from a conservative to liberal hegemony post 1990.

If so, you can hardly blame Robinson for that. It was only natural that such a move towards policies which gave voice to a more progressive and pluralist society would leave some feeling disenfranchised.

The resultant benefits to citizens in areas of health, equality, human rights and law reform have been EU driven though have been broadly reflective of the wishes of the majority of people.

ascanbe · 31-05-2011 12:47PM

'Young fellas running around in shorts: that's the kind of thing you like. Except you're probably imagining what they look like without shorts. You're sitting there, imagining that, with a big smile on your face...ya dirty fecker.'

conorhal · 31-05-2011 12:48PM

Elle Collins wrote: »

"Freeform musing", is that what it's called now, when adults make comments that support sex between adults and adolescents? :rolleyes:

That pervy old fool would have been hung out to dry a long time ago had he been a heterosexual man "freeform musing" about grown men having sex with adolescent girls.

Indeed, by Norris' standards 'ol Berlusconi should be re-elected with a pat on the back in two years time.

Nodin · 31-05-2011 12:55PM

Badgermonkey wrote: »

The above could be construed in more than one way but I presume you mean the marked shift from a conservative to liberal hegemony post 1990.
.

No, I mean a narrow view of "inclusivity" that was based on the world via the lens of Mary.

Badgermonkey wrote: »

If so, you can hardly blame Robinson for that. It was only natural that such a move towards policies which gave voice to a more progressive and pluralist society would leave some feeling disenfranchised..

"progressive" my arse. Conservatism with a smattering of social liberalism.

holystungun9 · 31-05-2011 12:57PM

Yes

Badgermonkey · 31-05-2011 01:10PM

Nodin wrote: »

"progressive" my arse.

David Quinns new tatoo?

Spread · 31-05-2011 01:18PM

"I cannot understand how anybody could find children of either sex in the slightest bit attractive sexually. . . but in terms of classic paedophilia, as practised by the Greeks, for example, where it is an older man introducing a younger man to adult life, there can be something said for it. Now, again, this is not something that appeals to me".
"Although when I was younger I would have greatly relished the prospect of an older, attractive, mature man taking me under his wing, lovingly introducing me to sexual realities, treating me with affection, teaching me about life." (Irish Indo 31 May 2011)

If it's not his thing how can he say "there can be something in it"?
In the second half ........ surely the older man would be regarded as "predatory"

Deckof52 · 31-05-2011 01:48PM

dizzywizlw wrote: »

You listed 4 out 196 sovereign states, which are very progressive, Germany being a good model for acceptance, when discounting the Turkish minority .

As a sample of heads of state (I'm not sure any of those you listed are heads of state, function versus political form is important for this role I think) its not particularly great. Barely any notable number of states have given the LGBT community the fundamental right to civil partnership whilst roughly a third of countries still have homosexuality as a crime on their statue books. My main point is and always will be, that to vote for Norris because of his sexuality is misguided, to vote against him because of it is ignorant.

He'd be a useless President; irreverant, elitist, euro-skeptic. He has never held political office of note (yes I count the seanad as useless) and he is very much the stereotype of comsmopolitian elitism. The man studied literature for Christs sake.

On my first point I was just showing that there have been lgbt people in significant countries that have had international obligations and there haven't been any backlash stories in the press. I wasn't talking about how progressive we are but how the world has to accept certain diplomatic realities.
I agree with the idea that to, "vote for Norris because of his sexuality is misguided, to vote against him because of it is ignorant.". But I was just explaining some of the effects or worries of his sexualities that were raised during the debate.

I think the idea of being elitist means that you believe yourself to be of a higher stature and you separate yourself from those of a lower stature. I cant see how David Norris has done this in any respect. A man who actively fights and helps Gay Rights, Disabled Rights and fights for cultural preservation in the form of Dublin City Parks, Joycean Awareness and Georgian Housing. I think if you 't can't see the idea of having some form of cultural intelligence and the presidency being linked, then the ceremonial nature of the office isn't fully understood.

zuroph · 31-05-2011 01:51PM

Spread wrote: »

"I cannot understand how anybody could find children of either sex in the slightest bit attractive sexually. . . but in terms of classic paedophilia, as practised by the Greeks, for example, where it is an older man introducing a younger man to adult life, there can be something said for it. Now, again, this is not something that appeals to me".
"Although when I was younger I would have greatly relished the prospect of an older, attractive, mature man taking me under his wing, lovingly introducing me to sexual realities, treating me with affection, teaching me about life." (Irish Indo 31 May 2011)

If it's not his thing how can he say "there can be something in it"?
In the second half ........ surely the older man would be regarded as "predatory"

and at the start of that sentence, which is seperated by quotation marks, he says "although" which would suggest the sentence is in contrast to something else he said, or how he feels now.

context is important.

Spread · 31-05-2011 02:16PM

zuroph wrote: »

and at the start of that sentence, which is seperated by quotation marks, he says "although" which would suggest the sentence is in contrast to something else he said, or how he feels now.

context is important.

zuroph, I agree wholeheartedly. But if you have a gander at the story in today's Indo, you'll see an anomoly within the many inverted commas in the extract that I quoted.

tayto lover · 31-05-2011 02:39PM

zuroph wrote: »

care to bet on it? You had your mind up before the PK interview this morning.

I had my mind made up not to vote for him a long time ago, even before the programme yesterday. Whether he is guilty or not i don't know. That is why there should be a debate between them on t.v. or radio.
You seem to have you're mind made up about H.L.B. on the issue. Maybe she is telling the truth.

David Norris for President....would you vote for him?

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