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It's official: Gardai are above the law.

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Comments

  • #182
    GalwayKiefer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭GalwayKiefer


    Seeing as it's now a non-custodial sentence, does anyone know if he stands a better chance of keeping his job? Or is it a case of serious conviction = goodbye?


  • #183
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    My apologies for not immediatly critising every Garda that crosses my path.

    Look I'm not defending what this Garda did. I just think people are more worked up about the fact that he's a Garda and got off because of it than about what he did or the fact that such a sentence has the potential to be suspended.

    The case was re-entered without substantial evidence to counter the original conviction judgement just a day after the "formal" conviction was handed down. That speaks highly of the system, does it not?


  • #184
    Viper_JB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Viper_JB


    GalKiefer wrote: »
    Seeing as it's now a non-custodial sentence, does anyone know if he stands a better chance of keeping his job? Or is it a case of serious conviction = goodbye?

    He'll never work with the gardai again, it's either taxi driver or bouncer ;) from here on out.


  • #185
    Jesus Wept
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    I overheard this case on the news yesterday and thought perhaps he'd get a harsher than average sentence, considering that if you commit a crime against a guard (even off duty), you get a heftier sentence.

    Country is sickening tbh, they aren't even subtle about how crooked they are.


  • #186
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    prinz wrote: »
    You realise that gardaí sentenced to prison time are kicked out yeah? Hence ex- . I'd quit while I was behind if I was you.

    So, would you want a criminal or thug in the Gardai? Also a Garda becomes ex after he is dismissed and the Garda today is still a Garda until he is officially sacked and only then. This little provision in the Law then would not probably apply then. Hope that is clear for you.


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  • #187
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    prinz wrote: »
    I have been stopped. It's never been a bad experience. Simple, be polite, be straightforward, be honest... and before you know it you're on your way and they are on theirs.

    thats what we all do man. We all know the procedure.

    But in this one example, why should I be stopped? fair enough if someone is suspicious .. like hanging around an apartment with a crowbar :pac: they do have a job.

    But if i'm walking down the street minding my own business, gardai car comes speeding to me (which usually happens when stopped late at night) and they give me the whole twenty questions, trying to suss me out, and lets be honest trying to intimidate me ... is that really on?


  • #188
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Naikon wrote: »
    The case was re-entered without substantial evidence to counter the original conviction judgement just a day after the "formal" conviction was handed down. That speaks highly of the system, does it not?

    No of course withholding evidence does not speak highly of anyone or anything.


  • #189
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Ah, nothing brings out the one eyed, tunnel vision like a good old fashioned Garda bashing/defending thread. Giving people a forum to voice their agenda and shout their biased opinions since 1998.


  • #190
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    thats what we all do man. We all know the procedure.

    But in this one example, why should I be stopped? fair enough if someone is suspicious .. like hanging around an apartment with a crowbar :pac: they do have a job.

    But if i'm walking down the street minding my own business, gardai car comes speeding to me (which usually happens when stopped late at night) and they give me the whole twenty questions, trying to suss me out, and lets be honest trying to intimidate me ... is that really on?

    There could be any number of reasons for them to stop and it makes no sense to kick up a fuss unless you want to cause problems. Just be polite and co-operate and you'll have no hassle.

    They be looking for some-one, investigating a local incident, trying to see if you are lucid etc.


  • #191
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Havent read the whole thread but has he been at least dismissed from the Gardai?


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  • #192
    Fremen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Fremen


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    My apologies for not immediatly critising every Garda that crosses my path.

    Well, that's a strawman if I ever saw one.
    I just think people are more worked up about the fact that he's a Garda and got off because of it than about what he did...

    That's the whole point of this thread. It's the fact that he got off because he's a guard.


  • #193
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    So, would you want a criminal or thug in the Gardai? Also a Garda becomes ex after he is dismissed and the Garda today is still a Garda until he is officially sacked and only then. This little provision in the Law then would not probably apply then. Hope that is clear for you.

    Actually it still would apply depending on how long the person served for and how long previous to conviction they were sacked/quit. By the by the exact same provisions apply to prison officers, yet that jas hardly been mentioned on the thread at all.
    LighterGuy wrote: »
    But if i'm walking down the street minding my own business, gardai car comes speeding to me (which usually happens when stopped late at night) and they give me the whole twenty questions, trying to suss me out, and lets be honest trying to intimidate me ... is that really on?

    Yes it is. I have been there. Got stopped walking between two houses on the same road about 50 metres apart. Had a chat, no problems, asked why they stopped me it was because they had just gotten a call from a house around the corner about a prowler/attempted burglar and I pretty much matched the description. Absolutely fair, they were driving around the area looking for people who matched. Now if I had asked and they didn't tell me, I could assume they were throwing their weight around or just trying to intimidate me, but I'd be very wrong. It's very easy to jump to conclusions and be completely wrong.


  • #194
    Hunter Mahan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 655 ✭✭✭Hunter Mahan


    It's the same old key board warriors every time someone sets up a Garda bashing thread expressing their outrage and shock, screaming inequality, injustice and corruption. Do ye not get bored? Have ye no other interests in life?

    There's no justification for what happened and their should be and will be serious repercussions for the man who pleaded guilty to a terrible crime, but grow up and give the thread it's proper title -

    What kind of judicial system do we have?

    Then go on to discuss how it is normal for people who commit such crimes to get suspended sentences and what a disgrace our judicial system is at times.

    But then if you take Garda out of the thread title then you could divide the number of responses by 3, and people like wolfey would miss an opportunity to push their agenda..


  • #195
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,392 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Did you read the report? He got the extra 6 months suspended specifically because he was a copper!
    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Does ordinary joe get his sentence suspended on the grounds that he is a garda? Didn't think so. Ordinary joe would be doing 6 months.
    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    NO HE DIDN'T


    He got 18 months with 12 suspended. THATS what everyone else would get.

    Because he is an all conquering Garda he got the extra six suspended the next day. Solely because he is a Garda.
    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Seriously read that report.

    He got 6 months in jail with 12 suspended. When it was pointed out that he was a garda the next day, solely for this reason, he got that six months suspended. If he was not a garda he would be in jail, simple as.

    I agree about the system being a joke btw.
    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Lets get this straight...


    He was given a six month custodial sentence with 12 suspended.


    He went back the next day and got the 6 suspended because he was a garda.


    If he was not a garda he would be in jail in this case.
    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Jesus tap dancing christ


    Can you see that he got the 6 months suspended solely because he is a garda?

    I agree that Gardaí should not be given any mitigation when they commit a crime but if you read between the lines here I'm pretty sure that you'll see that the judge only used that 'mitigation' clause to highlight its existence imo. We've already seen there are many, many ordinary joes (violent scumbags) who get their ENTIRE sentence suspended not just 12 months suspended and then the rest because of their career choice. It's not a case that all of these 'ordinary Joes' get only a part of their sentence suspended. No matter how much you like to think it is.

    However, I'm sure that won't stop you pushing your anti-'FREE STATE' guardian agenda. Carry on.


  • #196
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    Would you have posted this if he wasn't a copper
    i would have


  • #197
    LighterGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    prinz wrote: »
    Yes it is. I have been there. Got stopped walking between two houses on the same road about 50 metres apart. Had a chat, no problems, asked why they stopped me it was because they had just gotten a call from a house around the corner about a prowler/attempted burglar and I pretty much matched the description. Absolutely fair, they were driving around the area looking for people who matched. Now if I had asked and they didn't tell me, I could assume they were throwing their weight around or just trying to intimidate me, but I'd be very wrong. It's very easy to jump to conclusions and be completely wrong.

    in your case the gardai said you matched someone. fair enough.
    but thats just one case.

    gardai randomly stop people. without reason (reason as in you are not up to anything or you 'fit the description' in your case)
    Like, no one is saying give them loads if they stop you... but surely you must agree its annoying and not on to randomly stop normal people like ourselves without reason. Or is the reason just because they can?


  • #198
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,392 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    r3nu4l wrote: »
    However, I'm sure that won't stop you pushing your anti-'FREE STATE' guardian agenda. Carry on.
    I'm going to retract this bit, it's unfair. Apologies Wolfe Tone.


  • #199
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0527/foleyd.html

    The Garda who was sentenced yesterday for assault has had the sentence suspended.

    Congrats to the Ombudsman for pursuing the case, but can I ask what the point is in having such organizations if the courts are simply going to overrule them?



    This is an absolutely DISGRACEFUL statement. Are we not all equal in this society? I'm utterly outraged. :(

    You are talking thru your arse buddy and don't understand the LEGALITIES of the case.

    Justice has to be fair, and a cop going into prison will suffer more that the ordinary Joe Scumbag who goes in and out like a revolving door.

    So why should one particular person be vilified for a particular act(reprehensible though it may be) and another get almost hero status.

    That's the judgement the judge had to make.


    Try and learn a bit about equalities and fairness before your bang your keyboard buddy.


  • #200
    Show Time
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    My apologies for not immediatly critising every Garda that crosses my path.

    Look I'm not defending what this Garda did. I just think people are more worked up about the fact that he's a Garda and got off because of it than about what he did or the fact that such a sentence has the potential to be suspended.
    It's because he holds a position of authority that had people upset and worked up.
    This yahoo is meant to protect the public and prevent trouble not go around knocking people's teeth out and leaving them half dead on the ground over a comment about a jumper being a gay colour.


  • #201
    davetherave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭davetherave


    Laois woman gets suspended sentence for manslaughter of husband


    Boxer gets suspended sentence for unprovoked assault.


    Man gets suspended sentence for stabbing Polish couple


    Where was the AH outrage bus when these happened?? Or does it only rear it's head when a Garda is involved????


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  • #202
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    davetherave wrote: »
    Laois woman gets suspended sentence for manslaughter of husband


    Boxer gets suspended sentence for unprovoked assault.


    Man gets suspended sentence for stabbing Polish couple


    Where was the AH outrage bus when these happened?? Or does it only rear it's head when a Garda is involved????


    yes it does, that's the type we have in here.

    Don't follow through to the full story.


    Anything to 'sock it to the man' will do for these lads;)


  • #203
    jonsnow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    You are talking thru your arse buddy and don't understand the LEGALITIES of the case.

    Justice has to be fair, and a cop going into prison will suffer more that the ordinary Joe Scumbag who goes in and out like a revolving door.

    So why should one particular person be vilified for a particular act(reprehensible though it may be) and another get almost hero status.

    That's the judgement the judge had to make.


    Try and learn a bit about equalities and fairness before your bang your keyboard buddy.

    No you are talking through your arse kiddo.Now if the guard had been given a suspended sentence from the outset I personally would not have had a problem with that.Yes it was a horrific dangerous assault and the victim could have been killed.But the victim didn,t want the guy to go to jail,he was remorseful and he probably isn,t a bad guy.

    But if he was left off on the mitigating factor that he would suffer more in prison then that is disgraceful.I don,t know if that legal decision is based on statute or case law but either way it is crazy.It is literally a "get out of jail free card" for bent cops and prison wardens.We live in a republic(in theory anyway) and everyone should be treated equally.If the gardai scumbags who are sent to prison are in more danger than "ordinary Joe Scumbags" then systems should be put in place to ensure their safety - they shouldn,t just be let off the hook.Its done all the time for paedophiles and feuding gangsters.

    Its obscene how reluctant we are in this country to send certain types of people to prison.In america police officers and prison guards who break the law are routinely sent to prison.David Norris of the wire fame was a very successful and high profile police Chief who was sent to prison for fiddling his expenses.There are a lot of problems with the US justice system but at least they are prepared to send anyone to jail whether a cop or the guy running the IMF.I can,t believe that this "let him off because hes a guard" is not only being carried out but is actually a point of law.It is not equal and it is not fair.


  • #204
    tfitzgerald
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭tfitzgerald


    I would love to know what the rest of the Garda think because this thug is giving them a bad name. The judge should not have reversed his sentence it looks like as if someone had a word with him overnight also what happens to the Garda now is he suspended or fired or promoted and moved to a new station


  • #205
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    So let me get this right, a Gardai damn near kills a man and escapes punishment because 'he'll have a tough time in jail'?

    He SHOULD have a tough time in jail, the victim suffered "a broken nose, fractures to his cheekbones, broken teeth and bleeding to the brain." Someone who's capable of inflicting such injuries over such a minor slight is a danger to the public and should be locked up.


  • #206
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    jonsnow wrote: »
    No you are talking through your arse kiddo.Now if the guard had been given a suspended sentence from the outset I personally would not have had a problem with that.Yes it was a horrific dangerous assault and the victim could have been killed.But the victim didn,t want the guy to go to jail,he was remorseful and he probably isn,t a bad guy.

    But if he was left off on the mitigating factor that he would suffer more in prison then that is disgraceful.I don,t know if that legal decision is based on statute or case law but either way it is crazy.It is literally a "get out of jail free card" for bent cops and prison wardens.We live in a republic(in theory anyway) and everyone should be treated equally.If the gardai scumbags who are sent to prison are in more danger than "ordinary Joe Scumbags" then systems should be put in place to ensure their safety - they shouldn,t just be let off the hook.Its done all the time for paedophiles and feuding gangsters.

    Its obscene how reluctant we are in this country to send certain types of people to prison.In america police officers and prison guards who break the law are routinely sent to prison.David Norris of the wire fame was a very successful and high profile police Chief who was sent to prison for fiddling his expenses.There are a lot of problems with the US justice system but at least they are prepared to send anyone to jail whether a cop or the guy running the IMF.I can,t believe that this "let him off because hes a guard" is not only being carried out but is actually a point of law.It is not equal and it is not fair.

    So!

    You are tell me I am talking through my arse for explaining the judges decision to you?

    For telling you what is actually the law.:eek:

    The fact that you disagree with it is the all important factor here isn't it?

    I'd shift myself out of this thread before I begin to look foolish, if I were you.


    Nothing personal mind.


  • #207
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    tfitzgerald wrote: »
    I would love to know what the rest of the Garda think because this thug is giving them a bad name. The judge should not have reversed his sentence it looks like as if someone had a word with him overnight also what happens to the Garda now is he suspended or fired or promoted and moved to a new station

    Well you won't find out about it most likely because they won't talk about it - won't even let you talk about it - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056280634


  • #208
    jonsnow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    davetherave wrote: »
    Laois woman gets suspended sentence for manslaughter of husband


    Boxer gets suspended sentence for unprovoked assault.


    Man gets suspended sentence for stabbing Polish couple


    Where was the AH outrage bus when these happened?? Or does it only rear it's head when a Garda is involved????

    I don,t think most people on this thread are outraged that dean foley got a suspended sentence(although some obviously are) but are outraged about the LEGALITIES which gained him the suspended sentence ie.that as a garda he would suffer worse in prison than a regular citizen.


  • #209
    J K
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 468 ✭✭J K


    It's more likely the final days were choreographed to give the defendant a well deserved scare. I think he spent a few weeks in jail and then the deliberations on sentence drew out to a few sleepless nights.

    The Judge would have formed a broad view during the case of whether there would be a custodial sentence or jail time.

    Remember he will be sacked and also likely sued for damages by the other innocent man who lost the fight.


  • #210
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    jonsnow wrote: »
    I don,t think most people on this thread are outraged that dean foley got a suspended sentence(although some obviously are) but are outraged about the LEGALITIES which gained him the suspended sentence ie.that as a garda he would suffer worse in prison than a regular citizen.

    And what is wrong with that concept?


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  • #211
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    r3nu4l wrote: »
    I'm going to retract this bit, it's unfair. Apologies Wolfe Tone.

    Is not a case of me not liking AGS, I have an objection to the very cozy relationship between the judiciary and the gardaí.


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