It's official: Gardai are above the law.

hatrickpatrick

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0527/foleyd.html

The Garda who was sentenced yesterday for assault has had the sentence suspended.

Congrats to the Ombudsman for pursuing the case, but can I ask what the point is in having such organizations if the courts are simply going to overrule them?

Today, Mr Foley's Defence Counsel Donal O'Sullivan told the court that he had failed to mention yesterday a principal in law which accepted that some mitigation in sentencing is granted to former guards and prison officers because they were likely to suffer more in prison.

This is an absolutely DISGRACEFUL statement. Are we not all equal in this society? I'm utterly outraged.

CatFromHue

how many people who are convicted of similar offences get suspended sentences?

Biggins

...Cue "All Gardi are bad and evil" thread...

Napper Hawkins

Are you surprised?

DrumSteve

Would you have posted this if he wasn't a copper

Minstrel27

What bull****. There should be no favourtism for anybody.

Wolfe Tone

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is an absolutely DISGRACEFUL statement. Are we not all equal in this society? I'm utterly outraged.

Unfortunately I'm not even surprised.


Ordinary joe does it he gets jailed, Garda does it he walks free. Just the way it is.

Bannasidhe

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0527/foleyd.html

The Garda who was sentenced yesterday for assault has had the sentence suspended.

Congrats to the Ombudsman for pursuing the case, but can I ask what the point is in having such organizations if the courts are simply going to overrule them?



This is an absolutely DISGRACEFUL statement. Are we not all equal in this society? I'm utterly outraged.

I share your rage. The reasoning behind a non-custodial sentence was that Gardaí suffer 'more' while in prison and have to be segregated from the main prison population. Gardaí are also tasked with enforcing and up-holding the law. If they break the law they should suffer the consequences!

Logical Fallacy

DrumSteve wrote: »

Would you have posted this if he wasn't a copper

I reckon the title would have been a little different.

Wolfe Tone

DrumSteve wrote: »

Would you have posted this if he wasn't a copper

If he was not a copper he would be in jail.

prinz

Yup, because no non-coppers have ever gotten suspended sentences for that kind of thing.

AudreyHepburn

He wouldn't be the only criminal in the country to walk away scot free. How many times do you hear of gang members with 20,30.40 serious convictions still on the streets.

His career is irrelevant, the crime took place when he was off duty.

Can we please get over the Garda-bashing crap, it gets tedious.

humanji

Well it makes sense to not throw a garda into a prison with the people they helped put away. Just take a look at the documentary "Tango & Cash" to see how it can end up.

AudreyHepburn

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

If he was not a copper he would be in jail.

I highly doubt it tbh.

cursai

Most people with this kind of conviction walk free. especially if they have no previous. I'm more surprised he gave a sentence in the first place and not a fine and a suspension.
People shouldnt comment on things they know absolutely nothing about!!!

Biggins

I for one don't know the FULL evidence that was presented to the court.
While puzzled as to why the light sentence, I must acknowledge that I don't know the full picture (if there is one) and as from sentence to sentence, must judge each one accordingly as best I can - with equal fairness as if it was anyone else.

hatrickpatrick

Biggins wrote: »

...Cue "All Gardi are bad and evil" thread...

No.
I have the utmost respect for the gardai.
I simply believe that ALL legal adults without proven mental problems should be treated absolutely equally before the law. Man or woman, Christian or Muslim, black or white, European or American, priest or taxi driver, Garda or shopkeeper.

Such exceptions and inconsistencies are an absolute blot on civilized society. Equality should cover EVERYTHING.

Rew

Doubt he would have done more then a couple of days sue to over crowding anyway

prinz

humanji wrote: »

Well it makes sense to not throw a garda into a prison with the people they helped put away. Just take a look at the documentary "Tango & Cash" to see how it can end up.

Yup simple solution would be a mini prison in Templemore, sort of like an army stockade.

AudreyHepburn

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Unfortunately I'm not even surprised.


Ordinary joe does it he gets jailed, Garda does it he walks free. Just the way it is.

Not the way it is and you know it.

If you watched the recent Prime Time Investigation into the Taxi industry you would have heard there are rapists etc driving taxis across Dublin.

hatrickpatrick

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I share your rage. The reasoning behind a non-custodial sentence was that Gardaí suffer 'more' while in prison and have to be segregated from the main prison population. Gardaí are also tasked with enforcing and up-holding the law. If they break the law they should suffer the consequences!

This is the same BS argument which Ivana Bacik uses to insist that no woman should be put in prison.

If you don't want to suffer consequences then don't effing commit a crime.

Napper Hawkins

In fairness, he shouldn't be put in with the violent offenders as he'd be killed.

But he should definitely be locked up all the same.

Wolfe Tone

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I highly doubt it tbh.

Did you read the report? He got the extra 6 months suspended specifically because he was a copper!

Wile E. Coyote

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is an absolutely DISGRACEFUL statement. Are we not all equal in this society? I'm utterly outraged.

Yes we are all equal and unfortunately this is the same sentance that would have been handed down to anyone else in a similar situation.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/courts/boxers-brutal-attack-in-nightclubs-toilet-2577094.html

TheZohanS

humanji wrote: »

Well it makes sense to not throw a garda into a prison with the people they helped put away. Just take a look at the documentary "Tango & Cash" to see how it can end up.

Or to a lesser extent the arthouse documentary "Banged up the Bangkok".

prinz

Biggins wrote: »

While puzzled as to why the light sentence...

One of the reasons was that the victim made clear to the court that he wasn't seeking prison time for the guilty party. He felt loss of job, suspended sentence and compensation would have been adequate AFAIK.

Mr Jinx

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/boxer-gets-suspended-sentence-for-unprovoked-assault-496478.html

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/37978/suspended-sentence-for-st-patricks-day-assault-on-bouncer

http://www.galwaynews.ie/9184-suspended-sentence-loughrea-resident-who-assaulted-social-welfare-officer

http://www.clarepeople.com/wordp5/20091001722/two-year-suspended-sentence-for-pub-assault/

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1027/mcardled.html

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5010&Itemid=76

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0706/1224274101692.html

AudreyHepburn

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Did you read the report? He got the extra 6 months suspended specifically because he was a copper!

Link?

I find that hard to believe. Willing to be corrected though!

Lustrum

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Unfortunately I'm not even surprised.


Ordinary joe does it he gets jailed, Garda does it he walks free. Just the way it is.

Bull****. Plenty of "ordinary" Joes get suspended sentences for a range of offences. His occupation has nothing to do with it. If you break the law you should suffer the consequences, regardless of what you do for a living

Biggins

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No.
I have the utmost respect for the gardai.
I simply believe that ALL legal adults without proven mental problems should be treated absolutely equally before the law. Man or woman, Christian or Muslim, black or white, European or American, priest or taxi driver, Garda or shopkeeper.

Such exceptions and inconsistencies are an absolute blot on civilized society. Equality should cover EVERYTHING.

If it is a blot - it should be rectified - if its not (and we don't know as to FULL details), we should err on the side of caution and accept judgements that we even might not agree with.

My first post was/is not aimed at you by the way.
Usually when someone mentions the word "Gardi" we do get an immediate percentage of the usual clear one sided avalanche of tripe from those with irremovable chips on their shoulders.

Wolfe Tone

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Link?

I find that hard to believe. Willing to be corrected though!

Read the one in the OP. He got 12 months suspended and would spend 6 behind bars. The defense forgot to point out that Gardaí and prison officers get extra mitigation so the next day they went back to court and the whole sentence was suspended.

hatrickpatrick

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

In fairness, he shouldn't be put in with the violent offenders as he'd be killed.

But he should definitely be locked up all the same.

That's what solitary confinement for your own protection is for. Gards aren't the only people who need protection in prison and there are established procedures for providing such.

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Yes we are all equal and unfortunately this is the same sentance that would have been handed down to anyone else in a similar situation.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/courts/boxers-brutal-attack-in-nightclubs-toilet-2577094.html

The judge in the case specifically stated it was because he was a Gard and they are allowed exceptions.

sbsquarepants

prinz wrote: »

Yup, because no non-coppers have ever gotten suspended sentences for that kind of thing.

Civillians have of course gotten suspended sentences for things like this, they deserved to go to jail too.
But what really galls here is the reason why he got it. That is fairly disgusting in all honesty. Surely the fact that he is a cop makes what he done worse. Thereforethe punishment should be more severe, not less?

Bannasidhe

So a man who is employed by the State to uphold and enforce the law beats someone until they are unconscious and has the custodial part of his sentence suspended because as it it his job to uphold the law he may suffer serious consequences...perhaps he should have thought of that before beating someone until they were unconscious. Oh, but he isn't going to suffer the full consequences now is he?

Wile E. Coyote

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Link?

I find that hard to believe. Willing to be corrected though!

I find that hard to believe as well. His choosen career shouldn't even come into it as he was off duty.

prinz

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Civillians have of course gotten suspended sentences for things like this, they deserved to go to jail too.
But what really galls here is the reason why he got it. That is fairly disgusting in all honesty. Surely the fact that he is a cop makes what he done worse. Thereforethe punishment should be more severe, not less?

Well like I said they should have a Garda stockade to imprison members given jail time somewhere in the country and he should serve the full sentence IMO.

On the other hand the actual sentence he got is nothing out of the ordinary compared to members of other professions etc.

AudreyHepburn

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Read the one in the OP. He got 12 months suspended and would spend 6 behind bars. The defense forgot to point out that Gardaí and prison officers get extra mitigation so the next day they went back to court and the whole sentence was suspended.

No link me please. As you would expect me to if I were in your shoes.

I don't understand what the above or the crime itself has to do with his career.

He was off duty, it is irrelevant.

Biggins

If the Garda was given favouritism, that I do not agree with.
He should be seen equally - but that's an opinion, not a judgement.

AudreyHepburn

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Civillians have of course gotten suspended sentences for things like this, they deserved to go to jail too.
But what really galls here is the reason why he got it. That is fairly disgusting in all honesty. Surely the fact that he is a cop makes what he done worse. Thereforethe punishment should be more severe, not less?

Morally yes of course.

As regards what punishment he gets though, he was off duty so his career should be irrelevant. He did not do what he did in relation to his career.

Bannasidhe

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

I find that hard to believe as well. His choosen career shouldn't even come into it as he was off duty.

So his warrant card is void when he is off duty? He was employed to uphold the law!! He chose that profession! He gave an oath...which I am pretty sure does not include the words 'while on duty only'!

Rew

Thread should actually be ex-garda but doesn't make as good of a headline.

Wolfe Tone

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No link me please. As you would expect me to if I were in your shoes.

I don't understand what the above or the crime itself has to do with his career.

He was off duty, it is irrelevant.

The link is in the first post...



Just in case anyone forgot what this copper, Dean Foley, did to his victim;

Mr Murphy suffered a broken nose, facial fractures, broken teeth and bleeding to the brain after the assault. The court heard the brain injuries Mr Murphy sustained were such that he has no recollection of the assault which left him lying unconscious on a city pavement

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-guilty-of-street-assault-2644546.html

jme2010

When a copper is finaly convicted, dont they get a stronger sentance because they know the law before they're breaking it?

Wolfe Tone

jme2010 wrote: »

When a copper is finaly convicted, dont they get a stronger sentance because they know the law before they're breaking it?

No they get a lesser one because they are Gardaí, that fact is grounds for mitigation.

AudreyHepburn

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So his warrant card is void when he is off duty? He was employed to uphold the law!! He chose that profession! He gave an oath...which I am pretty sure does not include the words 'while on duty only'!

Well obviously we ALL have to uphold the law at all times.

But surely the Gardai are entitled nights of when they are just normal people like the rest of us?

Frank Black

jme2010 wrote: »

When a copper is finaly convicted, dont they get a stronger sentance because they know the law before they're breaking it?

Ehhh - obviously not.

Bannasidhe

Well, know we know the answer to Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tommyhaas

DrumSteve wrote: »

Would you have posted this if he wasn't a copper

Have to say, that's up there with the stupidest comments I've read on here

If he wasn't a Garda, he would be in jail, hence the thread would not have existed in the first place. The whole point of the thread is the mitigation in sentencing a Garda can benefit from

Today, Mr Foley's Defence Counsel Donal O'Sullivan told the court that he had failed to mention yesterday a principal in law which accepted that some mitigation in sentencing is granted to former guards and prison officers because they were likely to suffer more in prison.

I know a lot of people argue that regularly people are found guilty of this sort of thing, and avoid custodial sentences

While agree that there is far too much inconsistency regarding sentencing, the fact is that in this particular case,a custodial sentence was avoided purely on the basis of the lad been a Garda.

Other sentences handed out by other judges can't be compared to this case, due to different circumstances/Judges etc. The fact though that one Judge, in line with the law, has decided that by being a Garda you can get off a 6mth custodial sentence is IMO disgraceful

userod

Biggins wrote: »

If the Garda was given favouritism, that I do not agree with.
He should be seen equally - but that's an opinion, not a judgement.

The Gaurd was given favouritism. That was acknowledged in court. While your opinion that he should be seen equally is one I agree with, that is not the case. The law entitles him to extra leniency due to his occupation.

_feedback_

I'm not in any way anti-Gardai. Have a look at previous threads on the subject.

But the idea that they should get lesser sentences because they would suffer more in prison is a load of shít.

He should have thought about what prison would be like before he beat the shít out of someone.

AudreyHepburn

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The link is in the first post...



Just in case anyone forgot what this copper, Dean Foley, did to his victim;



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-guilty-of-street-assault-2644546.html

Just a little advise; You might find it easier to get people to see your point if you were a little more helpful pointing out where it is.

Anyhoo I looked at the link and I still where his career made a difference to sentence except in relation to where he will serve it.