Rampant acceptable Homophobia in the work place

Einhard · 25-05-2011 02:26PM

Calling someone gay or queer, in the manner that most Irish people use the word, isn't remotely homophobic. People who support gay rights do the cause a disservice by mis-using the word in such a way. The OP might have a point about the use of the words, and whether they should be thrown about so flippantly, but their use in the sense he alludes to, is not homophobic.

rochey84 · 25-05-2011 02:29PM

Einhard wrote: »

Calling someone gay or queer, in the manner that most Irish people use the word, isn't remotely homophobic. People who support gay rights do the cause a disservice by mis-using the word in such a way. The OP might have a point about the use of the words, and whether they should be thrown about so flippantly, but their use in the sense he alludes to, is not homophobic.

I was using the term "homophobic" to highlight how they could be misunderstood very easily, 1 of the points I was making was that to someone who isn't out of the closet any negetive use of the word "gay" "queer" "homo" "******" can feel that it is a personal attack!

Einhard · 25-05-2011 02:34PM

rochey84 wrote: »

I was using the term "homophobic" to highlight how they could be misunderstood very easily, 1 of the points I was making was that to someone who isn't out of the closet any negetive use of the word "gay" "queer" "homo" "******" can feel that it is a personal attack!

Yeah, I understand that, and perhaps it's something people should think about, but perhaps also those who take offence could be less sensitive, realise it's not a personal attack, but a turn of phrase, which will hopefully begin to die out.

HazDanz · 25-05-2011 02:36PM

I don't think people focus specifically on Gay people. I don't use the word Gay in particular myself, but i do make gay innuendos with several of my Gay friends and straight friends. It's just a bit of fun. I also make several jokes about other groups in society and it's all light hearted stuff. Irish banter. If you felt you couldn't make a joke about all walks of life, not just homosexuals, thats more of an issue in my opinion!

Of course though if someone took offence to a particular topic and told you the issue they have with that topic, then you acknowledge that and try to be more sensitive to their needs.

rochey84 · 25-05-2011 02:37PM

Einhard wrote: »

Yeah, I understand that, and perhaps it's something people should think about, but perhaps also those who take offence could be less sensitive, realise it's not a personal attack, but a turn of phrase, which will hopefully begin to die out.

Again using myself as the example, when I came out of the closet and realised that the important people in my life didn't give a damn about my sexuality I stopped taking those comments as personal digs or attacks, but they did to some minor extent delay me coming out!

prinz · 25-05-2011 02:37PM

rochey84 wrote: »

I was using the term "homophobic" to highlight how they could be misunderstood very easily, 1 of the points I was making was that to someone who isn't out of the closet any negetive use of the word "gay" "queer" "homo" "******" can feel that it is a personal attack!

Let us get this straight, you've already admitted to using the word queer (to mean strange/odd) to describe people who annoy you, how is everyone else supposed to know what manner/definition of the word you are using at any one time? I don't see the relationship between calling someone who annoys you strange or unusual. How do you know that when you react to someone who annoys you by referring to them as queer you are being misunderstood and offending someone? Are homosexuals mind readers or do you explain in what way you are using the word every time?

Sofiztikated · 25-05-2011 02:39PM

rochey84 wrote: »

I think I may have come across wrong here, I'm not taking offence personally and amongst my own friends etc I do take part in the banter my issue is that 5 or 6 years ago before I came out anything said about gays or anything that kinda dehumanises, even in a funny way, gay people was taken personally I know now cause I'm out that I was being over-sensitive but at the same time I wonder are there people in particular gay people who are still in the closet and take these things personally. And wheather there is or not why is this language acceptable where to start openly slaggin women or another nationality or a different ethnic origin would be completely unacceptable possibly resulting in job losses?

Put it like this.

My group of friends are quite diverse.

We slag:
Polish - Coming over here, stealing our rather ugly wimmens.
English - Coming over here, stealing our spuds.
Irish - Letting the Polish and the Brits steal our spuddy wimmens.
Fat - Fat ****er.
Bald - Scaldy
Skinny - Narrow bastid.
Hairy - ****ing werewolf
Gay - Bender
Straight - Breeder
Bi - Greedy

And do you know something, that describes most of our group. Are we offended? Are we ****. Stop getting offended over inconsequental things.

Insult absolutely ****ing everyone, at least then you can't be accused of being an -ist.

the_syco · 25-05-2011 02:40PM

In 1807, William Wordsworth wrote a poem called Daffodils, in which he mentioned being quite gay.

Since then, the word gay means something completely different.

=-=

Calling a straight person gay is like calling an Irish person living in D4 a "west-brit". It's meant to offend. If they turn out to be gay and/or a west-brit, another phrase will be used to cause offence. The phrase is not used to be homophobic, but rather the phrase is used as a weapon, and only causes maximum offence if the person is not gay.

Wibbs · 25-05-2011 02:45PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Stop getting offended over inconsequental things.

This. If someone or something is preventing you from actually living your life because of some label they attach to you, then hell yea, fight that, otherwise you're better served finding more important things to be getting offended about.

prinz · 25-05-2011 02:47PM

There's going to be a revolution by the culchies. They'll pretend it's All Ireland day and infiltrate the city armed with hurls and flagpoles, and they'll take their revenge on anyone who called them culchies.

rochey84 · 25-05-2011 02:51PM

The point is starting to be missed totally. A few people got what I meant, but some of you aren't quite so sure.

"Let us get this straight, you've already admitted to using the word queer (to mean strange/odd) to describe people who annoy you, how is everyone else supposed to know what manner/definition of the word you are using at any one time? I don't see the relationship between calling someone who annoys you strange or unusual. How do you know that when you react to someone who annoys you by referring to them as queer you are being misunderstood and offending someone? Are homosexuals mind readers or do you explain in what way you are using the word every time? "

Yes I sparingly use the word queer to mean strange or unusual but I try to keep my use of it to a minimum and around people who know what I mean, but thats off the point.

The 2 main points were as follows:

In the workplace it seems acceptable to use derogatory words and slags for gay people without getting in trouble whereas to do the same about women, foregin nationals, or people of a different ethnic background would be punishable by the employer.
When you use these terms in a light hearted banter way in the workplace, you don't know who is sitting near/beside/ or within ear shot who is not out of the closet and feels that this is a personal attack against them.

The first point was the main 1 and I was asking why is this the case, why is it accepted to call someone gay in the workplace but not n1gger for example?

prinz · 25-05-2011 02:56PM

rochey84 wrote: »

The first point was the main 1 and I was asking why is this the case, why is it accepted to call someone gay in the workplace but not n1gger for example?

In YOUR workplace maybe it seems acceptable. Why is it that anyone who says in their workplace it is not acceptable is missing the ppint? You wouldn't just be looking to build a mountain out of a molehill by trying to portray the problem as bigger one than it is? I think the majority of people have said on the thread, and would say that it would be deemed unacceptable by management in their workplaces. Don't assume every workplace operates the way yours does.

Seachmall · 25-05-2011 02:58PM

Interestingly enough men make those comments because they're not homophobic. The same way I might call a straight friend a poof I might call you a poof because I'm not discriminating against either of you. If you, as a poof, take that offensively then that's you misinterpreting the situation, or just being overly-defensive and reading too much into the comments.

Here's an article explaining why a lot of sexual harassment in the work place is actually the very opposite.

rochey84 · 25-05-2011 03:15PM

prinz wrote: »

In YOUR workplace maybe it seems acceptable. Why is it that anyone who says in their workplace it is not acceptable is missing the ppint? You wouldn't just be looking to build a mountain out of a molehill by trying to portray the problem as bigger one than it is? I think the majority of people have said on the thread, and would say that it would be deemed unacceptable by management in their workplaces. Don't assume every workplace operates the way yours does.

Have you read the whole thread? only 1 person so far has said it isn't acceptable in their workplace, the rest haven't acknowledged the question! And I have worked in other places where a blind eye has been turned to it as well, so its not just the one place, in fact listen to FM104 some night and you'll hear Adrian and Jeremy making comments about it, i.e. "are you on the other bus now head?" they don't mean anything by it but it is still a put down. And proves that it does go on in other work places and it is deemed acceptable not only by the management of their work place but also the listening public

Seachmall · 25-05-2011 03:22PM

rochey84 wrote: »

Have you read the whole thread? only 1 person so far has said it isn't acceptable in their workplace, the rest haven't acknowledged the question! And I have worked in other places where a blind eye has been turned to it as well, so its not just the one place, in fact listen to FM104 some night and you'll hear Adrian and Jeremy making comments about it, i.e. "are you on the other bus now head?" they don't mean anything by it but it is still a put down. And proves that it does go on in other work places and it is deemed acceptable not only by the management of their work place but also the listening public

It's deemed acceptable because it should be deemed acceptable. Long before women worked with men and gays were open about their sexuality men were calling eachother queer and referring to each other as women.

It's not discrimination, nor does it intend to be. It's the exact opposite of discrimination and any attempt to limit it will create tension in the work space. If people are too sensitive to comments in the work place then that's their problem and they should leave that environment, not force others to be considerate of their overly-sensitive feelings.

prinz · 25-05-2011 03:25PM

rochey84 wrote: »

Have you read the whole thread? only 1 person so far has said it isn't acceptable in their workplace, the rest haven't acknowledged the question!

Odd that, I can see two posters on page one alone, including myself.

rochey84 wrote: »

listen to FM104 some night and you'll hear Adrian and Jeremy making comments about it, i.e. "are you on the other bus now head?" they don't mean anything by it but it is still a put down. And proves that it does go on in other work places and it is deemed acceptable not only by the management of their work place but also the listening public

You had a point when it came to people actually calling others names etc. Now you are clutching at straws and trying to invent something to get offended by. Something tells me a lot of other sayings and remarks that could be considered 'put downs' would go in one of your ears and out the other.

HazDanz · 25-05-2011 03:33PM

Seachmall wrote: »

It's not discrimination, nor does it intend to be. It's the exact opposite of discrimination and any attempt to limit it will create tension in the work space. If people are too sensitive to comments in the work place then that's their problem and they should leave that environment, not force others to be considerate of their overly-sensitive feelings.

Agreed. PC culture is getting too out of hand.

Zillah · 25-05-2011 03:33PM

Most people don't seem to realise that there is a difference between being a biggot ("I hate gay people") and contributing to a world where biggotry is common ("Bad things are so gay!"). You can help create a world where gay people are made to feel deviant and inferior without actually being homophobic yourself.

And whatever else, if you're an adult that is still calling people gay as if it were funny, it's just pathetic.

AnonoBoy · 25-05-2011 03:36PM

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I think you're reading in to this a bit much? Maybe you caught the ghey?:p.

No I just think your mates sound like a load of 'hilarious' guys. The type of guys that I would delight in describing to in great detail the explicit homosexual activities I got up to at the weekend with their father just to see their face redden and them get angry.

"But you're not homophobic I thought? I thought it was just 'banter'."
"Yeah but.... but.... but...."

*Me laughing*

It's fun.

AnonoBoy · 25-05-2011 03:40PM

Seachmall wrote: »

It's not discrimination, nor does it intend to be. It's the exact opposite of discrimination and any attempt to limit it will create tension in the work space. If people are too sensitive to comments in the work place then that's their problem and they should leave that environment, not force others to be considerate of their overly-sensitive feelings.

Sorry but that's bullsh*t. If someone sits in work giving out constantly about 'f*ggots' and there's a gay person there they have the right to complain.

You can't just say "Oh if you don't like it don't come to work."

Would you say the same if someone was giving out about Africans?

"Sorry Carel if you don't like being called a n*gger maybe you should just leave work."

There's a difference between a small comment and a constant ongoing theme of homophobic comments whether they're meant in jest or not.

AnonoBoy · 25-05-2011 03:42PM

HazDanz wrote: »

Agreed. PC culture is getting too out of hand.

Here have a listen to Stewart Lee if you actually think not being allowed use homophobic language is actually 'Political Correctness Gone Mad'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IYx4Bc6_eE

lastlaugh · 25-05-2011 03:42PM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

The type of guys that I would delight in describing to in great detail the explicit homosexual activities I got up to at the weekend with their father just to see their face redden and them get angry.

"But you're not homophobic I thought? I thought it was just 'banter'."
"Yeah but.... but.... but...."
*Me laughing*

It's fun.

Ah here c'mon now, that's just plain evil.

Whatever you gays get up to in your own time is up to you, but you can leave that type of 'banter' among yourselves.

AnonoBoy · 25-05-2011 03:46PM

lastlaugh wrote: »

Ah here c'mon now, that's just plain evil.

Whatever you gays get up to in your own time is up to you, but you can leave that type of 'banter' among yourselves.

Oh yeah forgot to mention, I'm not gay.

"It's only a bit of banter. Just like when you called that guy a steaming queer a few minutes ago. It's only a bit of banter. Can't you take a joke? Can't you take one? Your father can take one. He took one pretty well from me last night so he did! etc. etc. etc."

lastlaugh · 25-05-2011 03:50PM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Oh yeah forgot to mention, I'm not gay.

You mightn't be gay, but you're still a f@ggot.

mod: Poster banned.

Big Nasty · 25-05-2011 03:51PM

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I think you're reading in to this a bit much? Maybe you caught the ghey?:p

AnonoBoy wrote: »

No I just think your mates sound like a load of 'hilarious' guys. The type of guys that I would delight in describing to in great detail the explicit homosexual activities I got up to at the weekend with their father just to see their face redden and them get angry.

"But you're not homophobic I thought? I thought it was just 'banter'."
"Yeah but.... but.... but...."

*Me laughing*

It's fun.

Why don't you quote the whole post when responding - not just the bits that suit you?

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I think you're reading in to this a bit much? Maybe you caught the ghey?:p

It's like this - groups of lads can be fairly tasteless when they get together slagging anything and everything including them selves and each other. It's doesn't necessarily mean they're homopohobic, racist, judgemental or whatever - it's just banter.

I'm half bald (shave the rest off) and a bit heavy, or what some would consider fat. How many FAT threads have you seen running on AH on a regular basis? Not once have I complained about same and what you see in those threads is a lot more than just banter among a closed circle of friends / workmates.

What's your response to this whole quote?

AnonoBoy · 25-05-2011 03:51PM

lastlaugh wrote: »

You mightn't be gay, but you're still a f@ggot.

I don't ride a Harley. :mad:

AnonoBoy · 25-05-2011 03:51PM

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Why don't you quote the whole post when responding - not just the bits that suit you?

What's your response to this whole quote?

Eh..... I still think your friends are spas. And I'd still delight in detailing sucking off their fathers to annoy them.

It would be hilarious.

And slagging off someone's weight or baldness is not comparable with slagging off someone's sexuality or race.

Big Nasty · 25-05-2011 03:52PM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Oh yeah forgot to mention, I'm not gay.

"It's only a bit of banter. Just like when you called that guy a steaming queer a few minutes ago. It's only a bit of banter. Can't you take a joke? Can't you take one? Your father can take one. He took one pretty well from me last night so he did! etc. etc. etc."

Yore Ma!:pac::P

mikemac · 25-05-2011 03:53PM

no homo

It was an internet fad at one stage, was all over boards. Anyone remember this?

I like that pink car, no homo
I like that cheesy pop band, no homo

And like all internet fads, it disappeared without a trace

Just this thread reminded me of it, haven't seen it in years

Sorry, way offtopic

elekid · 25-05-2011 03:54PM

lastlaugh wrote:

Maybe if you are a gay you are better off coming straight out with it and letting people know instead of hiding away being over sensative and getting insulted though...

Absolutely but it's not always that simple. Often people who are "in the closet" are full of self-loathing, horrified at how they feel and afraid of what other people would think of them if they knew. Hearing people throw words like gay, queer, f*g etc. around in a clearly negative way just reinforces how they think they will be treated if they come out and makes them even less likely to let other people know. You kind of have to accept it yourself before you can start telling other people.

I don't think anything should be above a bit of good-natured slagging but unfortunately the line between slagging and perceived bullying can vary greatly depending on the people involved and what's going on in their heads ("your ma" jokes are great until you say it to your friend whose ma just died - you never know what effect a simple joke could have on someone else)

Rampant acceptable Homophobia in the work place

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