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Sinn Fein absence from royal events (mod warning: stay on topic!)

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  • #92
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    irishh_bob wrote: »
    mick wallace and ming flanagan are hardly instrumental figures in northern ireland

    Why should instrumental figures in Northern Ireland meet their Queen in the Republic?


  • #93
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Precisely! We don't vote for hypocrites!

    :D:D

    Yes we do, all the bloody time, unfortunately.


  • #94
    dicknorris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 122 ✭✭dicknorris


    Clareboy wrote: »
    I have great respect for Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, but I was dissapointed to see that Sinn Fein were not represented at any of the events to do with the visit of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and HRH The Duke of Edinburgh to Ireland. Sinn Fein can sit down with Unionists in the North and do business with them and still they cannot meet Her Majesty and forget the past. What is their problem?

    Who cares nobody missing them


  • #95
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I honestly thought eirigi or some other Republican group was going to create absolute havoc in Dublin. Seems they have not had a chance to riot.

    I'd imagine they would have liked to but with basically every Garda in the country on the streets of Dublin it was near impossible.


  • #96
    largepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 813 ✭✭✭largepants


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Precisely! We don't vote for hypocrites!

    The day they move on is the day that hypocrisy disappears and then we might consider voting for them.

    But at the moment they refuse to move on while requesting us to, which is completely hypocritical, and that is a massive issue, regardless of the recency of their violence and other activities.

    Not only that, but their stance on stuff like the queen of England shows that they don't represent us or want to, so why would we consider them ? They can't just become "acceptable" overnight to 2 polar opposite groups; they need to change or accept the fact that Ireland has moved on and they'd have to settle for their core support.

    So the fact that have sat across the table from the likes of Paisley and Robinson isn't moving on then? IMO SF have moved a great deal since the horrible days of the troubles. The fact that they didn't accept an invite to meet the Queen will never change that. As some other poster alluded earlier it seems people will not happy until they see Gerry Adams wear a Union Jack Bermuda Shorts on his holidays this summer. Or maybe these same people would prefer that SF went back to way they were.And the simple fact is that you are standing up there on your pulpit berating SF for their inability to move on while doing the exact same thing yourself.


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  • #97
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Why should instrumental figures in Northern Ireland meet their Queen in the Republic?

    So are you saying you agree with only paying lip service to 'all inclusiveness' and 'reconciliation'?
    Is it right to be saying one thing and actually doing another?

    Here's Enda waffling about 'reconciliation'.
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/enda-kenny-royal-visit-will-be-seen-around-world-as-symbol-of-reconciliation-2648378.html


  • #98
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    There is a large amount of truth in what you are saying in this post. You could even extend this to a number of the border counties within the Republic, cut off from their natural hinterlands they were effectively left to stagnate over a number of decades.

    those in the border counties had great fun , between smuggling cattle , diesel and drawing dole and farm subsidies on either side , the border was incredibly lucrative :D


  • #99
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    So are you saying you agree with only paying lip service to 'all inclusiveness' and 'reconciliation'?

    I'm saying that when the head of state from a neighbouring country visits our country, she should meet instrumental figures from our country, not hers. She can meet her subjects when she visits the North, as she has done several times in the past.


  • #100
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    I'm saying that when the head of state from a neighbouring country visits our country, she should meet instrumental figures from our country, not hers. She can meet her subjects when she visits the North, as she has done several times in the past.

    Thanks for making your viewpoint clear. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • #101
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    largepants wrote: »
    So the fact that have sat across the table from the likes of Paisley and Robinson isn't moving on then? IMO SF have moved a great deal since the horrible days of the troubles.

    And the fact that we voted to release murderers means that the rest of us have too.

    The point is that they haven't moved on ENOUGH.....and to be fair, probably can't, because the neanderthals will revert and abandon them.

    Do they refer to this state by its name yet ? If not, they can't represent me in it.
    largepants wrote: »
    As some other poster alluded earlier it seems people will not happy until they see Gerry Adams wear a Union Jack Bermuda Shorts on his holidays this summer.

    No, but that's what "republicans" tend to believe.
    largepants wrote: »
    And the simple fact is that you are standing up there on your pulpit berating SF for their inability to move on while doing the exact same thing yourself.

    I've explained this.....I won't "move on" further for hypocrites. They scream for disclosure from Britain re bombings and yet refuse to make the same demands from the IRA.

    And as I said, moving on aside they couldn't represent me anyway because I don't view things in blinkered black & white and refusing to take part in a historic event like this week.

    Anyway, I doubt there's much point in discussing this much more......the vast majority of the country aren't complaining or objecting, so it's pretty clear what the verdict is.

    And great to see that the security levels have been relaxed for Cork.....that'll hopefully put paid to claims that the streets are empty because she's not wanted here.

    I wouldn't be arsed heading out to see her myself (I dislike the while concept of royals & birthright and extravagant riches) but I can still acknowledge what has been a welcome and significant step forward in terms of relationships between the two countries.


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  • #102
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    irishh_bob wrote: »
    those in the border counties had great fun , between smuggling cattle , diesel and drawing dole and farm subsidies on either side , the border was incredibly lucrative :D

    :D:D Ah, I can still feel the melting butter running down my legs!


  • #103
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    And the fact that we voted (.......) the two countries.

    Is this about SF being absent from royal events, or a rerun of 'Bash the Shinners' part CMXCIX


  • #104
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Nodin wrote: »
    Is this about SF being absent from royal events, or a rerun of 'Bash the Shinners' part CMXCIX

    Well they're inextricably linked, although the word "bash" is overused and inappropriate.

    If SF choose not to participate in events that the majority of the country accepts, then they will be bashedcriticised for it, and obviously don't represent the people who are glad to move on.

    They can choose - that's their right. But like a party that - for example - sets out its stall in relation to civil partnership or abortion or divorce at odds with the majority of the population, they won't find their popularity increasing as a result.


  • #105
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Precisely! We don't vote for hypocrites!

    "We" being who precisely here?


  • #106
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    I've been thinking about the ramifications of this visit a lot and I reckon that in one way Sinn Fein are delighted at the reaction to their absence.
    Because out of the closet have come all those people who like Paisley and his ilk, would rather proscribe and ignore than engage.

    The potential capital Sinn Fein will make by saying 'we told you that this mindset drives the powers that be in the Republic' may be sizeable.

    Adams is no slouch when it comes to making political capital, his manipulation of the Ballymurphy sniper incident way back in 1971 to 'radicalise the middle class' is evidence of that and it's one of the reasons that he is one of the longest serving party leaders in the world. I think the decision to be 'absent' may very well be more of that manipulation.

    QE2 and her band will leave soon but what will be left behind? How much will have changed? Wouldn't it be ironic if Sinn Fein where the only ones to make political capital as the dividend for government party will be short lived because of our economic situation.


  • #107
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Bambi wrote: »
    "We" being who precisely here?

    Those of us who haven't voted for hypocrites. :rolleyes:

    As you might notice from my signature, I don't use the word "we" to include additional people or some collective bull like FF's "we all spent too much".......

    "We" is simply a word that means "I and others", as in "we were out the other night playing pool"

    So I'm using it correctly, despite your attempt to imply that I mean more by it; it's the other version of it that's objectionable and incorrect.


  • #108
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Well they're inextricably linked, although the word "bash" is overused and inappropriate.

    If SF choose not to participate in events that the majority of the country accepts, then they will be bashedcriticised for it, and obviously don't represent the people who are glad to move on.

    They can choose - that's their right. But like a party that - for example - sets out its stall in relation to civil partnership or abortion or divorce at odds with the majority of the population, they won't find their popularity increasing as a result.


    ...but most of your diatribes don't seem to be too concerned with the Queens events, but a re-run of oft outed themes, Liam.


  • #109
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...but most of your diatribes don't seem to be too concerned with the Queens events, but a re-run of oft outed themes, Liam.

    Simply because the "objections" to the Queens events are repeatedly ignoring the progress that the rest of the country has made in moving on, and therefore I'm merely exposing the hypocrisy of those supporting those and simultaneously requesting that we "move on".

    If they move on then I will. Simples.


  • #110
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Simply because the "objections" to the Queens events are repeatedly ignoring the progress that the rest of the country has made in moving on, and therefore I'm merely exposing the hypocrisy of those supporting those and simultaneously requesting that we "move on".

    If they move on then I will. Simples.

    No Liam, you're digging up issues relating to the release of prisoners to the PIRA campaign because SF haven't dropped a part of their policy you don't agree with.

    And no, you won't "move on".


  • #111
    sceptre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    On-topic and useful contributions only folks please, or don't bother.


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  • #112
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Liams not a fan of SF then? I never would have guessed.

    Besides...
    It has emerged that the Sinn Féin Mayor of Cashel, Cllr Michael Brown, shook Queen Elizabeth II’s hand during her visit to the town today.

    The pair also enjoyed a brief conversation as the British monarch and her husband, Prince Phillip, toured the Rock of Cashel landmark.

    The royals will be visiting Cork city this afternoon, where hundreds of well-wishers have already gathered to greet them.

    Cllr Michael Brown was elected to Cashel Town Council in 1985. He lost it in 1999, before regaining it in 2004.

    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sinn-fein-mayor-shakes-queens-hand-on-cashel-visit-505779.html#ixzz1Mu6umbbb


  • #113
    No1J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 783 ✭✭✭No1J


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Liams not a fan of SF then? I never would have guessed.

    Besides...
    It has emerged that the Sinn Féin Mayor of Cashel, Cllr Michael Brown, shook Queen Elizabeth II’s hand during her visit to the town today.

    The pair also enjoyed a brief conversation as the British monarch and her husband, Prince Phillip, toured the Rock of Cashel landmark.

    The royals will be visiting Cork city this afternoon, where hundreds of well-wishers have already gathered to greet them.

    Cllr Michael Brown was elected to Cashel Town Council in 1985. He lost it in 1999, before regaining it in 2004.

    Well done Michael, good to see that there are people who may have different beliefs to others but are strong enough to put them to one side for the greater good of the Country. I understand the SF stance but feel it was an opportunity missed, if Martin and Ian could sit down together could Gerry not have offered the hand, "premature" poor excuse.


  • #114
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Liams not a fan of SF then? I never would have guessed.

    Besides...
    It has emerged that the Sinn Féin Mayor of Cashel, Cllr Michael Brown, shook Queen Elizabeth II’s hand during her visit to the town today.

    The pair also enjoyed a brief conversation as the British monarch and her husband, Prince Phillip, toured the Rock of Cashel landmark.

    The royals will be visiting Cork city this afternoon, where hundreds of well-wishers have already gathered to greet them.

    Cllr Michael Brown was elected to Cashel Town Council in 1985. He lost it in 1999, before regaining it in 2004.

    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sinn-fein-mayor-shakes-queens-hand-on-cashel-visit-505779.html#ixzz1Mu6umbbb

    If they do some more stuff like that, then (while I couldn't see myself becoming a fan) I'd at least start to have an ounce of respect for them.

    Credit where credit is due! Fair play Michael!


  • #115
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    fergpie wrote: »
    Its good to see that at least one sinn fein politician could have the courage to shake the hand of the queen instead of adopting the same run of the mill party stance adopted by mary lou, o'snodaigh, etc in the media recently.
    SFs leadership have displayed just as much courage in staying away from events while the whole country fawns.


  • #116
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    SFs leadership have displayed just as much courage in staying away from events while the whole country fawns.

    Fawns? Give it a rest will ya! People were excited/curious/interested/ambivalent/uninterested/quietly hostile (thats you)/violently hostile. I'd say most fell into categories curious/interested/ambivalent/uninterested.


  • #117
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    mike65 wrote: »
    Fawns? Give it a rest will ya! People were excited/curious/interested/ambivalent/uninterested/quietly hostile (thats you)/violently hostile. I'd say most fell into categories curious/interested/ambivalent/uninterested.
    To categorize that man as "courageous" and imply that SF were in some way cowardly for staying away is disingenuous and does not reflect the fact that SF, as a party, took a principled stand. That is not cowardly.


  • #118
    jmc19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 ✭jmc19


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    SFs leadership have displayed just as much courage in staying away from events while the whole country fawns.
    Nothing courageous about it in my opinion :mad: I voted SF in the recent election and I won't be voting for them again after this stunt.It was a great opportunity missed.

    SF say they are for peace and the moving forward for peace in Northern Ireland and a historic event as this they are not present, didn't even turn up in Dail Eireann to meet her. Instead they have protested and have members of their own party (one's that weren't even born during the start of the troubles) posting up anti British comments on their Facebook/Blog pages, "we want the Queen for war crimes" etc..., will members of the IRA be held for war crimes too :rolleyes:

    It's clear to me that SF will never move on, I get the whole history thing and we should never forget our past and how far we have come but at the same time we need to move on, show some maturity and look ahead to forgive and forget and build a better Ireland for us all and our children.


  • #119
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Could have sworn the whole GFA thing in which SF and Gerry Adams were instrumental in putting together was kinda moving forward no?


  • #120
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    To categorize that man as "courageous" and imply that SF were in some way cowardly for staying away is disingenuous and does not reflect the fact that SF, as a party, took a principled stand. That is not cowardly.
    Not cowardly but wrong. Sinn Fein represent the old Ireland, opposed to the new one that people like the Queen and Mary Mac are trying to create.


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  • #121
    The Waltzing Consumer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    SFs leadership have displayed just as much courage in staying away from events while the whole country fawns.

    Lol, for a party who "talked" a lot about staying away from events, it was amazing to see Gerry every time I saw the Queen.

    "I will not meet the Queen or attend events, but I will be in close proximity and be constantly giving my opinion to the media"

    Absolute nonsense from the SF leadership. If the were gonna stay away from the events, they would have STAYED away. They did not, they were falling over themselves near the Queens events just to give interviews and get publicity.


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