Sinn Fein absence from royal events (mod warning: stay on topic!)

Clareboy

I have great respect for Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, but I was dissapointed to see that Sinn Fein were not represented at any of the events to do with the visit of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and HRH The Duke of Edinburgh to Ireland. Sinn Fein can sit down with Unionists in the North and do business with them and still they cannot meet Her Majesty and forget the past. What is their problem?

PatsytheNazi

Clareboy wrote: »

I have great respect for Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, but I was dissapointed to see that Sinn Fein were not represented at any of the events to do with the visit of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and HRH The Duke of Edinburgh to Ireland. Sinn Fein can sit down with Unionists in the North and do business with them and still they cannot meet Her Majesty and forget the past. What is their problem?

As Republicans they are anti monarchy.

Simples.

later12

Hopefully, as elected politicians, they have better things to be getting up to than attending flower ceremonies.

I suspect the real reason, however, is that they are withdrawing from the negative PR spin this would inspire in Northern Ireland by other nationalists who probably already brand them as sell-outs.

Clareboy

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

As Republicans they are anti monarchy.

Simples.

I am sure that members of the Republican Party in the USA would have no problem in greeting the Queen of England or indeed any other monarch.

Ash.J.Williams

Yeah i think sin fein are missing out. Even the Unionists think sin fein are missing out. This has turned out to be a great few days of mutal respect and looking forward.

Clareboy

later10 wrote: »

Hopefully, as elected politicians, they have better things to be getting up to than attending flower ceremonies.

I suspect the real reason, however, is that they are withdrawing from the negative PR spin this would inspire in Northern Ireland by other nationalists who probably already brand them as sell-outs.

Sell outs! I did not think that the Sinn Fein position in the North was so precarious that they would be afraid to shake the hand of the head of state of our nearest neighbour.

KeithAFC

They most likely did miss out. Even my da who is a loyalist and who used to be in the orange order had a tear in the eye as he believes in moving forward towards peace. Probably has put a few Unionists fears to rest too that many people in the Irish Republic don't hate our traditions or our monarch.

steelcityblues

Clareboy wrote: »

Sell outs! I did not think that the Sinn Fein position in the North was so precarious that they would be afraid to shake the hand of the head of state of our nearest neighbour.

A potential loss of seats in several constituencies has to be looked at too!

PatsytheNazi

Dublin Sinn Féin activists unveil a banner at the Sinn Féin bookshop in Parnell Square calling on the British Government, during the visit to Ireland by Elizabeth Windsor, to release all the documentation it has in relation to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings of 1974. It is widely believed that British security forces assisted the loyalists who carried out the bombings leaving 34 people dead and hundreds injured.

The Waltzing Consumer

It is a stupid move by SF. The rest of the world moves on, the vast majorty of Irish, Northern Irish and British move on, and SF? Well they sit on the fence trying to please everyone and get as many votes as possible. It will probably backfire.

They are out in the rain with the other objectors, junkies and scum. They could have easily been a part of history, a mature progressive society, meeting any head of state as equal. But nope, appease the scum and look like backward muppets.

later12

KeithAFC wrote: »

They most likely did miss out. Even my da who is a loyalist and who used to be in the orange order had a tear in the eye as he believes in moving forward towards peace. Probably has put a few Unionists fears to rest too that many people in the Irish Republic don't hate our traditions or our monarch.

Does anybody else find the idea that marching bands can make people change entrenched ways just makes the whole affair, and the whole historical background, more absurd? Thousands of people died on both sides and then someone comes along and says 'well now, that trumpet, those flowers, that changes everything!' It just underlines how silly these people were being in the first place.

We could probably have a similar effect on the Sinn Fein contingent by dressing Elizabeth R up in the costume of Queen Maeve and shoving her out in front of Windsor Castle singing Óró Sé do Bheath Abhaile. You get the depressing feeling that all these people ever wanted was the vulgarity of symbolism to begin with.

Sunnyisland

KeithAFC wrote: »

Even my da who is a loyalist and who used to be in the orange order had a tear in the eye as he believes in moving forward towards peace. Probably has put a few Unionists fears to rest too that many people in the Irish Republic don't hate our traditions or our monarch.

That is great to hear,Thanks.

Sunnyisland

steelcityblues wrote: »

A potential loss of seats in several constituencies has to be looked at too!

I think your jumping the gun , By the time the next elections come around we be all back in our normal everyday complaining against the government mode.

mike65

SF are protecting their flank in Norn Iron, but the cost of that is being seen to have failed to engage with the new realities south of the border.

Edward Carson

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Dublin Sinn Féin activists unveil a banner at the Sinn Féin bookshop in Parnell Square calling on the British Government, during the visit to Ireland by Elizabeth Windsor, to release all the documentation it has in relation to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings of 1974. It is widely believed that British security forces assisted the loyalists who carried out the bombings leaving 34 people dead and hundreds injured.

It certainly is time for truth for innocent victims on all sides of the conflict. I can only imagine Sinn Fein will cooperate fully with any future investigations into the murder of innocent people by the IRA (if only in the interests of truth).

steelcityblues

realies wrote: »

I think your jumping the gun , By the time the next elections come around we be all back in our normal everyday complaining against the government mode.

and vote in another bunch of clowns!

Permabear

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steelcityblues

Permabear wrote: »

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They hold about 20 seats (out of 166) together now, so you can't dismiss them so lightly these days.

KeithAFC

I honestly thought eirigi or some other Republican group was going to create absolute havoc in Dublin. Seems they have not had a chance to riot.

later12

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Unfortunately, one of the first rules that fledgling political parties and pressure groups learn is 'be outrageous' for this exact reason. People generally don't support SF, people generally disagree with the wisdom of their policies, and yet they are one of the most discussed political entities in British and Irish politics.

If I were ever to establish a political party I would make it so notorious, so outrageous, (possibly just say something coherent on abortion in reality) that nobody would support it and everybody would talk about it. This is the equivalent of locking the doors and have everyone protest outside. I would then change the party's stance every so gradually toward the centre, opening the doors, and watching the audience fill up.

Lesson is: people love to be outraged. Outrage them first, and then come around. Fianna Fail, Labour and Fine Gael themselves are no strangers to this phenomenon - most parties anchor their popularity in the soothing of their outrage. Sinn Fein just happens to be mid-way in this process, as far as I can gather.

later12

steelcityblues wrote: »

They hold about 20 seats (out of 166) together now, so you can't dismiss them so lightly these days.

14 is closer to 10 than it is to 20.

The Waltzing Consumer

KeithAFC wrote: »

I honestly thought eirigi or some other Republican group was going to create absolute havoc in Dublin. Seems they have not had a chance to riot.

Keith, when a large portion of their "protesters" are made up of junkies, their attention span does wane when they need more heroin. Plus, social welfare is paid on a wednesday so that would explain the rest of the scumbags not turning up for more trouble. Heroin and living off the state are far more important to these people.

steelcityblues

later10 wrote: »

14 is closer to 10 than it is to 20.

The poster also referred to the ULA as 'crackpots', so that means about 20 'crackpots' currently in Leinster House.

irishh_bob

Clareboy wrote: »

I have great respect for Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, but I was dissapointed to see that Sinn Fein were not represented at any of the events to do with the visit of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and HRH The Duke of Edinburgh to Ireland. Sinn Fein can sit down with Unionists in the North and do business with them and still they cannot meet Her Majesty and forget the past. What is their problem?

peter robinson chose not to meet the pope last year when he was in belfast , he would have faced too much flak from his community , same deal for martin mc guinness here , besides , sinn feins core value is that of a united ireland , untill that happens , they could not credibly welcome the queen of england to a partinioned ireland , im not saying i share thier views but when it comes to this issue , things are very different for sinn fein , in the eyes of thier base , they,ve moved a long way already

later12

steelcityblues wrote: »

The poster also referred to the ULA

Oh true, my bad.

irishh_bob

KeithAFC wrote: »

They most likely did miss out. Even my da who is a loyalist and who used to be in the orange order had a tear in the eye as he believes in moving forward towards peace. Probably has put a few Unionists fears to rest too that many people in the Irish Republic don't hate our traditions or our monarch.

a very significant post kieth if you dont mind me saying so

Bottle_of_Smoke

KeithAFC wrote: »

I honestly thought eirigi or some other Republican group was going to create absolute havoc in Dublin. Seems they have not had a chance to riot.

I think credit has to be given to gardai and others who organised the security. Was done in such a way that no proper focus point could be made for riots. I don't know if you're familiar with Dublin city centre but the garden of remembrance was cordoned off quite cleverly.

The other thing is Sinn Fein didn't take part in direct protests. They would have had the power and networks to mobilise more people but they had "alternative events" instead of civil disobedience

The downside is I heard a lot of people were upset they didn't get to see her. I think many people expected her to be driving past crowds and shaking a few hands.

Permabear

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steelcityblues

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Into more debt?

caseyann

irishh_bob wrote: »

peter robinson chose not to meet the pope last year when he was in belfast , he would have faced too much flak from his community , same deal for martin mc guinness here , besides , sinn feins core value is that of a united ireland , untill that happens , they could not credibly welcome the queen of england to a partinioned ireland , im not saying i share thier views but when it comes to this issue , things are very different for sinn fein , in the eyes of thier base , they,ve moved a long way already

Like the ex president of SF said on the news,until united Ireland is seen.
Nicely put even if you dont share the views.At least some people can see it as it is.Would be hypocritical of them to do so.

dlofnep

Sinn Féin doesn't wish to meet with the Queen of England? Shocker! There's no keeping anyone happy.

dienbienphu

Clareboy wrote: »

I have great respect for Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, but I was dissapointed to see that Sinn Fein were not represented at any of the events to do with the visit of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and HRH The Duke of Edinburgh to Ireland. Sinn Fein can sit down with Unionists in the North and do business with them and still they cannot meet Her Majesty and forget the past. What is their problem?

i think its a sign of immaturity. look at how far they've come and they refuse to attend. i think they're trying to hang onto one last bit of credibility that they've left

Sunnyisland

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Keith, when a large portion of their "protesters" are made up of junkies, their attention span does wane when they need more heroin. Plus, social welfare is paid on a wednesday so that would explain the rest of the scumbags not turning up for more trouble. Heroin and living off the state are far more important to these people.

Without going in to defend the protesters but to say all of them are the above is some what generalising to put it mildly,and for your information social welfare is paid mon-friday inclusive.

caseyann

dienbienphu wrote: »

i think its a sign of immaturity. look at how far they've come and they refuse to attend. i think they're trying to hang onto one last bit of credibility that they've left

Its a sign of standing up for what they believe in and a lot of us believe in.;)

dienbienphu

caseyann wrote: »

Its a sign of standing up for what they believe in and a lot of us believe in.;)

hypocrisy is what it is. sinn fein have gone as far as they can get. its time they accept that the GFA was the best deal they could get and they should stop trying to paint themselves as republicans because accepting the GFA shows that they were nothing but civl rights protesters using the name of the IRA for their cause

Sunnyisland

KeithAFC wrote: »

They most likely did miss out. Even my dad who is a loyalist and who used to be in the orange order had a tear in the eye as he believes in moving forward towards peace. Probably has put a few Unionists fears to rest too that many people in the Irish Republic don't hate our traditions or our monarch.

irishh_bob wrote: »

a very significant post Kieth if you dont mind me saying so

While it is to be welcomed I wouldn't have my hopes up to high as the loyalist community have there own very significant ;protesters: who would make the current Dublin ones cringe with embarrassment.

The Waltzing Consumer

realies wrote: »

Without going in to defend the protesters but to say all of them are the above is some what generalising to put it mildly,and for your information social welfare is paid mon-friday inclusive.

Not generalising for the people there yesterday.

Dirk Gently

dlofnep wrote: »

Sinn Féin doesn't wish to meet with the Queen of England? Shocker! There's no keeping anyone happy.

wouldn't normally comment in a SF thread (they are car crash threads, not necessarily because of SF supporters either) but the above is true, there is no keeping anti SF people happy. I think they've taken a mature stance by not protesting and in doing so letting the event take place in as much dignity as possible.

Some people wont be happy until SF are out on the street waving union jacks and supporting partition. Just stand back for a second and have the maturity to recognise a significant gesture by them in butting out of the visit. If they decided to organise protests it would be a lot more than a handful of eirigi supporting junkies we'd have to police and it would be much more significant numbers and more newsworthy. They chose not to do that. I say fair play to them for that.

Happyman42

dienbienphu wrote: »

hypocrisy is what it is. sinn fein have gone as far as they can get. its time they accept that the GFA was the best deal they could get and they should stop trying to paint themselves as republicans because accepting the GFA shows that they were nothing but civl rights protesters using the name of the IRA for their cause

That is an extraordinary political analysis. :eek:

sollar

KeithAFC wrote: »

I honestly thought eirigi or some other Republican group was going to create absolute havoc in Dublin. Seems they have not had a chance to riot.

I think this visit has been a very significant defeat for the likes of eirigi. This was their time to bring their support out on the street for a show of numbers. They could only manage between 50 and 100. This just shows that whatever future this country has the militant republicans have no support anymore.

murphaph

I doubt Her Majesty gives two fcuks about Gerry Adams not being there.

The Waltzing Consumer

murphaph wrote: »

I doubt Her Majesty gives two fcuks about Gerry Adams not being there.

For someone who has no interest in meeting the Queen, wherever the Queen went, along went Gerry in the background to talk to the media.

Jaap

I think we should concentrate on who was there and who wasn't!
Although if Sinn Fein claim to be a party interested in developing a shared society in Northern Ireland...why are they turning their backs on an invite to dine with a lady who is idolised by the majority of Northern Ireland.
This majority have accepted ex-terrorists from Sinn Fein in to government...is trying to move forward and just meeting an important figurehead for the other side of the community that hard?

Godge

Edward Carson wrote: »

It certainly is time for truth for innocent victims on all sides of the conflict. I can only imagine Sinn Fein will cooperate fully with any future investigations into the murder of innocent people by the IRA (if only in the interests of truth).

Agree fully with these sentiments. And what better time than this for Sinn Fein or the IRA to offer up the man who pressed the button to kill Lord Mountbatten and the innocents on his boat? The Queen was right when she said all of us have been affected by the events of the last 40 years and her family as much as any.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I was surprised at which unionist politicians showed up. Tom Elliot in particular. On stephen nolan show yesterday a lot of unionist callers were annoyed about the wreathlaying and the visit in general.

KeithAFC

Edward Carson wrote: »

It certainly is time for truth for innocent victims on all sides of the conflict. I can only imagine Sinn Fein will cooperate fully with any future investigations into the murder of innocent people by the IRA (if only in the interests of truth).

Welcome to the forum.

KeithAFC

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I was surprised at which unionist politicians showed up. Tom Elliot in particular. On stephen nolan show yesterday a lot of unionist callers were annoyed about the wreathlaying and the visit in general.

Wasn't it the World war wreath laying? It was in remembrance to the brave volunteers of 16th Irish division and the 36th Ulster division which is remembered in Ulster every year.

Bottle_of_Smoke

KeithAFC wrote: »

Wasn't it the World war wreath laying? It was in remembrance to the brave volunteers of 16th Irish division and the 36th Ulster division which is remembered in Ulster every year.

I thought they meant the one she laid for the men and women of 1916

I think there is also offense taken at the croke park visit because its considered by some unionists to be a republican organisation

hmmm

The people of the Republic agreed to let murderers out of jail to try and rehabilitate ex terrorists into our politics, the people of the UK have sent their Head of State here to brave possible injury to prostrate herself before us, the least SF and Republicans could do is try and show some level of maturity by acknowledging those events with grace. Instead the country is forced to spend tens of millions protecting the Queen & Irish people from neanderthal elements of Republicanism, and we have to listen to SF endlessly lecturing us on how we should "move on" yet at the same time showing an inability to do so when it doesn't suit them.

SF are clearly showing that they lack maturity, and worse, they lack any sense of dignity or comprehension of the sacrifices that everyone on these two islands have been making to try and accommodate their inclusion in democratic politics.

KeithAFC

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I thought they meant the one she laid for the men and women of 1916

I think there is also offense taken at the croke park visit because its considered by some unionists to be a republican organisation

Some do view it like that. And the GAA has got a dodgy past in that regard Peter and co went to the World war ceremonies.

fergpie

hmmm wrote: »

The people of the Republic agreed to let murderers out of jail to try and rehabilitate ex terrorists into our politics, the people of the UK have sent their Head of State here to brave possible injury to prostrate herself before us, the least SF and Republicans could do is try and show some level of maturity by acknowledging those events with grace. Instead the country is forced to spend tens of millions protecting the Queen & Irish people from neanderthal elements of Republicanism, and we have to listen to SF endlessly lecturing us on how we should "move on" yet at the same time showing an inability to do so when it doesn't suit them.

SF are clearly showing that they lack maturity, and worse, they lack any sense of dignity or comprehension of the sacrifices that everyone on these two islands have been making to try and accommodate their inclusion in democratic politics.

Spot on. Couldnt have said it better myself.