Shameless Communion day

Mint Sauce · 08-05-2011 01:43PM

dvpower wrote: »

I think this should be changed. It should be an arrangement between the kid (and the parents) and the church. The church shouldn't be delagating this to a state service and a state service shouldn't be taking over this burden from a church.

I know. Its pretty pathetic that parents would bring their children into a religion just so they don't feel left out, isn't it?

It looks like the delegating of the responsibility of preperation for communion from the church to the school system isn't working too well.

Well when I done my first commuinon, many many years ago, the primary school, and even the secondary school had close links with the local parish church, all three were also neighbouring buildings.

Everyone in the class automatically prepared for their commumion during class time, with instruction carried out by the teacher, with the parish priest only getting invloved once or twice.

The parish priest that took over, also took over the communion preperation, with the reason that these kids and their parents were only coming to the church on communion day, basically if you wanted to receive, you had to come to mass regulary.

hdowney · 08-05-2011 02:19PM

my two cents on everything written here.

i was baptised in a catholic church, simply because when i was a baby most of the people my mother was friends with were catholic. she wasn't religious in anyway.

so then we were no longer going to the catholic church when it came time for me to attend primary school. my mother wanted to get me into the protestant primary school (i believe she thought it the better school on whatever grounds). they however would not take me as i was baptised catholic and my mother was not attending protestant church. so i was sent to the local catholic school.

when i was 5 (senior infants) my mother started attending the local protestant church, so for whatever reason when we started doing religion in first class the teacher wouldn't let me participate at all. i wasn't even allowed to just sit with my classmates whilst they learnt all their bits and pieces. i was made sit at the back of the class, facing the back wall. CRUEL to do to a six year old. it basically ostracised me and called me different.

then my class made their holy communion. my mother thought it would be nice if she took me along to see all my classmates making it. well i was in tears. i didn't understand why i wasn't there all pretty in white with the rest of them and felt like a waste of space!

the communions were not quite as money grabbing then as they are now but still.

so my observations from this small piece is i can understand why parents pretend to be from a certain religion - a, so their kids will fit in. if schools won't let children participate - to the point of shutting them out like i was - you would pretend so your YOUNG child doesn't face that kind of problems.
b, as i was not allowed into the protestant school (i did change after third class, my mother was in the protestant church by this time) being baptised catholic and her having no religion, parents would 'play a part' to get their children into the school they want them in.

i also think that communion is done way to young. the children have no real concept of what is going on, and just think it is a day out to dress pretty, get lots of presents and money and what not. i don't think anybody should be taking a sacrament without full knowledge of what is behind it.

in the protestant church they don't do communion. it is at the same time as you making your confirmation. and this isn't done at a set time either (like sixth class for catholics). it is done when you as an individual feel ready, and you take a lot of confirmation classes with the pastor before hand to properly prepare you for it. so you know what it is all about. if at the end of the classes the pastor doesn't think you are ready he will not sign off on you taking confirmation. i think this is a much better way to do things.

as for the big cars and all that the op mentioned. unfortunately that is no longer confined to 'certain groups' as some people say. average little boys and girls want the same princess treatments now!

Knight who says Meh · 08-05-2011 02:27PM

cassi wrote: »

Ehhhh.... Where are you seeing this OP??

Longford. Mullingar. Castlebar. Athenry.

hondasam · 08-05-2011 02:32PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

Longford. Mullingar. Castlebar. Athenry.

you go to a lot of Holy communions !

Knight who says Meh · 08-05-2011 04:07PM

hondasam wrote: »

you go to a lot of Holy communions !

I visit a lot of towns. They are the ones i have been in lately. Pink Hummers Ahoy!!!!!

Kristopherus · 08-05-2011 04:23PM

Channel 4's next docu will be "My Big Fat Holy Communion":D

hdowney · 08-05-2011 04:24PM

gah pink stretch hummers are the mankiest thing ever. worse than white stretch limos for real. urgh

dvpower · 08-05-2011 04:32PM

irish-stew wrote: »

Everyone in the class automatically prepared for their commumion during class time, with instruction carried out by the teacher, with the parish priest only getting invloved once or twice.

With almost a quarter of Irish people leaving school functionally illiterate, you'd think they'ed put this time to better use and leave the churches to do religious instruction outside school hours.

Zebra3 · 08-05-2011 04:33PM

dvpower wrote: »

With almost a quarter of Irish people leaving school functionally illiterate, you'd think they'ed put this time to better use and leave the churches to do religious instruction outside school hours.

I agree. :pac:

byhookorbycrook · 08-05-2011 05:25PM

Pauleta wrote: »

I think its time schools put the foot down and made these things uniform only. The churches also should have Communions on school days, so the kids still go in at 9, make their communion at around 11 and then let them feck off to scab money off relatives.

I'd like to see you try to get that through.
Anyhow, sacraments are meant to be part of the parish, not the school day.

MetalDog · 08-05-2011 05:30PM

If I ever have a family, none of 'em are going to do communion, confirmation or any of that sh!teology. Complete and utter bollocks the lot of it.

southsiderosie · 08-05-2011 06:17PM

hondasam wrote: »

who will teach them about Holy communion ?

who's choice is it The parents or the child's ?

hondasam wrote: »

how is the church going to teach them ? you proposing weekly meetings with the priest ?

parents who's kids make first holy communion are not necessarily religious themselves.

irish-stew wrote: »

Everyone in the class automatically prepared for their commumion during class time, with instruction carried out by the teacher, with the parish priest only getting invloved once or twice..

It is ridiculous that class time is being used to prepare for communion. This is something that can happen after school or on the weekend.

I was raised Catholic in the US, but went to public (i.e. secular) schools until I was 18. Ever Sunday, we had to go to mass, and then my brothers and I went to Sunday School for an hour afterwards. We all made communion just fine (and confirmation and First Confession and the like).

Given that kids seem to see communion as a way to get money off of friends and family and not as a major religious milestone, I'm not exactly sure what the point of months of preparation is anyway.

mgmt · 08-05-2011 06:27PM

hondasam wrote: »

I assume you are talking about Travellers op. It's one day leave them alone.

You should see the "blessing of the graves" in my local town. The whole town goes down to the cemetery to pray for their deceased relatives. The graveyard is packed each year. Each year there is also a parade of mini-skirts and hoopy earrings, supping cans, down to the traveller plots. The traveller graves are also something that must be seen to be believed. Hugh outlandish things.

Tim Robbins · 10-05-2011 05:07PM

Witchie wrote: »

Not at all smeggy. My sons have been baptized, made communion and confirmation ONLY to ensure they can go to the best schools in my small town coz i want the best for them and if it means lying to some poxy man-made cult, so be it.

I have never been to a commuion or confirmation in a pub and have only seen a few so can't really comment.

I see religious instruction as the complete opposite to education. You are telling people not to question, not to appreciate uncertainty and not to look for reliable evidence before believing things.

Irish education is pretty awful. It's based on regurgitation and learning things off by heart. Communion is a celebration of ignorance for some and hypocrisy for others. Oh and of course nurturing greed in little kids who only care about how much money they get.

It's a pathetic reflection of humanity.

van der vart · 10-05-2011 09:47PM

dvpower wrote: »

I think this should be changed. It should be an arrangement between the kid (and the parents) and the church. The church shouldn't be delagating this to a state service and a state service shouldn't be taking over this burden from a church.

I know. Its pretty pathetic that parents would bring their children into a religion just so they don't feel left out, isn't it?

It looks like the delegating of the responsibility of preperation for communion from the church to the school system isn't working too well.

The kid, now we have young goats in the church, where will it end

reitseal · 10-05-2011 10:16PM

dvpower wrote: »

I think this should be changed. It should be an arrangement between the kid (and the parents) and the church. The church shouldn't be delagating this to a state service and a state service shouldn't be taking over this burden from a church.

I know. Its pretty pathetic that parents would bring their children into a religion just so they don't feel left out, isn't it?

It looks like the delegating of the responsibility of preperation for communion from the church to the school system isn't working too well.

Can I just give you some support here and say I agree with every point you've made. Unfortunately the sheep mentality in this country means that people will still trot out the usual cr%p about little johnny having to go thru the motions so he'll fit in instead of getting off their *rses and doing something about the status quo... Sure as long as someone else is doing all the work eh :mad:

Full church and state separation in the education system ta v much - bring it on imo, then let's see how much work parents are prepared to put into having young saoirse communed and confirmed..

partyatmygaff · 10-05-2011 10:30PM

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Irish education is pretty awful.

Every country thinks its own ______ system is awful. It's better than the majority of other countries in the world. For a country as small as Ireland we've had a lot of people who've achieved great things.

It's based on regurgitation and learning things off by heart.

It sure is :rolleyes:

I just completed a practical Engineering exam for my Leaving Cert. Care to explain where regurgitation and "learning things off" came in to play in that? While you're at it... could you let me know how I can just "learn things off" for HL Maths. It'd be a great help.

Communion is a celebration of ignorance for some and hypocrisy for others.

Ignorance of what? Your obviously "enlightened" and superior opinion of things? If someone genuinely wants to have their child receive communion I see nothing wrong with that. Perhaps it would be better to have it as an extra-curricular affair however.

Oh and of course nurturing greed in little kids who only care about how much money they get.

That's not the fault of communion. It's the fault of parents. Using that faulty logic birthdays are equally culpable in nurturing greed.

It's a pathetic reflection of humanity.

Save the "Woe is humanity" philosophical one-liners for a LC English essay.

southsiderosie · 11-05-2011 01:14AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Every country thinks its own ______ system is awful. It's better than the majority of other countries in the world. For a country as small as Ireland we've had a lot of people who've achieved great things.

But objectively the Irish educational system has declined significantly over the last decade, especially in comparison to other OECD countries. Given that Ireland is trying to maintain its reputation internationally as a hub for technological investment with the benefit of a well-educated English speaking workforce, and given that the cost of that workforce has increased significantly since the 1990s, the state better damn well be sure that they are at least getting the well-educated part right. Which makes the inordinate amount of time spent on religious education all the more absurd.

partyatmygaff · 11-05-2011 01:33AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

But objectively the Irish educational system has declined significantly over the last decade, especially in comparison to other OECD countries. Given that Ireland is trying to maintain its reputation internationally as a hub for technological investment with the benefit of a well-educated English speaking workforce, and given that the cost of that workforce has increased significantly since the 1990s, the state better damn well be sure that they are at least getting the well-educated part right. Which makes the inordinate amount of time spent on religious education all the more absurd.

There is no correlation.

The time spent on religious education has not increased over the past few years. Yet the standard of education has fallen.

Obviously something else is to blame for this drop in standard as time and resources for religious education has remained constant over the past few years. Something else it to blame but it's not religious education that's causing the standard of education to fall in any case.

southsiderosie · 11-05-2011 02:01AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

There is no correlation.

The time spent on religious education has not increased over the past few years. Yet the standard of education has fallen.

Obviously something else is to blame for this drop in standard as time and resources for religious education has remained constant over the past few years. Something else it to blame but it's not religious education that's causing the standard of education to fall in any case.

Where did I say there was correlation? I simply said that standards have declined, and in light of that fact, perhaps more class time should be spent on the basics of reading, writing, and math, rather than the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Especially since it is not unprecedented for Catholics to receive the bulk of their religious education through weekend and evening activities in their parish, rather than during the school day.

reitseal · 11-05-2011 10:14AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

But objectively the Irish educational system has declined significantly over the last decade, especially in comparison to other OECD countries. Given that Ireland is trying to maintain its reputation internationally as a hub for technological investment with the benefit of a well-educated English speaking workforce, and given that the cost of that workforce has increased significantly since the 1990s, the state better damn well be sure that they are at least getting the well-educated part right. Which makes the inordinate amount of time spent on religious education all the more absurd.[/QUOTE

It's pretty obvious from the rubbish written standards on forums etc that the standard of education here is going nowhere but down, and that won't be helped by recent cutbacks to educational resources.

There may be no proof that the vast amount of time spent on religion in the majority of Irish schools has contributed to the decline in standards, but that doesn't really matter. If that time isn't going to be spent on the curriculum, why can't it be spent on field trips, culture trips, learning music, doing gardening - hell, any number of generally educational things rather than something that should be done outside school by whatever church, and the parents, ie religion.

Bottom line, the more people who stand up for what they believe in and stop going with the flow just to make their lives easier as they see it, the sooner things will change.

Tim Robbins · 12-05-2011 09:38PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I just completed a practical Engineering exam for my Leaving Cert. Care to explain where regurgitation and "learning things off" came in to play in that? While you're at it... could you let me know how I can just "learn things off" for HL Maths. It'd be a great help.

I've an engineering degree and a maths degree and I'd still stick to my opinions. But it's a reasonable argument you have.

There's definitely more problem solving and logical thinking in Maths.
But there is not enough emphasis on project work and things where you have to think for yourself and look at things critically.

Shameless Communion day

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