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Shameless Communion day

2

Comments

  • #32
    Witchie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭Witchie


    Not at all smeggy. My sons have been baptized, made communion and confirmation ONLY to ensure they can go to the best schools in my small town coz i want the best for them and if it means lying to some poxy man-made cult, so be it.

    I have never been to a commuion or confirmation in a pub and have only seen a few so can't really comment.


  • #33
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    dvpower wrote: »
    If someone wants (their child) to make their communion, that's entirely their own personal choice. I can see no good reason why the state education system should be involved in this at all.

    who will teach them about Holy communion ?

    who's choice is it The parents or the child's ?


  • #34
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Probably because without the Catholic Church, our education system would be years behind what it is now.

    Well that's very debatable, but put aside the fact that the education system is involved in communions and the historical context for their involvement.
    The question is should they be involved (and in this case that they should be more involved than they currently are).

    There are currently 3 parties that take place in a Communion - the church, the child (and parents) and the school.
    There is absolutely no need for the school to be involved at all. We don't have the local GAA club involved in it or the local ballet school or the scouts. Why the school?


  • #35
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    Not satin anythin like!


  • #36
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    hondasam wrote: »
    who will teach them about Holy communion ?
    The church and the parents, of course. :confused:


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  • #37
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    dvpower wrote: »
    Well that's very debatable, but put aside the fact that the education system is involved in communions and the historical context for their involvement.
    The question is should they be involved (and in this case that they should be more involved than they currently are).

    There are currently 3 parties that take place in a Communion - the church, the child (and parents) and the school.
    There is absolutely no need for the school to be involved at all. We don't have the local GAA club involved in it or the local ballet school or the scouts. Why the school?

    Because the majority of schools are run by the Catholic church.


  • #38
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    dvpower wrote: »
    The church and the parents, of course. :confused:

    how is the church going to teach them ? you proposing weekly meetings with the priest ?

    parents who's kids make first holy communion are not necessarily religious themselves.


  • #39
    goose2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Probably because without the Catholic Church, our education system would be years behind what it is now.

    Or years ahead.


  • #40
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Because the majority of schools are run by the Catholic church.
    While there is some truth in this (they are the school patrons in most cases), you're just telling me how things are.

    What I'm trying to get to is why the schools should be involved in communions, not why they can be.


  • #41
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    hondasam wrote: »
    how is the church going to teach them ? you proposing weekly meetings with the priest ? parents who's kids make first holy communion are not necessarily religious themselves.

    Pretty much on the ball. Sunday School after mass on a Sunday too. Parents who are not religious should NOT send their children forward.

    BTW, I hold the view that no child should be instructed in any religion. That's my own personal view.

    But Church and School are separating and the way forward will be by the Priest or volunteer teachers in the School after class or the Church Hall and during Sunday School.

    And we need those teachers as ushers in the church on the big day.


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  • #42
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    hondasam wrote: »
    how is the church going to teach them ? you proposing weekly meetings with the priest ?
    Yes. Call me old fashioned, but if a child is preparing for first holy communion, they might benefit from some preperation from the organisation that they are getting themselves into.

    How do you think the non catholic kids attending primary schools in Ireland get prepared for their religious milestones?


  • #43
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    gbee wrote: »
    Pretty much on the ball. Sunday School after mass on a Sunday too. Parents who are not religious should NOT send their children forward.

    BTW, I hold the view that no child should be instructed in any religion. That's my own personal view.

    But Church and School are separating and the way forward will be by the Priest or volunteer teachers in the School after class or the Church Hall and during Sunday School.

    And we need those teachers as ushers in the church on the big day.

    It's not fair to punish the child because of their parents view on religion.


  • #44
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    hondasam wrote: »
    It's not fair to punish the child because of their parents view on religion.
    I can't even begin to imagine what you mean.


  • #45
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    hondasam wrote: »
    It's not fair to punish the child because of their parents view on religion.

    What punish?

    I think if one is NOT religious then one is punishing one's child to be something oneself is not.


  • #46
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    dvpower wrote: »
    I can't even begin to imagine what you mean.

    are you saying parents have to be religious for their children to make holy communion ?

    what if the child want's it but the parents don't ?


  • #47
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    gbee wrote: »
    What punish?

    I think if one is NOT religious then one is punishing one's child to be something oneself is not.

    I don't understand what you are saying here.


  • #48
    ICE HOUSE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 278 ✭✭ICE HOUSE


    Knight who says Meh wrote: »
    Pink shirted skin head Dads
    Follically challanged men wearing pink shirts.I dont see the problem tbh. :confused::confused::confused:


  • #49
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    hondasam wrote: »
    are you saying parents have to be religious for their children to make holy communion ?
    Not necessarity. But I find it hard to imagine an 8 year old kid making any kind of informed decision on their own in the first place.

    I'd say it would usually be best for a child in this position to hold off until they were older - I'd have to suspect that the only reason they would have for making their communion is for the day out and the attention and the cash.


  • #50
    NomdePlume
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 156 ✭✭NomdePlume


    hondasam wrote: »
    are you saying parents have to be religious for their children to make holy communion ?

    what if the child want's it but the parents don't ?

    Surely yes, the parents have to be religious.
    If they weren't, they wouldn't have had their child baptised into the Church.


  • #51
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    hondasam.

    Find and read the story of 'Little Nelly of Holy God'

    It goes part way to furthering your question as regards the child's ascendancy to First Holy Communion. Prior to 'Little Nelly of Holy God' children could not go for First Holy communion before the age of 12 years of age and pass an examination by the BISHOP of both the child and the parents.

    It's a good story.


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  • #52
    The Orb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 600 ✭✭✭The Orb


    This thread has totally moved away from the OP's post.


  • #53
    slavetothegrind
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭slavetothegrind


    hondasam wrote: »
    are you saying parents have to be religious for their children to make holy communion ?

    yes, as i understand it they do, they have to take an oath at the ceremony do they not?
    promising to bring the child up in the faith?

    a friend of mine, nonreligeous, had to have his child attend a catholic school for lack of choice, and ended up respecting his son's wishes to make his communion and having difficulty in getting his son baptised etc.
    a child that age just doesn't want to be different, he is no more aware of a vocation faith etc, than his dog is.

    and in all of the above the parents had to lie to the church regarding their intention to school him in the faith they are not part of.


  • #54
    slavetothegrind
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭slavetothegrind


    The Orb wrote: »
    This thread has totally moved away from the OP's post.

    it has, sorry.


  • #55
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    The Orb wrote: »
    This thread has totally moved away from the OP's post.

    Why? are we not shouting abuse at each other from white monitors? :)


  • #56
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    NomdePlume wrote: »
    Surely yes, the parents have to be religious.
    If they weren't, they wouldn't have had their child baptised into the Church.
    If the parents who were sending their kids forward for communion reflected a bit more on the meaning of the thing in the first place, we would have much less of the kind of displays that the OP talks about.
    The Orb wrote: »
    This thread has totally moved away from the OP's post.
    Save.:)


  • #57
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    I think what the OP is experiencing is mainly in the citys and large towns, dont think its as bad in small town Ireland, have not been to First Communion, or even a confirmation cermony in a while, and most looked quite normal and civilised.

    Yes you did have the odd kid turning up in a big fancy car, looking all blinged, with the orange skinned mum wobbling on her heals, following behind, but thankfully thats a rare thing.

    If anything, the baptism parties are worse, and closer to what the OP is discribing.


    NomdePlume wrote: »
    Surely yes, the parents have to be religious.
    If they weren't, they wouldn't have had their child baptised into the Church.

    Not always. I know plenty of parents, may have been baptised and brought up in the church them selves. As they got older, stopped going to mass, etc. But now want to get their kids into a good school, usally a catholic one, and the kid needs to be catholic and baptised to get a better chance of getting in.


  • #58
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    irish-stew wrote: »
    Not always. I know plenty of parents, may have been baptised and brought up in the church them selves. As they got older, stopped going to mass, etc. But now want to get their kids into a good school, usally a catholic one, and the kid needs to be catholic and baptised to get a better chance of getting in.
    If they're only baptising them to get them into a school, they don't have to continue the charade at communion time.


  • #59
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    dvpower wrote: »
    If they're only baptising them to get them into a school, they don't have to continue the charade at communion time.

    Some first communions though are still organised by the school, rather than the church or the parish priest deciding who gets their first communion.

    The parents go along with it to give little Johnny or Mary a day out, so that they dont get left out.


  • #60
    cassi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭cassi


    Ehhhh.... Where are you seeing this OP??


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  • #61
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    irish-stew wrote: »
    Some first communions though are still organised by the school, rather than the church or the parish priest deciding who gets their first communion.
    I think this should be changed. It should be an arrangement between the kid (and the parents) and the church. The church shouldn't be delagating this to a state service and a state service shouldn't be taking over this burden from a church.
    irish-stew wrote: »
    The parents go along with it to give little Johnny or Mary a day out, so that they dont get left out.
    I know. Its pretty pathetic that parents would bring their children into a religion just so they don't feel left out, isn't it?

    It looks like the delegating of the responsibility of preperation for communion from the church to the school system isn't working too well.


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