What really happened Osama bin Laden

My name is URL wrote: »

They are all listed here

Last one was released in January of this year

That was an audio tape. I believe it is 4 or 5 years since a video was released with a moving image of him in it.

My name is URL wrote: »

My mistake.. I misread ajraf's post

No problem. It's actually something else to consider. No video since 2007 and even then he didn't look himself if ya know what I mean.



2004 (his previous appearance on video) on the left and 2007 on the right. Looks like he got the "Just for Men" out for the beard.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

It may be the light, be he definitely looks a bit jaundiced in the later picture.

He looks fairly banjaxed in the 2007 image alright. Also the dyed beard is a bit curious.

Just a note on those points:

Chipboard wrote: »

They found him but instead of dropping a bomb on him they risked their lives and his possible escape by sending in SEALS.

He was in a city or a nation the US isn't at war with. In fact, they're sort of an ally, aren't they?

Even though he was unarmed and they stated that they wanted to take him alive, they killed him. I don't believe this for a moment. Surely a highly trained SEAL would be able to immobilise OBL. In fact when you think about it, surely there would be so much propaganda value in taking him prisoner that they would have done all in their power to do so and would have achieved it, had he been unarmed.

This I'm not sure about, as I've read mixed reports. Some are saying it was a kill order and others saying it was a capture order, but he was killed. It doesn't make sense to me that they'd go out to kill him. His capture would be a huge political victory, it would have been the show trial of the century and OBL no doubt would be privy to a lot of information that the US would want to get their hands on.

If it was a capture order gone wrong, it makes more sense as they say, no plan survives first contact with the enemy. It could have been accidental and they're just trying to save face.

Or, maybe they didn't want to risk OBL saying something that shouldn't be made public.

If he wasn't armed why did they have to shoot him up so badly that they now say the photos are gruesome.

They'd use automatic weapons. He'd have been sprayed with bullets in a short burst, which would fairly rip him open.

His wife who they killed is now alive but has a bad limp. How they hell could anyone, especially a military person get a detail as important as this wrong.

There's be a lot of confused reports right after anything like this. Sure they announced WT7 fell before it actually did.

They confirmed his identity by getting the fastest DNA test in the history of DNA tests (it must have been like one if those pin prick cholesterol tests you buy in the chemists). I'm sure the US has probably perfected the art of the fast DNA test for identifying their victims but it seems almost too efficient to be true.

As said above, it doesn't take a huge amount of time these days.

Because they respect Muslims so much they buried him really quickly and at sea, a convenient side effect of which is that we will never know what happened.

But also you don't get fanatics using the fact that his body wasn't buried as another reason to riot/bomb places. Plus, burying it anywhere on land would open up the possibility of the fanatics trying to recover it or people who hated him trying to desecrate the grave. It's not really worth the hassle, if you look at it from that point of view.

You would think that the States has enough conspiracy theories (man on the moon, JFK, etc) that if they could they would ensure that this doesn't become another.

The thing is, the US doesn't owe us any answers. They don't have to pander to us, just because we refuse to take their word for it. And who knows, if people are talking about this, then maybe they won't be talking about the US deficit.

Chipboard wrote: »

I've never posted a conspiracy theory before. Seeing as a multitude of people from a range of different sectors of society are calling for proof of OBL's demise, I don't think this really is a conspiracy theory in the way we normally think of conspiracy theories.

There are several pieces to this story that don't add up;

1. They found him but instead of dropping a bomb on him they risked their lives and his possible escape by sending in SEALS.
2. Even though he was unarmed and they stated that they wanted to take him alive, they killed him. I don't believe this for a moment. Surely a highly trained SEAL would be able to immobilise OBL. In fact when you think about it, surely there would be so much propaganda value in taking him prisoner that they would have done all in their power to do so and would have achieved it, had he been unarmed.
3. If he wasn't armed why did they have to shoot him up so badly that they now say the photos are gruesome.
4. His wife who they killed is now alive but has a bad limp. How they hell could anyone, especially a military person get a detail as important as this wrong.
5. They confirmed his identity by getting the fastest DNA test in the history of DNA tests (it must have been like one if those pin prick cholesterol tests you buy in the chemists). I'm sure the US has probably perfected the art of the fast DNA test for identifying their victims but it seems almost too efficient to be true.
6. Because they respect Muslims so much they buried him really quickly and at sea, a convenient side effect of which is that we will never know what happened.

You would think that the States has enough conspiracy theories (man on the moon, JFK, etc) that if they could they would ensure that this doesn't become another.

I don't know what happened to OBL but if I were to hazard a guess I'd say that the powers that be only became aware that he is dead, recently. Maybe they killed him in a missile attack a couple of years ago but didn't know it until now or maybe he died of heart failure, kidney failure etc and they only got confirmation of it lately. There was no propaganda value in just announcing it so they staged a firefight.

I'm sure there are holes in this theory but its at least as credible as the official story.

Most rational input to this thread I've seen.

My name is URL wrote: »

They seem to have had no such moral dilemma when deciding to release images of the unidentified corpses..

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/141342/20110504/osama-dead-new-photos-inside-the-compound.htm

A graphic content warning is advisable.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Who released these pictures? Are you sure it was the US?

They came via Reuters I believe. According to the Guardian.co.uk:

Pictures allegedly showing the results of US special forces' assault on Osama bin Laden's hideout in Abbottabad. Reuters, who released all but the first picture shown here, have said: 'The photos [were] taken by a Pakistani security official who entered the compound after the early morning raid on Monday. The official, who wished to remain anonymous, sold the pictures. Reuters is confident in their authenticity'.

Something else interesting from this raid is the apparent use of a new type of helicopter by US forces:





Good assessment in this link:
Link

How the fook it crashed is another question?!

Monty Burnz wrote: »

At a glance, it looks like they've armoured the weak points. I don't know if it crashed - I heard that it stalled, and perhaps took some damage when it went down (perhaps broke the tail over the wall?). The Seals blew it up before leaving.

Looks more than armour. The skin is rivetless to reduce the radar profile and the paint looks like radar absorbing stuff.

Here is a regular Black Hawk tail:



Looks like a special ops helo also the newer helo has 5 rear blades versus 4 on a normal one.

namloc1980 wrote: »

The US have been launching many drone attacks inside Pakistani territory for some years now so this would be nothing new.

They have the Pakistani governments permission for those and they aren't targeting cities. They'd never get away with bombing a city to hit one target. Plus, it's a silly thing to do because they won't have any confirmation of the kill. If they bombed the compound and OBL wasn't there, he'd go to ground for another 10 years.

When they come out a' whoopin and a' hollerin like they have over this they are looking for all the kudos but providing nothing in the way of answers. Certainly the American taxpayer who pays for these military ventures deserves answers when their Govt is making such a public display over this.

The thing is, a lot of the american voters don't want answers. Obama's ratings jumped by something like 11% when the news broke. A lot of them don't care how it happened, only that it did. And the government aren't really making a huge display over this. It's been pretty low-key in fairness.

Chipboard wrote: »

Fair point but I don't think that would have stopped them - they breached the sovereignty of Pakistan and insulted their government afterwards by saying they couldn't be trusted to keep a secret.

Well we all know the US would never dream of breaching another nations sovereignty. :pac: As I said to Namloc1980, there's also the fact that they'd need the confirm the kill. It'd be such a PR disaster if the mission failed and word got out.

I don't think that they're saving face. I think they look pretty stupid right now.

In what way though? They put out a message to the world that the US is not to be f*cked with. That someone who is idolised by fanatics was shot while unarmed and his corpse dumped in a body of water, as if he meant nothing.

I've used automatic weapons. You don't have to spray, its a choice. It varies with the weapon but if you keep the pressure on they generally ride up and only the first couple of shots hit the target. The less powerful ones don't ride up but they don't do as much damage either.

By spray, I don't mean they just held the trigger and emptied a magazine, but that they fired small bursts of bullets at their targets. So it would be unlikley to be one single bullet that killed him. The body could have bullet wounds anywhere on it (I don't think we've been given the details yet, have we?), so if one bullet hit his face, it'd be fairly nasty looking.

There's also the possibility that some of the seals could have shot the body a few times afterwards. OBL is responsible for a lot of deaths, so it's possible one of them wanted to shoot up the body as some sort of macho payback.

Of course, without the details I'm just coming up with possibilities.

Thats a whole other conspiracy theory.... You would think that the SEAL team would have to submit written reports back to their commander and that these would be accurate enough, certainly in terms of who died:who lived at least.

But these things take time. It could have been a case of Chinese Whispers:

SEAL to man 1: We killed OBL and shot his wife

Man 1 to Man 2: They shot and killed OBL and his wife

I think that if it had really gone down as they stated, his body wouldn't be buried at all yet. I don't think they have any respect for Muslims or Muslim practice or anyone really.

There are Muslims, fanatics and those in between. The burying of the body, in my mind, would be for the benefit of the third group. They want to be seen to respect Islam to reduce the amount of Muslims who may think that they must fight america as it disrespects them.

Maybe not but we facilitated the US war machine (Shannon) so you could argue that future decisions to do or not do so, could be based on what they do when they are 'on location'. Surely we would have to look at that.

Even if what the say is true, I think its stinks and I can't believe the way it is being applauded by supposedly civil governments. WTF does Enda Kenny think he's doing. Will the Irish Army be going out on shoot to kill missions next. There is a reason for due process. We would all hope that OBL would get a fair trial and a quick execution. Sending a bunch of assassins after him is barbaric.

Nelson Mandela was once regarded as a terrorist by the US - imagine ow different things would be if they killed him?

I fully agree. If they were sent in to kill him it's utterly insane. I think the benefits of capturing him alive would have been immense. Politically, it'd guarantee Obama keeps office for another term, because anytime his popularity wained he could just release some more info about OBL. It doesn't make any sense to me that they'd go out to kill him and abandon everything that the US supposedly stands for.

fontanalis wrote: »

No I'm not; photos were released. They weren't what they seemed. The skynews link doesn't say the white house said they were live. They were still watching footage. More fuel for the conspiracy theory cottage industry. And they sure as hell aren't faked like some claims.

Could you explain the highlighted text to me please?