Feedback/Suggestions

ibarelycare · 21-04-2011 11:58am

My name is URL wrote: »

I've not read all the posts and don't really know what the issue is regarding Tallon, but in relation to the thanks and POTD thing, how about simply making posts in YLYL illegible for POTD while continuing to allow thanks?

Yeah I think that's a great idea, I was thinking the same myself but wasn't sure if it would even be possible.

themadchef · 21-04-2011 11:59am

ibarelycare wrote: »

Frada said "I've already apologised if I behaved vindictively"...I didn't see this apology, but if he apologised privately to Tallon or if he apologised elsewhere and I missed it then fair enough.

But then he goes on to say "but I still think that Tallon's Facebook feeds should remain off YLYL. They attract far too much attention from either people who hate them or the thread risks degenerating into a chat-through-picture thread with an off-site clique."

It's not fair to single out one person. Either it's a rule for everyone or not a rule at all. But anyway, I think Dr.B has already addressed this and it's just not going to be allowed anymore.

As for the "clique" thing, that's such BS! I can't remember there ever being a situation like this before where someone posted up a screenshot of their FB status and then someone else followed up on it. If people thought it was "cliquish" or "pants" then why did it get so many thanks? This is a one-off (AFAIK) incident, not an ongoing problem :rolleyes:

From what i read \ my perception on this thread the mods are currently discussing the situation.

No, i dont imagine you were ever involved in a FB screen shot episode \ whatever you want to call it before, there's no other public part of Boards that would allow it.

Yee are dragging private stuff into the forums, and while it may all be fun and giggles for you now what happens when friendships turn to shít down the line (and trust me, the best of them can)...hen what, Help desk thread? Poor me, how can he do this? When a precedent has already been set on YLYL that it's open season where private off site stuff is being dragged on here. Alot of people have FB set to private.

This is a public forum. Keep the private stuff private. We really dont need to know who you or anyone elses friends are with or what great craic your facebook page is. Keep it anonymous, or keep it out. That's pretty much it really.

Penn · 21-04-2011 12:15pm

Exactly. Like I said, if you want to post up something from your own Facebook, hide the names and pictures completely with different colours to differentiate who said what. It's as simple as that. If other people don't find it as funny because they don't know the people involved or whatever, move along.

As for 'Thanks', I found YLYL because of a post getting POTD, as I'm sure many other people, whether they post or not, have. People aren't posting stuff to be a thanks whore, because if they're not posting something genuinely funny, it's not going to be thanked. Sometimes if I've fallen behind a lot, or am waiting for images to load (slow ass broadband connection), I'll use the amount of thanks a post gets as a guide for which posts are worth looking at and which ones I can skip. I see nothing wrong with the thanks function. It also gives people a guide "These pictures aren't that funny, but those types get loads of thanks", which, whether the poster is thanks whoring or not, means funnier pictures get posted. Isnt that a good thing?

CrazyRabbit · 21-04-2011 1:10pm

'Thanks' gives everyone a good idea of what people generally find funny...and what they don't find funny.

And as I mentioned previously, if 'Thanks' whores post funny pics just to get thanks, then I don't see how it harms anyone. I'm just grateful for another funny pic to look at.

I'm struggling to find any geniune reasons for removing the Thanks feature. Can anyone give an example of when it has caused problems in YLYL?

Buceph · 21-04-2011 1:53pm

So let me get this straight.

Tallon posted a picture he thought was funny.
Someone then posted a picture insulting Tallon, which loads of people (including a mod) thought was hilarious enough to be thanked.
Crap ensues.
A mod, who previously thanked a post insulting Tallon, gives out to and blames Tallon for what happened.
More crap ensues.
Now we have a thread of pro and anti-Tallons, pro and anti-Mods and everyone else, with a few "DON'T TOUCH MY THANKS BUTTAN" posts thrown in.

Why is Tallon getting any hassle for this? Sure he should blank people's names from Facebook (including his own), but I'm guessing there's loads of images from Facebook that have people's names in them in that thread.

A mod indirectly supported "insult Tallon day" then went on to blame Tallon for the crap that the mod himself partly caused by allowing and supporting the insult.

The people at fault here appear to be Tallon's insulter and the mod.

That Tallon knows his insulter and knows she meant it as a joke is irrelevant, no-one else knows that, the mods may not know it, and just because the immediate parties to the insult know it's friendly banter doesn't mean anyone else should know, that it should be tolerated by some special insider knowledge rule, and it's definitely the case that insulting people shouldn't be encouraged.

Seems like a ****heap to me. Punish the insulter who should know not to take the piss out of people in the thread and punish the mod who acted totally un-mod-like.

OutlawPete · 21-04-2011 2:58pm

Buceph wrote: »

That Tallon knows his insulter and knows she meant it as a joke is irrelevant, no-one else knows that, the mods may not know it, and just because the immediate parties to the insult know it's friendly banter doesn't mean anyone else should know, that it should be tolerated by some special insider knowledge rule, and it's definitely the case that insulting people shouldn't be encouraged.

In fairness, all that is just part and parcel of an Internet forum. There will always be jokes that some people get and some people don't whenever members banter back and forth. Regulars on the thread know that Tallon and iBC do and that's what made it funny. They are not the first users on that thread to do this and I doubt they will be the last.

Many times I don't get some of the banter there, but I can usually tell the difference between what is light-hearted and what isn't. Seen a few memes and the like slagging Tallon before, but they were always made in good spirit and included him in on the joke, this time some did anything but - they were made to make a point, have a dig and so people could laugh AT him, rather than WITH him - to say otherwise is to be disingenuous quite frankly.

I couldn't care less(and don't see why anyone would) if users were 'thanks-whoring' all day long on that thread, if all they are trying to do is make EVERYONE laugh. Why would there be an issue with that? That's what the thread is for. Where I see the problem is with those that are just posting in an effort to make a sub-set of users laugh and all at someone else's expense, as they to me are the real 'thanks-whores'. It's playground stuff, the internet equivalent of picking on the small kid.

EDIT: The video below would be more apt if there was a also some cats in it, not just kittens.

Sykk · 21-04-2011 3:19pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abn9yziChlw

ibarelycare · 21-04-2011 3:30pm

themadchef wrote: »

From what i read \ my perception on this thread the mods are currently discussing the situation.

No, i dont imagine you were ever involved in a FB screen shot episode \ whatever you want to call it before, there's no other public part of Boards that would allow it.

Yee are dragging private stuff into the forums, and while it may all be fun and giggles for you now what happens when friendships turn to shít down the line (and trust me, the best of them can)...hen what, Help desk thread? Poor me, how can he do this? When a precedent has already been set on YLYL that it's open season where private off site stuff is being dragged on here. Alot of people have FB set to private.

This is a public forum. Keep the private stuff private. We really dont need to know who you or anyone elses friends are with or what great craic your facebook page is. Keep it anonymous, or keep it out. That's pretty much it really.

Ok fair enough, I can see where you're coming from after reading Barrington's post. People's identities should be completely blocked out. Pictures, full names, etc. Including that of the poster, if they're involved in the conversation.

But this is by and large an isolated incident. The way you and a few others have been talking on this thread, you'd think it was something that was done constantly. It's not, at all. So this is why I'm confused as to where the "clique" element is coming into it.

Buceph wrote: »

So let me get this straight.

Tallon posted a picture he thought was funny.
Someone then posted a picture insulting Tallon, which loads of people (including a mod) thought was hilarious enough to be thanked.
Crap ensues.
A mod, who previously thanked a post insulting Tallon, gives out to and blames Tallon for what happened.
More crap ensues.
Now we have a thread of pro and anti-Tallons, pro and anti-Mods and everyone else, with a few "DON'T TOUCH MY THANKS BUTTAN" posts thrown in.

Why is Tallon getting any hassle for this? Sure he should blank people's names from Facebook (including his own), but I'm guessing there's loads of images from Facebook that have people's names in them in that thread.

A mod indirectly supported "insult Tallon day" then went on to blame Tallon for the crap that the mod himself partly caused by allowing and supporting the insult.

The people at fault here appear to be Tallon's insulter and the mod.

That Tallon knows his insulter and knows she meant it as a joke is irrelevant, no-one else knows that, the mods may not know it, and just because the immediate parties to the insult know it's friendly banter doesn't mean anyone else should know, that it should be tolerated by some special insider knowledge rule, and it's definitely the case that insulting people shouldn't be encouraged.

Seems like a ****heap to me. Punish the insulter who should know not to take the piss out of people in the thread and punish the mod who acted totally un-mod-like.

I think you're referring to me as the "insulter" here? Well...yes I suppose I did insult Tallon in YLYL, using Facebook as a platform. But he did the same to me in his post before mine. So in that regard, we both broke the rules, as well as everyone else who posted after that insulting Tallon and technically, we all should have been infracted.

Buceph · 21-04-2011 3:39pm

OutlawPete wrote: »

Many times I don't get some of the banter there, but I can usually tell the difference between what is light-hearted and what isn't. Seen a few memes and the like slagging Tallon before, but they were always made in good spirit and included him in on the joke, this time some did anything but - they were made to make a point, have a dig and so people could laugh AT him, rather than WITH him - to say otherwise is to be disingenuous quite frankly.

I couldn't care less(and don't see why anyone would) if users were 'thanks-whoring' all day long on that thread, if all they are trying to do is make EVERYONE laugh. Why would there be an issue with that? That's what the thread is for. Where I see the problem is with those that are just posting in an effort to make a sub-set of users laugh and all at someone else's expense, as they to me are the real 'thanks-whores'. It's playground stuff, the internet equivalent of picking on the small kid.

That's a matter of subjectivity. At what point does banter become an insult? I'm just saying that you can't use the fact that IBC and Tallon knew each other, and knew that they were joking with each other as a defense. If they were the sole parties to the banter/insult that's fine. They weren't. They brought all the readers in a public forum into their conversation. And to me, as someone who knows nothing about them beyond what I remember from the thread, it appeared that IBC was insulting Tallon. Even if she didn't intend to, to other people it looked like an insult, which is why people thanked it, and which is why a mod thanking it is unnacceptable. At that point it's an example of interaction that is deemed to be acceptable by the thread and by the mods who keep the thread. And that encouraged more unacceptable behavior.

Say we're friends in real life. If I punched you in the street, and someone came up and restrained me, injurying me, because they thought you were in genuine danger, I would have no case against my restrainer. They acted in defense of life. That you weren't in actual danger is irrelevant. My actions gave rise to a situation where someone could reasonable perceive their to be a threat of injury to someone else, and so they would be justified in stopping me with reasonable force.

That is just like what happened with the thread. The banter was construed as an insult, and a mod approved and encouraged the continuation of insults. The mod in this case should have acted on the acts themselves as presented to the average thread reader. Not as a party with inside knowledge (and I don't think the mod is claiming inside knowledge.) So to the average reader it seems that insulting Tallon and a pile on was officially endorsed. That the mod went on to blame Tallon for the problem is worse. It was the person whose banter encourged the pile on and insults and the mods who sanctioned them who are at fault. Not Tallon.

Edit: I edited the quote I took from OutlawPete: He changed his original post and I thought it fair to put his update in my quote.

Buceph · 21-04-2011 3:50pm

ibarelycare wrote: »

I think you're referring to me as the "insulter" here? Well...yes I suppose I did insult Tallon in YLYL, using Facebook as a platform. But he did the same to me in his post before mine. So in that regard, we both broke the rules, as well as everyone else who posted after that insulting Tallon and technically, we all should have been infracted.

But he didn't insult you. You being "ibarelycare." He insulted someone on Facebook called "Niamh" and he reposted that as a funny picture in the YLYL thread. Similarly ibarelycare posted a picutre of a girl called "Niamh" insulting Tallon. That he and you know that ibarelycare and Niamh are the same person is irrelevant. But by extension you as ibarelycare insulted Tallon, because ibarelycare has taken something from a personal website and posted it on boards.ie. All the average reader of the thread would see is some non-identifiable person insulting Tallon in the Facebook picture, but you as an identifiable person using the picture to insult Tallon. We could reasonably assume that Tallon and Niamh are having a bit of banter, or that they're friends and that's the kind of thing they get up to. They're on each others Facebook so it's a private matter. But by posting it to a public forum, you make it into an insult because no knowledge of a personal relationship can be assumed. You could have gotten the image from someone on Tallon's Facebook who doesn't like him. You could be the person from Tallon's Facebook who doesn't like him and who decided to publically insult. We can't infer anything about your relationship with Tallon from you posting that picture, other than the obvious, which is that it was an insult.

You Laugh You Lose isn't a private messageboard for friends, it's a public messageboard where strangers share things. Private messageboards are for banter between friends. If you post something to a public messageboard you can't assume that everyone will undestand the underlying interaction between two people, so it would be natural for people to assume you're insulting him. And that can be seen by the reaction where people went on to keep insulting Tallon.

themadchef · 21-04-2011 4:09pm

I think it will be interesting to see, in six or twelve months time, how many of the regulars who post now will still be posting if it loses the thanks function.

Personally i post in a part of Boards that doesnt even add to your post count, let alone your thanks, because i enjoy it, it's fun it's a place that makes alot of people laugh. I dont see alot of difference tbh.

If it's a situation that by removing the thanks feature on this particular thread you remove it from the whole "cool pics \ vids" forum, then maybe a move to TCN is an option.

homer simpson · 21-04-2011 4:57pm

Huh... I cannot understand what the big fuss is all about. Tallon posted something from his facebook and forgot to blank out some names. No offense but it looks like he has been singled out, just because some people didn't find it funny so bloody what, don't look at it! Scroll past it! thats what i do wdhen i come across long unfunny posts. Also i feel that if the mods are going to tell Tallon not to post facebook screenshots then surely that applies to all facebook status updates, and not just singling out one persons posts?

On the other stuff, I don't really think that totally removing the Thanks button is the answer here, I mean is the object of the thread not to get people to laugh, and when they laugh they lose and must thank the post to indicate that they lost? therefore if you remove the thanks button you basically wreck the thread?

there are an awful lot of thanks whores though who just post up stuff with the sole purpose of getting POTD, there have even been instances where the poster then boasts about getting POTD of thanks, hell even people have gone on about not getting thanks for posts. I feel as suggested already, opting Cool pics and vids posts out of the POTD feature surely its not that hard to do is it?

Me personally i post up stuff every so often and only post up stuff i find funny, if no-one else finds it funny it doesn't bother me its just my sense of humor i guess, likewise if i see long unfunny posts they don't bother me either i just scroll past.

OutlawPete · 21-04-2011 9:45pm

Sorry, long reply as replying to two of your posts at once Buceph ..

Buceph wrote: »

At what point does banter become an insult?

It can become an insult at different times to different people. For instance, there are many YLYL posts that have been made on the thread that a newbie could think was 'personal abuse'. I myself have often had to PM someone about banter I seen on the thread to ask what the craic was and would be told 'sure they were just messing' and then pointed towards another thread or posts I had missed that explained it all.

Buceph wrote: »

I'm just saying that you can't use the fact that IBC and Tallon knew each other, and knew that they were joking with each other as a defense.

Well then you may as well label hundreds of other posts/memes on that thread as "insults" and also many users as "insulters" - as the only thing that defined them as being just 'banter' at the time was the fact that the users were friendly with one another. The fact that some people may not know that is a joke does not then automatically make it an "insult" - even if it is perceived as such. Of course I accept that it's always obvious what is banter and what is an insult - but there are times when it's very obvious what the intent of a comment or a meme is.

Buceph wrote: »

And to me, as someone who knows nothing about them beyond what I remember from the thread, it appeared that IBC was insulting Tallon.

Well, if you (or any member) knows nothing about those two users, then you could easily not know anything about any of the YLYL users and so could view other all similar banter exchanges on the thread as "insults" - but that doesn't make them so. For example, the "Aspergers" comment could so easily have happened ON the YLYL thread and not on Facebook. What if those comments had of been 'thread-based'. What if Tallon posted some strange comic and iBC then replied with some meme where in it she walks up to Tallon and says:

iBC: "Tallon, you thought that pic was funny enough to post on YLYL??
Tallon: "Sure did"
iBC: Have you got Aspergers?"

Would that be different? (excluding the 'real name' aspect of all this of course, as I think we all agree that names should be obscured ).

Buceph wrote: »

Even if she didn't intend to, to other people it looked like an insult, which is why people thanked it ..

I disagree, I don't think people thought that iBC was trying to be mean or intending to "insult" Tallon at all. I think they knew she was just bantering with him and that he would take it in the spirit intended. Okay, SOME people MAY have thought that she meant it as an insult .. but they could as easily think that the hundreds of other similar posts and memes that have been directed at users on the thread were also meant as 'insults'. A user posted an image the other day that joked (I hope

) that I was retarded for a misspelling of a word on an image that I had posted, is that any different? Unless users are familiar with members of a forum, they would see will see quite a bit of the banter as 'insults'. You can't define something as 'abuse' or an 'insult' just because there might be users who don't get the joke based on the fact they don't know the users from Adam. That's just the nature of message boards, to get some posts as they're intended, you have to have some experience of the forum and it's regular users.

Buceph wrote: »

..and which is why a mod thanking it is unnacceptable.

I personally don't have an issue with the Mod thanking that post as I believe Frada knew iBC's intention, as he would mostly know the dynamic between most regular users of the forum (but not all of course, which makes modding a difficult task, particular on very large high traffic forums such AH and Cool Vids I guess).

Buceph wrote: »

Say we're friends in real life. If I punched you in the street, and someone came up and restrained me, injurying me, because they thought you were in genuine danger, I would have no case against my restrainer. They acted in defense of life. That you weren't in actual danger is irrelevant. My actions gave rise to a situation where someone could reasonable perceive their to be a threat of injury to someone else, and so they would be justified in stopping me with reasonable force.

Of course they would, but they wouldn't be justified if they DID know that I was in no danger

Buceph wrote: »

The banter was construed as an insult, and a mod approved and encouraged the continuation of insults.

Not all the banter was construed as an insult - only some of it. Often there is banter on the thread which is never construed as insults because of the context it is posted in. Again, just because there are users present that would not be aware of that dynamic - does not then equate the comment or meme to suddenly be an 'insult'.

Buceph wrote: »

The mod in this case should have acted on the acts themselves as presented to the average thread reader.

If Mods were to do that - they would have to delete posts all the time as banter/slagging/ribbing that the "average thread reader" may precive to be "insulting" is posted via memes and comments regularly,

Buceph wrote: »

It was the person whose banter encourged the pile on and insults and the mods who sanctioned them who are at fault. Not Tallon.

Agreed.

Buceph wrote: »

All the average reader of the thread would see is some non-identifiable person insulting Tallon in the Facebook picture, but you as an identifiable person using the picture to insult Tallon. We could reasonably assume that Tallon and Niamh are having a bit of banter, or that they're friends and that's the kind of thing they get up to. They're on each others Facebook so it's a private matter.

Agreed also and the reason why I feel all 'personal' Facebook images should be banned from the thread.

Tallon · 26-04-2011 1:32pm

So whats the story then?

Facebook screenshots? Slaggin other members?

Or are the rules just for me still?

dr.bollocko · 26-04-2011 1:41pm

...
Did you get in touch with the mod that banned you via PM?

ibarelycare · 26-04-2011 1:58pm

Are people's queries over the last couple of pages not going to be answered by the mods?

Quazzie · 26-04-2011 2:05pm

dr.bollocko wrote: »

...
Did you get in touch with the mod that banned you via PM?

Is he allowed to post the results of that PM here so we can all see what the story is? Or should we all PM Frada to see what the outcome of this is?

Tallon · 26-04-2011 2:09pm

I pm'd the Cmod and recieved no reply.

Why would I PM a mod that's 'going away for a while' and that I feel has an issue with me?

Can you not respond to the issues raised here? Or what is the point in this thread?

Edit: I'll ask again...

Facebook screenshots, are they allowed?

Slaggin other members, is this allowed?

Or are the rules just for me still?

Also, are these answers based on the one mod you want me to PM or is it a collective decision?

dr.bollocko · 26-04-2011 2:10pm

I guess in general:
We can't allow mocking of other boardsies even if in jest or humorous.
Lamebook type facebook stuff seems OK but taking care when posting your own stuff to ensure nobody's name is visible to protect the innocent.
We're looking at where cool vids and pics and links is within boards at the moment also so there's a discussion on that to be had...
The thanks button. Personally I'd like it gone however I suspect the majority would prefer it to stay and there are some good reasons voiced for that also.
re: clique mentality etc. right now I'll go with much ado about little in the light of recent days and be happy to look at that more case by case than in terms of a one rule for all situations type scenario.

dr.bollocko · 26-04-2011 2:12pm

If the CMOD has not responded then there is the dispute resolution forum available.
This thread is for general stuff.
Posters specific problems with moderators are why the DRP is brought up.
Also it is public so we can all see what the sceal is with that one.
Again, this thread is here for discussion of the general case and to see how we can do better in future not for nit-picking on individual issues and warnings. We've already had a bit of discussion about that in here and I would prefer if we checked the proper channels from here on out.

Tallon · 26-04-2011 2:22pm

dr.bollocko wrote: »

If the CMOD has not responded then there is the dispute resolution forum available.
This thread is for general stuff.
Posters specific problems with moderators are why the DRP is brought up.
Also it is public so we can all see what the sceal is with that one.
Again, this thread is here for discussion of the general case and to see how we can do better in future not for nit-picking on individual issues and warnings. We've already had a bit of discussion about that in here and I would prefer if we checked the proper channels from here on out.

I didn't want to go through DRP yet as it was the bank holiday weekend, and I was allowing for that.

As for the 'general' feedback in this thread, are FB screen shots allowed (With names blocked etc?)

dr.bollocko · 26-04-2011 2:34pm

Yes but I guess a bit of a caveat there on that one that I would take care to cover up your name / face / other crap like that. Obviously it also has to be humorous and not used to make a dig at another poster and then the usual rules of the thread apply also not too nein 11y.
I guess that makes things a little bit clearer. Not crystal but you get the idea in the general case.
We've got awful pointed and grumpy in here all of a sudden. Myself included.
Lets turn this around towards seeking to fix rather than seeking to blame. (I think that feeling is something we can all have a common experience of)
Its not like I'm used to having a phenomenally popular thread to moderate so I'm feeling around in the dark here as much as you guys.

Tallon · 26-04-2011 2:39pm

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Obviously it also has to be humorous .

This is the part i'm finding the hardest to understand... If I think somethings funny, and I post it, then it gets no thanks, I don't care. I still thought it was funny

Who deciedes if things are funny or not? What are the consequences of posting something not funny?

Can people honestly not just scrolled past? I don't understand.

dr.bollocko · 26-04-2011 2:45pm

I meant that it was supposed or intended to be funny rather than to shock or insult people.
This is ground we've touched on before and I thought we were pretty clear at this stage.
I am not here to mod humour.
If you find it funny and it isn't grossly against the charter / racist / insulting / horrible then that is fine. The thanks function mods humour well enough. And the scroll wheel.

Tallon · 26-04-2011 2:50pm

Perfect, thanks a million for answering B

Edit: I thought I got the last word, but you deleted my post below

dr.bollocko · 26-04-2011 2:51pm

Oh no.
Oh no no no.
You don't get the last word.
I do.
Yeah thats right.
*raspberry*

CrazyRabbit · 26-04-2011 5:07pm

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Oh no.
Oh no no no.
You don't get the last word.
I do.
Yeah thats right.
*raspberry*

I demand that you be banned for not being funny (enough).

Also, I have good news. I can't think of any other feedback/suggestions for this forum (without redesigning the site features), so I guess that makes me a happy customer.

Sykk · 26-04-2011 5:19pm

Jaysus is this still discussion still going on?!

Tallon · 26-04-2011 5:27pm

Sykk wrote: »

Jaysus is this still discussion still going on?!

Yeah it is.

As above, it was the bank holiday weekend

Chris P. Bacon · 26-04-2011 5:36pm

Can i ask a question about reposts,i am seeing a lot lately and ones that i have posted myself that get reposted but they seem to stay in,and yet when i see a post edited for a repost it generally isnt,like i check the YLYL thread everyday and have been for the last few months like a lot of people so we know if it is a repost or not.Can mods be wrong sometimes when it comes to this?

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