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Want to take up target shooting, advice needed :)
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16-03-2011 11:53PM#1Hi all,
Im new to Boards.ie and im trying to get some advice on taking up target shooting. I do have previous shooting experience as ive served with the Army Reserve for 3 years, but I have never privately owned a firearm. I understand all the licensing requirements etc i.e Membership of a club, gun safe and so on...I was thinking of joining Midlands shooting range down in Tullamore.
Anyway, im not really sure what sort of rifle and calibre I should be looking at for starting off, and what I would actually be granted a licence for.e.g would it be unreasonable to look for a .223 or a .308??? I want to shoot at reasonably long ranges, so im sort of assuming I shouldnt be going below .223 Win, as anything below this would sort of feel like a step backwards for me...:D Also, i hope to take up hunting at some point in the future ( Deer), so maybe I should be looking at a dual purpose rifle/calibre?? Any advice you could offer would be much appreciated as it seems like solid info is hard to come by in Ireland
Regards
Marksman200
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............ and what I would actually be granted a licence for.e.g would it be unreasonable to look for a .223 or a .308???
No.
Once you show good reason for the firearm being sought you can apply for any make, model or in this case caliber you wish. Your right to apply is actually one of the few entitlments you have. I do know a good few lads that have sought a .308 (or other large cvaliber rifle) as their first firearm. They wanted the rifle for target shooting and were successful because the they met all the necessary criteria.I want to shoot at reasonably long ranges, so im sort of assuming I shouldnt be going below .223 Win, as anything below this would sort of feel like a step backwards for me...
Also, i hope to take up hunting at some point in the future ( Deer), so maybe I should be looking at a dual purpose rifle/calibre??
A .223 rifle would be capable of medium to long range shooting, however if the rifle will/may serve as a dual purpose rifle (at some point) then .223 would be out as it will not pass the minimum requirement for deer legal as per NPWS standards. They are the licensing authority for deer licenses.Any advice you could offer would be much appreciated as it seems like solid info is hard to come by in Ireland
Personally i would suggest a .308 rifle. It is the most popular caliber, ammo choice is extensive and there are alot of rifles currently available that would serve as medium to long range target rifles and as a hunting rifle. A 6.5x55 would put you into the F-Open class of target shooting. Here you would be going up against alot (if not all) custom rifles, and it can be more expensive than F/TR shooting. They are a great hunting caliber so if hunting is more important to you at the moment that target work, its always an option.
I hate to be negative, but if you are considering target shooting on a competitive level you may find that any rifle that acts well as a crossover between hunting and target may not be able to perform aswell as those rifles designed to do target work only, and i am not refering to any custom rifle. many hunting rifle are by design lighter, and have shorter barrels than your average target rifle which puts you at a disadvantage. There are the likes of the TRG which is a little heavy for hunting, but can be used, and is perfectly capable of hitting the mark at 1,000 yards.
There is always the option of going for a decent/good hunting based rifle such as a Sako or Tika. These are naturally accurate rifle, light to carry and hunt with and with their 24" barrels will allow you to shoot out to 600 yards. You could always change or customise at a later date if you decide to stay with the target work only.
There are currently a few forms of long range shooting to pick from so you would need to pick which one you would best prefer. From a previous post of mine:Ezridax wrote:A quick rundown of the 2 most popular forms of long range target shooting.
F-Open - This is shooting done with a rifle, scope, front rest and back bag. Typical calibers include, 7mm, 6.5x284, but any caliber is allowed. It would be unusual, but not unheard off to use another caliber simply because these seem to be the tried and tested ones. The rifle cannot exceed 22lbs in weight. This includes rifle, scope, mounts, bolt. The front rest can be of any size and make, but must have a sand bag between the forestock of the rifle and the rest. The back back must also be of "simple" design and have sand between butt stock and rest/bag. Any power scope can be used.
FTR - This is shooting also done with a rifle, and scope, but has a bipod instead of a rest and a rear sandbag as with F-Open. The discipline is limited to .223, and .308 caliber rifles ONLY. The distances vary between 600 yards to a max of 1,000 yards. The setup for FTR shooting is usually cheaper than F-Open, but depending on your taste and customising of your rifle can be more expensive. The majority (if not all) of shooters use .308 caliber rifles. The vary from TRGs, Remingtons to the popular Savage. Thereason for them being so popular is they have excellent accuracy, but come in (price wise) cheaper than most/all factory rifles but is able to outshoot them from the off requiring no modifications.
The only limit in either class is the size of your wallet. . For €3,500 you could have a brand new rifle, scope and all gear for FTR. The F-open would be slightly more expensive, but not by enough to put you off and all setups could be got second hand.
The other three disciplines are Benchrest, Target rifle, and Match rifle.
TR shooting is open/aperture sight shooting. Done from 300 yards out to 1,000 it requires a good degree of skill and is a great sport. Your have rifle, sights, sling, jacket. No rests, bags or bipods.
Benchrest. This is shooting done with a rifle, scope, front rest and back bag all done in a seated position of a Bench. The rifles have over time become bigger, and more highly tuned than most things you would see on an average range. Have a look at this to see how it goes.
Match Rifle. This shooting done with a .308 caliber rifle at distances of 1,000 / 1,100 / 1,200 yards. In other words where normal F-Class shooting stops. The shooter can use a front rest but no back bag. It is generally shot from the prone position but can also be done "back gunning".
Thats should cover all the info you need about the types of shooting and possible calibers. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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(Apologies in advance for not using the quotes, i tried but made a balls of it So in the interest of expediency...)
Wow, I didnt expect such great, detailed answers so quickly. Thanks, I really appreciate it.
Ah I see what you mean about multi-purpose rifles. To be honest, for now im just interested in a bit of recreational shooting on the range, probably in the FTR category. It wouldnt bother me that I cant yet compete with the purpose made target rifles. If I ever got serious about competition, well then id definitely consider upgrading. For now id be happy with a rifle that would be suitable for some range work and hunting in the future. I like the Tikkas and Sakos alright, having seen your recommendations im thinking either a Tikka T3 Tactical or Sako 85 Hunter in .308 would be a good start. What would you reccommend in terms of other kit like optics, bi-pods etc., keeping in mind my current "Jack of all trades, master of none approach"
In what way do civvie ranges differ?
22lr - I had thought about it, butalthough I live in the "country", im only a few miles out of town and there is no land suitable for shooting on. That means id have to pay the 600 quid just to use the 50m range...not really worth it IMO.
If I went down to Midlands on a Sunday, can you rent a rifle for the day , or do you just mean to have a look around.0 -
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Marksman20 wrote: »(Apologies in advance for not using the quotes, i tried but made a balls of it So in the interest of expediency...)
Can be a bit of a bitch to get used to, but you'll get there.
............ having seen your recommendations im thinking either a Tikka T3 Tactical or Sako 85 Hunter in .308 would be a good start.
They are without doubt some the most accurate out of the box rifles you can buy. The stock of the Tikka lets them down a bit, but aso adds to the cheaper price. The action is smooth and flawless, and one of the better actions out there. Irrespective of your choice make sure you go for a heavy barrel. Trust me on this. A light barrel will be great for easy carrying, but considering the heavy barrel will only add a little bit more weight it is by far the better barrel to go for for multiple shots. If you are looking at informal range work with some hunting in the future i would look at a 24" heavy barrel. Nothing shorter. This will provide you with the specifics you need to do range work out to 600 yards while not giving you a long rifle to get caught up in trees and ditches when out hunting.What would you reccommend in terms of other kit like optics, bi-pods etc., keeping in mind my current "Jack of all trades, master of none approach"
Try to spend as much on the scope as you would on the rifle. Too many lads buy a top class rifle then top it off with a less than adequate scope as their budget does not push to buying better. Nightforce, Schmidt and Bender, Leupold, Zeiss, IOR, Swar, are all top quality glass, but carry a price range of €900 - €2000 depending on model. You can pick up some great bargains second hand. Have a look through the For Sale/Wanted section for current second hand scopes.
In relation to mag power. You need a good powered scope for the target work but not so powerful as to restrict your field of view when out hunting. A 5-25 power scope would be ideal. This gives you the 25 max mag power for the target work and you can zoom out to 5, 8, 12 power for the hunting work.In what way do civvie ranges differ?
I'll leave that up to those with more experience than me.22lr - I had thought about it, butalthough I live in the "country", im only a few miles out of town and there is no land suitable for shooting on. That means id have to pay the 600 quid just to use the 50m range...not really worth it IMO.
If you have experience with firearms then a .22lr is probably not the way to go. If you are a bit "rusty" then the range will provide you with the refresher course you need to get ready before the next deer season. If you were a complete novice i would strongly recommend a .22lr to get used to firearm hadling, safety and general shooting etiquette.If I went down to Midlands on a Sunday, can you rent a rifle for the day , or do you just mean to have a look around.
Day memberships to ranges are not allowed anymore so you would be a visitor/spectator. That is not to say you cannot pick up a world of information. My advice to you would be to come along next Sunday (27th March). There is another deer shooting competition on then and there will be a huge array of firearms. You can pick the lads brains and see what you like or don't and what suits.
Of course you are welcome to come allong any weekend. Myself or any of the other ROs would be glad to show you around.
As Sparks has mentioned there is also the VCRAI. These lads shoot Vintage rifle, such as Lee Enfields, etc. I will not try and bulls**t you with details as i have never shot it and know little about it other than what i have seen. A few lads here , bunnyshooter springs to mind, has alot of experience with these and will hopefully give more details if you're interested.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.
Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo
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All great advice, thanks guys Ive heard that about spending as much on the scope as on the rifle alright. A friend of mine uses an Accuracy International and a Schmitt and Bender, cost him upwards of 4 grand for the pair :eek: I better start savin
I'll definitely be down to the range some Sunday to have a look around. Id be glad to accept any offer to show me around, it would make it a whole lot easier on me. It might not be for a while though, most of my weekends are taken up trainin for my Brigade Rifle Team :rolleyes:...but im not complainin:D
With regard to the hunting,this is the area I know least about. I dont really know anyone who hunts that I could tag along with, so im sort of in the dark. I know you need land owners permission and that, but how would I get started from scratch. If I was a Midlands member, would I be a ble to "join in" with another group of hunters or do you need individual permission? I know id need my own licence anyway.0 -
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Just to add my couple of cents worth.
I like you wanted a hunting and target rifle and I also knew that to have both was not going to be easy. For the deer hunting I needed a good accurate rifle using an easy to get ammo. For target shooting I needed a good accurate heavy barrel rifle for the extra range.
After ringing all the dealers I could I got a nice second hand Sako 75 laminated fluted barrel in 308. It did all and more than I could ever want from a gun.
Sat on top is a Bushnell elite 4200 6-24x50mm scope that does both for the deer stalking and range use.
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alalkovitch wrote: »Good point but he's not going up the mountain with a 28" -32" barrel. I have a 6XC with a 32" barrel and a 7mm and both come in at over 24lbs could'nt see myself hauling either through the woods.
Exactly my point and you're 100% correct.
My point is not caliber specific its more the design of the rifle. A friend of mine here was getting terrible stick about his TRG and it not being able to shoot competitively with the rest of the FTR lads. He proved them all wrong by outshooting some of these lads. He will admit himself that he had to work slightly harder than other to achieve the same results, but he got them none the less.
He has since rebarrelled the rifle for a 30" palma, and i for one expect great things from him now. however the rifle might have been good enough for hunting (not ability wise, practicality wise) before the rebarrel, but now i cannot see him dragging his shiney new 30" barrel/rifle through ditches, etc.
I think we are making the same point in different ways. For a starter rifle i would look at something in 26" range. Good enough to get him out to the 800+ distances, good enough to stay competitive, and still good enough to be used as a hunter if thats his bit.
PS - You might want to put your rifles on a diet as 24lbs exceeds the 22lb weight limit for F-Open. Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.
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That was a while ago. i think i remember you. You were the first/only one at the time with a Blaser. Seen you on the 300 sheltered range. It stood out as i hadn't seen one before and i thought the stock wasn't fully finished. Shame to have such good rifles and not be getting the use out of them.
Would you not consider even going into the Nationals or other such NRAI shoots. Would love to see the 6XC beat the pants of some of the other rifles there. Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.
Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo
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Shame to have such good rifles and not be getting the use out of them.
Would you not consider even going into the Nationals or other such NRAI shoots. Would love to see the 6XC beat the pants of some of the other rifles there.
He's right. Shave a couple of pounds off & shoot the matches.
Winning is a great form of amusement.0 -
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E70KxFsJ08E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6u9_Uy2vjo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I-c-HSHFas
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