Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

ScumLord · 05-04-2011 08:33PM

galwayrush wrote: »

If this turns out to be true, the gardai involved deserve to be sacked at the very least.
Otherwise...YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

If what turns out to be true? Did you hear the tape?

Ficheall · 05-04-2011 08:34PM

Had the guards stopped the conversation before the mention of 'rape' came up, would the lass in question then have taken offense at being referred to as a 'Yank'?

I went to see a stand-up comedy competition yestereve. It was brutal, but that's beside the point. The guy who won just recited a slew of one-liners about rape and incest and paedophilia and punching babies in the face etc. The audience were laughing their heads off. (Clearly they've never read the internet...)
But these Gardai, instead of being hailed as comic geniuses, are being lambasted for reciting, essentially, the same jokes to each other in private.

Am I missing something? Or do people just need to cop themselves on?

prinz · 05-04-2011 08:34PM

My name is URL wrote: »

what's outrageous is the people saying that it's none of those things.

Who said that?

DublinWriter · 05-04-2011 08:35PM

eco2live wrote: »

Hippies are sound

Grand, so.

When your house is being broke into tonight, give them a shout:

"So loike, why not explore some common ground with your mugger/burglar, you know?, why not explore why he wants to invade your space and take your sh*t?"

prinz · 05-04-2011 08:38PM

Ficheall wrote: »

Am I missing something?

Yes, somewhere along the line in the past the gardaí had their senses of humour and their ability to make mistakes like the rest of us removed.

Copper23 · 05-04-2011 08:38PM

Its good to see there is SOME sense in among the opinions here.

Look, what they spoke about is NOT a good thing to joke about.

But having said all that, what is annoying is how it's portrayed. As I said before, when I read to original article it seemed to me like the girl was in the back of the car and they had threatened her with this stuff. While even at that it was a term of phrase and unlikely what they were going to do, it would have been a really bad move to say such a thing.

However when I then looked at the video, it wasn't at all what was described in the report. Not even slightly. They weren't speaking to her. She wasn't even there. They were speaking totally off the record in a boy will be boys sort of fashion. You'll hear worse from a bunch of guys down the pub. In this case though they were caught on the job so it's not a good thing.

Again, its not really ok to be joking about what they did but at the same time someone mentioned that at some point we've all heard tasteless jokes before, we've seen the Tommy Teirnan sketch about Declan Moffett. In the context all those are in, it's just a joke, stepping aside from reality for a moment. It doesn't condone the behaviour.

I mean the guards certainly wouldn't say anything like that in an official capacity. They felt it was off the record and not in "guard mode". It was misjudged, it was probably wrong but at some point common sense has to prevail.

Someoe above mentioned this is all free press for the protestors and the more of an issue they can make out of something like this the longer they'll drag it out. They have every right to get their point across if thats what they want to do but to push something like rape, when in reality they were never put in any direct danger, to get their agenda publicity is fairly tasteless on their part too.

Common sense has to prevail at some point.

jill_valentine · 05-04-2011 08:39PM

elviscostello wrote: »

That's fair enough, but a very large part of the damage to the perception of the Gardai by potential victims is down to the protestors. The couple of lads in the squad car were being silly, but if the protestors were sincerely worried about potential rape victims and local women (like they say they were) they would have reported it in the correct way.

The relevant people could have been dealt with, without all the hysteria.

Hmmm. I'm actually inclined to agree to a point - but on the other hand, I don't think it's entirely unexpected that a few members of the public would assume a bias against them in a dispute with the legal system, rightly or wrongly, and resort to what I guess you could call Guerrilla tactics.

Again, I don't condone their actions, and the field day some of the far left are having about this is making me slightly queasy, but if I was in that position I would be absolutely outraged and I would want people to know how the watchmen act when they think no one's watching them. As I ranted at length about earlier, it is incredibly important to foster trust between the guards and the public in this context, but there's something to be said for transparency in public service too.

If there's rot, it should be aired sooner rather than later.

Guill · 05-04-2011 08:41PM

DublinWriter wrote: »

Really? Which one? I wasn't aware that 'thought-crime' was an offence by the Garda Code?

The level of hypocrisy and misinformation about this incident is staggering.

PLease read the thread and look at the post where i posted the Garda ethical statement which all Guards sign. I could repost the link but if you are made look for it you might appreciate it.

galwayrush · 05-04-2011 08:41PM

ScumLord wrote: »

If what turns out to be true? Did you hear the tape?

Yes, but i'll wait making any judgement until it's proved to be genuine or dubbed. Sounds genuine tbh, and if proved so, yes the gardai should be facing serious charges as well as being sacked.

jill_valentine · 05-04-2011 08:42PM

Ficheall wrote: »

I went to see a stand-up comedy competition yestereve. It was brutal, but that's beside the point. The guy who won just recited a slew of one-liners about rape and incest and paedophilia and punching babies in the face etc. The audience were laughing their heads off. (Clearly they've never read the internet...)

But these Gardai, instead of being hailed as comic geniuses, are being lambasted for reciting, essentially, the same jokes to each other in private.

Am I missing something? Or do people just need to cop themselves on?

If, God forbid, you were violently raped and left for dead this evening, you wouldn't be dependent on Frankie Boyle or Tommy Tiernan for help. That's the difference.

Daisy M · 05-04-2011 08:42PM

RayM wrote: »

Sorry, I'm still seeing 44% beside the 'disciplinary procedures' option. It's 'first past the post' and common sense is lagging behind.

They're not a couple of lads. They're a couple of on-duty members of An Garda Siochana, joking about forcing a female suspect to have sex with them.

I agree and this is ah, if this was a different forum I really believe results would be different, way higher than 44%, a lot of posters here are more interested in having a laugh and will use shock tactics to do so. Picture this guys think of the closest woman to you mother/sister/wife/girlfriend, and imagine the remarks were made about her.

prinz · 05-04-2011 08:45PM

galwayrush wrote: »

Yes, but i'll wait making any judgement until it's proved to be genuine or dubbed. Sounds genuine tbh, and if proved so, yes the gardai should be facing serious charges as well as being sacked.

What charges exactly?

jill_valentine wrote: »

If, God forbid, you were violently raped and left for dead this evening, you wouldn't be dependent on Frankie Boyle or Tommy Tiernan for help. That's the difference.

If I was I know that AGS would do everything in their power to help and be professional, discreet and provide an excellent service. This incident does nothing to shake that.

_feedback_ · 05-04-2011 08:45PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Hmmm. I'm actually inclined to agree to a point - but on the other hand, I don't think it's entirely unexpected that a few members of the public would assume a bias against them in a dispute with the legal system, rightly or wrongly, and resort to what I guess you could call Guerrilla tactics.

Again, I don't condone their actions, and the field day some of the far left are having about this is making me slightly queasy, but if I was in that position I would be absolutely outraged and I would want people to know how the watchmen act when they think no one's watching them. As I ranted at length about earlier, it is incredibly important to foster trust between the guards and the public in this context, but there's something to be said for transparency in public service too.

If there's rot, it should be aired sooner rather than later.

They have very very very strong piece of evidence against the couple of guards in question. Nobody but the Garda Ombudsman should have been informed if they sincerely meant what they said about caring for local women etc. (which is very obviously a steaming pile of horse shít)

All they care about is themselves and their own agenda. Finding that tape was like hitting the jackpot, and they surely know that the Guards in question meant no harm whatsoever and were just passing the time by having a laugh (at albeit an inappropriate joke).

My name is URL · 05-04-2011 08:46PM

prinz wrote: »

Who said that?

I could have sworn that this thread has over 800 posts with people arguing over whether or not it was any of those things =p

Daisy M · 05-04-2011 08:46PM

galwayrush wrote: »

Yes, but i'll wait making any judgement until it's proved to be genuine or dubbed. Sounds genuine tbh, and if proved so, yes the gardai should be facing serious charges as well as being sacked.

Oh its genuine I know one of them and I can recognise his voice a mile off, in fairness he is the least offensive of the three and I am suprised at him been involved.

OutlawPete · 05-04-2011 08:48PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

..joking about sexual violence against a woman under your control isn't banter. It pure and utter misogyny.

Don't agree it's "misogyny" but they certainly come across as utter pricks.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Few friends in the pub joking cannot be compared to on duty Gardai talking about a female in custody.

Agreed and maybe it's just me, but I am not once bit surprised with what Guards say as I heard them saying and saw them doing much much worse growing up. Have family in the Guards also, so I have no vendetta against them.

My name is URL wrote: »

I agree that it's a storm in a tea-cup but they caused the storm themselves so have no sympathy for them.

Absolutely and if it up to me, punishment would be six months suspension (with pay) but I would not release their names and would have it removed from their record after a year.

Hookah wrote: »

Didn't Andy Gray just lose his job for doing the same thing?

No.

PeakOutput wrote: »

I have no idea what age you are but the word rape is dropped regularly to describe many different things among the under 30's these days(there is a long thread in tll about just that).

I'm sure Micky knows that but that has ZERO to do with THIS context, which is a sexual one.

optogirl wrote: »

Black humour about death is totally different to humour about rape. Death is a fact of life and going to happen to each of us. Rape is a weapon used by the viscious.

Sex is a fact of life though and Rape is to Sex what Murder is to Death.

I would equally as horrified if this conversation had of been about men that were arrested and the conversation went along the lines of:

Garda 1 'They wouldn't give their names'.
Garda 2 ''You should have said you'd assassinate him'
Garda 1 'Yeah, give me your name or I'll assassinate ya'
Garda 2 'I'll assassinate you now in this van if you don't give me your name'

The gus were assclowns in the extreme, most likely the first guy that said it fancied one of the women and thought the "joke" would be hilarious, it wasn't and it dies quick as we can hear from the recording. It's not like they had a twenty minute conversation about how they should rape one of the women, but better not in case they got caught. In a nutshell, a few idiot cops joked about using rape to get the women to reveal their names and they should receive some form of punishment.

prinz · 05-04-2011 08:48PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I could have sworn that this thread has over 800 posts with people arguing over whether or not it was any of those things =p

No it doesn't really. What this thread has is differing opinions of what we do after the fact, then we have another group of nutbags jumping on a bandwagon to get any excuse to try and run down the gardaí.

... again can't remember any poster saying they should get off scot free.

jill_valentine · 05-04-2011 08:49PM

elviscostello wrote: »

They have very very very strong piece of evidence against the couple of guards in question.

To be sure, but from a protestor's perspective - rightly or wrongly - I've no doubt the justice system looks very much like a closed shop.

Wildebrian · 05-04-2011 08:50PM

The Lord God ! Two Gardai having a laugh! Pity the subject of the Joke is a member of a completely unrepresentative and undemocratic bunch of eco nazis.I think we have a lot more to worry about than this non event.

_feedback_ · 05-04-2011 08:52PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

To be sure, but from a protestor's perspective - rightly or wrongly - I've no doubt the justice system looks very much like a closed shop.

I don't think that's realistic to be fair. Apart from the technical tests (i presume) that would have to be done to prove it is genuine. The tape is solid evidence. The Garda Ombudsman is there for complaints, I don't think there is the slightest chance they would have been presented with a closed shop there.

wyndhurst · 05-04-2011 08:53PM

......ECO Nazi'S....Most appropriate description yet for these two 'innocent victims'. Boo fcuking hooo.

Ficheall · 05-04-2011 08:54PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

If, God forbid, you were violently raped and left for dead this evening, you wouldn't be dependent on Frankie Boyle or Tommy Tiernan for help. That's the difference.

If, God forbid, I were violently raped and left for dead this evening, and I were depending on AGS to come to my aid, I would not give a toss what jokes they made in private if they were competent enough to get me to a hospital and/or chase down the baddies.

ottostreet · 05-04-2011 08:57PM

It's all a fuss about nothing...feel sorry for the Guards on this one, OK the comments are a bit extreme, but its clearly only a mess around.

wyndhurst · 05-04-2011 09:01PM

If bad tase was a crime - then hang them high.

Other than that - what law have they broken?

jill_valentine · 05-04-2011 09:02PM

elviscostello wrote: »

I don't think that's realistic to be fair. Apart from the technical tests (i presume) that would have to be done to prove it is genuine. The tape is solid evidence. The Garda Ombudsman is there for complaints, I don't think there is the slightest chance they would have been presented with a closed shop there.

I'm not saying that it actually would have been, or that submitting the evidence to the Ombudsman wouldn't have ultimately proven fruitful, just that if I was a protester who'd been on opposite lines to the Gardai a few times, I probably wouldn't have terrific faith in Them to give me a fair hearing.

Again, I don't like their behaviour in this regard, but I don't think it's necessarily as wholly spiteful as it might look.

wild_cat · 05-04-2011 09:02PM

Ficheall wrote: »

If, God forbid, I were violently raped and left for dead this evening, and I were depending on AGS to come to my aid, I would not give a toss what jokes they made in private if they were competent enough to get me to a hospital and/or chase down the baddies.

Sure as long as they get out a laugh out of your suffering!!

jill_valentine · 05-04-2011 09:06PM

Ficheall wrote: »

If, God forbid, I were violently raped and left for dead this evening, and I were depending on AGS to come to my aid, I would not give a toss what jokes they made in private if they were competent enough to get me to a hospital and/or chase down the baddies.

How much faith would you have in them to do just that, if you walked into the station right as they were laughing it up about the previous victim?

My name is URL · 05-04-2011 09:07PM

wyndhurst wrote: »

If bad tase was a crime - then hang them high.

Other than that - what law have they broken?

It doesn't have to be a crime in order for them to be held accountable. People can be reprimanded in their professional lives regardless of no crime taking place.

They shouldn't have said what they did, it's unfortunate they did and even more so that a it was caught on tape.. AGS would be doing themselves a disservice if no action was taken over this after the media shitstorm that has being borne out of it.

The Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, Amnesty, the Council for Civil Liberties and One in Four have all condemned comments allegedly made by gardaí in Co Mayo

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/lobby-groups-condemn-alleged-garda-rape-jokes-as-ombudsman-investigates-500058.html#idc-cover

LETHAL LADY · 05-04-2011 09:11PM

Can someone tell me why AGS are being paid by the state to act as security for a private company surely shell could afford their own security.

_feedback_ · 05-04-2011 09:11PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

How much faith would you have in them to do just that, if you walked into the station right as they were laughing it up about the previous victim?

But why would they be? There's no evidence to suggest that they would ever laugh at a rape victim. They made a bad joke and got caught out.

Garda Siochana in Shell to sea sex shocker

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