Moment of truth for leftists (except scumlord because he likes The Zohan)

arybvtcw0eolkf · 22-03-2011 06:59PM

Overheal wrote: »

If you withdraw to the 67 line, and Palestine attacks, Palestine becomes the antagonist: the one that the International community is most likely to take action against.

That argument falls apart when you take into account the international communities response to Hezbollah attacks on The Galilee (from its terror bases in southern Lebanon) - the international community tells Israel to act with restraint and condemns Israel when it retaliates.

Morlar · 22-03-2011 07:21PM

Brooklynn Unkempt Postage wrote: »

That argument falls apart when you take into account the international communities response to Hezbollah attacks on The Galilee (from its terror bases in southern Lebanon) - the international community tells Israel to act with restraint and condemns Israel when it retaliates.

This is not retaliation. Also if you want to talk about the hypocrisy of the intl community . . .. bear in mind this is a military force firing on actual civilians.

Not civilians with guns like in Libya but men women and children
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12822493

22 March 2011 Last updated at 16:09 GMT

Children die in Israeli attack on Gaza, say doctors

Four Palestinian family members have died in Gaza, doctors say, in an apparent Israeli artillery strike.

Locals said four Israeli tank shells hit a home east of Gaza City; doctors said two children were killed.

The Israeli military said in a statement: "Regrettably non-combatants were hurt (he means killed), this is because Hamas attacks from civilian areas."

Palestinian militants on Saturday fired a barrage of rockets over the frontier, prompting Israeli retaliation.

The militants launched more mortars against Israeli troops on Tuesday, the Israeli military said.

The latest deaths came a day after Palestinian doctors said at least 17 people were injured in Israeli air strikes in Gaza.

The BBC's Jon Donnison in Gaza City says the exchanges are among the most serious since Israel's major offensive between December 2008 and January 2009.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 22-03-2011 07:30PM

Morlar wrote: »

This is not retaliation.

Overheal said that if Israel withdraws to its '67 borders that attacks made across those borders would drawn international condemnation on the Palestinians - I pointed out that it doesn't exactly work like that.

Morlar wrote: »

Also if you want to talk about the hypocrisy of the intl community . . ..

I don't care to talk a whole lot on it, no.

Katkatim · 22-03-2011 07:38PM

Morlar wrote: »

This is not retaliation. Also if you want to talk about the hypocrisy of the intl community . . .. bear in mind this is a military force firing on actual civilians.

Not civilians with guns like in Libya but men women and children
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12822493

22 March 2011 Last updated at 16:09 GMT

Children die in Israeli attack on Gaza, say doctors

Four Palestinian family members have died in Gaza, doctors say, in an apparent Israeli artillery strike.

Locals said four Israeli tank shells hit a home east of Gaza City; doctors said two children were killed.

The Israeli military said in a statement: "Regrettably non-combatants were hurt (he means killed), this is because Hamas attacks from civilian areas."

Palestinian militants on Saturday fired a barrage of rockets over the frontier, prompting Israeli retaliation.

The militants launched more mortars against Israeli troops on Tuesday, the Israeli military said.

The latest deaths came a day after Palestinian doctors said at least 17 people were injured in Israeli air strikes in Gaza.

The BBC's Jon Donnison in Gaza City says the exchanges are among the most serious since Israel's major offensive between December 2008 and January 2009.

I couldn't find your post on the rocket attack last Saturday on Israeli civilans, from Gaza. 49 rockets were fired. 2 people injured. The timing was perfect. It was Purim - the children's favorite Jewish holiday so people were expected to be outdoors.
Can you please show me the link?

This might help enlighten you on why so many civilians get hurt in Gaza:
From http://www.btselem.org/english/Israeli_Civilians/Qassam_missiles.asp

In a significant number of cases, Palestinians have fired the rockets and mortar shells from civilian residential areas. International humanitarian law (IHL) prohibits attacks from inside or near the homes of civilians, and using civilians as human shields. Palestinian organizations that choose to carry out attacks against communities in Israel from within or near populated areas breach this rule, and in doing so, demonstrate not only their intention to harm Israeli civilians, but also indifference to the lives of Palestinian civilians.

Morlar · 22-03-2011 07:46PM

Katkatim wrote: »

I couldn't find your post on ........

Pathetic attempt at changing the subject.

Katkatim · 22-03-2011 07:53PM

Morlar wrote: »

Pathetic attempt at changing the subject.

So you didn't write one? I guess that demonstrates what Mikikomi was saying, no?

Morlar · 22-03-2011 08:15PM

Katkatim wrote: »

So you didn't write one? I guess that demonstrates what Mikikomi was saying, no?

I'd say your guesses are about as worthless as an Israeli army apology, hearing and acquital.

Actually not quite useless as it does help illustrate why israel is in many ways a repugnant nation to a lot of people. Nothing whatsoever to do with race or religion or anything intangible beyone anyones control, it's purely their consistent, repeated actions and then subsequent attitude of trying to claim it is always someone elses fault.

Katkatim · 22-03-2011 08:30PM

Morlar wrote: »

I'd say your guesses are about as worthless as an Israeli army apology, hearing and acquital.

Actually not quite useless as it does help illustrate why israel is in many ways a repugnant nation to a lot of people. Nothing whatsoever to do with race or religion or anything intangible beyone anyones control, it's purely their consistent, repeated actions and then subsequent attitude of trying to claim it is always someone elses fault.

So this is how you respond when you get pissed off and have nothing relevant to say? If you can explain why you make posts about Israeli attacks against Gaza, but sit silent when attacks are carried out against Israelis from Gaza, then please do so. If not, I suggest you look at yourself before pointing fingers at others.
Look at the quotes I added to my first reply to you. It's from a human rights organization.

Morlar · 22-03-2011 08:36PM

Katkatim wrote: »

So this is how you respond when you get pissed off and have nothing relevant to say? If you can explain why you make posts about Israeli attacks against Gaza,

I am neither pissed off nor do I have nothing to say. Oh and you are not in a position to demand explanations from anyone, btw.

Overheal · 22-03-2011 08:37PM

Morlar wrote: »

I am neither pissed off nor do I have nothing to say. Oh and you are not in a position to demand explanations from anyone, btw.

He did say please...

Morlar · 22-03-2011 08:41PM

Overheal wrote: »

He did say please...

Oh well in that case .. . . . awww, look at the poor israelis, always the victimz.

Katkatim · 22-03-2011 08:41PM

Overheal wrote: »

He did say please...

I'm not a "he".

arybvtcw0eolkf · 22-03-2011 08:56PM

Morlar wrote: »

Oh well in that case .. . . . awww, look at the poor israelis, always the victimz.

You know how small you've just made yourself look?.

The Israeli · 23-03-2011 01:54AM

Overheal –

" You don't think that by getting back behind the 1967 borders and winning back support from the international community won't keep Palestine in line?

If you withdraw to the 67 line, and Palestine attacks, Palestine becomes the antagonist: the one that the International community is most likely to take action against. Right now, it's the opposite, and you find the UN trying to take actions against Israel but your only saving grace is the US favor. But **** it, even they want you back behind the line. How long do you want to keep pressing that? "

Me-

In reality, the international community has no real force.. Not when it comes to enforcing something on idealistic people.

I really hope that by getting behind 67's line, the Arabs will accept peace. However, taking the statements of many Palestinian leaders and fighters, I'm a bit skeptical in that. However, it should be tried, because it's the only option for getting peace. Although, it can't be an Israeli one sided move, as with every piece of land that Israel retreats from, it has to know, that the force which goes to replace it there, would be peaceful and will prevent any attempt of their own people to violate peace.

Nodin –

"I already stated that the 'right to return' was a non-runner. Yes, theres going to be extreme dissidents who won't stop. They'll fade over time, once the majority are happy, or at least content, with the settlement."

You think that they will fade over time? How can you be certain about it? I really really hope so, but I wouldn't put other lives at stake.

To AskMyChocolate –

Your replay is very nice. I personally, don't believe in God, but many others do. If I were living outside of Israel I would probably have a similar opinion to yours about our conflict.

The strikes on Gaza were bad (if you are talking about 2008). Yes, many innocent people died including kids. However they were carried out only after daily bombarding southern middle Israel. About 60-80 rockets on bad days. How could a normal country accept that?!

They were really pushing the line and endangering people. Could you live in that legitimate legal area when you are being bombarded daily? That's insane.

Who gave them the right to bombard those areas and why? Israel had to react in a way that would convince them that they don't want to continue in their actions anymore.

Israeli army tried it's best not to harm civilian population, which is a VERY hard task in the most dense place in the world while the fighters shoot from civilian homes, hospitals, mosques .. Israeli soldiers did some mistake too, we know, but compared to the complexity of the operation it was a success – There was a relatively long quite at the border + not many soldiers got killed + the ratio Hamas / civilians casualties was painful but reasonable.

Please, I'm a human been too, and so do others. Those kids and women who died didn't deserve to die, but in order to restore quiet in that area, Israel had to launch the operation.

Every country would have done the same. I can assure you of that.

Negotiating under fire in the middle east would not work. That's not the mentality of people of that area. It shows weakness. I am not making that up. I think it is the same everywhere, in the matter of fact.

About the Irish rangers thing – I doubt it. Israel can understand other countries security needs..

You - "You stated in an earlier post that you didn't think it was fair that we focus on Israel rather than other conflicts in Africa etc. "

The first reason that you know more about the holocaust more than about other genocides is because you are a part of Europe and the western society. You can say that is happened in your back yard. It happened by people like you, which were close to you I culture and geographically. Holocaust was one of the fastest, the most brutal purges in the history. When one (or more) nation wants to wipe out another. Almost nothing can match that.

Never the less, I don't undermine the other disasters and agree that we should know more about them too.

me-

AMC – about the rest of your post J. Thank you, and I really hope the same. I will love to visit Ireland again – last time I concentrated my attention mainly on Dublin, counties Cork and Carrie. So yea, there is much more to see.. And no politics of course

You are and the all of boards.ie are invited to Israel and Palestine too heh

News from today:

A mortar squad in Gaza launched mortars in the direction of Israeli communities by the border. Israel replied with shells fire to that point – two (or one) of the shells missed their target and to innocent kids got killed. It's another sad incident in Gaza. Before you judge, read again how it had started..

NTMK · 23-03-2011 02:30AM

The Israeli wrote: »

Overheal –

To AskMyChocolate –

Your replay is very nice. I personally, don't believe in God, but many others do. If I were living outside of Israel I would probably have a similar opinion to yours about our conflict.

The strikes on Gaza were bad (if you are talking about 2008). Yes, many innocent people died including kids. However they were carried out only after daily bombarding southern middle Israel. About 60-80 rockets on bad days. How could a normal country accept that?!

They were really pushing the line and endangering people. Could you live in that legitimate legal area when you are being bombarded daily? That's insane.

Who gave them the right to bombard those areas and why? Israel had to react in a way that would convince them that they don't want to continue in their actions anymore.

Israeli army tried it's best not to harm civilian population, which is a VERY hard task in the most dense place in the world while the fighters shoot from civilian homes, hospitals, mosques .. Israeli soldiers did some mistake too, we know, but compared to the complexity of the operation it was a success – There was a relatively long quite at the border + not many soldiers got killed + the ratio Hamas / civilians casualties was painful but reasonable.

Please, I'm a human been too, and so do others. Those kids and women who died didn't deserve to die, but in order to restore quiet in that area, Israel had to launch the operation.

Every country would have done the same. I can assure you of that.

Negotiating under fire in the middle east would not work. That's not the mentality of people of that area. It shows weakness. I am not making that up. I think it is the same everywhere, in the matter of fact.

About the Irish rangers thing – I doubt it. Israel can understand other countries security needs..

You - "You stated in an earlier post that you didn't think it was fair that we focus on Israel rather than other conflicts in Africa etc. "

The first reason that you know more about the holocaust more than about other genocides is because you are a part of Europe and the western society. You can say that is happened in your back yard. It happened by people like you, which were close to you I culture and geographically. Holocaust was one of the fastest, the most brutal purges in the history. When one (or more) nation wants to wipe out another. Almost nothing can match that.
Never the less, I don't undermine the other disasters and agree that we should know more about them too.

me-
AMC – about the rest of your post J. Thank you, and I really hope the same. I will love to visit Ireland again – last time I concentrated my attention mainly on Dublin, counties Cork and Carrie. So yea, there is much more to see.. And no politics of course

You are and the all of boards.ie are invited to Israel and Palestine too heh

News from today:

A mortar squad in Gaza launched mortars in the direction of Israeli communities by the border. Israel replied with shells fire to that point – two (or one) of the shells missed their target and to innocent kids got killed. It's another sad incident in Gaza. Before you judge, read again how it had started..

So you think destroying the palestinian infrastructure, using illegal weapons
and doing bombing runs when school children were going and coming home from school are justified for what a group of terrorists have done to israel

Thats like saying the english had the right to level dublin because of the actions the IRA

This kind of "defence" only breeds terrorists in palestine

Most of the israeli people ive met have been lovely people but your goverment and the IDF are no different to Hamas, Hezbollah and the other terrorist groups, they're all scum

RichieC · 23-03-2011 02:33AM

NTMK wrote: »

This kind of "defence" only breeds terrorists in palestine

More terrorism means they have more of a mandate to build their wall and throw farmers off their land and it's easier to justify to the court of public opinion.

win win.

Pdfile · 23-03-2011 02:40AM

Adyx wrote: »

Do you even know what a Semite is? And you don't need to be "leftist" or "a pinko liberal" (favoured by some on Boards) to find the crimes committed by the Israeli army and some Israeli people, abhorrent.

everyone commits crimes... Everyone... bomb the world, and start over... ill speak to ya in 6 billion years when its all good again ye ? :rolleyes:

Nodin · 23-03-2011 07:06AM

The Israeli wrote: »

You think that they will fade over time? How can you be certain about it? I really really hope so, but I wouldn't put other lives at stake.

Considering the casualty rate, its primarily Palestinian lives that are going to be lost.

Extremists here followed much the same pattern as I described.

Given the genetic closeness between many Palestinians and Israelis, talking about the "arabs" might be something you want to think about.

Mahatma coat · 23-03-2011 07:46AM

LOOK you miserable little Zionist apologists.

Get Your Facts Straight

The Palestinians are NOT Firing Rockets at Israel,

They are Firing Rockets at an Israeli force of Occupation and Illegal Settlements on THEIR Land

Nodin · 23-03-2011 07:51AM

...big print...that'll show them....

Buceph · 23-03-2011 07:53AM

"DAMN ZIONISTS" + lolocaust signature and hitler smiley = winning poast!

arybvtcw0eolkf · 23-03-2011 10:39AM

Mahatma coat wrote: »

LOOK you miserable little Zionist apologists.

Get Your Facts Straight

The Palestinians are NOT Firing Rockets at Israel,

They are Firing Rockets at an Israeli force of Occupation and Illegal Settlements on THEIR Land

My phone is vibrating, SMS message coming through.

The Israeli · 23-03-2011 11:09AM

NTMK - The weapons Israel uses in it's fights are legal. Even the weapon with white phosphorous, which as I remember wasn't used against people but as an assisting substance for something. I can google about it, if you describe in what way this weapon was used against international laws - evidence quotes.
If Israel is wrong, I'll admit it, but as being a part of the army (reserves) I know for sure what the army uses in routine and it's completely standard weaponry as every country has - in terms of dangerous substances.
There was said, which I don't know for sure, that Israel used fragmentation bombs in the fights with Hezbolah in 2006. This weapon is illegal. Even if the war was triggered by Hezbolah was justified, if Israel really used that weapon it was wrong. Israel has legal weapons that are non less lethal, but fragmentation bombs are illegal accordingly to international laws.

About the rest, I have talked about it + Israel has never leveled or bombarded indiscriminately any place in it's history.

IDF, is a part of the Israeli society. It's me, the neighbor, the girlfriend, the doctor and the accountant. You can't say that Israelis as people are ok, and the IDF is bad. It's people's army.

Nodin - as much as I would like to think as you, I think that you are falling into the mistake of comparing Muslim ideology to what is familiar to you from home. It's not the same case. Doing one sided and rash moves could lead Israel into instability.
I think that the common person would agree to almost any resolution with Israel, but many extremists won't as it would be a part of profanation of Allah and the Koran. You and me and most of Israelis want the same but we don't agree on the way.

I think that Israel should negotiate with the Palestinians all the time. I don't know why it is all so slow. I know that there are many things that I don't know about the difficulties of negotiating + the Palestinian side has a major contribution to that.

For all the rest - LOL

Overheal · 23-03-2011 11:18AM

The Israeli wrote:

In reality, the international community has no real force.. Not when it comes to enforcing something on idealistic people.
I really hope that by getting behind 67's line, the Arabs will accept peace. However, taking the statements of many Palestinian leaders and fighters, I'm a bit skeptical in that. However, it should be tried, because it's the only option for getting peace. Although, it can't be an Israeli one sided move, as with every piece of land that Israel retreats from, it has to know, that the force which goes to replace it there, would be peaceful and will prevent any attempt of their own people to violate peace.

What do you have in mind, for a bi-lateral action then to insure that?

FlutterinBantam · 23-03-2011 12:50PM

Mahatma coat wrote: »

LOOK you miserable little Zionist apologists.

Get Your Facts Straight

The Palestinians are NOT Firing Rockets at Israel,

They are Firing Rockets at an Israeli force of Occupation and Illegal Settlements on THEIR Land

In your opinion.

Don't you think it's childish to be writing in large print.

NTMK · 23-03-2011 01:08PM

The Israeli wrote: »

NTMK - The weapons Israel uses in it's fights are legal. Even the weapon with white phosphorous, which as I remember wasn't used against people but as an assisting substance for something. I can google about it, if you describe in what way this weapon was used against international laws - evidence quotes.
If Israel is wrong, I'll admit it, but as being a part of the army (reserves) I know for sure what the army uses in routine and it's completely standard weaponry as every country has - in terms of dangerous substances.
There was said, which I don't know for sure, that Israel used fragmentation bombs in the fights with Hezbolah in 2006. This weapon is illegal. Even if the war was triggered by Hezbolah was justified, if Israel really used that weapon it was wrong. Israel has legal weapons that are non less lethal, but fragmentation bombs are illegal accordingly to international laws.

About the rest, I have talked about it + Israel has never leveled or bombarded indiscriminately any place in it's history.

IDF, is a part of the Israeli society. It's me, the neighbor, the girlfriend, the doctor and the accountant. You can't say that Israelis as people are ok, and the IDF is bad. It's people's army.

White Phosphorous is legal to use as a smoke screen and to light up areas
but it is illegal to deploy it below 200ft (not sure of exact height) theres been multiple photographs taken of it being released much lower than the minimum height and in densely populated areas. This is a truely nasty chemical as it burns flesh and bone

here is a press release from amnesty about it
http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/israeloccupied-palestinian-territories-israel039s-use-white-phosphorus-a

and heres a link on how israeli attacks destroyed infrastructure in Gaza.
http://http://www.un.org/children/conflict/english/palestine.html

I really should have phrased the part about the IDF better. the vast majority of Soldiers are fine its the Commanding officers that authorise these attacks and the israeli goverment i have a problem with

Your goverment should be seen to take the high ground instead of punishing the people of palistine for what a group of extremists do and incase your wondering most palistinian people dont want this war with israel

Nodin · 23-03-2011 01:53PM

The Israeli wrote: »

Nodin - as much as I would like to think as you, I think that you are falling into the mistake of comparing Muslim ideology to what is familiar to you from home. It's not the same case. Doing one sided and rash moves could lead Israel into instability.
I think that the common person would agree to almost any resolution with Israel, but many extremists won't as it would be a part of profanation of Allah and the Koran. You and me and most of Israelis want the same but we don't agree on the way.

...the usual special pleading, in which the Palestinian is singled out as a uniquely dangerous beast. It's funny, but when the Palestinian movement was largely secular, there were excuses then too.

The Israeli wrote: »

I think that Israel should negotiate with the Palestinians all the time. I don't know why it is all so slow. I know that there are many things that I don't know about the difficulties of negotiating + the Palestinian side has a major contribution to that..

I already linked to the leaked documents concerning negotiations that show the Palestinian side more than concillatory and the Israeli demanding more each and every time. Your considered response to that was to post a link to an anti-Palestinian website and head for the hills....

The Israeli wrote: »

For all the rest - LOL

It's been proven scientifically. I'd suggest saving the LOL and perhaps looking it up.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 23-03-2011 01:58PM

The Israeli wrote: »

[About the rest, I have talked about it + Israel has never leveled or bombarded indiscriminately any place in it's history.

Erm, it has.. Lots of times.

Zebra3 · 23-03-2011 02:01PM

The Israeli wrote: »

Israel has never leveled or bombarded indiscriminately any place in it's history.

You're right there.

It has always been happy enough to take civilian Palestinian casualties.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 23-03-2011 02:06PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

You're right there.

It has always been happy enough to take civilian Palestinian casualties.

Actually your wrong too.

Considering the intensity the IDF attacked Gaza in 2006 and other times, the IDF has extually taken extra ordinary steps in trying to prevent civilian casualties.. Hard to believe, but 'tis the truth.

Moment of truth for leftists (except scumlord because he likes The Zohan)

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