Moment of truth for leftists (except scumlord because he likes The Zohan)

gcgirl

Fuhrer wrote: »

Also, did Israel really invent the Cell Phone?


I never heard that.

They also invented The Jedward
Their cleaver androids

Morlar

gcgirl wrote: »

They also invented The Jedward

That's just not a nice thing to say. I don't care what they've done but there is a line you don't cross.

The Israeli

Oh, I get ya now

Every time israel does it (e.g. fire at a civilian population) it's a 'mistake', no matter how many times it's done
but if the arabs do the same thing it's 'terror'

Do the palestinians care about the lives of their own. Have you looked at that from that point of view. The funny thing is that they relay on Israel not to fire (and it works in many occasions) on them while they are hiding behind civilians, who they don't give a c*** about.

gcgirl wrote: »

They also invented The Jedward
Their cleaver androids

Well, you told me that people here aren't anti Semite, but I have counted many stupid Jokes as this one.
I personally, don't get offended and don't give a damn about, but just for your notice.

TheRevolution

The Israeli wrote: »

And how about terrorists hiding weapons in HOSPITALS, mosqus, and firing from citizens back yards and HOMES!
The bombing of the UN building that you are talking about in 2008 was a mistake, but there are evidence that Hamas and others are launching rockets and firing from schools.
don't be a hypocrite. Check how it was in realitiy.
AND of course, in wars, like in every wars, mistakes are made.
I would like to say from the bottom of my heart and it reflects the Israeli opinion: really sorry for all the innocent people that have been killed during the Israeli actions against terror. Don't think that Israel deliberately is doing it as a way of policy.
Unlike some arab organizations that deliberately fire on civilian population. what for? to free Palestine.

It wasn't a mistake, The UN had given the IDF the co-ordinates and told them the building was sheltering 1,400 innocent civilians. Israel decided to fire on the building anyway breaking the Geneva Convention (a war crime)

I love how you try to justify Israel's actions on the basis of what a terrorist organization does. Its akin to America going in a shooting a load of children in an Aghan village and then saying "ummmm well terrorists that were trained in Afghanistan also deliberately kill innocent people so we thought it would be o.k"

Your country is a racist, disgusting, vile, disgrace of a place.


Anyone that is interested in seeing how the Israeli propaganda machine and limitation of the foreign press works please watch this

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#2926706

Unseen footage of what Israel is really doing in Gaza, sickening.

Morlar

The Israeli wrote: »

Well, you told me that people here aren't anti Semite, but I have counted many stupid Jokes as this one.
I personally, don't get offended and don't give a damn about, but just for your notice.

Going by the way you describe that joke, I'd say you are either trying to be manipulative, disingenously playing the eternal victim or you are just not in close touch with reality.

gcgirl

Oh sorry
To be honest if people forcefully moved me out of my own home killed my family, friends and neighbours, I'd be pissed so regardless of location this should not happen be it Bray or Hebron

Overheal

The Israeli wrote: »

Well, you told me that people here aren't anti Semite, but I have counted many stupid Jokes as this one.
I personally, don't get offended and don't give a damn about, but just for your notice.

Anti-Israel != Anti-Semite

Some of my nicest neighbors were Jewish. But they were also Americans, leading peaceful lives and not slaughtering people or building their homes on anybody's land but their own.

Phill Ewinn

What a horrible, horrible thread. If you're an adult OP you're responsible for whatever part you play in this. If you're calling on other peoples to ''wake up'' and find some support for your regime you won't find it within me. Take an objective view if you can.

nacho libre

The Israeli wrote: »

AND of course, in wars, like in every wars, mistakes are made.
I would like to say from the bottom of my heart and it reflects the Israeli opinion: really sorry for all the innocent people that have been killed during the Israeli actions against terror. Don't think that Israel deliberately is doing it as a way of policy.
Unlike some arab organizations that deliberately fire at civilian population. what for? to free Palestine.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/me...ast.observers/

that was a mistake?

the killing of Tom Hurndall that was also a mistake.

Rachel Corrie's killing was another unfortunate mistake

the bombing of a un compound in Lebanon in 1996. another mistake

http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/300/350/355/april-war/un-report/qana2.html

it seems clear your engaging in distortion to justify crimes.

Tahuti

I never knew Jedward were Jewish.

gcgirl

I don't know if it's a coincidence but the last couple of weeks I read up a little on Palistine and really opened my eyes, post 1945 Jewish agency's were sending people to Palistine regardless of what they actually wanted, there was a case of Austrian Jews who wanted to go back to Austria and had to fight the Jewish agency to go back to their home.

Nodin

The Israeli wrote: »

Let me tell you: In Ireland people in this age commit suicides too, and you don't such have an army service as we have.
There are many reasons for that. Since 48, about 28500 Israelis have been killed in wars and terror attacks. How many commited suicides?
.

We're talking about the occupation. Since Abbas quietened down the West Bank, the casualties are far more likely to be self inflicted than caused by the Palestinian side.

The Israeli wrote: »

When you say that, what do you mean? + The Druse population in the Golan are citizens and do enjoy of all the benefits. They wouldn't get a better life in any other arab state.
.

The majority of the Arab residents disagree with the occupation.

Most of the Arabs in Golan are Druze, members of a sect that split from Islam centuries ago and has large followings in Lebanon, Syria and Israel. Unlike most of the Druze in Israel, those here identify themselves as Arabs and do not serve in the Israeli military. The vast majority consider themselves citizens of Syria, although a small percentage support Israel's presence here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/29/AR2006102900926.html

The Israeli wrote: »

again, you are ignoring of the facts that led us to that situation. That isn't important in your eyes.
If the arabs would have agreed to take the majority of the land in 48', everything would be looking different. Sorry that we have won despite of all statistic odds, and secured our borders.
Why don't you mention how it has all started. I wonder what do you think about our modern history starting from 1880.
Who contributed more to this situation: we or the arabs?
.

The question is who is contributing more to it now.

The Israeli wrote: »

I'm a bit tired, but I read some of it. The guardian isn't so pro Israeli. Right. There are non Israeli sources that say other things too. The peace process has started a long ago. Israel has offered a lot during Ehud Barak's cadence which resulted in the second Intifadeh and the bloodiest mess that has ever been with the Palestinians. 2000-2003.
Please refer to the link at the bottom.
.

They are leaked documents from negotiations. They say what they say if they appear in the Jerusalem Post or Al Arabiya.

The Israeli wrote: »

The Jordenians don't want them there.. remember Black September?.

And whats that to do with the fact that they fled from the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem (which rather undermines your previous claim), exactly?

The Israeli wrote: »

You try to shut your eyes on the reallity so hard. wake up, it's the reallity calling. we have a reallity here. You haven't given any solutions. If you want, go over the summeries of all the peace negotiations and tell your conclusions. I'm taking about years 93-2010.. Pay attention to the "wonderful" time between 93 -97, 2000-2002. Israel has tried many different approaches. Sadly enough, the current approach saves the most amount of Israeli lives.?.

I've been following this issue a few years (well over 20). Even in my span, its been very noticable that though the excuses change, and the violence peaks and troughs, the settlements creep onward.

A solution is the two state one, with a contiguous West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem, no 'right of return' and a land swap for settlements on or immediately adjacent to the 1967 border. All other settlements to be removed. Golan is something that has to be settled between Syria and Israel seperately.

The Israeli wrote: »

The civilian population was and is partly still hostile..?.

After 44 years of occupation and settlement, I'd say 'mostly' rather than "partly".

The Israeli wrote: »

It was a part of the campaign against Israel. They didn't accept the UN
Guys, you can read see and judge the REAL (direct sources) evidances to the fact the Palestinian leadership is not truly commited (saying the least) to the peace process!

http://www.palwatch.org/Home.aspx
...

Thats a site dedicated to slagging off the Palestinians. I provided you with direct evidence of the recent negotiations already. I'd suggest addressing the contents.

The Israeli

Overheal wrote: »

Anti-Israel != Anti-Semite
.

Are you a programer?

( != )

Nodin

nacho libre wrote: »

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/me...ast.observers/

that was a mistake?

the killing of Tom Hurndall that was also a mistake.

Rachel Corrie's killing was another unfortunate mistake

the bombing of a un compound in Lebanon in 1996. another mistake

http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/300/350/355/april-war/un-report/qana2.html

it seems clear your engaging in distortion to justify crimes.

It would appear that there are no spec savers in Israel....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/4534620.stm

suicide_circus

People who use the phrase "moments of truth" should be shot.

Zebra3

Katkatim wrote: »

Actually most settlers are ordinary people who ended up living in the West Bank for economic reason, not ideological reasons. They live there because they can afford it. Governments that made mistakes and allowed settling there are to blame, not the people.

The people are to blame, they are breaking international law and they know it.

They are criminals.

irishconvert

The Israeli, can you explain why Israel has expanded so much as per the map below?

How much further will it expand?

Why is it expanding so much?

Do you believe God promised this land to Jews?

Overheal

The Israeli wrote: »

Are you a programer?

I'm someone who knows the difference between an Israeli and a Jew

gcgirl

Excuses excuses excuses thats all you'll ever hear off the Israeli government

Zebra3

irishconvert wrote: »

Why is it expanding so much?

Because of the zionists' policy of ethnic cleansing.

arybvtcw0eolkf

TheRevolution wrote: »

Also to those Irish posters supporting the OP, its a disgrace to support the IDF if you're Irish considering how many Irish peacekeepers Israel have killed.

So how many Irish soldiers would you say its ok to kill before it gets to a level where we should feel disgusted?.

RichieC

irishconvert wrote: »

The Israeli, can you explain why Israel has expanded so much as per the map below?

How much further will it expand?

Why is it expanding so much?

Do you believe God promised this land to Jews?

"facts on the ground"

The Israeli

A quick respond just to the map posts, and some words:

The settelments are marked in blue.
Palestinian territories in brown.
Territories that Israel holds but without settelments are marked in grey.

http://www.btselem.org/Download/Settlements_Map_Heb.pdf

It's from 2002, but if you have a real updated map from now, but not this green big spot, you can show.
This map is really detailed, and from by Betzelem, means you should be ok with it.


Any objective comments to the mattereal on this site?

http://www.palwatch.org/Home.aspx
It looks really bad for the palestinians over there, but surprise surprise, no one relates to it.

I'm slightly disappointed. I though we would have a real discussion over here, in which we would try to understand both sides. Apperantely, all what I do is fighting back.
Seams like that I'm of the very few here (but glad that there are some) that are willing to see both sides: The palestinians that want their land back and suffer daily at security posts and more, and the Israeli security needs + the circumstances that led it in that situation. Also, I told my opinion about the difficulty of a permanent stable solution, but most of the writers aren't willing to think about what is possible, but only about what is desirable.
Maybe we should agree not to agree, and that's all.

I'll answer on some of your posts later , though I don't see a reason fr doing that, since it stopped being a real discussion where both sides read and refer.
I'm not offended or something, guys. It's just tiring.

The whole reason for posting this thread was to show the Israeli mainstream opinion. Hope I have done it truthfully.

Overheal

The Israeli wrote: »

A quick respond just to the map posts, and some words:

The settelments are marked in blue.
Palestinian territories in brown.
Territories that Israel holds but without settelments are marked in grey.

http://www.btselem.org/Download/Settlements_Map_Heb.pdf

It's from 2002, but if you have a real updated map from now, but not this green big spot, you can show.
This map is really detailed, and from by Betzelem, means you should be ok with it.

It's a good thing I can read Hebrew! I always knew that would be useful.

You know as well as I do the settlements have expanded a lot since 2002. Hell when Vice President Biden visited you greeted him by announcing more expansions. Well done.

I'm slightly disappointed. I though we would have a real discussion over here, in which we would try to understand both sides. Apperantely, all what I do is fighting back.
Seams like that I'm of the very few here (but glad that there are some) that are willing to see both sides: The palestinians that want their land back and suffer daily at security posts and more, and the Israeli security needs + the circumstances that led it in that situation. Also, I told my opinion about the difficulty of a permanent stable solution, but most of the writers aren't willing to think about what is possible, but only about what is desirable.
Maybe we should agree not to agree, and that's all.

I'll answer on some of your posts later , though I don't see a reason fr doing that, since it stopped being a real discussion where both sides read and refer.
I'm not offended or something, guys. It's just tiring.

The whole reason for posting this thread was to show the Israeli mainstream opinion. Hope I have done it truthfully.

You've successfully shown the Israeli Mainstream Delusion, yes.

The Israeli

Overheal wrote: »

It's a good thing I can read Hebrew! I always knew that would be useful.

You know as well as I do the settlements have expanded a lot since 2002. Hell when Vice President Biden visited you greeted him by announcing more expansions. Well done.

I explained what is where. How about hebrew lessons? I give for free.

Your map is from 2000.. How about that.

You've successfully shown the Israeli Mainstream Delusion, yes.

Well, it's your opinion. There are more than 8000 views. I'm more curious what the silence majority think. It can't get much worse :P

Zebra3

The Israeli wrote: »

The whole reason for posting this thread was to show the Israeli mainstream opinion. Hope I have done it truthfully.

You have.

You've shown that Israeli mainstream opinion doesn't give a toss about the people whose land you illegally occupy and illegally settle as well as international law.

You must be so disappointed that we're not as gullible as those who believe your propaganda as spewed by the likes of CNN and Faux News.

America will soon be bankrupt and will not be able to afford to bailout Israel.

If a new regime in Egypt tears up the peace deal, your economy is finished (Israel defence spending as a %age of GDP dropped from 30% to 8% following the peace accord with Egypt).

Israel needs to complete a just and lasting peace with the Palestinians soon.

RichieC

Zebra3 wrote: »

Israel needs to complete a just and lasting peace with the Palestinians soon.

I can totally see that happening!! :pac:

Overheal

The Israeli wrote: »

Your map is from 2000.. How about that.

Not my map, but are you saying you've withdrawn from those 2000 borders?

The Israeli

Overheal wrote: »

Not my map, but are you saying you've withdrawn from those 2000 borders?

I'm saying that it's not accurate. My map isn't accurate since it's from 2002, but much more than the green one.
If you think that my map is biased, so be it.

RichieC

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XRyDF3c2S-s/SwmpnREC44I/AAAAAAAADVs/wSdONGVKBKU/s1600/israel_two_state_solution_map.jpg