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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Is a minimum delivery of petrol legal?

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Comments

  • #32
    pippip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭pippip


    Can they enforce this rule under law?

    Even if they have a sign up and you only put 5euro in your car and they refuse to accept your Laser/Credit card can they force you to purchase more as you can simply tell them they can take the fuel back.

    I don't think they would be in a position to do anything other than put the transaction through.


  • #33
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,689 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    Under contract law, a shopkeeper does not have to return change to you. So for example, if she bought €7 of petrol and only had €10, legally the shop keeper doesnt have to return the €3. It is the duty of the person who is playing for goods, to have the correct amount of money. Anything over is regarded as a "gift" and its the discretion of the shop keeper to return it. Its a weird stipulation within the law, but I doubt any business would last if they kept to this practice. I know that this isint really what the OP was on about, but there are plenty of weird things out there!!


  • #34
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    If you have already consumed the goods (read put petrol in the car) then a debt has been incurred.

    Legal tender (cash) must be accepted in settlement of a debt. If they refuse, then you may legally leave without paying.

    If they subsequently bring you to court (unlikely over a €5 but still) the defense of "legal tender was proffered but refused" is a valid defense and you will be acquitted.


    EDIT: As antodeco said above, legal tender must be accepted but there is no obligation to give change


  • #35
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    robinph wrote: »
    I'd say it's a "not less than €10 charged to a card" and nothing to do with if you drove in the the petrol station in a car, bike or lawnmower and how much petrol they will sell you. She just needed to have a different method of paying for her items, or buy a bar of chocolate or something to take the price over a tenner.

    Minimum delivery of 2 litres is usual, but they have never said anything about the minimum cost at the pump.

    ^^ This. It's more likely that she wanted to pay by Laser or Credit Card, and the minimum transaction on these is usually €10, due to the surcharges the retailer incurs. Minimum petrol delivery is usually 2L - I've never seen signs indicating any more than this.
    So it's most likely she bought <€10 of fuel and wanted to pay by card.


  • #36
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    Forest Master wrote: »
    So it's most likely she bought <€10 of fuel and wanted to pay by card.
    +1

    thats what I assume. No shop will turn away a transaction via cash, even if its only break even. Better to break even than not have a sale.


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  • #37
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    +1

    thats what I assume. No shop will turn away a transaction via cash, even if its only break even. Better to break even than not have a sale.
    Exactly - looks like the OP got his wires crossed and made a whole load of fuss over nothing. People freaking out with "The worlds gone mad" statements, when it's based on duff info.


  • #38
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,010 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Forest Master wrote: »
    Exactly - looks like the OP got his wires crossed and made a whole load of fuss over nothing. People freaking out with "The worlds gone mad" statements, when it's based on duff info.
    Except for the fact that the OP came back and said that it definitely was "cars", not "cards"

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  • #39
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    28064212 wrote: »
    Except for the fact that the OP came back and said that it definitely was "cars", not "cards"
    He's backtracking though to avoid looking stupid.


  • #40
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,010 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Forest Master wrote: »
    He's backtracking though to avoid looking stupid.
    ...What?
    Blitzkrieger wrote: »
    "There's a minimum delivery of 10 Euro for cars"
    Blitzkrieger wrote: »
    Definitely said cars
    How is that back-tracking exactly?

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  • #41
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    28064212 wrote: »
    ...What?


    How is that back-tracking exactly?
    Apologies - he's not backtracking - he's being stubborn by sticking to his story even though he knows it's wrong now.
    He thought it was Cars - then he realised it was actually Cards - and now he's trying to pretend it was DEFINITELY cars. He won't even name the station so it can be verified.


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  • #42
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Forest Master wrote: »
    He's backtracking though to avoid looking stupid.

    Unless you know something the rest of us don't, I think this is a pretty "stupid" statement. Pot, kettle, and all that stuff....


  • #43
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Forest Master wrote: »
    He's backtracking though to avoid looking stupid.
    Forest Master wrote: »
    Apologies - he's not backtracking - he's being stubborn by sticking to his story even though he knows it's wrong now.
    He thought it was Cars - then he realised it was actually Cards - and now he's trying to pretend it was DEFINITELY cars. He won't even name the station so it can be verified.

    Has he been asked to name the station? Has he actually refused to name it?

    I foresee some more backtracking in the near future.... mmmmm?


  • #44
    bladebrew
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭bladebrew


    it must be cards, i have seen signs saying minimum laser card transaction €10,
    i used to have a moped with a 7litre tank and never had trouble putting 3,4, or 5 euro in,


  • #45
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Has he been asked to name the station?
    biko wrote: »
    Which garage is it?

    Biko asked him on Page 1 and he ignored the request. He should just name the station, so his story can be verified. I still reckon he made a mistake and is now sticking to his guns to avoid looking stupid. And I'll keep believing that as long as he doesn't provide the evidence to verify his story.


  • #46
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    OK, and now we re-state the request to name the garage. If he ignores it again, I'd say it's fair for your spidey senses to be tingling.
    Until then, I'd say you're being a little harsh.


  • #47
    zuroph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    Stealthirl wrote: »
    sorry to go OT but what ?

    BOI is abandoning laser, its expected that will be the end of it and AIB will follow suit.


    There is plenty ridiculous about cash. Ireland uses cash too much. if it was electronic, we wouldnt as taxpayers spend so much on safe cash transit, and there would be less scope for tiger kidnappings. Its an inefficient antiquated way of doing business. the example of someone going into a petrol station, using the atm to take out 20, then paying for their petrol, thats ridiculous, and happens all too often. that €20 note doesnt need to be in the shop at all, and presents all sorts of extra security issues for the shop.


  • #48
    tobsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭tobsey


    As an aside I'm pretty sure the "minimum delivery 2 litres" is purely there so that the pump is accurate. There will be a slight difference between what the clock says and the exact amount of fuel that was pumped, could be more or less. I think the pumps are rated to be accurate to acceptable limits but only after 2 litres have been pumped. I don't think it's the petrol stations doing it to force people to get more petrol.


  • #49
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,472 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    tobsey wrote: »
    As an aside I'm pretty sure the "minimum delivery 2 litres" is purely there so that the pump is accurate. There will be a slight difference between what the clock says and the exact amount of fuel that was pumped, could be more or less. I think the pumps are rated to be accurate to acceptable limits but only after 2 litres have been pumped. I don't think it's the petrol stations doing it to force people to get more petrol.
    You are correct, here is the explanation from UK trading standards.
    All petrol and diesel dispensers have electric pumps and the dispense can occur when this mechanical lever on the nozzle is squeezed. Each delivery commences when the customer lifts the nozzle from its stowage point and has been authorised by the forecourt operator. The customer can then take fuel, including short stops as might occur if the customer wants to completely top up his tank, or get to exactly £20 say. The delivery ceases when the customer returns the nozzle to the dispenser stowage point. We require the dispenser to be accurate for any quantity greater than two litres. For type approval we carry out tests at the minimum delivery and various other quantities, and at different flow rates. We also carry out a flow interruptio >test to ensure that the dispenser is still accurate when the flow stops and starts within a delivery. The limitation of a two litre minimum delivery is mainly an acknowledgement that the dispenser is less accurate with smaller deliveries due to a number of random errors that become insignificant with larger quantities. However I would accept that the uncertainties of our test methods also tend to increase with smaller quantities.


  • #50
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    -Chris- wrote: »
    OK, and now we re-state the request to name the garage. If he ignores it again, I'd say it's fair for your spidey senses to be tingling.
    Until then, I'd say you're being a little harsh.
    So shall we assume I'm right then? The OP has been online since; I've seen him browsing this forum since yesterday - yet no naming of this "disgraceful" garage that only allows €10 minimum fuel transactions, because he knows it doesn't exist.


  • #51
    Blitzkrieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭Blitzkrieger


    Forest Master wrote: »
    Apologies - he's not backtracking - he's being stubborn by sticking to his story even though he knows it's wrong now.
    He thought it was Cars - then he realised it was actually Cards - and now he's trying to pretend it was DEFINITELY cars. He won't even name the station so it can be verified.

    Hmm. I've looked like an idiot here before and will do again, and getting in a prolonged argument with you over something so trivial would definitely, sorry, DEFINITELY, make me look like one.

    I haven't named the station because I don't think it's relevant. I am positive he said cars.

    I think the original question of legality is still in a bit of a grey area. I can't see it being a problem - I was just curious.


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  • #52
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It's perfectly legal, but it depends on how and where it's stated.

    If it says "Minimum charge €10" on the pump, and the person begins to pump then they have explicitly accepted this minimum charge.

    Other utilities do the same - think minimum call charges on phones.


  • #53
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    Blitzkrieger wrote: »
    I haven't named the station because I don't think it's relevant.

    Of course it's relevant, otherwise what's the point in posting the story? I could just make up a completely random story about a garage I was in that said "no black people" or "jews not welcome" - but it's just as moot as your point because it can never be verified because I won't give any more details.
    Blitzkrieger wrote: »
    I am positive he said cars.
    So you're saying he said it applies to "cars" only, and not vans, motorbikes, trucks, jerrycans, etc, etc....? Seems to me that if he had a €10 minimum delivery policy, he would say it applies to "all vehicles" - and not just "cars" which happens to sound like "cards", which coincidentally also have a €10 transaction limit & is most likely what the owner was "wearily" saying when you misheard & made a mountain out of nothing! :rolleyes:

    So either back your story up, or leave this topic quietly with your tail between your legs. You can't just start mouthing off about what a disgrace something is when it's all just mis-hearsay; that's how urban myths get started like "did you hear about this guy who..... disgraceful innit?" - never happened.

    If you name the garage and someone on here (or even me) lives nearby and can verify your odd claim, then I'll admit I was wrong and that I was out of line and I'll apologise for saying you're full of it. But if you can't provide any evidence whatsoever to back up your dubious story, how can you expect to have any credibility? There is no downside to naming the garage, because it's not slander if it's indeed a fact like you claim.


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