Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Moment of truth for leftists (except scumlord because he likes The Zohan)

12357…16

Comments

  • #122
    old_aussie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    nyarlothothep wrote: »
    The Israeli isn't really making any attempt to defend his argument. Could he be an Irish person posing as an Israeli???

    No, the author appears to be able to spell and have a fair understanding of grammar.


  • #123
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Now, listen to what happened Saturday. One or more terrorists infiltrated the community of Itamar, which is located beyond the protective fence.

    Stopped reading there. This "community" as you call it is in fact an illegal settlement. Every square centimetre of that land belongs rightfully to the Palestinians.

    Nothing whatsoever can justify killing another human being. The terrorists who did it are scum. But I put it to you, that it would never have happened had the 'community' you refer to not been built on somebody else's home, farmland, or whatever it was before 1967. If you choose to live in an area you have absolutely no rightful claim to, you can expect those who do have such a claim to be pissed. To move into an illegal Israeli settlement is like sticking your willy into a wasp's nest. Nobody would claim that the wasps are justified in stinging you, but the practical fact remains that this is almost certain to happen.

    In other words: The easiest way to prevent such terrorism is not to build walls - it is to vacate unconditionally the entirety of the illegally developed area. Then people won't have a reason to be angry with you in the first place.


  • #124
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Archie D Bunker wrote: »
    Show me one case where an Israeli slaughtered a 3 month old baby like that...

    There is a big difference between innocents killed unintentionally during army operations and this kind of barbarism.

    And sorry, in my opinion land grabbing does not justify murder.

    Unintentionally? Did you read the reports about the Gaza war? The intention of that was to bully the Palestinians into "democratically" ousting Hamas. This is the DEFINITION of terrorism - using violence to force political changes out of fear.

    Pot. Kettle. Black.

    Also, land grabbing doesn't justify murder but nonetheless it is a cause of it.

    To give you an analogy, burglary doesn't justify murder either. In the states, where many people have guns, it's quite likely that if you break into someone's house, you run the risk of being shot.

    The person who shoots you is an absolute dickhead. There's no excuse whatsoever for killing another human being. Ever. But nonetheless, if you know you run that risk, the easiest thing to do is to play it safe and NOT burgle the guy in the first place. After all, burglary itself is wrong too.


  • #125
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    There's no excuse whatsoever for killing another human being. Ever..

    Yeah, there is.


  • #126
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,266 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    When you've been asking people to see reason without success for decades, and you're backed into a corner with the odds firmly stacked against you, you're hardly going to be polite.

    The Israelis weren't polite when they wanted their own state, so they can't really expect the Palestinians to be. Some Israelis at least, can see that their government hasn't handled the situation at all well, but they're obviously in the minority, or something constructive would have been done by now.


  • Advertisement
  • #127
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    prinz wrote: »
    Yeah, there is.

    I'm quite surprised that you hold this opinion!
    I agree with you, mind, but it's just not a view i thought you'd have.

    @OP. In any shape or form of conflict, from a punch up in a pub to a full scale war, you kinda have to look at how it came to violence in the first place. It seems to me that the state of israel is extremely provocative and largely deserving of all the hatred they recieve. And also this whole notion that any criticism of them is anti semitic is just ridiculous.
    People don't hate Israel because you're jewish, they hate you cos your barbaric and oppressive. The treatment of the palestinian people is outrageous and considering you have a tendency to harp on about how much you've suffered as a people, you would imagine it should have thought you some form of empathy for the suffering of others, but no you continue on inflicting pain on others like it's some god given right of yours. You really need to take a long hard HONEST look at yourselves as a people and what you have become. It's not pretty.


  • #128
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I'm quite surprised that you hold this opinion!
    I agree with you, mind, but it's just not a view i thought you'd have.
    It's not really it's just being rational. Nobody can say for a certainty that they will never need to murder another human. It may become necessary for the greater good.


  • #129
    Greyjoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Went to see Mark Thomas the other night.

    He had a special on the whole 'conflict' as he has just walked the around the wall that surrounds the West Bank.

    Came across as a tit and if anything he made the whole thing sound trivial: kids threw stones at him and he was asked for ID, that was about it.

    Trivial? He described how scary the barrage of rocks was and that he imagined how terrifying it would be for a young Israeli soldier in that situation. Then you had stories of stuff like the inhuman 'cattle market' style process they had for allowing people through the security checkpoint into Israel from palestinian side or the awful story about the kids having to walk through a tunnel of sewage and human waste in order to reach their school on the other side of a settler road.


  • #130
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I'm quite surprised that you hold this opinion! I agree with you, mind, but it's just not a view i thought you'd have.

    I wouldn't revel in it, nor is it something to be done lightly, but to claim that there is never an excuse to kill someone is an ideal that very, very, very few people in history have been able to uphold.

    I wouldn't be able to stand by and allow horrible things to happen if I had the power to stop it by causing someone's death therefore there are valid excuses for causing the death of other humans IMO. Just war etc.

    Come to terms with it afterwards.


  • #131
    The Israeli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    A quick correction: When I said that people in the west bank enjoy of the Israeli services I meant to the people of West Jerualem.

    I'll try to comment later on some oher stuff that came up.


  • Advertisement
  • #132
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    What's even more blinkered than the OP (in fairness, they are in a position of bias) is the people who thanked them.
    And "leftists"? Oh there are people on the right who don't like Israel's terror tactics, you can be sure of it.

    I heard a Palestinian man on the radio whose three daughters were indiscriminately slaughtered by the Israeli DF - ****ing shame on people who back them. And shame on people who back Hamas which does similar stuff. Shame on anyone who actually makes excuses for violence and murder no matter what the cause...


  • #133
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Dudess wrote: »
    What's even more blinkered than the OP (in fairness, they are in a position of bias) is the people who thanked them.

    And I see 'The Devil' thanked the OP - :mad:


  • #134
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Dudess wrote: »
    Shame on anyone who actually makes excuses for violence and murder no matter what the cause...

    Unless it's for a good cause.


  • #135
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Brooklynn Unkempt Postage wrote: »
    And I see 'The Devil' thanked the OP - :mad:

    :pac: 2000 years later and The_Devil and Jesus_Christ have finally found something to agree on for Lent.


  • #136
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    prinz wrote: »
    Unless it's for a good cause.

    Murderers having being using the good cause excuse for thousands of years.


  • #137
    The Israeli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Ok, for not writing the same stuff again and again about operation Cast Lid, here is my old articale:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055992695

    To the people who tell how hateful Israeli people are:
    It's very not correct. During the years, you can say 1993 Israel has tried many different approaches like engaging into open peace talks, giving territories to the the Palestinian authorit, supplying it with weapons so they could stand on their feet against terror organization, and restraining military actions against terror organizations and letting the palestinian authorities to do the arrests.
    With years, we have understood that this approach doesn't really work, because the softer Israel was the more aggresive the terrorists became.

    Whoever thinks that if Israel would give up on all it's claims on the territories and withdraw to the 67 lines is SERIOUSLY delusional.
    Have you been listeing to the terrorists speachs? The one that face the camera armed with weapons, masks on, and speak about Jihad, massacring jews and freeing Palestine. Do you seriously believe they will be sutisfied with 67 borders.. They won't. When Israel withdraws from territories, the violance goes on.

    I am and many others in Israel want peace, and they are ready to pay the price and go back to 67. Howere, Israel needs guarantees that the Palestinians will not attack once Israel is back to 67' borders, and who is going to guarantee that? Hamas in Gaza? Abbas in the west Bank? Do the killers in Itamar obey him?
    We will be back to 67', but only after a long peace proccess in which every side proves it's devotion to it.

    Their is a very large public that believes that it of it's right to live in the territories, and until there won't be solid peace negotiations and a quite front, the Israeli public will not make demands from any government to evacuate them - and it's fair. It would be a half suicide in giving up land and letting the terrorists come closer to the Israeli mainland without guarantees.

    Israelis don't just hate arabs. We would love to shop and travel again in the West bank as before the 1993 agreements (the irony..).
    We are on good turms with most of the Israeli arab citizens, and many people loved not a long ago to go on Vacations in Egypt and especially Turkey.
    I have arab friends and many others too, and opposed to the experience of some people here on the forum, most of the people that I know of don't hate the palestinians personally or hate them at all. They just don't trust them to be in peace with them, and every terror attack shakes their belief that it's possible.

    I know that there will be a resolution one day. Nothing lasts forever.


  • #138
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    karma_ wrote: »
    Murderers having being using the good cause excuse for thousands of years.

    Yeah that's wonderful, meanwhile the world keeps turning, murder is one thing, claiming there is never a good excuse for violence is something completely different.


  • #139
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Ok, for not writing the same stuff again and again about operation Cast Lid, here is my old articale:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055992695

    To the people who tell how hateful Israeli people are:
    It's very not correct. During the years, you can say 1993 Israel has tried many different approaches like engaging into open peace talks, giving territories to the the Palestinian authorit, supplying it with weapons so they could stand on their feet against terror organization, and restraining military actions against terror organizations and letting the palestinian authorities to do the arrests.
    With years, we have understood that this approach doesn't really work, because the softer Israel was the more aggresive the terrorists became.

    Whoever thinks that if Israel would give up on all it's claims on the territories and withdraw to the 67 lines is SERIOUSLY delusional.
    Have you been listeing to the terrorists speachs? The one that face the camera armed with weapons, masks on, and speak about Jihad, massacring jews and freeing Palestine. Do you seriously believe they will be sutisfied with 67 borders.. They won't. When Israel withdraws from territories, the violance goes on.

    I am and many others in Israel want peace, and they are ready to pay the price and go back to 67. Howere, Israel needs guarantees that the Palestinians will not attack once Israel is back to 67' borders, and who is going to guarantee that? Hamas in Gaza? Abbas in the west Bank? Do the killers in Itamar obey him?
    We will be back to 67', but only after a long peace proccess in which every side proves it's devotion to it.

    Their is a very large public that believes that it of it's right to live in the territories, and until there won't be solid peace negotiations and a quite front, the Israeli public will not make demands from any government to evacuate them - and it's fair. It would be a half suicide in giving up land and letting the terrorists come closer to the Israeli mainland without guarantees.

    Israelis don't just hate arabs. We would love to shop and travel again in the West bank as before the 1993 agreements (the irony..).
    We are on good turms with most of the Israeli arab citizens, and many people loved not a long ago to go on Vacations in Egypt and especially Turkey.
    I have arab friends and many others too, and opposed to the experience of some people here on the forum, most of the people that I know of don't hate the palestinians personally or hate them at all. They just don't trust them to be in peace with them, and every terror attack shakes their belief that it's possible.

    I know that there will be a resolution one day. Nothing lasts forever.

    That's all very well but the whole cluster-fúck out there is a complete catch-22 situation. Both sides are so entrenched in the opinions and so the violence continues in a vicious circle. What we need is for one side, and in reality it should be the most powerful side to offer a genuine olive branch and step back. Sure it will likely take some time to build trust, but as long as Israel thins they can defeat terrorists by being heavy handed and thinking Hamas et al can be pulped into submission surely they must have realised by now that this will never happen?


  • #140
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I happened to like "don't mess with the Zohan" so I'm not Anti-Semitic at all. Can you amend the post to say all lefties (except scumlord)?

    and me, yer wan outa entourage is nice. so please ammend to take me out of it also


  • #141
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Ok, for not writing the same stuff again and again about operation Cast Lid, here is my old articale:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055992695

    To the people who tell how hateful Israeli people are:
    It's very not correct. During the years, you can say 1993 Israel has tried many different approaches like engaging into open peace talks, giving territories to the the Palestinian authorit, supplying it with weapons so they could stand on their feet against terror organization, and restraining military actions against terror organizations and letting the palestinian authorities to do the arrests.
    With years, we have understood that this approach doesn't really work, because the softer Israel was the more aggresive the terrorists became.

    Whoever thinks that if Israel would give up on all it's claims on the territories and withdraw to the 67 lines is SERIOUSLY delusional.
    Have you been listeing to the terrorists speachs? The one that face the camera armed with weapons, masks on, and speak about Jihad, massacring jews and freeing Palestine. Do you seriously believe they will be sutisfied with 67 borders.. They won't. When Israel withdraws from territories, the violance goes on.

    I am and many others in Israel want peace, and they are ready to pay the price and go back to 67. Howere, Israel needs guarantees that the Palestinians will not attack once Israel is back to 67' borders, and who is going to guarantee that? Hamas in Gaza? Abbas in the west Bank? Do the killers in Itamar obey him?
    We will be back to 67', but only after a long peace proccess in which every side proves it's devotion to it.

    Their is a very large public that believes that it of it's right to live in the territories, and until there won't be solid peace negotiations and a quite front, the Israeli public will not make demands from any government to evacuate them - and it's fair. It would be a half suicide in giving up land and letting the terrorists come closer to the Israeli mainland without guarantees.

    Israelis don't just hate arabs. We would love to shop and travel again in the West bank as before the 1993 agreements (the irony..).
    We are on good turms with most of the Israeli arab citizens, and many people loved not a long ago to go on Vacations in Egypt and especially Turkey.
    I have arab friends and many others too, and opposed to the experience of some people here on the forum, most of the people that I know of don't hate the palestinians personally or hate them at all. They just don't trust them to be in peace with them, and every terror attack shakes their belief that it's possible.

    I know that there will be a resolution one day. Nothing lasts forever.
    The problem I'd have with this is it seems to blame the other side. I don't blame either side because I'd wager both sides have people saying the same things there's just a fear of losing out to the perceived enemy. It takes two to tango and that's a fact as far as I'm concerned, neither side in innocent.

    Like Karma_ says there doesn't seem to be any possible solution to this as neither side can really find a way to make peace with each other.

    It's a hard position to be in, it's horrible that such suffering takes place across the board on both sides, it makes no sense. But I don't see any possibility of a solution with the attitudes both sides take. Until you change your opinion you can't expect them to. I'm not saying your wrong to feel the way you do it's the default emotional response but it won't fix any of your problems.


  • Advertisement
  • #142
    Chairman Meow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭Chairman Meow


    The Israeli wrote: »
    by Assaf Wohl


    some pro israeli bull****

    Piss off.
    The world knows what youre up to over there but noone does anything cause youve got the backing of the US. Dont try and come across liek youve actually got some sort of valid reason for booting Palestinians out of their homes. Piss off and bomb some palestinian children or whatever it is you do over there


  • #143
    teddy_303
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭teddy_303


    It is also well known that it is the Zionists that stall the peace talks while the illegal construction continues on occupied territory. Shame on them.


  • #144
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,687 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    teddy_303 wrote: »
    Get off their land and stop using the hollocaust as a licence to commit war crimes and acts of depravity, against civillians using illegal weapons on children and the elderly, as a form of collective punishment, by your murderous unconscionable government. pfft.

    Someone tell the British to get off our land too.

    Have any other countries stolen land in the past too?, we should tell them to give it back as well its only fair.


  • #145
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    Someone tell the British to get off our land too.

    Have any other countries stolen land in the past too?, we should tell them to give it back as well its only fair.
    I'm pretty sure that technically Ireland invaded the island of Britain first after the Romans left, so we where in fact colonised by plastic paddies.


  • #146
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    prinz wrote: »
    Yeah that's wonderful, meanwhile the world keeps turning, murder is one thing, claiming there is never a good excuse for violence is something completely different.
    There is sometimes necessity for proportionate self defence - blasting a house with a family in it into oblivion does not constitute the above.


  • #147
    Kadongy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Kadongy


    This is not someone trying to change people's minds. This is someone trying to stir up people who already think the same way.

    Who is this pernicious agitator? Just some a5shole trying to make a name for himself?


  • #148
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    Someone tell the British to get off our land too.

    Have any other countries stolen land in the past too?, we should tell them to give it back as well its only fair.

    Well, if the Israeli's want peace, thats what they need to do (give the Palestinians some of there land back, basically the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem). That or have a single state where Palestinians are given equal rights, but such a state could not possibly be a Jewish state.

    Now those 2 options are the sane ones, the Israeli could just go for there current Apartheid solution (where constant low level violence will continue), or ethnically cleanse or kill all the Palestinians for the insane solutions.

    So, whether you like it or not, there are millions of stateless Palestinians. They need some place to call home. So that either needs to be a Palestinian state, or a singular state that encompasses the Israel and Palestinian terroritries. Its pretty vile that anyone would suggest that millions of people should remain stateless (with no recourse to return home, or at least as close as possible), which essential means they have no government willing to back up there human rights.


  • #149
    Katkatim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭Katkatim


    First of all, to TheIsraeli - I read that article you posted when it was published on ynet yesterday. To sum it up - the guy is talking nonsense. Not only that, he's also inciting against left wingers, and if you really are in Israel as you say, you know all about the "anti left" sentiments that are growing and being encouraged by idiots like Liberman. For your information, "left winger" is not a curse, and most Israeli left wingers care about Israel at least as much as you, if not more. They look for what's best for the country, and unlike the extremists and "dreamers" on the right, they are realistic. By spreading this article (and I have no doubt you posted it on your facebook page as well) you're helping de-legitimize the Israeli left wing (and I'm not talking about the crazies that spread hatred against Israel. I'm talking about the average Israeli left winger). I think it's time to stop this. It's dangerous and unjustified.
    Also, the content of the article isn't accurate, but The Saint already replied to that.
    And lastly, stop trying to change people's minds on the internet. It's a waste of time.

    To the rest (and I'm not talking to people like Wes and Nodin, who, as I've seen in previous posts, just like to hate Israel and have zero ability to see the other side's flaws), I think you're missing out on a very important fact, and that is that terrorism didn't start with settlements. It was there way before Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza. Settlements are, no doubt, Israel's biggest mistake and biggest problem (yes, they're Israel's biggest problem - bigger than the Palestinian problem) but they're not the cause for terrorism against Israel's civilians. And as much as some don't want to admit, terrorism is a big part of the conflict, and is experienced by Israelis daily (you don't hear about it because your media doesn't bother reporting it). Anyway, here's an article that lists some of the main terror attacks against Israelis/Jews in Israel before 1967. Scroll down and you'll see.
    http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+before+2000/Which+Came+First-+Terrorism+or+Occupation+-+Major.htm

    It's a bit surprising that Irish people, who know terrorism in their past, ignore such an important part of a conflict.

    Lastly, if anyone was wondering, I'm not a regular poster hiding behind a fake User name. I sometimes read threads here, and this time I felt like responding.


  • #150
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,094 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Some facts:

    The majority of the Israelis as it seems to me are against further development of the settlements, but let's face some facts:
    Many of the palestinians hate Israel. Enough to comitte murders of innocents like on last friday.

    The adults killed last week were breaking international law. They were not innocents, they were criminals.

    I'd advise people to watch Occupation 101 on Youtube.


  • Advertisement
  • #151
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Katkatim wrote: »
    (and I'm not talking to people like Wes and Nodin, who, as I've seen in previous posts, just like to hate Israel and have zero ability to see the other side's flaws),

    I am more than capable of seeing both side faults and come to my own conclusions. However, you seem incapable of not making things personal, which is a lot more telling, if you ask me.

    Also, btw you forgot the Zionist terrorism against Palestinians before Israel was even created, and the entire concept of the Iron wall, which goes back to the 1920's. Then there was the business of ethnic cleansing in 1948. To accuse me of hatred, and being one sided, and leave out all the crap Zionists pulled before Israel even existed is a tad hypocritical if you ask me. Also, you source come from an Israeli government web site, and yet you actually accuse others of being one sided? Seriously you have given me a good laugh with that one.

    Also, who in there right mind would think going to another country, with the express intention of getting rid of the indigenous populace to set up there own state, would not result in violence? Were the Palestinians just meant to lie down and let Zionists turf them out of there homes to make way for a Jewish state? Sorry, but I think Zionists are living in a fantasy world, if they think that there entire project was not inherently a violent one, that would be met with violence in return.


Advertisement