Moment of truth for leftists (except scumlord because he likes The Zohan)

Star Bingo · 14-03-2011 01:31AM

i sign on with my left hand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCGcljqOSW0

strobe · 14-03-2011 01:32AM

The Israeli wrote: »

Some facts:

The majority of the Israelis as it seems to me are against further development of the settlements, but let's face some facts:
Many of the palestinians hate Israel. Enough to comitte murders of innocents like on last friday. Currently there is no better solution, of course it's not removing it. Israel tries to be fair in allowing the Palestinians to move within their territories in the west bank and letting them work in Israel and get medical treatment. Together with that, it has to be very careful not to allow terrorists in side of Israel, or not to let them harm soldiers who are given with this sisyphic hard job 24/7.

If it would depand on me and some many others, Israel would freeze the development beyound the green line. However it's not really possible. Some of the places there have gone relatively big, and the people that live there demand forther developmnt because that the population grows.

Currently the cooporation with the palestinians in the peace proccess is pretty frozen. They don't have a strong leadership, and until they solve their internal conflict between Fatach in the east and Hamas in Gaza in the west (which is very hostile towards Israel) there won't be breakthroughs in the peace process. Therefor, the government allows them to cotinue the building. Though, everybody knows that many of the places would have to be evecuated if there will be peace agreament one day. Right now, this future seems distant.

I know that many human rights are being violated on a daily bases, but I look on the big picture, and it means: protect human lifes in all cost until you have better options.

Awww bless. All they want is living space (or Lebensraum for our German posters)? Well that's OK then.

Wibbs · 14-03-2011 01:33AM

Hey don't get me wrong The Israeli, given a choice between the western democratic, technological forward looking nation of Israel and many of the Islamist nations surrounding it and the medieval morons contained within. I'm sooooo behind you and no mistake. I'd defo be fighting with the IDF not against it if I was living there.

But and it's a big but, while you're trying to get rid of the mad Islamic imams, while you're at it get rid of those insane Torah quoting Jewish/Yank setters with the silly ringlets and daft "customs" too. Neither will do your nation any good. I suspect that for many Jews/Israelis they think similar but not too loudly... And maybe lose the BS and the hypocrisy too. At least in regard to the Arab "problem" and the settlement. IE http://sydwalker.info/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/palaestine_wiped_off_the_map.jpg Like I say I am behind Israel in that area. I would not be too happy with the increasing Islamist crapola in the region, but all too often Israeli's forget you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Oh and lose the martyr/holocaust vibe. It's lost its impact for most at this stage through repetition. Not unlike The Famine(tm) in Ireland. Appalling tragedy yes, but stop trying to define yourselves by it in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Overheal · 14-03-2011 01:35AM

The Israeli wrote: »

Some facts:

The majority of the Israelis as it seems to me are against further development of the settlements, but let's face some facts:

You can't say "this is a fact" and then cite your subjective observations. That doesn't make it a fact.

The North Koreans believe Kim Jong Il controls the weather with his moods, that doesn't make it a fact.

If it would depand on me and some many others, Israel would freeze the development beyound the green line. However it's not really possible. Some of the places there have gone relatively big, and the people that live there demand forther developmnt because that the population grows.

"I would have stopped raping her but I already had my _____ up her ______"

Thats essentially what you're saying here.

I know that many human rights are being violated on a daily bases, but I look on the big picture, and it means: protect human lifes in all cost until you have better options.

So you admit to violating Human Rights.

Thanks.

Wibbs · 14-03-2011 01:37AM

Star Bingo wrote: »

i sign on with my left hand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCGcljqOSW0

I remember that well. One of the first records I bought.

The band with more left handed mutants than any other I can think of.

chillywilly · 14-03-2011 01:44AM

Jesus and the Devil thank the original post. Ha!

Star Bingo · 14-03-2011 01:47AM

Wibbs wrote: »

I remember that well. One of the first records I bought. The band with more left handed mutants than any other I can think of.

only noticed that! seems early UB40 were a good group, just the majority of fanbase i don't particularly wanna mingle with ;-

carry on..

seafood dunleavy · 14-03-2011 01:52AM

They tuk our jobs.

Overheal · 14-03-2011 01:58AM

seafood dunleavy wrote: »

They turk our jobs.

fyp

The Israeli · 14-03-2011 01:58AM

Wibbs - I'm not using the holucost as an excuse to anything, but it was a big factor in the establishment of Israel and a warning, that if the jews won't defend themselves, no one will.
Thank you for your partial support. However, the freedom of ritual is a basic right in Israel for Christians, Muslims and Jews. so, their appearance and customes is their personal thing, as long as they doesn't violate laws. The big majority of the Jewish religious aren't extremists.

Overheal - yes, I agree that Israel violates some human rights like:
Extensive invasive body searches, some arrests of suspects for interigation and etc. But listen, when it comes to timing, like the inteligence tells you that there is a strong indication that on a specific day some man, woman will try to infiltrate in Israel and commit a terror attack, the securty forces have to be very meticulous in their actions, or people will die.
This causes segnificat delays in border crossings, and in tragic times, ill palestinian people may not get meidal treatment in time. Though, it doesn't happen a lot, and the amount of daily security warnings is immense, so the army is doing a great job.

Overheal · 14-03-2011 02:00AM

Justify it to yourself however you want bud but don't look for sympathy here.

If anything Israel spreading it's tendrils across the internet just makes them look bad.

strobe · 14-03-2011 02:01AM

The ends always justify the means?

The Saint · 14-03-2011 02:03AM

The Israeli wrote: »

Some facts:

The majority of the Israelis as it seems to me are against further development of the settlements.

True, but unfortunately a small but powerful group that hold the balance of power in the government don't and hold Israel's best interests to ransom with their ideological views which I'd assume are counter to yours given where you are from.

The Israeli wrote: »

Many of the palestinians hate Israel. Enough to comitte murders of innocents like on last friday.

I'd be very careful to assume what Plaestinians think about Israelis and to paint them with the same brush as the person that mudered that family in Nablus.

The Israeli wrote: »

Currently there is no better solution, of course it's not removing it. Israel tries to be fair in allowing the Palestinians to move within their territories in the west bank and letting them work in Israel and get medical treatment. Together with that, it has to be very careful not to allow terrorists in side of Israel, or not to let them harm soldiers who are given with this sisyphic hard job 24/7.

Unfortunately what you are saying is not entirely accurate. There are severe restrictions on movement within the Territories. Also, with the Barrier, there are tens of thousands of Jerusalem ID holders seperated from Jerusalem and from their centre of life including medical treatment, education and social services. On the other hand there are thousands of West Bank ID holders caught on the Jerusalem side of the Barrier that are not allowed to access Jerusalem for any services. They now have to travel long distances throught at least one checkpoint to access services in the West Bank.

Those living in the area between the Barrier and the Green Line are also severed from medical treatment and education. A number of people have died at checkpoints going from these areas into West Bank hospitals due to access restrictions. Women have given birth at checkpoints, sometimes stillborn due to the stress.

The Israeli wrote: »

If it would depand on me and some many others, Israel would freeze the development beyound the green line. However it's not really possible. Some of the places there have gone relatively big, and the people that live there demand forther developmnt because that the population grows..

The large settlements you are talking about are commuter towns going to Jerusalem. The centre of life is Jerusalem. Furthermore, the rate of construction is higher than the natural rate of population growth in the settlements. The rate of construction in the settlements has also been much higher than the rate of construction for the same sized populations within Israel itself.

Also, in the large settlements many of the homes are rented accommodation for people working in Jerusalem such as is Gilo, Har Gilo Ma'ale Adummim, Pisgat Ze'ev, French Hill, Ramot, etc. They are not being built out of necessity. They are being built and populated with government incentives for idological reasons, even if many people living within these Blocs are not idealogical and barely know that they are actually living in settlements.

The Israeli wrote: »

Currently the cooporation with the palestinians in the peace proccess is pretty frozen. They don't have a strong leadership, and until they solve their internal conflict between Fatach in the east and Hamas in Gaza in the west (which is very hostile towards Israel) there won't be breakthroughs in the peace process. Therefor, the government allows them to cotinue the building. Though, everybody knows that many of the places would have to be evecuated if there will be peace agreament one day. Right now, this future seems distant.

Look at what is happening on the ground. Look at what the world is saying and look at what your government is doing. There are a lot of people in Israel who are waking up to the fact that it is not everyone else that is the problem. If you look at the situation seriously and objectively then I'm sure you would re-evaluate your stance. Anyway, using the stalled peace talks as a reason to continue construction would seem counterproductive to getting peace talks started, no?

The Israeli wrote: »

I know that many human rights are being violated on a daily bases, but I look on the big picture, and it means: protect human lifes in all cost until you have better options.

This view really saddens me. Look at these human rights violations that you are willing to overlook and ask yourself how many of these actually contribute to Israel's security and what does the opposite through taking actions that radicalise people by conducting such actions.

House demolitions
House evictions
destruction of property
destruction of water sources
restricting construction of homes for Palestinians
Restricting goods, including food items, that those living between the Barrier and Green line can bring to their homes.
Restricting access to medical and education services.
Restricting access to farm land due to the Barrier so that only 18% of those that used to work the land can now do so thereby incresing unemployment and desparation.
Bedouins and Herders in Area C of the West Bank under full Israeli control having higher rates of child stunting and malnutrition than those in Gaza.
Etc.

I think if you really think hard about these things and look into yourself and your own moral fabric you might reconsider some of your views.

I have met quite a few Israelis who held the same views as you. However, when they were shown what impact what they were advocating has, they began to question their beliefs. Unfortunately most Israelis don't know what is going on in the Territories. From my experience, when they do learn more they become less attached to the view that security comes at any cost and see the real impact that some of these policies have on real human beings. I hope that you can do the same.

The Israeli · 14-03-2011 02:32AM

The saint, I can tell you right now that I agree with 99% of the things you have mentioned. I know that their life is hard. Also, you know many details that I don't know, so I in order for me to answer on every claim, I will have to study a lot more.
however, I also just look at it from the point: what is the alternative?

Did you know that the people in the west bank get all the medical services from Israel as other Israeli citizens? They also get paid with the national insurance money on monthly bases. They wouldn't get this good benits if they lived completely under the Palestinian athorities.

In the end of the day the given situation is this:

We have people that live in settelments and while the palestinians are not in the position of seriously negotiating they will continue to live there and build. I can't say if they overbuild there or not. I don't know about that enough. I guess that in some areas they do, and in some areas there is a great shortage of places to live in.

Another outcome of the settelments is that they phisically shield Israel from the Palestinians. They take a lot of the fire on themselves and give the Israeli mainland some breathing space. Therefor, Israel isn't keen about evacoating them without a solid peace process.

If we won't protect ourselves Israeli people will get murdered. As conciquance of that protection, many palestinians suffer. What's next?
It's the milion dollars question.

Many westerners think that if you give to the Arab nations benefits, democracy and human rights they will cease all violance and become like them.
It doesn't work in most cases, unfortunately. Maybe with after many years, but not just like that. There are many examples to that.

Mahatma coat · 14-03-2011 02:43AM

Eh Lad, its Painfully simple how you solve the problem of being attacked

FVCK OFF BACK WITHIN YOUR OWN BORDERS

End the apartheid state

Apologise for being a Shower of Cnuts

Simples

Gneez · 14-03-2011 02:49AM

Excellent troll

The Israeli · 14-03-2011 03:07AM

Mahatma coat and people that think like him:

If we f*** up to our borders, will you be responsible for the outcomes?
Why do you think that it will bring peace? Do you have some past experience with that?

Israel f*** up from Gaza, and what? Have they become more peaceful or showed any sign that they are willing to become more peaceful are ready to sit and negotiate? Not at all.. Ask them what they want:
Free all Palestine..
I think that the simple men do just want to bring money home, and take care of their families. Other people want to fight, and they will.

Back to point A: It's not so simple as you think, and the solution isn't simple.
The people that live in Israel aren't cold blooded murders and their culture is much more similar to the Irish culture than you think.

Before you criticise Israel again, think: what can be done differently given the situation. If you don't know the situation and still want to have an opinion, study, or come and see by yourselves, and if not, at least don't be hostile without a real understanding.

Mahatma coat · 14-03-2011 03:42AM

OK When I say that Israel should Fcuk off inside its borders I mean
The internationally recognised 1947 Borders, not some arbitrary Border that the Israelis decide upon.

Maybe then, Maybe if ye stopped Persecuting the Palestinians they MIGHT stop fighting back.

Mahatma coat · 14-03-2011 03:45AM

and what Similaraties are there between the Israelis and the Irish????????

IMO Most Irish would feel a closer affinity to Palestinian Christians who have been disenfranchised bullied persecuted and robbed.

Pauleta · 14-03-2011 03:49AM

Mahatma coat wrote: »

OK When I say that Israel should Fcuk off inside its borders I mean
The internationally recognised 1947 Borders, not some arbitrary Border that the Israelis decide upon.

Maybe then, Maybe if ye stopped Persecuting the Palestinians they MIGHT stop fighting back.

Balls, Even when they do stop pre-emptied strikes, the Palestinians still launch rockets into civilian areas. The likes of Hamas will never accept a world that isnt under sharia law. Even if they got their wet dream of exterminating the planet of the Jewish. They will strive to induce their sicko ways on the rest of the world.

RichieC · 14-03-2011 03:53AM

Pauleta wrote: »

Balls, Even when they do stop pre-emptied strikes, the Palestinians still launch rockets into civilian areas. The likes of Hamas will never accept a world that isnt under sharia law. Even if they got their wet dream of exterminating the planet of the Jewish. They will strive to induce their sicko ways on the rest of the world.

You haven't an iota what you're even talking about.

Mahatma coat · 14-03-2011 03:53AM

those "civilians" you weep about are Illegal Settlers occupying Land STOLEN from the Palestinians.

if you dont want to get shot at by the Palestinians dont steal their land and push them into a ghetto

strobe · 14-03-2011 03:55AM

The Israeli wrote: »

Mahatma coat and people that think like him:

Legendary username!

If we f*** up to our borders, will you be responsible for the outcomes?

Obviously not.

Why do you think that it will bring peace?

Maybe versus never. I know which I'd prefer.

Do you have some past experience with that?

Yes, obviously. You realise where boards.ie is based?

Israel f*** up from Gaza, and what? Have they become more peaceful or showed any sign that they are willing to become more peaceful are ready to sit and negotiate? Not at all.. Ask them what they want:
Free all Palestine..

Then take the gun out of Palestinian politics. Stop pretending that murdering Mothers will make their daughters peaceful?

I think that the simple men do just want to bring money home, and take care of their families. Other people want to fight, and they will.

On all sides, yes....unfortunately. You are not helping.

Back to point A: It's not so simple as you think, and the solution isn't simple.
The people that live in Israel aren't cold blooded murders and their culture is much more similar to the Irish culture than you think.

It is probably more similar to Palestinian culture than Irish culture?

Before you criticise Israel again, think: what can be done differently given the situation. If you don't know the situation and still want to have an opinion, study, or come and see by yourselves, and if not, at least don't be hostile without a real understanding.

Yes. But see it from both sides.

"It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was Us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things."

Sisko · 14-03-2011 04:32AM

It will be impossible for the world the sympathise with Israel when all the issues are the result of them stealing land after the 6 day war.

Israel kicked a lot of ass in the 6 day war, fair play to them. They should have kicked ass and went home, but no, instead, they decided to pull a hitler and steal loads of land around them. WTF is wrong with countries that do this, where is that basic understanding of right and wrong?

In the end it doesn't matter what atrocities Palestinians commit as Israel are the invaders, they are the ones in the wrong, they are 'the bad guys'.

How could you expect people to sympathise with you if you broke into your neighbours house, shot the parents, drove their kids out of the house into the backgarden and moved half your family in instead? Hard to feel like the kids are the ones in the wrong if they attack your family from the back garden....

If Israel did pull back to its own borders and Palestinians kept attacking world opinion would pull a U-Turn and fully support Israel.

& you kidding yourself if you just think its the leftists that are not happy with what Israel is doing. Its widely viewed as a rogue state, just like NK and Iran cept for the fact that the US supports them.

teddy_303 · 14-03-2011 05:09AM

Purely out of self interest, and nothing more. Murderous regime. :mad:

phosphate · 14-03-2011 05:17AM

Israel don't accept any objections to their illegal occupation of palestinian land / oppression of palestinian people.

They refute critics by calling them "anti-semites"

So, beware of laying any valid criticism against Israel because you wouldn't want to be called an anti-semite, would you?

Israel is requesting $20 billion from the US for military expenditure..this is when public unions are being destroyed in wisconsin, half of schools in detroit will be closed with class sizes increasing to 60 children per class.

But god forbid Israel doesn't get it's $20 billion for military or that the US "defence" budget is touched...

Israel are nothing but a parasite on the US.

dan719 · 14-03-2011 09:07AM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Now us Irish never really went on about the Famine to the rest of the world. The neglect of a starving people, eviction from their lands, forced onto coffin ships. We have moved on from that and today our relationship with Britain couldn't be better. You and your like, should take a leaf from our book, get over yourselves and rejoin the Human race.

Which is why so many of our fine citizens and fellow forum members are aghast at the idea of Queen Elizabeth making a visit to these shores?

Epic Lol at Irish people accusing anyone else of suffering a persecution complex.

14-03-2011 09:12AM

strobe wrote: »

Yeah...that's pretty fukked up Robert.

No it's not. Because of their selfish beliefs they think it's okay to move to West Bank lands and live there. They enjoy greater freedom than actual Palestinians. They have absolutely no regard for the Palestinians, often killing them or abusing them in some form or another, so why the hell would I have sympathy for them? As well as that it's pretty stupid to live there considering there is a fair risk of an attack from Palestinians. Regardless I wish all die-hard settlers a life of IBS, misery, annoyance, etc.

godwin · 14-03-2011 09:12AM

I was in Israel for a few months in my youth working on the kibbutz , beautiful country , real nice people... but every Israeli I met genuinely hated the Palestinians and was passionate in their hatred and as long as that sentiment continues there will never be a peaceful solution.

14-03-2011 09:22AM

tl,dr

Moment of truth for leftists (except scumlord because he likes The Zohan)

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