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WTF? Developer gets elected for Wexford who owes €40,000,000

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    foxinsox wrote: »

    Did any of you stand up for what you believe in and put yourself forward in the general election?
    Not this shit again...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Jaafa


    This is the guy.


    wallace 2.jpg


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭flash1080


    I don't see how people can have a problem with a property developer being elected because the majority of people have voted for FG, a party funded by property developers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    Gyalist wrote: »
    I remember when he was the contractor for Dublin Corporation doing the pavements near my business in Dublin 2. The work went on for more months than originally planned and coming up to Christmas, trade was down because of the disruption in the street. He was very understanding of the situation and worked late with his lads to get the pavement finished in time for the busiest weeks of the year.

    I remember this also .
    1996.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    Solnskaya wrote: »
    And it also helps that Mick Wallace is a sound skin who has done a huge amount for the youth in his own area, as well as being a man who never shied away from telling it like it is. I was delighted to see him elected, he is a very smart cookie and a breath of fresh air. His workers like him too. His developments in dublin are high quality and vibrant and add to the city in a positive way. And I don't have a good word to say about nearly anybody, usually. Go for it Mick.

    Which developments in Dublin are you referring to?

    BTW he does owe € 40mio to mainly foreign banks who if they issue proceedings against him, will result in MW being declared bankrupt. AFAIK bankrupts cannot be a TD.

    'Work hard, play hard' with other people's money?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Brenireland


    listermint wrote: »
    Bren Ireland is ranting from the hip with no solid basis.

    just like you done their so.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,348 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Mick Wallace is a gent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Delighted for him. Met him once, years ago in the Italian Quarter in Dublin. Chatted away for an hour or so in a cafe, it was only after he'd left someone told me who he was.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭PK2008


    Hahaha a developer got elected????:eek:


    Oh man, this country, Jesus wept!!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭fifth


    +1 PK2008

    Sure maybe there'll be a by-election within the year for whatever reason and Mick D'arcy (Wex FG who was pipped in the count) might get back in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭wow sierra


    I am delighted Mick Wallace got elected. I have admired the man for about 15 years for many and varied reasons - from first becoming aware of him because of the motto on his building vehicles "Work hard, play hard" and the football. Then I liked his appearance - despite running a sucessful company he dressed like a hippy, an individual.
    Then there were his political banners hanging a few stories high on the Dublin quays urging people to become aware of issues which were important to him at the time - sometimes I agreed with him sometimes not but I always admired his balls for expressing his views so strongly.

    I liked his passion for Italy which included bringing young soccer players there, becoming an expert in wine and becoming an importer of wine, setting up the very popular Italian Quarter of Italian restaurants and shops off the quays in Dublin.

    He has been involved hands on with underage soccer in Wexford for years as well as contributing in a huge way financially and with his time to Wexford Youths.

    I never met the guy but people who know him - like the electorate in Wexford for instance - really like him as a person.

    Some people contribute very little to society - some contribute a lot. Mick is one of the latter.

    I would be curious as to whether the OP had even heard of the guy before a month ago??


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ebixa82


    Retarded that some people try to tarnish all developers with the same brush. If the ignorant, lazy folk bothered to take the time to read up about Mick Wallace they might change their tune.

    He spoke out about the reckless actions of Irish banks and developers years ago. All the good work he has done and developments he built have been detailed already.

    He's a very smart and honest person. Thankfully the electorate had enough sense to vote him in. Best of luck to him!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭StephenHendry


    thats democracy lads, anyone can run as an independant , there were a few who ran and got less than 100 votes.


    mick is involved in everything it seems down in wexford , from wexford youths in the soccer to every other local thing. he seems an alright kind of guy as well


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,881 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    He is repaying his loans to the banks but he isnt repaying all the small people that he owes money to in wexford!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    By comparison ex Fine Gael Michael Lowry got in. Ivana Bacik with her anti-man bile is an a recount situation for a last seat and Labour has had its best ever result despite representing unahamedly Public Service workers and close links to the FAS & HSE slush fund people and Board members of the Central Bank.

    I wonder how much of this stuff will get buried with the coallition ???

    Well, it shouldnt if FG's new type of government has been elected as it should not be "power before principles".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    He is repaying his loans to the banks but he isnt repaying all the small people that he owes money to in wexford!!

    Don't pay the banks,get declared bankrupt and the small people never get their money.Which would you want?
    Wallace was always outspoken about developers and included himself in the criticism and derided the policy of greed that has us in the state we're in.All of his developments are in areas that ensure they are worth something and generate revenue unlike the countless vacant developments around the country so I reckon he needn't worry about bankrupcy.
    I'd rather someone outspoken and honest about his finances than the usual snakes we elected over the years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    There is a need to have someone like him in the Dail to challenge the Developer rhetoric we here.

    Enterprise culture.

    The problems we are in are not developer driven but banking and insufficient regulation driven

    It was an old fashioned banking collapse caused by a boom in credit by borrowed funds and not shareholders funds at the banks. The regulator should have spotted it.

    For those who are really interested


    Recommended: Patrick Honahan on the Irish Banking Crisis

    12 August, 2009


    For a balanced and informative overview of the Irish banking crisis, I recommend “Resolving Ireland’s Banking Crisis” by Patrick Honahan in The Economic and Social Review, Vol. 40, No. 2, Summer, 2009, which is available online here.
    Described as a “Policy Paper”, it is written in a calm, dispassionate manner; however, if one deconstructs the understated and analytical prose, one is left in no doubt that we taxpayers are victims of a massive failure by our highly-paid regulators to do their job properly.
    It is worth reading all of it (and it is no hardship to do so), but here are a few quotes which I think are worth highlighting.
    Although international pressures contributed to the timing, intensity and depth of the Irish banking crisis, the underlying cause of the problem was domestic and classic: too much mortgage lending (financed by heavy foreign borrowing by the banks) into an unsustainable housing price and construction boom…..
    How could traditionally conservative banks – some of them with a 200-year history – have been so careless as to leave themselves exposed in such a conspicuous and obvious property bubble? ….
    Banks …. began to increase the share of their assets in property-related lending from less than 40 per cent before 2002 to over 60 per cent by 2006…..
    According to the 2006 census of population, some 15 per cent of the housing stock was vacant at census date, mostly reflecting speculative purchasing of additional housing by prosperous households (less than 3 percentage points of that being holiday homes)……
    …..a renewed acceleration of house prices from 2003 was also fuelled by a reversal of earlier tax tightening, reinforcing Ireland’s tax bias towards construction……
    …..banks had not been the main players in the residential mortgage market until the late 1980s: before then, fiscal privileges ensured that building societies held the lion’s share of that business. Thus the banks were not steeped in the deeply ingrained suspicion of the mortgage market as a source of systemic difficulties that now prevails in, for example, Japanese banks……
    A very simple warning sign used by most regulators to identify a bank exposed to increased risk is rapid balance sheet growth. An annual real growth rate of 20 per cent is often taken as the trigger. Each of the locally-controlled banks had at least one year in which this threshold was triggered. One of them, Anglo Irish Bank, crossed it in eight of nine years, and indeed its average annual rate of growth 1998-2007 was 36 per cent….. this was a very obvious and public danger sign not only for these two banks, but because of the potentially destabilising effect of reckless competition on the entire sector (Honohan, 1997). The rapid growth in the market share of Anglo Irish (from 3 to 18 per cent of the total assets of the six locally-controlled institutions that subsequently received the Government guarantee) was certainly an important influence inducing the other banks to relax lending terms to avoid losing even more market share……
    It might be thought that nationalising the banks on a semi-permanent basis and requiring them to pursue government objectives instead of profit would ensure an increased flow of lending enhancing the public good. But the evidence from around the world is that private for-profit banking systems have, in normal times, contributed more to growth (and poverty reduction) than government-controlled ones. The latter, responding to political pressures, tend to keep large but faltering borrowers afloat for much longer than is healthy for the economy as a whole (cf. World Bank, 2001, 2008, for reviews of the evidence). So, even for banks over which it acquires a controlling stake, I would not be advocating close administrative direction over lending policies. Government may wish to shape the overall strategy for its banks, but should remain at arms length from lending policy…….
    ….the danger of regulatory over-reaction must be present, and there is insufficient evidence in the public domain as to the current stance of regulatory policy. Reforms to incentive structures for management would of course be good. But much of the current global rethinking of regulatory design will not necessarily be particularly relevant to the Irish scene: the Irish problems relate to a very old-fashioned credit boom and not to financial innovation. The failure was one of insufficient scepticism on the part of the Regulator.


    http://puckstownlane.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/recommended-patrick-honahan-on-the-irish-banking-crisis/

    The cause and effect of the boom and the crisis are simple enough to analyse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭Korvanica


    OP try looking at some of Mick Wallaces other attributes instead of just "OMFG HE OWES 40M" ... you sound like a broken record for fooks sake


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,101 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    There is no doubt about it, Mick Wallace had some result but i suspect its primarily because of his work locally, particularly supporting local sporting clubs. He is also seen as a Maverick.

    What will however be interesting is if any of the Banks enforce judgments or seek bankruptcy because if this happens, his dail seat will be forfeited.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Korvanica wrote: »
    OP try looking at some of Mick Wallaces other attributes instead of just "OMFG HE OWES 40M" ... you sound like a broken record for fooks sake

    Yeah, but did he create the Euro - did he ????
    Monetary Union (EMU) entry that really started the housing price surge by
    sharply lowering nominal and real interest rates, thereby lifting equilibrium
    asset prices (Figure 2). The combination of higher population, higher income
    and lower actual and pros pective mortgage interest rates clearly provided a
    straightforward upward shift in demand, i.e. in the willingness and ability to
    pay for housing.3
    The problem is that property prices developed their own momentum and
    overshot equilibrium levels as calculated by all models.

    The full Patrick Honahan article is here

    http://www.esr.ie/Vol40_2/Vol-40-2-Honohan.pdf

    The German & French banks lent to the Irish and the Euro created unprecedented circumstances.

    Simply, not Mick Wallace a builder from Wellington Bridge Wexford's fault.

    I cant see how it is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    There is no doubt about it, Mick Wallace had some result but i suspect its primarily because of his work locally, particularly supporting local sporting clubs. He is also seen as a Maverick.

    What will however be interesting is if any of the Banks enforce judgments or seek bankruptcy because if this happens, his dail seat will be forfeited.
    Eh, he's in debt in the same way that a mortgage holder is in debt. He's making payments, not defaulting on them. THe banks have no reason, or legal standing to go after him unless he can't make payments, but the same could be said of any td who has a mortgage and doesn't make payments. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,101 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Nevore wrote: »
    Eh, he's in debt in the same way that a mortgage holder is in debt. He's making payments, not defaulting on them. THe banks have no reason, or legal standing to go after him unless he can't make payments, but the same could be said of any td who has a mortgage and doesn't make payments. :rolleyes:

    Yes indeed he is and i am not suggesting he is not making repayments etc, just pointing out the fact that if say a bank went after him (as a lot are with other developers) he could face the risk of being declared bankrupt which essentially means he can not serve in the dail.

    For the record, i have long admired Mick Wallace and congratulate him. He has a record of decency, particularly when it comes to his employee's which is a Far cry from other developers, won't name anyone but i think anyone in the sector knows whom i refer too.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Bumped into him this morning, believe it or not.

    Also not sure I would agree with just anybody seeking - and getting office - but Wallace seems to be OK. At leas he has made some social contribution: nice restaurants, the commerical rejuvantion of that stretch of the north Liffey and Wexford Youths, who he appears to finically support in a sustainable, comunity-based way and not a vanity model that lopsides wages in the league of ireland.

    From what I know, he's not welching his debts and taxpayers are not footing them and as such, the amount shouldn't be held against him.

    I think some people has simply swung from an unthinking embrace of economic policies (An extra tenner a week, cool! fuck the underpiaid and the doomsayers) to a misplaced (and far too late) outrage any tenuous target that presents itself. Witness some of the arguments in this thread that amount to little more than he has debts = he is a cunt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭Dublin_Gunner


    HoneyRyder wrote: »
    It matters a lot. Owing 40 million shows he isn't very good at decision making for a start. But I'm not worried about that when it's his own business, but electing him to government where he'll be making decisions on the country's behalf makes it everyone's business.


    Hold on, owing money to banks means he isn't a good decision maker?? Have you ever ran a business or developed??

    I'm sorry, but the amount of tripe spouted by clueless posters is astonishing.

    He took loans to get his projects off the ground, like any other business or developer. There is ALWAYS risk involved.

    Things didn;t work out as he had planned - not his fault. His businesses are still making money though, and he's paying back his debts - just like he planned.

    He's poured money into his local community - not for gain or profit.

    People need to understand that merely 'being' a developer doesn't put you in the same league as the fookers leaving 1/4 finished housing estates around the country, and the tax paying public paying for their loans.

    If more developers were more like him, then maybe NAMA would never have come into existence in the first place.

    Get a clue before posting.

    Fair play to him, and honest developer. Few and far between they are, these days.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm



    People need to understand that merely 'being' a developer doesn't put you in the same league as the fookers leaving 1/4 finished housing estates around the country, and the tax paying public paying for their loans.

    If more developers were more like him, then maybe NAMA would never have come into existence in the first place.

    Even these guys took a risk - got loans etc - the lending policies of the banks and the regulatory environment which allowed them to lend was such.

    The banks need to be there - sure - but the bondholders who lent the money to the banks which got lent on to the builders own some of this problem too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Don't know anything about him, but sounds like a good guy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭alejandro1977


    A HIGH-PROFILE developer has accused Finance Minister Brian Lenihan of "not telling the truth" over claims that the majority of developers were making interest payments to Anglo Irish Bank.

    Mick Wallace of Wallace Construction said yesterday that he, along with a number of other developers, could not afford to pay their loan interest.


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-not-telling-truth-on-interest-payment-by-developers-1622498.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭wexfordia


    Hold on, owing money to banks means he isn't a good decision maker?? Have you ever ran a business or developed??

    I'm sorry, but the amount of tripe spouted by clueless posters is astonishing.

    He took loans to get his projects off the ground, like any other business or developer. There is ALWAYS risk involved.

    Things didn;t work out as he had planned - not his fault. His businesses are still making money though, and he's paying back his debts - just like he planned.

    He's poured money into his local community - not for gain or profit.

    People need to understand that merely 'being' a developer doesn't put you in the same league as the fookers leaving 1/4 finished housing estates around the country, and the tax paying public paying for their loans.

    If more developers were more like him, then maybe NAMA would never have come into existence in the first place.

    Get a clue before posting.

    Fair play to him, and honest developer. Few and far between they are, these days.

    Well someone running up 40 million euro in debt doesn't suggest that he has much business acumen. It is partly his fault by the way. It was his business and he was running it badly.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭Dublin_Gunner


    CDfm wrote: »
    Even these guys took a risk - got loans etc - the lending policies of the banks and the regulatory environment which allowed them to lend was such.

    The banks need to be there - sure - but the bondholders who lent the money to the banks which got lent on to the builders own some of this problem too.


    Yep, and I stated as much in my post. There is ALWAYS risk. Hence the term 'entrepreneur'. Wallace is the personification of that term.

    And as he's stated, he couldn't trust the Irish banks with the loans he wanted - hence he went elsewhere. Our banks tried to make a quick buck with high interest rates, rather than look at the long term future of the loan. This fooked up other developers who were not as clued in, and fooked over those who thought they'd get away with it by selling off their assets before being hit with the high interest rates.

    How wrong they were. They were / are the developers who took the huge loans, without any plan on how they'd pay them back.
    Well someone running up 40 million euro in debt doesn't suggest that he has much business acumen. It is partly his fault by the way. He was his business and he was running it badly.

    Get a clue. Seriously. 40m is NOTHING for a big developer. One medium sized residential site would have financed that no problem, if the bubble didn't burst.

    And Wallace, in fairness, is paying back his loans, and I believe his sites are earning profit. (if you take monthly income v loan repayment into account). He hasn't dumped his sites and ran off, leaving nama to pick up the deficit, and the rest of us paying the bill for an unfinished site and massive loan.

    Developers (as well as pretty much ANY business) always have relied on bank loans to pay for work to be done, it minimises their personal risk in a development. Anyone who thinks developers pay for everything out of their own pocket is seriously ignorant, or stupid. You decide which you are.


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