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anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    story of your life i presume

    When you start arguing with shadows, others tend to look around


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭wee truck big driver


    When you start arguing with shadows, others tend to look around

    who said that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    who said that?

    Me :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    lugha wrote: »
    You rather miss the point WC is making. If you don't fully support the protectors of the state (which does mean you cannot hold individual guards to account for wrong doing) then you cannot claim to be loyal to the state. And some of us think such folk are not fit to hold public office in this state.

    Couldn't have put it better myself.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,769 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    REMINDER...
    This is the General Election 2011 sub-forum of Politics, not AH (After Hours). If a few of you wish to make AH comments, please do so there, not here, per our charter.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭celtictiger32


    PauloMN wrote: »
    It would cripple small businesses because of increased costs, in a climate where more than likely they are selling less and having to reduce their prices. I don't understand your immigrant reference there, sorry.

    Yes I agree that voting for a party doesn't mean you have to agree to all their policies, but I would have thought that element of SF policy would be a biggie for someone considering voting for them? It certainly is a biggie for me not to vote for them, among others.

    if you dont understand the immigrant reference take a walk down to your local shop etc. its fairly obvious.

    as for the welfare thing being a biggie for you explain??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    dont forget it was afine gael t.d who drove out of the dail drunk and when was stopped by a member of the gardai told her he would get her sacked
    There is a bit of a difference between a once-off drunken, obnoxious bit of bad behaviour which was not condoned implicitly or explicitly by his party and the considered willingness of the SF party to allow members to refrain from condemning the murder of Jerry McCabe, even though this was AFTER their ceasefire has commenced, and hence after the effectively told us that they would travel the democratic road only. (This is what sets his murder apart from that of any other member of the gardai)


    And this is the problem. SF tell us that they are democrats, who fully recognise this state. But you cannot do that if you continue to be wishy washy in your condemnation of the murder of one of the defenders of this state. Could you take Micheal Martin seriously if he were to say that the new FF would only tolerate in its number, those whose ethics were unquestionably beyond reproach, after he promoted O'Dea?


    SF can lance this boil of half-arsed recognition of the state any time they want by insisting that members should drop references to “26 counties” and unreservedly condemn any attack on the defenders of the state. But it would seem that the prefer opt to keep on board, those amongst their number who are less than enamoured by this "democracy" mallarkey.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    Sinn Fein are like the BNP in Britain.

    They are a political party who jump on every little bandwagon going to try and appeal to the disenfranchised. They really don't have two sensible policies to rub together. And in my humble opinion, like the BNP, any party that appeals to the mob has no place in a modern democracy.

    I can't vote as I am out of the country but if I was back in Dublin I certainly wouldn't be voting for the Shinners.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭celtictiger32


    lugha wrote: »
    There is a bit of a difference between a once-off drunken, obnoxious bit of bad behaviour which was not condoned implicitly or explicitly by his party and the considered willingness of the SF party to allow members to refrain from condemning the murder of Jerry McCabe, even though this was AFTER their ceasefire has commenced, and hence after the effectively told us that they would travel the democratic road only. (This is what sets his murder apart from that of any other member of the gardai)


    And this is the problem. SF tell us that they are democrats, who fully recognise this state. But you cannot do that if you continue to be wishy washy in your condemnation of the murder of one of the defenders of this state. Could you take Micheal Martin seriously if he were to say that the new FF would only tolerate in its number, those whose ethics were unquestionably beyond reproach, after he promoted O'Dea?


    SF can lance this boil of half-arsed recognition of the state any time they want by insisting that members should drop references to “26 counties” and unreservedly condemn any attack on the defenders of the state. But it would seem that the prefer opt to keep on board, those amongst their number who are less than enamoured by this "democracy" mallarkey.

    which elction are we talking about here i thought it was the 2011 one, but all im hearing is crap being dragged up from the past. once again we see ff/fg getting worried about the rise in popularity of SF and using a smear campaign against them. and not even a meritable current one, one about events from history c'mon back to the present and maybe you'll see why the ff/fg vote is so laughable


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    if you dont understand the immigrant reference take a walk down to your local shop etc. its fairly obvious.

    No, it's not obvious. Please explain what you mean.
    as for the welfare thing being a biggie for you explain??

    The welfare issue is a biggie for me. I want to see everyone share the burden here, even if that means reducing welfare by a small margin. SF want to up welfare payment and bring back the Xmas bonus which I deem to be sheer lunacy. Hence it's a big issue for me, a deciding factor if you will.

    You have said you also feel welfare should be reduced which is at odds with SF policy, and welfare would - I imagine - be a big issue for SF supporters. Hence I was just making the point that it being a big issue, I don't get how you can vote for them.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭celtictiger32


    PauloMN wrote: »
    No, it's not obvious. Please explain what you mean.



    The welfare issue is a biggie for me. I want to see everyone share the burden here, even if that means reducing welfare by a small margin. SF want to up welfare payment and bring back the Xmas bonus which I deem to be sheer lunacy. Hence it's a big issue for me, a deciding factor if you will.

    You have said you also feel welfare should be reduced which is at odds with SF policy, and welfare would - I imagine - be a big issue for SF supporters. Hence I was just making the point that it being a big issue, I don't get how you can vote for them.

    why would you reckon welfare be a big issue for SF supporters


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,756 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm not a SF supporter in any way shape or form but some of the comments in this thread are just disgusting.

    Calling them murderers for instance. All the major parties in this country were involved in killings during their history.
    Please give details of any major party in this state involved in killings at any time when that party didn't have ex-Sinn Feiners as members.

    Please give details of any killings by Fine Gael , Labour, Green Party or PD's


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭wee truck big driver


    why would they stop refering to the 26 counties after all that is what they are. the fact of the matter most of sinn fein voters are republicans and while some people dislike that it doesnt change the facts . if sinn fein where to try and change their image they would lose most of thier support. i know other parties have no principles and will say what people want to hear and spend their life chasing votes. sinn fein are proud republicans unlike the other party who claim to be republicans. in fairness to fine gael since they gave the six counties away they have never made any claim to or pretended to want it back


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    why would you reckon welfare be a big issue for SF supporters

    SF has very much gone for the welfare sector vote for some time.

    I can only speak for my own experience but I have never met a SF supporter who wasn't either on long term benefits or a blue collar worker.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭wee truck big driver


    Please give details of any major party in this state involved in killings at any time when that party didn't have ex-Sinn Feiners as members.

    Please give details of any killings by Fine Gael , Labour, Green Party or PD's

    most of the murders commited in ireland arent commited by the ira so and most go undetected so onee can only guess who these people are or what party they may be affiliated to or support. going by the polls at the minute its fair to say the majority would be f.g supporters


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    most of the murders commited in ireland arent commited by the ira so and most go undetected so onee can only guess who these people are or what party they may be affiliated to or support. going by the polls at the minute its fair to say the majority would be f.g supporters

    You can't really compare things like that.

    Gerry Adams, the leader of Sinn Fein, was an active member of the IRA. There is widespread belief that he was at least aware in advance of the Northern Bank robbery. At least Martin McGuinness holds his hands up to what he has done.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    why would you reckon welfare be a big issue for SF supporters

    It's point #2 of their "6 reasons to vote SF". I guess they consider it a big issue.

    Aside from just SF, welfare is a big issue in general as welfare payments are costing this country a huge amount of money compared to what it is pulling in in tax receipts.

    Now, for the third time, could you do me the courtesy of explaining your immigrant comment?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    which elction are we talking about here i thought it was the 2011 one, but all im hearing is crap being dragged up from the past. once again we see ff/fg getting worried about the rise in popularity of SF and using a smear campaign against them. and not even a meritable current one, one about events from history c'mon back to the present and maybe you'll see why the ff/fg vote is so laughable
    Well I went to a bit of trouble to explain why it is still relevant but you don't get it. Or at least I will be charitable and assume that that is the case. And I notice you haven't addressed the point.
    BTW, can FF not make the same excuse for their various transgressions? After all, these are all in the past too.
    And it is not a smear campaign. I can assure you I will be bleating on about the same thing after the election. :) And said election is more or less done and dusted. SF will be the fourth biggest party and in opposition; nothing to be gained by smearing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    PauloMN wrote: »
    It's point #2 of their "6 reasons to vote SF". I guess they consider it a big issue.

    Aside from just SF, welfare is a big issue in general as welfare payments are costing this country a huge amount of money compared to what it is pulling in in tax receipts.

    Welfare payments in Ireland are just unsustainable. The money isn't there. I can't see how with the country in the state it is in SF think that welfare payments (already higher than the rest of Europe) should rise?

    Where do they think the money is going to come from?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭celtictiger32


    SF has very much gone for the welfare sector vote for some time.

    I can only speak for my own experience but I have never met a SF supporter who wasn't either on long term benefits or a blue collar worker.

    theres a typical ff/fg comment if ever i heard one. especially fg who woudnt be seen in a local community mixing it with us peasants, too far from their ivory towers.

    oh ye you've just been replying to someone thats neither of the above


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Where do they think the money is going to come from?

    The National pension reserve fund ? ;)


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Welfare payments in Ireland are just unsustainable. The money isn't there. I can't see how with the country in the state it is in SF think that welfare payments (already higher than the rest of Europe) should rise?

    Where do they think the money is going to come from?

    The answer is I do not know where SF would get this money based on their policies. Don't forget they'll be telling the IMF/EU to f**k off also.

    The answer SF will give is "from the rich, the super-wealthy, <insert populist crap here>" etc. etc. etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 905 ✭✭✭FUNKY LOVER


    You can't really compare things like that.

    Gerry Adams, the leader of Sinn Fein, was an active member of the IRA. There is widespread belief that he was at least aware in advance of the Northern Bank robbery. At least Martin McGuinness holds his hands up to what he has done.

    you know this how?was it not bertie who said this,ye id believe anything he said:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    lugha wrote: »
    There is a bit of a difference between a once-off drunken, obnoxious bit of bad behaviour which was not condoned implicitly or explicitly by his party and the considered willingness of the SF party to allow members to refrain from condemning the murder of Jerry McCabe, even though this was AFTER their ceasefire has commenced, and hence after the effectively told us that they would travel the democratic road only. (This is what sets his murder apart from that of any other member of the gardai)


    And this is the problem. SF tell us that they are democrats, who fully recognise this state. But you cannot do that if you continue to be wishy washy in your condemnation of the murder of one of the defenders of this state. Could you take Micheal Martin seriously if he were to say that the new FF would only tolerate in its number, those whose ethics were unquestionably beyond reproach, after he promoted O'Dea?


    SF can lance this boil of half-arsed recognition of the state any time they want by insisting that members should drop references to “26 counties” and unreservedly condemn any attack on the defenders of the state. But it would seem that the prefer opt to keep on board, those amongst their number who are less than enamoured by this "democracy" mallarkey.

    Actually, what happened to said TD and Garda?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭wee truck big driver


    You can't really compare things like that.

    Gerry Adams, the leader of Sinn Fein, was an active member of the IRA. There is widespread belief that he was at least aware in advance of the Northern Bank robbery. At least Martin McGuinness holds his hands up to what he has done.

    you can believe what you want but the facts are that there is no proof that the ira commited the robbery never mind that gerry adams knew of it in advance. also where is the proof that gerry adams was an active member of the ira. lastly given the choice between the ira allegedly robbing an english bank and the irish goverment including f.g and lab robbing the irish people and giving it to the banks of england france and germany i know which gets my vote


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    theres a typical ff/fg comment if ever i heard one. especially fg who woudnt be seen in a local community mixing it with us peasants, too far from their ivory towers.

    oh ye you've just been replying to someone thats neither of the above

    So you refer to yourself as a peasant but you are neither on welfare or a blue collar worker.

    What are you, a travelling banker?

    ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    you know this how?was it not bertie who said this,ye id believe anything he said:rolleyes:

    As to Gerry Adams being an active member of the IRA? Well the first thing that led me to that view was an episode of "The Cook Report" back in the late 80s. In this piece of investigative journalism several former members of the Provisional IRA were interviewed and stated he was an active member. There have been so many similar reports in the 20+ years since then that Gerry Adams refusing to confess his IRA activity has become a bit of a running joke.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    LordSutch wrote: »
    The National pension reserve fund ? ;)

    Well, it made me laugh.
    :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    most of the murders commited in ireland arent commited by the ira so and most go undetected so onee can only guess who these people are or what party they may be affiliated to or support. going by the polls at the minute its fair to say the majority would be f.g supporters
    theres a typical ff/fg comment if ever i heard one. especially fg who woudnt be seen in a local community mixing it with us peasants, too far from their ivory towers.

    oh ye you've just been replying to someone thats neither of the above
    you know this how?was it not bertie who said this,ye id believe anything he said:rolleyes:
    you can believe what you want but the facts are that there is no proof that the ira commited the robbery never mind that gerry adams knew of it in advance. also where is the proof that gerry adams was an active member of the ira. lastly given the choice between the ira allegedly robbing an english bank and the irish goverment including f.g and lab robbing the irish people and giving it to the banks of england france and germany i know which gets my vote

    When SF do not gain many votes or are curious why they are not as popular as they could be, these posts are a big hint. You throw it away yourselves lads, you are the only ones to blame.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Indded, cant believe so many are voting for those fascist Irish killers the blueshirts... two can play at your game ya know, pointless

    What current member of FG is a Blueshirt? They were wound up in the 30's. I know because my grandad used to spent his spare time beating them black and blue.

    We're dealing with the here and now, with the political decisions of living people during their politcal carrear. Please respond in kind.


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