anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

Adrian009 · 21-02-2011 06:14PM

Bollocks! The entire Belfast Agreement was voted upon, it did not require any militant input! The same issues were available back as far as Sunningdale in 1974, and even earlier, but the IRA were not having it.

Wolfe Tone · 21-02-2011 06:15PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

Bollocks! The entire Belfast Agreement was voted upon, it did not require any militant input! The same issues were available back as far as Sunningdale in 1974, and even earlier, but the IRA were not having it.

Sorry, who collapsed sunningdale?

dmaxontour · 21-02-2011 06:16PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

So we're supposed to be GRATEFUL for the provos to eventually coming around to the way of the majority? Gimme a break! SF have stood by all and every action committed by the IRA. Fianna Fail may have created ghost estates, but Sinn Fein supported the creation of ghosts. I don't see how electing the likes of them to the Dail helps Ireland (or Northern Ireland).

I'm not sure if you're responding directly to me or not but nobody is "supposed" to do anything.

I find the type of post here that implies that there was a point where the IRA just suddenly decided to launch a murderous campaign pathetic.

Right or wrong there were many motivating factors which caused people to join the IRA or support them from the sidelines. Likewise the same can be said of Loyalists.

Hannibal · 21-02-2011 06:19PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

Bollocks! The entire Belfast Agreement was voted upon, it did not require any militant input! The same issues were available back as far as Sunningdale in 1974, and even earlier, but the IRA were not having it.

The Sunningdale agreement never had proper support from the the unionists anyway so was always doomed to fail

danbohan · 21-02-2011 06:20PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

Bollocks! The entire Belfast Agreement was voted upon, it did not require any militant input! The same issues were available back as far as Sunningdale in 1974, and even earlier, but the IRA were not having it.

it was the IRA that blocked the roads , closed the stores/ food supply and turned off the power stations in 1974 was it ?

Adrian009 · 21-02-2011 06:22PM

We're not talking about loyalists. What I'm saying is that there is never any excuse for murder, either by loyalists or the IRA. What else was the IRA's campaign but murderous? And what the hell does that say about the integrity of the Sinn Fein candidates who hope to sit in the Dail? If they refuse to condem murders committed by the IRA, what else can we expect from them?

And that STILL does not give me any good reason to vote Sinn Fein! C'mon, I'm actually looking for a reason here.

Hannibal · 21-02-2011 06:22PM

danbohan wrote: »

it was the IRA that blocked the roads , closed the stores/ food supply and turned off the power stations in 1974 was it ?

No that was the Ulster Workers Council, who were a loyalist group supported by the UDA and were against all forms of power sharing agreements

Hannibal · 21-02-2011 06:26PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

We're not talking about loyalists. What I'm saying is that there is never any excuse for murder, either by loyalists or the IRA. What else was the IRA's campaign but murderous? And what the hell does that say about the integrity of the Sinn Fein candidates who hope to sit in the Dail? If they refuse to condem murders committed by the IRA, what else can we expect from them?

And that STILL does not give me any good reason to vote Sinn Fein! C'mon, I'm actually looking for a reason here.

Buy a book on Irish history and maybe you will understand how and why the IRA was formed, and see what was happening to the nationalist communities in Belfast and Derry in the 60's and then you will understand why they stood for themselves rather than be subject to what was borderline ethnic clensing

danbohan · 21-02-2011 06:27PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

We're not talking about loyalists. What I'm saying is that there is never any excuse for murder, either by loyalists or the IRA. What else was the IRA's campaign but murderous? And what the hell does that say about the integrity of the Sinn Fein candidates who hope to sit in the Dail? If they refuse to condem murders committed by the IRA, what else can we expect from them?

And that STILL does not give me any good reason to vote Sinn Fein! C'mon, I'm actually looking for a reason here.

well if you are going to understand the reasons for the existence of the IRA in the first place you cannot remove loyalist tyranny which was at its peak in 1974 , perhaps if you had been born into the deprivation of nationalist areas in northern ireland in 50s and 60s you might not se so idealistic in thinking that war was avoidable and all was needed was some flower power

LordSutch · 21-02-2011 06:28PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The issues would have not been addressed without armed struggle. Sure, it went to far, but the point remains.

"It went too far"^ Understatement of the year me thinks, the are hundreds of people in the ground because "it went too far", reason enough NOT to vote for Sinn Fein, who were/are the political wing, or mouth piece for the PIRA.

Adrian009 · 21-02-2011 06:28PM

I don't need to, I was here. And I still have not heard a good reason to vote Sinn Fein.

KIERAN1 · 21-02-2011 06:29PM

Adrian, like most people in the south, have forgotten, the Catholic community were treated very badly by the majority Protestant community in the north,and was the prime reason for the horrible violence in the 60's...

Adrian009 · 21-02-2011 06:31PM

"perhaps if you had been born into the deprivation of nationalist areas in northern ireland in 50s and 60s you might not se so idealistic in thinking that war was avoidable and all was needed was some flower power"

But not every northern nationalist or northern catholic supported the IRA. Or even Sinn Fein. Why else do you think the SDLP were the main catholic community party for so long?

Adrian009 · 21-02-2011 06:32PM

So you're saying that all the terrible injustice that the community suffered JUSTIFIED all the atrocities the IRA committed?

danbohan · 21-02-2011 06:34PM

LordSutch wrote: »

"It went too far"^ Understatement of the year me thinks, the are hundreds of people in the ground because "it went too far", reason enough not to vote for their political wing/mouth piece!

of course it went too far . some people ,obviously not you of course ,would say that denying nationalists a vote or housing or a job went too far , or that murdering peaceful marchers on the streets of Derry went too far , but then that might be a rational fair and unbiased way of looking at the situation in the north of ireland and we know your not capable of that .

dmaxontour · 21-02-2011 06:37PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

And that STILL does not give me any good reason to vote Sinn Fein! C'mon, I'm actually looking for a reason here.

You're clearly not. You have your own agenda.

The point of mentioning Loyalist is that the PIRA didn't come out of nothing. There was a lot of social context to the period where the IRA numbers grew from nothing in the late 60s early 70's and the whole Troubles era that continued through to the nineties. There are many posts, yours included, which try to make out that that was not the case.

Adrian009 · 21-02-2011 06:37PM

Why would I deny anyone a vote? Its wrong.
Why would I say the murdering of peaceful marchers is right? Its wrong.
What exactly do you want me to say?

Adrian009 · 21-02-2011 06:40PM

Of COURSE I have my own agenda - to use my vote on Friday as best as possible. To that end, I want to be given good reasons to vote Sinn Fein, despite their staunch support for the IRA down the years. So, give me some. Or even just one.

KIERAN1 · 21-02-2011 06:41PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

So you're saying that all the terrible injustice that the community suffered JUSTIFIED all the atrocities the IRA committed?

Adrian, use the quote to be sure who you are talking to with post! No but the fact there was a conflict up in the north, involving two sides, would be an obstacle to blaming the IRA for the violence. Like should we still blame Germany for causing World War 2?

Hannibal · 21-02-2011 06:42PM

danbohan wrote: »

of course it went too far . some people ,obviously not you of course ,would say that denying nationalists a vote or housing or a job went too far , or that murdering peaceful marchers on the streets of Derry went too far , but then that might be a rational fair and unbiased way of looking at the situation in the north of ireland and we know your not capable of that .

The ballymurphy massacre in Belfast warrants a mention aswell

Hannibal · 21-02-2011 06:44PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

Of COURSE I have my own agenda - to use my vote on Friday as best as possible. To that end, I want to be given good reasons to vote Sinn Fein, despite their staunch support for the IRA down the years. So, give me some. Or even just one.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/election-downloads
I'm sure there's reasons contained within there for voting Sinn Fein or not.

PauloMN · 21-02-2011 06:45PM

LordSutch wrote: »

"It went too far"^ Understatement of the year me thinks, the are hundreds of people in the ground because "it went too far", reason enough NOT to vote for Sinn Fein, who were/are the political wing, or mouth piece for the PIRA.

Agree. "It went too far"... incredible how 4 words can simply sweep all the nasty stuff under the carpet.

Taking SF out of the equation, there are plenty of other looney lefties to vote for who don't have a history of violence if you're that way inclined.

Adrian009 · 21-02-2011 06:47PM

Okay, sorry, thought I was using it right.
But anyway, what I want to know is - why should I vote for Sinn Fein despite their past and present support for the IRA's actions, which resulted in the deaths of thousands of Irish people? I DO really want a good answer for this; my vote is not yet cast in stone, I'm open to persuasion.

Zubeneschamali · 21-02-2011 06:48PM

KIERAN1 wrote: »

Like should we still blame Germany for causing World War 2?

No, we wouldn't want to get into the politics of condemnation.

Adrian009 · 21-02-2011 06:48PM

Sure, but this is a forum for the likes of you and me. If you're a SF supporter, I want to hear from you.

dmaxontour · 21-02-2011 06:50PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

Of COURSE I have my own agenda - to use my vote on Friday as best as possible. To that end, I want to be given good reasons to vote Sinn Fein, despite their staunch support for the IRA down the years. So, give me some. Or even just one.

Well, whether you vote Sinn Fein or not really depends on your own political points of view, if you are left or right wing orientated. Do you support the bank bail outs or not. Free education - a good thing? Free health care etc. But beyond Sinn Fein's policies, assuming you support those issues, then do you trust in their ability to deliver on them? Clearly they will not be the next government but they may be a coalition partner. Would you like to see that "leftist" influence in Government?
But Adrian, you are in the best position to decide how Sinn Fein policies reflect your own personal beliefs.
I would urge you, and anyone, to vote on these type of issues and not the emotive sound bites and mud slinging which is unfortunately all too common here.

Hannibal · 21-02-2011 06:50PM

Adrian009 wrote: »

Okay, sorry, thought I was using it right.
But anyway, what I want to know is - why should I vote for Sinn Fein despite their past and present support for the IRA's actions, which resulted in the deaths of thousands of Irish people? I DO really want a good answer for this; my vote is not yet cast in stone, I'm open to persuasion.

Vote for them if you agree with them, everybody has a different political leaning. The IMC stated nearly 5 years ago that the IRA are effectively out of business and have fully decommissioned and theyre on a ceasefire since 1996 anyway.

Wolfe Tone · 21-02-2011 06:52PM

PauloMN wrote: »

Agree. "It went too far"... incredible how 4 words can simply sweep all the nasty stuff under the carpet.

Taking SF out of the equation, there are plenty of other looney lefties to vote for who don't have a history of violence if you're that way inclined.

I said they went to far, they did. Im not sweeping anything, anywhere.

dmaxontour · 21-02-2011 06:53PM

Adrian, if you hit the Quote button on the bottom right, rather than the Reply button, then a quote of the message you are replying to will be embedded in your reply. Hope that helps.

Adrian009 · 21-02-2011 06:58PM

dmaxontour wrote: »

Well, whether you vote Sinn Fein or not really depends on your own political points of view, if you are left or right wing orientated. Do you support the bank bail outs or not. Free education - a good thing? Free health care etc. But beyond Sinn Fein's policies, assuming you support those issues, then do you trust in their ability to deliver on them? Clearly they will not be the next government but they may be a coalition partner. Would you like to see that "leftist" influence in Government?
But Adrian, you are in the best position to decide how Sinn Fein policies reflect your own personal beliefs.
I would urge you, and anyone, to vote on these type of issues and not the emotive sound bites and mud slinging which is unfortunately all too common here.

I would say I'm fairly left-wing, and am trying to seek out the best candidates in that area for my vote. FF were never going to get my vote anyway because I was disgusted with them years ago. And as I said, I have very serious reservations voting for SF because of their support of the IRA. Also, I'm not sure how their preformance in their home ground would translate down here. The likes of Pearse Doherty would have my vote if only he were Labour! Or even Fine Gael!

anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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