Logically Sinn Fein are right

SafeSurfer · 18-02-2011 01:03PM

Sinn Fein policy wants to reduce all public sector salaries to €100,000.
They also say they will not increase taxes for anyone earning less than €100,000.

So their extra tax revenue will come solely from an increase to 48% income tax on those in the private sector earning more than €100,000.

And with this they are going to fund:

* Free universal healthcare

* Restore the minimum wage at €8.65 an hour.

* Remove universal social charge from low-earners.

* Return social welfare payments to 2010 levels.

* Examine mortgage debt forgiveness for those on low and average incomes.

* Create 500 new teaching posts and reduce class sizes to 20.

* Oppose third-level fees.

* Boost Garda numbers.

It is not credible.

jimaneejeebus · 18-02-2011 01:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So you are voting on the imf/eu deal only?

Because it's all that really matters and Sinn Fein are the only ones that will actually talk about it. Ollie Rhen has stated just last week, that our terms will not be open to negotiation. Noonan reckons he'll get the interest rate cute in half! It's the politics of la la land.....granted so are some of the policies of Sinn Fein, but even as a protest vote, I think they deserve a little creedance for advocating what is morally right?

Dubol · 18-02-2011 01:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So you are voting on the imf/eu deal only?
You do realise that Constantin and others do not agree with most of the rest of SF economic policy.In fact they think it's Daft.

Why do you feel happy to take their view on one subject and not the whole thing? Thats selective and in fact not being true with yourself in my opinion.

Theres no doubt that we can't pay the rushed and ill thought out FF deal.
But we have to be realistic and deal with our lenders or else run the country from next year on circa €30 billion.
Implimenting SF policies in full as is,would mean a €20 billion cut in jobs and services in one year when the money ran out.

Is that what you want to vote for?

You vote your way and I'll vote mine. I do not wish to be "influenced" by someone who's agenda is purely political. Implementing any party's policies will cost the voter in taxes and lost jobs. I do not listen to promises and I do not listen to just one side of the argument. Thanks for your concern but my voting intensions are already decided. I have voted in 9 elections and I want a complete change. I have listened to politicians, now I am listening to Unbiased financial experts.

SafeSurfer · 18-02-2011 02:06PM

Dubol wrote: »

You vote your way and I'll vote mine. I do not wish to be "influenced" by someone who's agenda is purely political. Implementing any party's policies will cost the voter in taxes and lost jobs. I do not listen to promises and I do not listen to just one side of the argument. Thanks for your concern but my voting intensions are already decided. I have voted in 9 elections and I want a complete change. I have listened to politicians, now I am listening to Unbiased financial experts.

If you find an unbiased financial expert will you give me their number.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 18-02-2011 02:51PM

joesoap007 wrote: »

whats wrong with you?derivatives market got your tongue
im sure they wont need your vote anyway.thats if your even irish id say your just another paid debunker

personnel insults are not called for,as far as my vote ,i will put too better use by voting for another party that will look after irelands needs but wont be sf as they are no good for ireland

KELTICKNIGHTT · 18-02-2011 02:55PM

MidgetWrestler wrote: »

Half way decided.. I have an idea in my head of who I want in power but there's no one there. On the radio this morning the Trade Union lad is threatening FG, and want's Kenny to explain what he meant by the unions' vested interests contributing to the mess... If he folds under pressure and bows to the TU people, FG will have lost my vote.
I couldn't give a rats arse about the name of the party, I care about having a strong, honest, intelligent representative, with integrity and values, who puts the people first. As far as I can see, they're all more interested in power grabbing, and lining their own pockets, and no one does that better than FF.
Labour sitting on the fence, FG maybe, but i don't see any strength in them, FF no, never, SF unlikely, Greens, no - they slept with the devil and will go the way of the PDs, none of the independents or united left right middle will get a vote. I understand that strength is in numbers, so they need to be a party to get anything done.
Looking at FFs new leader, Martin, I'd vote for him, but (like someone on the telly said) it's like his girlfriend caught him cheating, and he's really sorry, and he says he'l never do it again.. and he'll be good for now, till after the election, but if they get in, i'd expect they go back to the old ways of lining their pockets, running us into the ground, looking after union top brass to keep the sheep in line, vintners and all their other buddies.
Will vote FG if they show some bottle

its hard too know really who too vote for,looks like more showbiz with all the party s at moment,i guess you have too look locally and as a whole in ireland who you believe in and has policy's in place that have real working policy's in place where the numbers add up,for me so far its no too sinn fein and socialist party ,list will be getting shorter as time grows near

jimaneejeebus · 18-02-2011 02:58PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you find an unbiased financial expert will you give me their number.

You do realise that it's election time and -as such- politicians have even more tendency to fabricate, omit, distort or plainly make stuff up?

I'd believe Constantine over any of them.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 18-02-2011 02:59PM

joesoap007 wrote: »

oh dear look at all the pro FFpeople debunking on another sinn fein thread. keep up your good work sheeple.your selling your children and grand children to the imf, oh thanks for voting yes to lisbon aswell your just a great bunch,whats next making farmers buy death seeds from monsanto like the imf done africa forced vacations abortions all imf policy.what happens to the interest on the bail out WHEN inflation rises? 5 years 10 years extra to pay it back,inflation in the uk is rising 4% a month for the last 4 or 5 months and thats their own cooked numbers.the fed and the euorpen bank are flooding the world with money they have made out tinn air that will start hyper inflation why are they doing this?and the derivatives market that irish and euro banks lost all there money in thats a scam if i ever did see one.why would you buy a bunch of dodgy mortgage and car lones from the US?AND WHY DO ME AND MY FAMLIY HAVE TO PAY IT BACK WHEN IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH US ,IT WAS THE BANKS CALL IT WAS F.F CALL THERE OWED BY THE BANKS jail them seize there assets dont rob your own people ,vote sinn fein and lets stop these fools in FF FG AND LAB from killing whats left of this great counrty rich in farming gold dimonds oil gas wind power fishing grounds that our own fleet can even fish cuz FF sold out again to europe.lets lead the way by telling the uaas fed and imf to fcuk off others will follow.,,,,sinn fein all the way

funny thing doe,when election is over all these sf people will disappear for boards ,sf will never be taken serious in this country because of there past and more importantly the present,as its same old republician bull and there policys dotn work,dont add up as everyone knows and have pointed out there and all over the media,when sf talk about there policys,other laugh

tcd · 18-02-2011 09:14PM

Sinn Fein do not have a clue on economic policies or how to implement them. Their ideas are ridiculous and they are focusing on the lower income areas for support and promising this that and the other. We all know cuts are in order for this country to get back on track. If we so f**k the bondholders and their investments as some are saying, sure we can get money from them again but at around 50% interest rates which we could not possibly afford. So for all you Sinn Feinners saying F**k the IMF you are fools. The IMF are offering interest rates which were better than the bondholders were offering just before the bail out, so come back Sinn Fein when you's know what's going on.
But i suppose they could get the money from other sources, i.e. rob a bank hmmm

18-02-2011 09:29PM

Dubol wrote: »

I have voted in 9 elections and I want a complete change. I have listened to politicians, now I am listening to Unbiased financial experts.

The same ones that are saying Sinn Féin policies are daft.
It's obvious you're not listening to them at all and swallowing the SF nonsense hook line and sinker.
Good luck with that.

jimaneejeebus wrote:

Ollie Rhen has stated just last week, that our terms will not be open to negotiation.

He's a civil servant.
The decisions are not made by him,they are made by the politicians.

I'd believe Constantine over any of them.

So would I and his dreamteam lol to negotiate is Noonan and Doherty,the latter for his stubborness and the former for his command of figures.
You won't find Constantin praising SF's plans to reverse the cuts and spend spend spend what we haven't got though.

Sf keep trotting him out, name dropping him and others who want bondholders burnt as much as possible and pretending that they agree with the rest of SF policy aswell.
They don't because they know money markets won't lend if we don't cut.

And you know what ? SF don't care for 2 reasons, they have a target minority audience who don't realise this and secondly they know they'll not be in a position to implement their road to empty coffers policy.

K-9 · 19-02-2011 12:58AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The same ones that are saying Sinn Féin policies are daft.
It's obvious you're not listening to them at all and swallowing the SF nonsense hook line and sinker.
Good luck with that.
He's a civil servant.
The decisions are not made by him,they are made by the politicians.So would I and his dreamteam lol to negotiate is Noonan and Doherty,the latter for his stubborness and the former for his command of figures.
You won't find Constantin praising SF's plans to reverse the cuts and spend spend spend what we haven't got though.

Sf keep trotting him out, name dropping him and others who want bondholders burnt as much as possible and pretending that they agree with the rest of SF policy aswell.
They don't because they know money markets won't lend if we don't cut.

And you know what ? SF don't care for 2 reasons, they have a target minority audience who don't realise this and secondly they know they'll not be in a position to implement their road to empty coffers policy.

Anybody saying the SF approach is backed by the main economists is only looking at one side of the equation.

andyterryjay · 19-02-2011 01:02AM

Logic is the antithesis of Sinn Fein. The two words do not compute.

jimaneejeebus · 19-02-2011 04:08AM

tcd wrote: »

Sinn Fein do not have a clue on economic policies or how to implement them.

So who does have a clue? Tell me why?

tcd wrote: »

Their ideas are ridiculous and they are focusing on the lower income areas for support and promising this that and the other.

Because the poor are stupid??? yeah yeah elitist bull****.
I'll tell you what's really stupid. Paying investors who would NOT HAVE PAID US had they made a profit???

tcd wrote: »

If we so f**k the bondholders and their investments as some are saying, sure we can get money from them again but at around 50% interest rates which we could not possibly afford.

What country has ever paid 50% interest on a bond ever.......? Please cite.

tcd wrote: »

So for all you Sinn Feinners saying F**k the IMF you are fools.
You're retarded

I'd say you should look up the word in a dictionary and reflect.

jimaneejeebus · 19-02-2011 04:19AM

Deleted User wrote: »

You won't find Constantin praising SF's plans to reverse the cuts and spend spend spend what we haven't got though.

Nor will you find him praising FG FF Labour.

meglome · 19-02-2011 05:49AM

Why oh why are we still talking about this topic. Not one credible economist is supporting the SF strategy. We're in the shít, there's no doubt about that and whoever gets in is going to have to make some very hard decisions. But these fairy stories from SF are starting to get on my nerves. And I have given SF preferences in the past.

Nehaxak · 19-02-2011 06:18AM

meglome wrote: »

Why oh why are we still talking about this topic. Not one credible economist is supporting the SF strategy. We're in the shít, there's no doubt about that and whoever gets in is going to have to make some very hard decisions. But these fairy stories from SF are starting to get on my nerves. And I have given SF preferences in the past.

Welcome to democracy and freedom of speech (albeit on a private forum not bound by same, but anyway...).

SF are the only party putting an alternative out there, the only party doing this.

I also quite like the idea of telling the bond holders to f' off as I'm sure do many others in Ireland. I'm just glad we're not all sheeple willing to follow the same FF line put forward by FG and Labour, who are, in all but name, exactly the same as FF, they will do NOTHING different to FF economically and nothing will change other than the less well off in our society suffering more under their policies under the probable headline of "we all must suffer" which should really be rewrote as "YOU all must suffer, so our bondholders, wealthy elite and golden circle of friendly corporate party donors won't have too".

SF aren't ideal but I'd rather take my chances with them than Labour, FG or FF who will NOT nor EVER put the people first in their policies or decision making - same old party politic protectionism crap.

Paulh3283 · 19-02-2011 06:22AM

We are going to default at some point in time, maybe 6months maybe 18months and it will be a whole lot of pain when we do. I think the idea of defaulting now and getting on with it could be the right move.

However, lets face it, FG look set to win this election and they tow the same line as any other of our useless politicians who got us into this mess in the first place. They all love the bankers and are all too willing to take our hard earned cash and hand it over (To keep the banks lending!!!), while the banks carry on shafting us by increasing mortgage rates, fees and generally not lending any money even to viable businesses. As a result the country comes to a grinding halt, as no one is spending, because the banks are not lending.

I no longer support any particular political party as I can't stand listening to all the bare faced lies that are told on a daily basis, signing up to the EU was the start of it, then the Euro (a No Vote initially) sorry lads you got that wrong try again i think you wanted to vote Yes didn't you (That's more like it!!!!!). Lisbon, surprise surprise 2 votes, could have possibly been 3 or 4 until the EU got their way. Most people say at least we had a vote many other countries didn't, I say we wasted a huge amount of money voting in the first place the eventual outcome was obvious.

No matter who we vote for the EU are running this country now and you can be sure nothing will be done to put us back on the road to recovery any time soon. Hard decisions need to be taken regarding our public sector which for far too long has been costing us far too much, however no one is prepared to make the necessary cuts that any privately run company would have done 2-3 year ago to make the books balance. You can be sur that wont happen now we have a huge loan form the EU we cant afford lets just carry on as before until the money runs out again!!!!!!!

Dubol · 19-02-2011 01:54PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

for such a small insignificant and extreme party how the hell do sinn fein get so many threads on boards??

Because FG/ FF/ GP need to answer questions - thestory.ie Freedom of Information Act.

thestory.ie page 107 ENDA KENNY's expenses claim, page 95 BRIAN HAYES expenses claim.

jimaneejeebus · 19-02-2011 03:17PM

meglome wrote: »

And I have given SF preferences in the past.

I think they deserve at least a protest vote.

ricero · 19-02-2011 03:35PM

i agree with most of sf polices and they are very much about helping out the blue collar man. but they just have to much of a bad rep over you know who and i think they will need drastic changes to combat this. also im not happy with there plans for the economy so i think i will not vote this year for them.

meglome · 19-02-2011 05:24PM

Nehaxak wrote: »

I also quite like the idea of telling the bond holders to f' off as I'm sure do many others in Ireland. I'm just glad we're not all sheeple willing to follow the same FF line put forward by FG and Labour, who are, in all but name, exactly the same as FF, they will do NOTHING different to FF economically and nothing will change other than the less well off in our society suffering more under their policies under the probable headline of "we all must suffer" which should really be rewrote as "YOU all must suffer, so our bondholders, wealthy elite and golden circle of friendly corporate party donors won't have too".

We all like the idea of telling the bondholders to feck off. Actually doing it will be a lot more difficult though.

Sorry but I don't buy your line about sheeple or that FG are the same as FF. Their manifestos are quite different to FF. SF are telling people what they want to hear and after what we're going through have we not learned anything about that. Default is a real possibility but the rosy consequence free approach that SF are trumpeting is just crap. I think there is little doubt that should we do what SF say the very people they claim to support will be absolutely hammered.

Nehaxak wrote: »

SF aren't ideal but I'd rather take my chances with them than Labour, FG or FF who will NOT nor EVER put the people first in their policies or decision making - same old party politic protectionism crap.

SF say they are putting people first but their far left policies would have the opposite effect. A lot of people here seem to be anti business but let's not forget who creates the jobs.

meglome · 19-02-2011 05:37PM

Paulh3283 wrote: »

We are going to default at some point in time, maybe 6months maybe 18months and it will be a whole lot of pain when we do. I think the idea of defaulting now and getting on with it could be the right move.

It's a real possibility all right. Defaulting now will totally screw the poor and unemployed, which is supposedly the opposite of what SF want.

Paulh3283 wrote: »

However, lets face it, FG look set to win this election and they tow the same line as any other of our useless politicians who got us into this mess in the first place. They all love the bankers and are all too willing to take our hard earned cash and hand it over (To keep the banks lending!!!), while the banks carry on shafting us by increasing mortgage rates, fees and generally not lending any money even to viable businesses. As a result the country comes to a grinding halt, as no one is spending, because the banks are not lending.

They don't love bankers, but equally they are not anti-business which SF appear to be. The banks are now charging people the way they should have been all along rather than depending on a property bubble.

Paulh3283 wrote: »

I no longer support any particular political party as I can't stand listening to all the bare faced lies that are told on a daily basis, signing up to the EU was the start of it, then the Euro (a No Vote initially) sorry lads you got that wrong try again i think you wanted to vote Yes didn't you (That's more like it!!!!!). Lisbon, surprise surprise 2 votes, could have possibly been 3 or 4 until the EU got their way. Most people say at least we had a vote many other countries didn't, I say we wasted a huge amount of money voting in the first place the eventual outcome was obvious.

You can't stand the bare faced lies but are supporting the party telling the biggest ones, not very sensible I would have thought. And shock horror someone supporting SF who doesn't like the EU. I hate to think what this country would be like without the EU, the fact we pissed it against the wall isn't their fault it's ours.

Paulh3283 wrote: »

No matter who we vote for the EU are running this country now and you can be sure nothing will be done to put us back on the road to recovery any time soon. Hard decisions need to be taken regarding our public sector which for far too long has been costing us far too much, however no one is prepared to make the necessary cuts that any privately run company would have done 2-3 year ago to make the books balance. You can be sur that wont happen now we have a huge loan form the EU we cant afford lets just carry on as before until the money runs out again!!!!!!!

Yes because the EU are such Nazi's, always looking for people to do the right thing, those total bástards. I'm confused by you though, you support SF defaulting but don't want us to borrow money. How exactly are we paying for the public services and the unemployed without borrowing? And who exactly is going to give us money?

Paulh3283 · 19-02-2011 08:07PM

It's not a case of wanting to default on the debt, we will have no choice but to default in the not too distant future as we will not have the resources to cover the loan we are being given. Maybe it is better to take the pain of the default now, as it is going to happen anyway, why prolong the pain.

Lets be clear about this I am not supporting SF, as I don't believe they have the ability to get us out of this mess. The banks are screwing us to make up for all the risky lending (Gambling) of previous years even though we as the tax payer have saved their skins. Take a look at the UK you don't see their banks increasing every mortgage rate they can even though the ECB rate has not changed. I think their banks have a bit more respect for the tax payer that saved them.

With regard to the EU, I prefer democracy when I vote no I like my vote to be respected. Many many countries did not have the chance to vote on lisbon, mainly because the EU expected a No vote. Then there is the Euro again a no Vote ignored. If i wanted to be treated like this I would have moved to China!!!

Default we will, it is just a matter of when, take a look at Iceland and many other countries who have defaulted on their debt, none of them have been wiped out as all the scare mongers would have you believe, sure it will be very pain full but why struggle on for 18 months and then take another hit when we do default.

Nobody has a magic wand to get us out of this mess FF have got us in too, but don't believe the EU has Ireland's interests at heart (Take a look at the rate they are charging us for the loan compared to Greece and this will not be re-negotiated as they are all having you believe) they only want to save Europe and the Euro from being wiped out, which may well happen if Spain go the way we all think they are. We are a small country in a very large pond and now by accepting the bail out we may as well raise the German flag as they are calling the shots as far as the EU is concerned.

jimaneejeebus · 20-02-2011 03:52PM

Paulh3283 wrote: »

Default we will, it is just a matter of when, take a look at Iceland and many other countries who have defaulted on their debt, none of them have been wiped out as all the scare mongers would have you believe,

+1

jimaneejeebus · 20-02-2011 06:01PM

meglome wrote: »

How exactly are we paying for the public services and the unemployed without borrowing? And who exactly is going to give us money?

I think this goes along way to answering that
http://thepeopleseconomy.com/roadmap-to-recovery/

jimaneejeebus · 25-02-2011 02:31AM

Whatever way we vote, we're all screwed.

meglome · 25-02-2011 02:45AM

jimaneejeebus wrote: »

I think this goes along way to answering that
http://thepeopleseconomy.com/roadmap-to-recovery/

As I said I think some sort of default is on the cards. If we default we might eventually be able to borrow again. However in the meantime we'll have to cut 15-20 billion from spending. That will totally screw the unemployed and the poor and state workers. So SF can say they will protect the poor but their policies would have the opposite effect.

jimmycrackcorm · 25-02-2011 02:52AM

Paulh3283 wrote: »

Default we will, it is just a matter of when, take a look at Iceland and many other countries who have defaulted on their debt, none of them have been wiped out as all the scare mongers would have you believe, sure it will be very pain full but why struggle on for 18 months and then take another hit when we do default.

Have you actually looked at Iceland?
Iceland voting on deal

Iceland are negotiating their payments interest rates.

namloc1980 · 25-02-2011 03:01AM

Paulh3283 wrote: »

It's not a case of wanting to default on the debt, we will have no choice but to default in the not too distant future as we will not have the resources to cover the loan we are being given. Maybe it is better to take the pain of the default now, as it is going to happen anyway, why prolong the pain.

Lets be clear about this I am not supporting SF, as I don't believe they have the ability to get us out of this mess. The banks are screwing us to make up for all the risky lending (Gambling) of previous years even though we as the tax payer have saved their skins. Take a look at the UK you don't see their banks increasing every mortgage rate they can even though the ECB rate has not changed. I think their banks have a bit more respect for the tax payer that saved them.

With regard to the EU, I prefer democracy when I vote no I like my vote to be respected. Many many countries did not have the chance to vote on lisbon, mainly because the EU expected a No vote. Then there is the Euro again a no Vote ignored. If i wanted to be treated like this I would have moved to China!!!

Default we will, it is just a matter of when, take a look at Iceland and many other countries who have defaulted on their debt, none of them have been wiped out as all the scare mongers would have you believe, sure it will be very pain full but why struggle on for 18 months and then take another hit when we do default.

Nobody has a magic wand to get us out of this mess FF have got us in too, but don't believe the EU has Ireland's interests at heart (Take a look at the rate they are charging us for the loan compared to Greece and this will not be re-negotiated as they are all having you believe) they only want to save Europe and the Euro from being wiped out, which may well happen if Spain go the way we all think they are. We are a small country in a very large pond and now by accepting the bail out we may as well raise the German flag as they are calling the shots as far as the EU is concerned.

Can we put to bed the notion that everything is grand in Iceland. They are out of the markets, they have the IMF in the country and they will have to pay back their banking debts to Holland and Britain.

K-9 · 25-02-2011 03:08AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Can we put to bed the notion that everything is grand in Iceland. They are out of the markets, they have the IMF in the country and they will have to pay back their banking debts to Holland and Britain.

The ordinary person has been hit by devaluation, tax rises and pay cuts, not that different from here. There is a proposed bail out for reckless borrowers. Plenty of protests.

It's out of recession, like we are. Doesn't mean much to the ordinary person.

Logically Sinn Fein are right

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