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Woman found guilty of rape in hotel toilet

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    #272
    Jimmy the Wheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭Jimmy the Wheel


    hoorsmelt wrote: »
    Afaik, there's no obligation on the victim to disclose their lack of consent to the attacker in a common law system. I know that here a woman can consent to sex but if she changes her mind during the act it becomes an act of rape.

    That's bizarre.


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    #273
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Ok just from the way he said it sounded as if they could withdraw consent post act and then it would be considered rape


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    #274
    Jimmy the Wheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭Jimmy the Wheel


    prinz wrote: »
    If your partner wants to stop you stop. Anything forced onto them after that is rape/sexual assault.

    There is no cut off point where anything said after that doesn't count.

    I kind of understood that at the point he/she changes her mind it's now a rape, even before he/she even informs you.

    It seems a little odd.


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    #275
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Thats a fairly soft sentence. Parole after one year?


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    #276
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Ok just from the way he said it sounded as if they could withdraw consent post act and then it would be considered rape
    Jimmy the Wheel wrote: »
    I kind of understood that at the point he/she changes her mind it's now a rape, even before he/she even informs you. It seems a little odd.

    No. Anything up to that point was consensual. It only becomes dodgy if you keep going after they had withdrawn consent.


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    #277
    Jimmy the Wheel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭Jimmy the Wheel


    prinz wrote: »
    No. Anything up to that point was consensual. It only becomes dodgy if you keep going after they had withdrawn consent.

    K.

    I misunderstood the original point.


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    #278
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    Very soft sentence.


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    #279
    Blowfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    prinz wrote: »
    No. Anything up to that point was consensual. It only becomes dodgy if you keep going after they had withdrawn consent.
    Which is absolutely fine, but his original statement said this:
    Afaik, there's no obligation on the victim to disclose their lack of consent to the attacker in a common law system.
    To point out the obvious, if you withdraw consent, you really need to let the other person know that it's withdrawn...


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    #280
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Blowfish wrote: »
    To point out the obvious, if you withdraw consent, you really need to let the other person know that it's withdrawn...

    That part of the post doesn't make much sense. It's not a matter of saying 'in common law you don't need to disclose lack of consent'... far more of a grey area.


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    #281
    stupidusername
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,762 ✭✭✭✭stupidusername


    Blowfish wrote: »
    Which is absolutely fine, but his original statement said this:To point out the obvious, if you withdraw consent, you really need to let the other person know that it's withdrawn...

    WITHDRAW


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    #282
    hightower1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,210 ✭✭✭hightower1


    lolz - digital rape - sounds like a George Micheal song title!


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    #283
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Have to be honest here (and this is coming from someone with a fairly perverted sense of humor) I fail to see how someone getting raped, in a toilet or otherwise, is a laughing matter :confused:


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    #284
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    prinz wrote: »
    If your partner wants to stop you stop. Anything forced onto them after that is rape/sexual assault.

    There is no cut off point where anything said after that doesn't count.

    There is actually, after the event is over.
    How many times have you heard of cases where it was all fine at the time, but information / further recollection in the following days leads to "em actually I've changed my mind, it was rape"?

    Julian Assange springs irresistibly to mind. Apparently she didn't mind the 'wake up sex' at all (and stayed with him for several days afterwards) until she discovered that he had slept with someone else the same week. Then all of a sudden it became an assault.


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    #285
    hightower1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,210 ✭✭✭hightower1


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Have to be honest here (and this is coming from someone with a fairly perverted sense of humor) I fail to see how someone getting raped, in a toilet or otherwise, is a laughing matter :confused:


    Followed a girl home the other night, during the "act" as it were she managed to garble out..."oh wont you please think of my childen" .....

    I replied...."kinky b**ch"



    See, it CAN be funny!


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    #286
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    stupidusername wrote: »
    WITHDRAW




    WITHDRAW!!!!!!!!


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    #287
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    hightower1 wrote: »
    Followed a girl home the other night, during the "act" as it were she managed to garble out..."oh wont you please think of my childen" .....

    I replied...."kinky b**ch"



    See, it CAN be funny!

    That's funny?


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    #288
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    There is actually, after the event is over..

    Capt. Obvious has earned his stripes today. We were discussing, withdrawing consent during the event.
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Julian Assange springs irresistibly to mind. Apparently she didn't mind the 'wake up sex' at all (and stayed with him for several days afterwards) until she discovered that he had slept with someone else the same week. Then all of a sudden it became an assault.

    More than one woman has made a complaint against Assange.


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    #289
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Two, in fact, who made complaints only when they found out about each other but that's for another discussion.


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    #290
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Two, in fact, who made complaints only when they found out about each other but that's for another discussion.

    A very frequent sequence of events. Many people subjected to sexual assaults/abuse come forward only they realise the same has been done by the perpetrator to someone else.


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    #291
    hightower1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,210 ✭✭✭hightower1


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    That's funny?


    Humour is subjective, what you find funny ; others may not and vice versa.


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    #292
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Have to be honest here (and this is coming from someone with a fairly perverted sense of humor) I fail to see how someone getting raped, in a toilet or otherwise, is a laughing matter :confused:
    A serial killer/rapist and a woman are walking through the woods late at night. The woman says to the rapist, "I'm really scared." The rapist replies, "You're scared, I have to walk home alone!"

    I've got more, if that wasn't a sufficient demonstration of how it can be funny. :)


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    #293
    bipedalhumanoid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭bipedalhumanoid


    Anyone else notice the incredible irony in this thread WRT accusations of bigotry?

    Generalisations and anecdotal evidence are the tools of the ignoramus.


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    #294
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,788 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Just to update also, She is currently out on bail, so some people in here might have to eat their words with regard to their faith in the judicial system.


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    #295
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,157 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Quazzie wrote: »
    Just to update also, She is currently out on bail, so some people in here might have to eat their words with regard to their faith in the judicial system.
    Do you mean parole? I'm pretty sure you're not eligible for bail after you've already been found guilty and sentenced

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    #296
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    28064212 wrote: »
    Do you mean parole? I'm pretty sure you're not eligible for bail after you've already been found guilty and sentenced

    She got a retrial so gets bail:

    Anne-Marie O'Loughlin set free after winning new trial on appeal over hotel toilet rape case | News.com.au

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #297
    Occam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Occam


    I've got to say this has been the most disturbing threads I have ever read on boards. The level of detail carried by the media has been low, certainly too low to make an kind of responsible or educated judgment on whether a horrific crime was perpetrated against someone. However many posters seem to jump to the conclusion that the alleged victim is lying - Despite not having made any real effort to read up on the case.

    Its a poor reflection on posters when they publicly contradict a potential rape victim, especially when they know so little about the incident.

    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    This is the basic problem in most rape accusations - it boils down to one person's word vs another's. The most persuasive legal team wins.

    In this case there were a number of other witnesses. Specifically a Ms Paton, who was in an adjoining cubicle at the time of the alleged assault. She reports hearing a "quite distressed" female asking for anyone that could hear to get security.
    wexford96c wrote: »
    Quazzie - you are 100% correct. Hubby asked her why she was in there for so long - she had to chose between severe constapation and sexual assault - she chose the latter. She lied.

    She was only in the cubicle for 10 minutes, according to evidence from the cctv system. If she wished she could easily have said there was a queue, would have been a much simpler excuse.
    Quazzie wrote: »
    In this case I think what happened was consensual but after the event one person changed their story when questioned about it by their partner.

    Both the convicting court and the court of appeal have held that a non consensual act occurred and that the conviction was safe on the grounds of evidence presented.

    I'm sure however now that they know what you have decided, in your ignorance of the evidence, they will reconsider :rolleyes:
    senordingdong wrote: »
    Because she failed to object or kick up any kind of a fuss untill after the incident.

    This is contradicted by both the evidence of the bouncer and the lady in the next cubicle, who reported an "hysterical" person shouting for help help. Ms Paton also claims to have offered words of comfort to alleged victim, claiming she looked to be in a distressed state.
    wexford96c wrote: »
    the one who was trying to pretend to a controlling husband that she didn't like it - is the one with by far the least credibility. Only the easily swayed, like some on this message board, fell for the scam.

    You really need to think about what you are doing here. Its pretty low coming onto a public forum and attacking a potential rape victims credibility. Even if you accept the alleged victim is not credible, will you also attack the character of Ms Paton?

    Why not attack the alleged rapist? Her denial in police interview that she touched the complainant below the chest was contradicted by DNA evidence.
    sesna wrote: »
    I wonder if there was any physical evidence of lacerations around the anogenital area as result.

    Medical examination showed a large red blue bruise on her buttock, an abrasion on the buttock causing a skin flap, superficial abrasion on the other buttock , bruising of the left thigh, a red welt on the left thigh, an abrasion behind her anus, and an abrasion at the entrance to the vagina.

    Anyway .... guess what I'm trying to say is that this is a sensitive case, and those jumping to conclusions and publicly attacking a possible rape victim on spurious grounds should be ashamed.


  • Options
    #298
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,788 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Occam wrote: »

    Both the convicting court and the court of appeal have held that a non consensual act occurred and that the conviction was safe on the grounds of evidence presented.

    I'm sure however now that they know what you have decided, in your ignorance of the evidence, they will reconsider :rolleyes:


    And yet you in your ignorance have judged me whilst knowing sweet fúck all about me. I know the accused personally, I have talked to people who were present on the night in question, and some who were in contact with the accused shortly after the incident so I am very confident that I know more about the case than you so please keep your smart alec remarks to yourself, especially when quoting me.


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    #299
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    lovin this..Dublin-born Anne-Marie O'Loughlin (25) was convicted of two counts of digital rape and one of the deprivation of liberty of a woman at Caxton Hotel in Brisbane last year. In a police interview played to the jury, O'Loughlin said she had no memory of kissing the woman but admitted it was possible. She claimed it was not in her nature to force someone to have sex.


    the last line is particularily funny.

    Proper kinky bitch.

    I tell thee


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    #300
    booboo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭booboo88


    hold on, the cubicles are seperate are they not?
    how did she get in their had she not let oloughlin in?


    This is baffling.......


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    #301
    Occam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Occam


    Quazzie wrote: »
    And yet you in your ignorance have judged me whilst knowing sweet fúck all about me. I know the accused personally, I have talked to people who were present on the night in question, and some who were in contact with the accused shortly after the incident so I am very confident that I know more about the case than you so please keep your smart alec remarks to yourself, especially when quoting me.

    Perhaps a kind reading of what you are posting here would say that you are allowing your relationship with the defendent to cloud your judgement.

    However if you really do know the facts of the case well, you are totally misrepresenting the facts deliberately. Considering the alleged crime, it was a shameful act to leave out the following *facts* when you put forward your cock and bull story about the alleged victim only changing her mind after the event, and "being up for it":

    - DNA evidence contradicting the defendents original statement
    - Fresh Bruising on the alleged victims genitals, buttocks and chest
    - An independent witness reporting that she heard calls for help from the cubicle where the alleged rape occured.
    - An independent witenss investigating reported calls for help from the cubicle

    It is these key points which make your repeated assertions that this is one persons word against another totally untrue.

    While it is not our place to determine the guilt or innocence of anyone, its also not our place to undermine the claims of potential rape victim by omitting key details of an incident, and pushing a version of the story which is clearly incompatable with the 3rd party witness testimony at the trial.


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