anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

Euroland · 16-02-2011 04:26PM

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

we pay the money because a goverment borrowed it,sf policys dont work ,most people can see that,in 2008 might have made a little difference but not now,sf dont answer where we can get 16 billion for frontline services,then we need 50 billion,ireland in tax take wouldnt cover frontline ,not even a third,even if money wasnt put into anglo bank,we still have problems as other banks and property boys messed up ,if ireland has too export and import,we have no option but too deal with worlds markets,other wise ireland will never grow,ireland always had debts too europe ,we just own a hell a lot more now

1) The only policy, which doesn’t work is the policy of supporting this “bailout”.

2) Please don’t mix the EU and the Euro zone/ECB up, they are separate.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 16-02-2011 04:28PM

Euroland wrote: »

First of all, this amount includes not only Irish domestic banks but also the foreign banks, operating in Ireland (re-read the article)

Second, this is what we are actually trying to achieve: bankrupt all problem Irish banks, so there would be no further need to borrow. And we don’t need to re-capitalize them.

Third, for covering our budget deficit gap we can borrow elsewhere, either from IMF or China/Russia/etc

what foreign banks
you wont get money from eu or imf if you do it sf way,no market in there right mind will lend,we all ready have funded the banks so abit late now,they already shutting down anglo and nationwide and transfering assets too other state owned banks

KELTICKNIGHTT · 16-02-2011 04:32PM

Euroland wrote: »

1) The only policy, which doesn’t work is the policy of supporting this “bailout”.

2) Please don’t mix the EU and the Euro zone/ECB up, they are separate.

we already have our deal with imf/eu,maybe we get a interest break ,weight too be seen ,there a german now in charge of central bank appointed too day,weather thats god or bad for ireland ,wait and see there
bank issues is only one problem we have,
16 billion too run services,
the problem here is sf policys dont work,the numbers dont add up,outside of partys,this has been said,when pushed how they going too fund outside of pension fund which remember has only 4.6 billion in it and you can use that as its need for pensions,the sf still dont say where they alone get the 16 billion too run services and the 50 billion,sf can tell imf/eu too get lost and then expect them too help them later,on in real world,markets wont help outside the fact the interest is almost 9.7% which is way ireland went too imf/eu deal,only hope if they burn private bondholders and maybe get a deal with imf/eu,that still leaves 16 billion plus
this is the reasons majority people wont vote sf,too many holes in there policys,no figures that address the problems,just words

JP Liz V1 · 16-02-2011 04:34PM

1. Sinn Féin has shown that there is a better way. We were the only party not to sign up to the government’s consensus for cuts and instead put forward a real costed alternative for economic recovery.
2. Sinn Féin would reverse cuts to public services and social welfare introduced in Budget 2011. We are the only party to clearly state that we would do this.
3. Unlike the other parties Sinn Féin would stand up to the IMF and EU. Sinn Féin is an Irish republican party. We are a United Ireland party. We believe in the sovereignty, independence and freedom of the Irish people and the right of our people to build our own society.
4. Every TD elected for Sinn Féin will mean a stronger voice for working families, the unemployed and all those struggling to survive. The more Sinn Féin TDs elected the louder the voice for those they represent in the Dáil.
5. Sinn Féin stands up for ordinary people. Over the last year it is our party, which confronted this government and demanded higher standards. For us, actions speak louder than words. Sinn Féin was the only party to oppose the Lisbon Treaty, pointing out the dangers for our sovereignty. Sinn Féin forced the government to hold the Donegal SW by-election, exposed the Taoiseach’s contacts with leading people in Anglo, is the only party not to sign up to the Fianna Fáil / Green Party / Fine Gael / Labour consensus for cuts and instead put forward a real alternative for economic recovery. Sinn Féin TDs only take home the average industrial wage.
6. Sinn Féin will change politics and put an end to cronyism. Reform must start with the Dáil. That means cutting TD’s wages and expenses. It means changing how the Dáil business is done so the Government can be held to account. We would abolish the Seanad in its current form

Sinn Féin Vice President and General Election candidate for the Dublin Central constituency Mary Lou McDonald has today launched the party’s ten-point plan for job creation.
Speaking at Leinster House Mary Lou said that the absolute priority for any incoming government must be to implement a comprehensive job creation and retention plan which works and which will get people back to work or into training.
Mary Lou said:
“The country is in crisis. Unemployment has reached record highs with 100,000 people set to emigrate over the next two years. These people want to work. They are enthusiastic, experienced and are ready and willing to work towards getting the country and the economy back on its feet.
“Families across the country are seriously struggling to make ends meet and to cope with job losses.
“Without a serious plan for job creation we are in danger of losing hundreds of thousands of people who will have little option but to leave these shores in search of work. They have been failed by the previous government. They must not be failed by the next.
“The absolute priority for any incoming government must be to implement a comprehensive job creation and retention plan which works and which will get people back to work or into training.
“Sinn Féin is making job creation a priority. Last year we published our documents ‘Getting Ireland Back to Work’’ and ‘No Job? No Future? No Way!’ the latter of which focussed particularly on job creation for young people under 25. The proposals contained in the documents are fully costed, credible and if implemented have the potential to create 160,000 jobs and many more training places.
“The ten-point plan which we are launching today lays out clearly how our policies and our proposals would make huge inroads into addressing the current unemployment crisis.
“We are the only party proposing to invest in a jobs stimulus fund. While other parties argue over cuts we know that we cannot cut our way out of recession. The relationship between jobs and the deficit is a clear one – more people in work produce higher levels of spending activity and tax revenues, as well as lower bill for welfare payments.
“Our stimulus is about providing immediate and direct employment in key sectors such as infrastructure in the immediate term. But in the longer term the impact of our stimulus plans would see the state’s competitiveness increase as we become a world leader in green energy, IT and research and development, in addition to having world class infrastructure to attract Foreign Direct Investment and support indigenous enterprise for longer term employment creation.
“We have clearly shown that there is a way to create jobs. There is a way to get Ireland back to work. The employment crisis can be addressed if the political will is there. The people have a right to work, a right to earn a living and a right to provide for their families. In government Sinn Féin would make job creation our number one priority.”

Some information on their policies

Anyways I will probably give them a vote tbh I'm still abit undecided - no one really stands out for me

bastados · 16-02-2011 04:35PM

Nope they are not a real party IMO

KELTICKNIGHTT · 16-02-2011 04:42PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Some information on their policies

Anyways I will probably give them a vote tbh I'm still abit undecided - no one really stands out for me

wheres the figures and info how they going too make it happen,just words on paper,proof,like 15 billion and 50 billion ???

KIERAN1 · 16-02-2011 04:51PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

No, we got the bailout money through the IMF and the European Financial Stability Facility. This is the money our government is getting, some of which is going towards recapitalising the banks but is also paying for our budget deficit until 2014.

The ECB is also lending Irish banks €132bn so without the EU and ECB our banks collapse and we are up sh*t creek without even a boat.

Ireland has received some of the money from a fund set up by the European Union member countries, but lot of the capital was sourced by the ECB and distributed by officials who are still working today at the ECB.

ECB is a Private business lenting to their friends in Ireland, but the fact still remains, the Irish Taxpayer is not liable for one cent of private debts belonging to the Banks!!!

The ECB lend 132 bilion as a private business to other private businesses in Ireland, the ECB took the risk not the Irish citizen for that 132 billion!!... The liabilities to the ECB from Irish banks not foreign banks who set up in Ireland would be 95 billion in total not 132 billion, but the Irish government somewhow feels obligated to pay these debts belonging to the Irish banks, as there set up in this country as Irish banks, and some of the top middle and upper management in Irish banks happened to be Irish men and women, but the debt again is still "Private Debt" owned by Irish bankers to other bankers in Europe!!

Would you pay your neighbours mortgage for them would you? It is a crazy we are allowing this to happen, bankers can both win, and have losses and still win in the end!! That is a rigged game in my book.

Your buying into the fear-mongering that is out there. Ireland could borrow from China or the United states at a lower interest rate, and keep our public services running, but the expenditure cuts- tax increases will have to continue to balance the budget into the future, and we would not need to borrow as much as 90 billion at a crippling 5.8% interest rate on that.

We could restructure our banking system and our economy with a new fresh outlook with half that amount with interest rate of 1or 2% ,letting some of the main Irish banks to go to the wall, and moving all assets and loan books to one or two new restructured banks with new people at the helm looking after everything. As long as you have a country willing to help you out with funding nothing in IRELAND would fail.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 16-02-2011 04:55PM

KIERAN1 wrote: »

Ireland has received some of the money from a fund set up by the European Union member countries, but lot of the capital was sourced by the ECB and distributed by officials who are still working today at the ECB.

ECB is a Private business lenting to their friends in Ireland, but the fact still remains, the Irish Taxpayer is not liable for one cent of private debts belonging to the Banks!!!

The ECB lend 132 bilion as a private business to other private businesses in Ireland, the ECB took the risk not the Irish citizen for that 132 billion!!... The liabilities to the ECB from Irish banks not foreign banks who set up in Ireland would be 95 billion in total not 132 billion, but the Irish government somewhow feels obligated to pay these debts belonging to the Irish banks, as there set up in this country as Irish banks, and some of the top middle and upper management in Irish banks happened to be Irish men and women, but the debt again is still "Private Debt" owned by Irish bankers to other bankers in Europe!!

Would you pay your neighbours mortgage for them would you? It is a crazy we are allowing this to happen, bankers can both win, and have losses and still win in the end!! That is a rigged game in my book.

Your buying into the fear-mongering that is out there. Ireland could borrow from China or the United states at a lower interest rate, and keep our public services running, but the expenditure cuts- tax increases will have to continue to balance the budget into the future, and we would not need to borrow as much as 90 billion at a crippling 5.8% interest rate on that.

We could restructure our banking system and our economy with a new fresh outlook with half that amount with interest rate of 1or 2% ,letting some of the main Irish banks to go to the wall, and moving all assets and loan books to one or two new restructured banks with new people at the helm looking after everything. As long as you have a country willing to help you out with funding nothing in IRELAND would fail.

this doesnt answer the question where sf will get 16 billion too run services outside of 50 billion,as sf says it wants too tell imf/eu get lost,burn bondholders,and markets or countries would help then
no sense in sf policys and solutions

nialldabass · 16-02-2011 05:01PM

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

this doesnt answer the question where sf will get 16 billion too run services outside of 50 billion,as sf says it wants too tell imf/eu get lost,burn bondholders,and markets or countries would help then
no sense in sf policys and solutions

Look we WILL DEFAULT, make no bones about it its a question of how much gets squeezed out of us first, and whoever is is government

KELTICKNIGHTT · 16-02-2011 05:04PM

nialldabass wrote: »

Look we WILL DEFAULT, make no bones about it its a question of how much gets squeezed out of us first, and whoever is is government

think it doesnt matter whos in goverment ,its a long hard road ahead,5 to 10 year plan,

KIERAN1 · 16-02-2011 05:12PM

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

this doesnt answer the question where sf will get 16 billion too run services outside of 50 billion,as sf says it wants too tell imf/eu get lost,burn bondholders,and markets or countries would help then
no sense in sf policys and solutions

I'm not a Sinn Féin Supporter, but I like their default policy on banking. Well we do need to borrow for another few years, until we bring down the costs in our economy. We need to plug that gap in the deficit, but that gap can be filled in with funding from another country.

I'm not sure Sinn Fein have said. We will not be borrowing ever, but there saying we should not pay the banking debt at all. China and United states have their own self- interest beside worrying about the European union, so we might get funding from them, as it might be in their interest to get into a market close to Europe.

Euroland · 16-02-2011 05:15PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

First of all, I would like to see proof that Russia agreed to lend to Iceland. Even if they did, obviously the money Russia offered them was at a higher rate than the IMF offered. The moral of your story is we should borrow from the IMF, not Russia.

As regards to Iceland borrowing from Russia, here are a few articles on the subject:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7720614.stm

http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/07/russia-global-lender-of-last-resort-will-russia-bail-out-the-hedge-fund-of-the-north/

http://icelandweatherreport.com/2008/10/as-the-russians-come-riding-on-their-white-steed.html

Russia approves 64 billion ISK loan to Iceland

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/07/16/russia-approves-64-billion-isk-loan-to-iceland/

Euroland · 16-02-2011 05:20PM

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

what foreign banks

Come on, do you really have no clue that many foreign banks operate in Ireland? How about Ulster bank, Danske Bank, etc?

Pete_Cavan · 16-02-2011 05:24PM

KIERAN1 wrote: »

Ireland has received some of the money from a fund set up by the European Union member countries, but lot of the capital was sourced by the ECB and distributed by officials who are still working today at the ECB.

ECB is a Private business lenting to their friends in Ireland, but the fact still remains, the Irish Taxpayer is not liable for one cent of private debts belonging to the Banks!!!

The ECB lend 132 bilion as a private business to other private businesses in Ireland, the ECB took the risk not the Irish citizen for that 132 billion!!... The liabilities to the ECB from Irish banks not foreign banks who set up in Ireland would be 95 billion in total not 132 billion, but the Irish government somewhow feels obligated to pay these debts belonging to the Irish banks, as there set up in this country as Irish banks, and some of the top middle and upper management in Irish banks happened to be Irish men and women, but the debt again is still "Private Debt" owned by Irish bankers to other bankers in Europe!!

Would you pay your neighbours mortgage for them would you? It is a crazy we are allowing this to happen, bankers can both win, and have losses and still win in the end!! That is a rigged game in my book.

Your buying into the fear-mongering that is out there. Ireland could borrow from China or the United states at a lower interest rate, and keep our public services running, but the expenditure cuts- tax increases will have to continue to balance the budget into the future, and we would not need to borrow as much as 90 billion at a crippling 5.8% interest rate on that.

We could restructure our banking system and our economy with a new fresh outlook with half that amount with interest rate of 1or 2% ,letting some of the main Irish banks to go to the wall, and moving all assets and loan books to one or two new restructured banks with new people at the helm looking after everything. As long as you have a country willing to help you out with funding nothing in IRELAND would fail.

The €132bn from the ECB to the banks is nothing to do with Irish government. The banks need that money to allow people to withdraw funds, give overdrafts and general lending. Without that money there would be no money in the ATMs. And that is not scare-mongering, the banks cannot get funding anywhere else so if we default on senior bondholder debt, as the ECB dont want us to do, they will cut off funding and our banks are left with no cash.

We need a functioning banking system to allow money to circulate in the economy. Without a banking system people can not withdraw cash, paying bills through money transfers are not possible, businesses can not access working capital, employers can not pay wages. In such a situation the only money in the economy would be the cash in peoples pockets and no one would spend any of it because their is no way of getting more. The economy would grind to a halt. Thats before all our major trading partners would not accept Irish goods because we have just told them we are not going to pay back the €200bn they lent us and our banks. What you are proposing is economic suiside.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 16-02-2011 05:24PM

KIERAN1 wrote: »

I'm not a Sinn Féin Supporter, but I like their default policy on banking. Well we do need to borrow for another few years, until we bring down the costs in our economy. We need to plug that gap in the deficit, but that gap can be filled in with funding from another country.

I'm not sure Sinn Fein have said. We will not be borrowing ever, but there saying we should not pay the banking debt at all. China and United states have their own interest beside Europe, so we might get funding from them, as it might be in their interest to get into a market close to Europe.

anglo and nationwide are closing anyways,there where the big pains in ireland debts,markets went mad over 9%,that killed ireland,so then came the imf/eu deal.we all know the interest rate is high,but maybe we get a break,then we have 16 billion too run services outside the 50 billion
i asked questions too a sf person who came looking for a vote and he couldnt answer anything we asked,just did the republician thing,we said we want answers ,solutions,not talk that sound ok too some,we have familys too support,republician talk doesnt cut it and said bye too him
i dont want too hear cheap crap talk, i want answer and solutions that work and figures that add up,the days of crap talk are gone,so sf are out with with getting a no vote ,they need too cop-on ,and know what they are talking about and have policys that work with figures too back them up,at moment they dont,gerry adams shouldnt be running as leader heres he doesnt have a clue ,too satate in tv he didnt know the vat rate in ireland
o my god,thank god some of us are not blinded by sf cheap talk
time for tea

KIERAN1 · 16-02-2011 05:28PM

Daily Mail Dec 2010...Portugal's credit rating downgraded by Fitch

Pledge: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao offered to buy Greek bonds in October and the country has also agreed to buy out Portuguese debt

China has said it is willing to bail out debt-ridden countries in the euro zone using its $2.7trillion overseas investment fund.

In a fresh humiliation for Europe, Foreign Ministry spokesman Jiang Yu said it was one of the most important areas for China's foreign exchange investments.

The country has already approached struggling European countries with financial aid, including offering to buy Greece's debt in October and promising to buy $4billion of Portuguese government debt.

Today Portugal had its credit rating downgraded by the Fitch Ratings agency amid mounting concerns over the country's ability to raise money in the markets to finance its hefty borrowings.

Fitch said it was reducing its rating on the country's debt by one notch to A+ from AA- and warned that further downgrades may be in the offing by maintaining its negative outlook.

'To have any discernible effect China will have to buy a lot more than 5billion euros if they expect to have any impact on the negative sentiment surrounding Europe,' said Michael Hewson, currency analyst at CMC Markets.

China's astonishing economic growth has put it on track to overtake America as the world's economic powerhouse within two years, a recent report claimed.

But experts believed still be some years before America's leadership role is really challenged - largely because Beijing has given no indication it is ready to take on the responsibility of shepherding the world' economy.

KELTICKNIGHTT · 16-02-2011 05:29PM

Euroland wrote: »

Come on, do you really have no clue that many foreign banks operate in Ireland? How about Ulster bank, Danske Bank, etc?

how are these banks too do with irish banks ,nothing
the problems is with irish banks

Euroland · 16-02-2011 05:31PM

bastados wrote: »

Nope they are not a real party IMO

:eek: And which are the “real” parties? Those which already brought Ireland to its knees? FF, FG, and Labour, all support transfer of private bank debt to the public and want to bailout the fraudulent private banks with taxpayer's money (our money, mine, yours, etc). Are these crooks (parties) real?

Euroland · 16-02-2011 05:37PM

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

how are these banks too do with irish banks ,nothing
the problems is with irish banks

Come on, learn to read the news. The article was saying the up to BEUR 132 was borrowed from ECB by banks operating in Ireland. However it also said that only 66% of the amount was borrowed by the domestic ones. The rest was borrowed by the foreign-owned banks. These foreign banks all have established entities here. The entities also borrow as they also need money to support their operations in Ireland, i.e. giving mortgages, loans, support current accounts, etc.

KIERAN1 · 16-02-2011 05:46PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The €132bn from the ECB to the banks is nothing to do with Irish government. The banks need that money to allow people to withdraw funds, give overdrafts and general lending. Without that money there would be no money in the ATMs. And that is not scare-mongering, the banks cannot get funding anywhere else so if we default on senior bondholder debt, as the ECB dont want us to do, they will cut off funding and our banks are left with no cash.

We need a functioning banking system to allow money to circulate in the economy. Without a banking system people can not withdraw cash, paying bills through money transfers are not possible, businesses can not access working capital, employers can not pay wages. In such a situation the only money in the economy would be the cash in peoples pockets and no one would spend any of it because their is no way of getting more. The economy would grind to a halt. Thats before all our major trading partners would not accept Irish goods because we have just told them we are not going to pay back the €200bn they lent us and our banks. What you are proposing is economic suiside.

The Irish banking sector does not need to be dependent on one source for large scale funding, like all you need is a "Contributor" to keep Irish banks running smoothly, and we are in this situation "Today" because Irish banks have failed the Irish people their broke, so other options should be looked upon kindly, or do we keep continuing doing the same thing as before,maybe you want that, but that is not going to get us out of this economic mess that we are all in. For you to say we can't get funding from another source does not back up with the fact CHINA has already offered funding to countries in Europe.

KIERAN1 · 16-02-2011 05:51PM

Euroland wrote: »

Come on, learn to read the news. The article was saying the up to BEUR 132 was borrowed from ECB by banks operating in Ireland. However it also said that only 66% of the amount was borrowed by the domestic ones. The rest was borrowed by the foreign-owned banks. These foreign banks all have established entities here. The entities also borrow as they also need money to support their operations in Ireland, i.e. giving mortgages, loans, support current accounts, etc.

Your correct 37 billion out of the 132 billion was owned by Foreign banks in Ireland..

Euroland · 16-02-2011 06:03PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The €132bn from the ECB to the banks is nothing to do with Irish government. The banks need that money to allow people to withdraw funds, give overdrafts and general lending. Without that money there would be no money in the ATMs. And that is not scare-mongering, the banks cannot get funding anywhere else so if we default on senior bondholder debt, as the ECB dont want us to do, they will cut off funding and our banks are left with no cash.

We need a functioning banking system to allow money to circulate in the economy. Without a banking system people can not withdraw cash, paying bills through money transfers are not possible, businesses can not access working capital, employers can not pay wages. In such a situation the only money in the economy would be the cash in peoples pockets and no one would spend any of it because their is no way of getting more. The economy would grind to a halt. Thats before all our major trading partners would not accept Irish goods because we have just told them we are not going to pay back the €200bn they lent us and our banks. What you are proposing is economic suiside.

First of all correct the amount, as the BEUR 132 figure also includes the foreign banks.

Second, we do have some money (billions of Euro) left in our financial system.

Third we can easily borrow the shortage elsewhere, including from IMF or China, Russia, etc.

Fourth, look at Iceland, Argentina or Russia now, they all doing well, despite the previous scare-mongering forecasts. So would do Ireland if it defaults or restructures its bank debt. However, if we don’t (default) and don’t restructure the debt, for the next 20 or 30 years we (Irish nation) would be struggling to survive, trying to repay that private bank debt, living in misery.

ironbluedun · 16-02-2011 06:04PM

no chance....i dont like famines.

Euroland · 16-02-2011 06:09PM

nialldabass wrote: »

Look we WILL DEFAULT, make no bones about it its a question of how much gets squeezed out of us first, and whoever is is government

NCB agrees saying if we don’t restructure (or default on) our bank debt, then within 2-2.5 years we would face default on our sovereign debt. Lucey and McWilliams say the same.

The future for Irish bank senior bonds

http://www.ncbresearch.com/fixed_income/SeniorBondIssue.pdf

bergkamp10 · 16-02-2011 06:46PM

Euroland wrote: »

Come on, learn to read the news. The article was saying the up to BEUR 132 was borrowed from ECB by banks operating in Ireland. However it also said that only 66% of the amount was borrowed by the domestic ones. The rest was borrowed by the foreign-owned banks. These foreign banks all have established entities here. The entities also borrow as they also need money to support their operations in Ireland, i.e. giving mortgages, loans, support current accounts, etc.

spot on!! Ps, some people in here are allergic to statistics, reading, etc. They dont seem to go after the posts if they haven't got the required info or if there isn't a rebuttal, so they may go after the poster. And you may want to s.p.e.a.k. S.l.o.w.l.y. for them, bless. May i on your behalf point out to the easily bewildered (ahhh bless) that you were talking about Ulster Bank (owned by Lloyds Halifax Bank of Scotland) and National Irish (owned by Danske). Regards b10

phantom_lord · 16-02-2011 07:06PM

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

i couldnt have said it any better,for some weird reason the supporters seem too think sf be better because there republician,bull full stop,the other night in debate,gormley said lets all partys pull together for few years if all are serious about helping ireland,none did including gerry adams,that about sums it up in irish politics overall,sf is all about power and there agenda,always have and always will,there policys a 15 year must have drawn up ,there more holes in than a strainer for straining rice or pasta,them any of there sf party talk,its same from same sheet of paper
people who are angry will vote for them and people who know no better,thsis republican bull they put out is 40 years old and doesnt help ireland now,i dont trust sf and never will,they have too many things they won town up too and most importantly ,there policy's ,they dont have any,they can even answer questions,

I just find the whole thing bizarre; the supporters in the thread can't defend them and must be aware of the weakness in their position, and yet are still going to go out and vote for them.

Qs · 16-02-2011 07:14PM

phantom_lord wrote: »

I just find the whole thing bizarre; the supporters in the thread can't defend them and must be aware of the weakness in their position, and yet are still going to go out and vote for them.

So tell us then, who are the perfect party? The party that can't be criticised in some way?

phantom_lord · 16-02-2011 07:24PM

Did I suggest such a thing existed?

mccoist · 16-02-2011 07:28PM

I love being a shinner
I feel so proud
Cant wait until election day when i go and vote for my local shinner Shamy Morris in NTH TIPP
At least i do not have the thought of voting in a usless lie down bunch of timewasters we have had for years now

nialldabass · 16-02-2011 07:32PM

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

think it doesnt matter whos in goverment ,its a long hard road ahead,5 to 10 year plan,

Yes but whoever it is will be defaulting, so if they say different they are not being honest. Non of them go far enough as far as I'm concerned but the closest I can find is SF, and it galls me to say that, for many reasons

anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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